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Post by Kliquid on Feb 8, 2012 17:10:27 GMT -5
Well Hulk, that's not how caucuses work.
So you can be ass-hurt about it all you want, but I'm just going off of the fact, bud.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Feb 8, 2012 17:45:16 GMT -5
So you don't see Paul's strategy as one of desperation? He's basically conceding that he can't get enough popular votes to win a primary. How does that not indicate to you that his message isn't resonating?
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Post by Kliquid on Feb 8, 2012 17:52:33 GMT -5
It's all about building momentum for this campaign. Ron Paul isn't a traditional Republican candidate in any way. Republicans aren't just going to change their opinions overnight. It takes time. He's getting MULTIPLE TIMES as many votes in every state than what he got in '08. The message is growing. It has continued to grow. Ron Paul's support doesn't drop off. In fact, the most recent national poll has him in second place among the country as a whole. www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/07/us-usa-campaign-poll-idUSTRE81514720120207And that's not some fly-by-night news website. It's Reuters. I don't know what you're looking for me to admit. That people don't like liberty? They don't LIKE his message? I'm sorry, but I don't believe that to be the case at all. Are there people who don't like it? Sure. But I think that the vast majority of people who actually KNOW Ron Paul's message, like it. The problem is that the media has spun things so uncontrollably against him that he continually has to try to dig himself out of the grave they prematurely put him in.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Feb 8, 2012 18:36:25 GMT -5
Question. If he's second in the country as a whole, why is he not coming close to winning a primary?
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Deleted
Joined on: Oct 5, 2024 21:32:11 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2012 18:41:37 GMT -5
Missouri's thing tonight doesn't even matter. I don't understand why it's being reported. They have an entire other thing that DOES matter. It's weird. LoL... Complete waste of money. I don't know why my state doesn't just run a primary or a caucus, not both.
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Post by Kliquid on Feb 8, 2012 19:07:18 GMT -5
Question. If he's second in the country as a whole, why is he not coming close to winning a primary? Certain people are strong in certain states. Paul runs about the same everywhere, which isn't good enough to win any primaries or straw polls yet, but good enough not to be smashed anywhere, either... Well, I guess he got smashed in Florida, but he really did not campaign there at all, so it's kind of similar to how Santorum did poorly in Nevada -- just didn't spend much resources there. Paul pretty much polls between 15-25% everywhere, which is good enough to be second or third pretty much everywhere, but not enough to win anywhere yet. He's not really going to pull far ahead of that 25% unless he can, as you said, win some states. He did get 27% in Minnesota, but we might be his strongest state overall. We'll see what happens in Maine. Either way, though, your point that he can't win unless he wins some states (primary states) outright is absolutely correct. I don't think I've ever denied that. All I've said is that - so far - he's doing better than what ANY of the news sources are reporting. He doesn't have 8 delegates or whatever number they're giving to him. He WILL get delegates in Iowa, he WILL get delegates in Minnesota. In fact, as I've said before, I believe he will end up with the most delegates in each of those states... Hell, he'll probably even get some of the delegates in Colorado and Nevada. That said, I'm hearing good things from Maine. I have to admit that I don't really understand their process, but I'll do some research into it and try to explain it in layman terms soon. All I know is that, supposedly, Dr. Paul is doing very well there. Here is the link to a story about it from today: www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/08/maine-caucus-2012-mitt-romney-ron-paul_n_1263961.htmlIf I had to take a guess right now, and this is COMPLETE speculation, I'd say Ron Paul's delegate count numbers are closer to 39 than the "8" (or thereabouts) that the media has been reporting. Iowa: 10 New Hampshire: 3 South Carolina: 0 Florida: 0 Nevada: 7 Colorado: 4 Minnesota: 15
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Post by Kliquid on Feb 8, 2012 22:39:46 GMT -5
“[Libertarians] have this idea that people should be left alone, be able to do whatever they want to do. Government should keep our taxes down and keep our regulation low and that we shouldn’t get involved in the bedroom, we shouldn’t get involved in cultural issues, you know, people should do whatever they want. Well, that is not how traditional conservatives view the world, and I think most conservatives understand that individuals can’t go it alone.”
- Rick Santorum
-----------------
WAKE UP, AMERICA!!!
