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Post by Hulkamaniac on Jan 4, 2012 12:29:22 GMT -5
Let's be honest here. None of the Republican candidates can beat Obama. None of them. Obama has not ed up enough that people are going to kick him out of office. He hasn't done anything impressive, but he hasn't ed up terribly either. Republicans are going to have a hard time convincing people that Obama needs to go.
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Post by Kliquid on Jan 4, 2012 12:46:56 GMT -5
Let's be honest here. None of the Republican candidates can beat Obama. None of them. Obama has not ed up enough that people are going to kick him out of office. He hasn't done anything impressive, but he hasn't ed up terribly either. Republicans are going to have a hard time convincing people that Obama needs to go. I've said this since day one... If Ron Paul wins the nomination, I believe he will beat Obama. - Paul polls better with both the African American, young and independent voters than any Republican. In fact, I believe he's even ahead of Obama in a couple of those kind of categories... The major base categories that helped push Obama over in 2008.
- His supporters are even more loyal (and some would say crazy) than Obama's were in 2008.
- He has a much stronger reputation than any of the Republican candidates. Even through this "Ron Paul is a racist" nonsense, his numbers have continued to go up throughout the country.
Again, this all hinges on him winning the nomination which, as I've said many times, is unlikely. But the bottom line is that Democrats flat-out out-number Republicans right now. Not by a massive margin, but even an upper single digit margin would be a death sentence for any establishment Republican candidate. This means Romney, Santorum, Gingrich, Huntsman, Perry, whoever. The only way the Republicans have a chance of winning the election is if they nominate someone who can actually take votes from Barack Obama. Someone who can stand on his principles and voting record while bashing Obama for concepts like Obamacare, endless wars, the Patriot Act, taxes, etc. Mitt Romney is not that candidate. He has absolutely zero credibility when it comes to any of those topics. He has already been roasted for basically CREATING Obamacare, he doesn't have a real plan to end the wars, etc. No one is going to switch from supporting Obama to supporting Romney. Or Santorum. Or any of them. The ONLY person who can pull supporters from Obama is Ron Paul. He's the only one. Period. There's no debate to be had about that. Whether the Republican party itself will get behind him is the real question. But we've seen the Republican party get behind some pretty mediocre candidates in the past. At the end of the day, the vast majority of people are on the "anyone but Obama" train. That's just the cold, hard truth of the matter. To that point, I believe that MOST of them would support Dr. Paul. This is why Paul's numbers vs. Obama continue to be as good or better than any other candidate's. Is he still behind? Yes. But if he got the nomination, would those numbers DROP? No. The only place they could possibly go is up... And he's pretty close already. The biggest problem with Ron Paul's campaign all along is that it has been so completely screwed over by the media that it's almost impossible for him to get past these blatantly ridiculous assertions that he's a racist, a homophobe, a maniac who "wants Israel to have a nuke," etc. THAT is what the media focuses on right now as they try to push for Romney (or the anti-Romney candidate which is apparently currently Santorum). Hypothetically speaking, if Ron Paul got the nomination, the media would then have to choose between him and Barack Obama. Sure, there would still be these insane comments about him, but that would be no different than the ones Obama got about him being a "Muslim." A head-to-head between Obama and Paul would do wonders for Dr. Paul's numbers because, quite frankly, there are still a LOT of people who don't know much at all about him. But as we've seen in the past, when people hear the message, they come running. In short, yes, I agree with you Hulk... It's unlikely that a Republican is going to be President in 2012. But if someone is, it will be Ron Paul.