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Post by Halloween King on Feb 8, 2012 23:20:26 GMT -5
The thing is, Kliquid has been very realistic about Ron Paul this whole time. He has stated several times that he doesn't expect him to win, and doesn't believe he will. But you guys seem to think he should stop supporting his candidate while he is still in the race. Slim as the chances are, he hasn't dropped out yet. Why should he abandon his support for him just because he isn't winning, or may not win. What is he supposed to do? Do you want him to start supporting Romney now, because he looks like a better chance to win? EVERYONE in America should support the candidate that best represents their ideals. For some it's Romney, other's it's Santorum, Paul, or Obama or someone else. Supporting someone else just because they have a better chance to win is silly, detreimental to yourself, and a major reason why politics in America is so ed up. As long as he believes in Ron paul, and he is still in the race, then he should continue to support him. There is nothing wrong with that. The attitude that everyone should pick the winning team is sickening. YES! If you support a loosing candidate you only weaken the party. When a political party is divided amongst itself the opposing party seems much stronger. I hate Obama, but all this division between Romney/Santorum and to a lesser extent Newt makes Obama seem not as bad. Ron is so far behind I dont really ever hear anything about him on the news. So why hasnt he dropped out? IMO he hasnt dropped out of the race cause he's a nut job.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Feb 9, 2012 0:00:47 GMT -5
The thing is, Kliquid has been very realistic about Ron Paul this whole time. He has stated several times that he doesn't expect him to win, and doesn't believe he will. But you guys seem to think he should stop supporting his candidate while he is still in the race. Slim as the chances are, he hasn't dropped out yet. Why should he abandon his support for him just because he isn't winning, or may not win. What is he supposed to do? Do you want him to start supporting Romney now, because he looks like a better chance to win? EVERYONE in America should support the candidate that best represents their ideals. For some it's Romney, other's it's Santorum, Paul, or Obama or someone else. Supporting someone else just because they have a better chance to win is silly, detreimental to yourself, and a major reason why politics in America is so ed up. As long as he believes in Ron paul, and he is still in the race, then he should continue to support him. There is nothing wrong with that. The attitude that everyone should pick the winning team is sickening. YES! If you support a loosing candidate you only weaken the party. When a political party is divided amongst itself the opposing party seems much stronger. I hate Obama, but all this division between Romney/Santorum and to a lesser extent Newt makes Obama seem not as bad. Ron is so far behind I dont really ever hear anything about him on the news. So why hasnt he dropped out? IMO he hasnt dropped out of the race cause he's a nut job. Disagree. People should support the candidate they like and feel is the best. Problem with Paul is he's not the be and end all that his fanboys make him out to be. He's a hypocrite for one and he's got serious flaws.
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Post by Kliquid on Feb 9, 2012 0:09:10 GMT -5
YES! If you support a loosing candidate you only weaken the party. When a political party is divided amongst itself the opposing party seems much stronger. I hate Obama, but all this division between Romney/Santorum and to a lesser extent Newt makes Obama seem not as bad. Ron is so far behind I dont really ever hear anything about him on the news. So why hasnt he dropped out? IMO he hasnt dropped out of the race cause he's a nut job. Voting for the lesser of two evils is exactly why our political system is so ed. Especially when Romney supports many of the same things that make Obama a maniac. Then again, I always have to catch myself when I'm talking to you because FACTS have no business getting in the way of your moronic, baseless opinions. Disagree. People should support the candidate they like and feel is the best. Problem with Paul is he's not the be and end all that his fanboys make him out to be. He's a hypocrite for one and he's got serious flaws. See this is a debate I'm willing to get into. How is he a hypocrite?
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Post by Kliquid on Feb 9, 2012 0:42:42 GMT -5
Dr. Paul speaking realistically about needing to win states despite doing well in delegates so far.
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Post by slappy on Feb 9, 2012 1:24:33 GMT -5
Ron Paul really won the caucuses. www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2012/02/08/ron_paul_secretly_won_the_caucuses.html?fb_ref=sm_fb_like_blogpost&fb_source=home_multiline- In one precinct in Larimer County, the straw poll vote was 23 for Santorum, 13 for Paul, 5 for Romney, 2 for Gingrich. There were 13 delegate slots, and Ron Paul got ALL 13. - In a precinct in Delta County the vote was 22 for Santorum, 12 for Romney, 8 for Paul, 7 for Gingrich. There were 5 delegate slots, and ALL 5 went to Ron Paul. - In a Pueblo County precinct, the vote was 16 for Santorum, 11 for Romney, 3 for Gingrich and 2 for Paul. There were 2 delegate slots filled, and both were filled by Ron Paul supporters.
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Post by Kliquid on Feb 9, 2012 1:35:57 GMT -5
In fairness, those are just samples of very organized areas. There are definitely precincts where Ron Paul didn't win a single delegate. However, I think the point is that Ron Paul's supporters (like myself) are and will continue to be vastly more prepared at caucuses. You don't have to win a straw poll in order to dominate the caucus. My senate district's straw poll numbers are now in, officially...sd57gop.org/Ron Paul 237 votes Rick Santorum 209 votes Mitt Romney 105 votes Newt Gingrich 61 votes ... And we're estimating that around 70-75% of the delegates will be going to Dr. Paul. My hard work throughout the district seems to have paid off huge.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Feb 9, 2012 9:13:21 GMT -5
How is Paul a hypocrite? For one thing he claims to be a Republican when he's not and he knows he's not. He is claiming to be a Republican in order to get votes and for no other reason.
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Post by Cammi Oh on Feb 9, 2012 9:18:58 GMT -5
I am not a Republican but I would consider voting for Paul.