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Post by Kliquid on Jan 4, 2012 13:14:31 GMT -5
This article was written on Dec. 28 and also helps to explain a bit about what I was talking about in terms of how a caucus works and why the straw poll doesn't mean shit. Again, I'd be saying this even if Ron Paul "won" the straw poll. If he doesn't get the delegates, it's useless. Mike Huckabee Won Iowa in 2008, Failed to Receive a Single Delegate in the EndAs you're being inundated with wall-to-wall coverage of the Iowa caucuses this week, keep the following number in mind: zero. The quest for the GOP's presidential nomination is ultimately a race for delegates. With 2,286 delegates attending the party's national convention in Tampa at the end of August, the backing of slightly over half of that group -- 1,144 -- will be needed for Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich, or someone else to capture the prize. Guess how many of these delegates will be selected in Iowa on January 3. Zero. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Iowa matters for one reason only: the media says so. It's been deemed the first "real" contest on the presidential nominating calendar, and for some reason "first" warrants wall-to-wall coverage. The winner -- or perceived winner -- is almost certain to get a campaign cash boost and ride a tidal wave of media-fueled momentum. "Big Mo," as George H.W. Bush once famously called it, can be a game changer. Want to know what really happens in Iowa in January? Not much. A few thousand people who care enough about politics to spend an evening at their local library or church basement will decide who gets to attend the state GOP's county conventions in March. They'll also participate in a non-binding presidential preference vote. ("Non-binding" means the state's national convention delegates do not have to vote according to the preferences of caucus participants.) And that's about it. In March, the county convention delegates will decide who attends a bunch of congressional district meetings and a statewide convention in late April and June. That's when most of Iowa's 28 national convention delegates — a bit over 1% of the total number of delegates in Tampa — will actually be chosen. If there's already a likely nominee by that point, you can bet Iowa won't rock the boat. Remember Mike Huckabee's big win in the 2008 Iowa GOP caucuses? The party's eventual nominee, John McCain, won all of Iowa's delegate votes at the national convention. The history of the Iowa caucuses is actually a case study in the power of the media to shape -- or warp, depending on your point of view -- the nomination contest. More…
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Post by slappy on Jan 4, 2012 13:45:52 GMT -5
From Lew Rockwell's site
"One of the commentators - a former Democratic pollster - suggested that one of the reasons for this relative peace between Mitt Romney and Ron Paul is the fact that in a brokered convention Ron Paul’s delegates might be a crucial asset for Romney that he might try to get by offering to take Rand Paul on his ticket."
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Jan 4, 2012 14:09:38 GMT -5
Paul is a complete unknown to the vast majority of voters. There is no way a poll claiming that Paul would beat Obama is even close to being accurate. The Obama camp hopes that Paul gets nominated. If he does, they win in a cake walk. No one knows Paul on the national stage. The average voter has never heard of him. They can easily smear him and tar and feather him however they please. No one knows his track record and his party does not and will not support them because he doesn't play ball. If Paul were nominated he would split the party. The libertarian wing would go with him and the moderate/conservative wing would go with some 3rd party candidate like Romney. The split would all but guarantee Obama victory.
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Post by Kliquid on Jan 4, 2012 14:45:37 GMT -5
From Lew Rockwell's site "One of the commentators - a former Democratic pollster - suggested that one of the reasons for this relative peace between Mitt Romney and Ron Paul is the fact that in a brokered convention Ron Paul’s delegates might be a crucial asset for Romney that he might try to get by offering to take Rand Paul on his ticket." that. I would not support Rand Paul if he ran as Mitt Romney's VP. Absolutely not.
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Post by Kliquid on Jan 4, 2012 15:01:05 GMT -5
Paul is a complete unknown to the vast majority of voters. There is no way a poll claiming that Paul would beat Obama is even close to being accurate. Oh. I guess every poll is wrong because you say it is? Explain to me how it's inaccurate. I fail to understand what you're saying. If they don't know who he is, then why would he get a higher percentage of votes than everyone other than Romney vs. Obama (he's pretty much dead on with Romney)? The great thing is that if you're right about him being a relative unknown is a GOOD thing. That means he has the biggest space to grow, particularly with independents and Democrats. The Obama camp hopes that Paul gets nominated. Interesting theory backed up with how the liberal media has been completely favorable to Ron Paul, backing him any time they can against the other Republican candidates. Oh wait. If he does, they win in a cake walk. Not according to actual data. No one knows Paul on the national stage. The average voter has never heard of him. No one knew who Barack Obama was in 2008 either. Then he "energized the nation." Ron Paul is the "Barack Obama" for people that actually have some semblance of a clue of what the is going on. He has an amazing track record and a much more dedicated base of supporters than any other candidate. Hell, he even stuck around in 2008 until the bitter end while all of the other candidates had dropped out... And his support was only a fraction then of what it is now. They can easily smear him and tar and feather him however they please. No one knows his track record and his party does not and will not support them because he doesn't play ball. His party would have to support him if he got the nomination. They wouldn't have another option. If Paul were nominated he would split the party. Maybe over time it would, but not in one election cycle. People said the same thing about the Tea Party candidates. Then the Tea Party kicked ass in the elections. The libertarian wing would go with him and the moderate/conservative wing would go with some 3rd party candidate like Romney. Shouldn't it be obvious now that Romney is not the candidate who can unite the Republican party anyway? He ran the exact same in '08 as he did in '12, his numbers have remained relatively the same while three or four other candidates have risen above him and then fallen... He is the front-runner, but only based on the fact that the other establishment candidates (everyone remaining except Ron Paul) are all a joke. Still people vote for the "anti-Romney" candidate, in this case Santorum -- previously Gingrich -- previously Cain -- previously Perry -- previously Bachmann. Romney is probably going to win the nomination as I said from the beginning, but that is a GUARANTEE that the Republicans get trounced in an actual election. If Ron Paul even has 10% of the population supporting him -- which is a conservative number -- Romney has zero chance of winning a general election. He has a smaller base to begin with from the Republican party, he can't swing many independents, no Democrats are going to vote for him AND he'd be dropping 10% of the already inferior Republican base who would not vote for him and would instead write-in Ron Paul, vote for Gary Johnson as a Libertarian, vote for Obama or not vote at all. I don't know a single Ron Paul supporter who is going to vote for any other Republican. Not one. And I know a lot of Ron Paul supporters. You can sit around and act like Ron Paul has "no chance" in a general election, but the truth is that if he WAS to win the nomination, the VAST MAJORITY of Republican voters would vote for him simply because he's "not Obama." Sure, there would be pissed off hillbilly retards that would refuse to support him because he "WANTS IRAN TO GET A NEWWWK!," but MOST people do not vote based on the issues anyway. They vote based on "R" or "D." For those who are independent or on the fence, however, Ron Paul is the only person who can realistically steal votes from Obama. Can you at least concede THAT?