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Post by Halloween King on Feb 9, 2012 10:08:19 GMT -5
YES! If you support a loosing candidate you only weaken the party. When a political party is divided amongst itself the opposing party seems much stronger. I hate Obama, but all this division between Romney/Santorum and to a lesser extent Newt makes Obama seem not as bad. Ron is so far behind I dont really ever hear anything about him on the news. So why hasnt he dropped out? IMO he hasnt dropped out of the race cause he's a nut job. Voting for the lesser of two evils is exactly why our political system is so ed. Especially when Romney supports many of the same things that make Obama a maniac. Then again, I always have to catch myself when I'm talking to you because FACTS have no business getting in the way of your moronic, baseless opinions. Disagree. People should support the candidate they like and feel is the best. Problem with Paul is he's not the be and end all that his fanboys make him out to be. He's a hypocrite for one and he's got serious flaws. See this is a debate I'm willing to get into. How is he a hypocrite? This is why it is so painful to deal with you. Right away you turn to name calling. It's like talking to a child. All you need to do now is cover your ears and start to say.... im not listening to you, im not listening to you. You can call my posts moronic all you want. To me you are the moron for supporting that nut job Ron Paul.
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Post by Tim of thee on Feb 9, 2012 12:13:07 GMT -5
How is Paul a hypocrite? For one thing he claims to be a Republican when he's not and he knows he's not. He is claiming to be a Republican in order to get votes and for no other reason. you see, that how I see the other three candidates in the race.. they claim to be conservatives but they really aren't
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Post by Kliquid on Feb 9, 2012 12:55:33 GMT -5
How is Paul a hypocrite? For one thing he claims to be a Republican when he's not and he knows he's not. He is claiming to be a Republican in order to get votes and for no other reason. I'd like to challenge that idea. Let's take a look at the GOP's official website. This is part of the caucus process, actually, as everyone who joins in needs to be in general agreement with these principles. What we believeWe're fortunate to live in AmericaThe Republican Party believes that the United States has been blessed with a unique set of individual rights and freedoms available to all. You can be what you are, and become what you are capable of becomingThe Republican Party is inspired by the power and ingenuity of the individual to succeed through hard work, family support and self-discipline. Helping those around you is worthwhileThe Republican Party believes in the value of voluntary giving and community support over taxation and forced redistribution. Small government is a better government for the peopleThe Republican Party, like our nation's founders, believes that government must be limited so that it never becomes powerful enough to infringe on the rights of individuals. You know what to do with your money better than governmentThe Republican Party supports low taxes because individuals know best how to make their own economic and charitable choices. Free markets keep people freeThe Republican Party is supportive of logical business regulations that encourage entrepreneurs to start more businesses so more individuals can enjoy the satisfaction and fruits of self-made success. Our Armed Forces defend and protect our democracyThe Republican Party is committed to preserving our national strength while working to extend peace, freedom and human rights throughout the world. ----------------- Now which one of those does Dr. Paul not agree with? The only thing that could even be argued is the last one about National Defense. And even then, I would argue that Dr. Paul's foreign policy best defends OUR democracy. Getting involved in foreign affairs is something that we might need to do if our democracy is threatened, but it's not right now and hasn't been for quite some time. Now compare those principles stated above to the other three candidates. All three of them believe in massive taxation to redistribute wealth to poor people. All three of them have made statements and/or voted to increase the size of government. All three of them are still talking about increasing the amount of money that the government spends (any budgets they talk about and fiscal responsibility stems from presumed budget increases in the first place -- they're not cutting a dime in reality). All three of them have encouraged the government to INTERVENE in the free market. ----------------- So let me ask you again, who, exactly, is the real Republican in this race? Because according to the party's official platform, one guy stands head and shoulders above the rest... And he's the guy you're trying to call out right now.
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Post by Kliquid on Feb 9, 2012 13:01:28 GMT -5
This is why it is so painful to deal with you. Right away you turn to name calling. It's like talking to a child. All you need to do now is cover your ears and start to say.... im not listening to you, im not listening to you. You can call my posts moronic all you want. To me you are the moron for supporting that nut job Ron Paul. I don't call Hulk a moron. Why? Because he actually has points. He actually discusses things. You have zero talking points. You just spew bullcrap that you have ADMITTED TO having no idea about. Hulk and I disagree on many issues. TRW and I disagree on many issues. Hell, Slappy and I disagree on many issues (despite us both being in favor of Ron Paul). But all of them - and many others here - actually have an idea of what they're talking about. We might all disagree on the issues, but I think it's pretty much unanimously agreed upon here that you are completely clueless about just about everything you try to talk about. I am not a Republican but I would consider voting for Paul. You're not alone, my friend. This is why Ron Paul, in my opinion, is the only person from the Republican side who could actually beat Barack Obama.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Feb 9, 2012 14:23:46 GMT -5
How is Paul a hypocrite? For one thing he claims to be a Republican when he's not and he knows he's not. He is claiming to be a Republican in order to get votes and for no other reason. you see, that how I see the other three candidates in the race.. they claim to be conservatives but they really aren't I don't necessarily disagree with that. Paul fanboys seem to argue that he's the only true and honest politician out there who has only the people's best interests at heart. Not true.
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