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Jan 4, 2012 15:25:05 GMT -5
Paul is basically a "none of the above" voting choice.
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Post by Kliquid on Jan 4, 2012 15:39:19 GMT -5
Paul is basically a "none of the above" voting choice. To some people, yes. And to some people, that's all they're really looking for.
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Post by chillax on Jan 4, 2012 18:30:37 GMT -5
Paul is basically a "none of the above" voting choice. To some people, yes. And to some people, that's all they're really looking for. I voted for Ralph Nader because I don't like the two-party system back and forth crap. But Ron Paul is so out there (and I don't think the government should be almost non-existent) that I couldn't vote for him.
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Post by Kliquid on Jan 4, 2012 18:34:33 GMT -5
I voted for Ralph Nader because I don't like the two-party system back and forth crap. But Ron Paul is so out there (and I don't think the government should be almost non-existent) that I couldn't vote for him. You're absolutely entitled to that opinion.
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Post by extreme on Jan 4, 2012 18:51:18 GMT -5
CNN are now giving Ron Paul a hard time about a tweet that went out under his campaign's twitter account about Jon Huntsmen. Stupid.
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Post by Kliquid on Jan 4, 2012 18:52:45 GMT -5
CNN are now giving Ron Paul a hard time about a tweet that went out under his campaign's twitter account about Jon Huntsmen. Stupid. I didn't understand that, honestly. I saw the tweet and laughed, but it makes no sense for someone from the Paul campaign to make fun of Huntsman for not doing well.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Jan 4, 2012 19:11:25 GMT -5
Huntsman didn't do well because he didn't campaign in Iowa. Everyone knows this. Paul looks like he its dumb and has no class. Not saying that's the case, but that is the image projected by stuff like that.
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Post by Kliquid on Jan 4, 2012 19:11:50 GMT -5
Huntsman didn't do well because he didn't campaign in Iowa. Everyone knows this. Paul looks like he its dumb and has no class. Not saying that's the case, but that is the image projected by stuff like that. Agreed.
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Post by slappy on Jan 4, 2012 20:00:08 GMT -5
That was a Paul campaign twitter not run by Paul. Paul's personal twitter is @repronpaul. The account that sent the tweet was @ronpaul.
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Deleted
Joined on: Nov 17, 2024 1:22:14 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2012 21:00:40 GMT -5
Not DIRECTLY on topic but has anyone else seen how sickening this is?
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Jan 4, 2012 22:25:33 GMT -5
That was a Paul campaign twitter not run by Paul. Paul's personal twitter is @repronpaul. The account that sent the tweet was @ronpaul. Doesn't matter. It's like saying you can't hold Obama responsible for stuff the White House press office puts out.
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Post by slappy on Jan 4, 2012 22:45:21 GMT -5
That was a Paul campaign twitter not run by Paul. Paul's personal twitter is @repronpaul. The account that sent the tweet was @ronpaul. Doesn't matter. It's like saying you can't hold Obama responsible for stuff the White House press office puts out. It's like blaming Obama for something his tumblr puts out.
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eljefe
Superstar
Joined on: Oct 2, 2010 17:39:35 GMT -5
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Post by eljefe on Jan 4, 2012 22:57:26 GMT -5
Not DIRECTLY on topic but has anyone else seen how sickening this is? It's like someone hit the pause button as soon as they heard Iran.
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