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Post by Mole on Feb 19, 2012 19:25:01 GMT -5
Raising the servers to minimum wage is stupid for the customer to be advocating. The price of the meal would be jacked up more than it would be with the tip system in place. For example, RI's minimum wage is $7.40 an hour, but for a server its $2.80 an hour. You'd be asking the restaurant to increase their wait staff budget by almost 3 times. The restaurant would have to raise their food/drink prices and adjust the price up from their in order to account for profit margin. The price of food would go through the roof. Not only that, but if you have crapty service, you'd still have to pay a jacked up rate. If we are asking restaurants, especially smaller mom and pop places, to increase a facet of their business' costs by 3 times, they are not going to last long, or going to have to jack up prices to consumers. There is a reason the tipping system was put into place. /end of boring economics rant Except if most people are paying tips to begin with, how does the consumer-side cost differ? I mean, if the cost of my dinner goes up by 2-5 bucks (the price per hour difference), the consumer wouldn't notice the different if they pay a tip and the restaurants would actually make more money if the price change in one person's meal accounted for the wage difference. Hell, if they wanted to keep costs low for their customers, they wouldn't even need to raise prices that much assuming they do a reasonable amount of business.
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jakksking1
Main Eventer
Joined on: Feb 2, 2011 14:45:41 GMT -5
Posts: 2,843
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Post by jakksking1 on Feb 19, 2012 21:34:48 GMT -5
Raising the servers to minimum wage is stupid for the customer to be advocating. The price of the meal would be jacked up more than it would be with the tip system in place. For example, RI's minimum wage is $7.40 an hour, but for a server its $2.80 an hour. You'd be asking the restaurant to increase their wait staff budget by almost 3 times. The restaurant would have to raise their food/drink prices and adjust the price up from their in order to account for profit margin. The price of food would go through the roof. Not only that, but if you have crapty service, you'd still have to pay a jacked up rate. If we are asking restaurants, especially smaller mom and pop places, to increase a facet of their business' costs by 3 times, they are not going to last long, or going to have to jack up prices to consumers. There is a reason the tipping system was put into place. /end of boring economics rant Except if most people are paying tips to begin with, how does the consumer-side cost differ? I mean, if the cost of my dinner goes up by 2-5 bucks (the price per hour difference), the consumer wouldn't notice the different if they pay a tip and the restaurants would actually make more money if the price change in one person's meal accounted for the wage difference. Hell, if they wanted to keep costs low for their customers, they wouldn't even need to raise prices that much assuming they do a reasonable amount of business. Two things. First, they would have to raise it more than $2-5 an hour because of taxes. If they have to pay their employee $5 more an hour, they'd have to raise the meal price at least $7 just to stay on pace cause they are incuring more taxable income that goes to Uncle Sam. Second, if it was going to make the restaurant more money, plenty of restaurants would be doing this. Its not mandatory that they pay the employee $2 an hour. My family owns several restaurants, I know they wouldn't be able to swing that $5 a head per hour increase. Just do the math out. Say a $4 an hour increase per 4 waiters a day on average working 10 hours a day (12pm-10am). Over the course of a year, thats an additional $60,000 they'd have to add to their operating expenses. That is almost impossible for most restaurants to overcome, especially smaller ones. And of course, when the restaurants start making cuts, it will be towards the waitstaff, meaning worse service. Coupled that with waiters not having to earn that tip, service would go down the drain, once again, not smart for consumers.
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Deleted
Joined on: Sept 28, 2024 10:31:34 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2012 5:05:11 GMT -5
I do when i'm in other country's where apparently waiters make their living of tips,which has always been a very weird thing to me. i'm from belgium and over here nobody tips... just because people working in bars just get paid a montlhy salary just like any other employee in any other line of work. the whole tipping thing is really not that ingrained over here. You just order a drink and pay the bill and leave.
i don't look at waiters as being my slave or anything, that's just absurd. if they didn't want to serve people then they're in the wrong job i suppose.
My parents had 2 bars, i started working in them too at 16 and i can tell you, i can probably still count the amount of tips we got over the years on one hand, it's just not something peopledo around here.
Then again, i can't imagine people over here working for tips lol, so what,if you have a bad day where there's little customers or no tips you have made no money that day ?? the system is so awkward to me i could never see it functioning that way in my country
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Post by Edge618 on Feb 20, 2012 7:46:00 GMT -5
I never ever tip, never have and never will. I don't employ them, why should I pay them. Most food at restaurants is overpriced to begin with, and they charge you $2.50 for a damn glass of soda most places. I hate that tipping is seen by some people as mandatory. Its an option, and I also hate it even more when I don't tip, and the waiter or waitress automatically becomes a bung hole. Well, actually, it makes me feel better, because it proves their whole charade of being a nice person before they knew they weren't getting a tip was fake. When I don't tip, and the waiter is still friendly, I smile, because that's the type of people who will get the hell out of the place and go on to something. People who rely on and expect free money for their work that I'm not employing them to do will never make it out.
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Post by Mike Giggs' Munchies on Feb 20, 2012 10:52:02 GMT -5
Tipping is a much bigger phenomenon in the US than over here. Not saying we don't tip, 'cos we do, but its not held as such an important part of the experience. I think the base pay for waiters is better over here too. 10% seems to be the standard for a fairly good experience.
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Post by Kliquid on Feb 20, 2012 13:31:32 GMT -5
I never ever tip, never have and never will. I don't employ them, why should I pay them. Most food at restaurants is overpriced to begin with, and they charge you $2.50 for a damn glass of soda most places. I hate that tipping is seen by some people as mandatory. Its an option, and I also hate it even more when I don't tip, and the waiter or waitress automatically becomes a bung hole. Well, actually, it makes me feel better, because it proves their whole charade of being a nice person before they knew they weren't getting a tip was fake. When I don't tip, and the waiter is still friendly, I smile, because that's the type of people who will get the hell out of the place and go on to something. People who rely on and expect free money for their work that I'm not employing them to do will never make it out. You do realize that if no one tipped, they'd make literally like $5/hr., right? And you wonder why they'd be upset? Are you really so pissed off at the world that you can't give someone an extra few bucks for SERVING you? Look, I agree with you. Tipping really is a dumb concept that creates "fake smiles." But society has chosen to these people over by paying them less than minimum wage with the assumption that YOU will be tipping them. The other option is that they increase the employee's pay, which would mean the price of your food would go up. So you'd be paying MORE for the food that you already don't think is worth the price, but you also wouldn't have the option to NOT give them that money if the service is really crappy. Tipping is there as an incentive to make the waiter/waitress do a better job. Think about it -- if you remove the tips from what they do, what is their incentive to give you good service? What's their incentive to do better than the absolute bare minimum? Nothing.
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Post by Halloween King on Feb 20, 2012 19:35:58 GMT -5
I never ever tip, never have and never will. I don't employ them, why should I pay them. Most food at restaurants is overpriced to begin with, and they charge you $2.50 for a damn glass of soda most places. I hate that tipping is seen by some people as mandatory. Its an option, and I also hate it even more when I don't tip, and the waiter or waitress automatically becomes a bung hole. Well, actually, it makes me feel better, because it proves their whole charade of being a nice person before they knew they weren't getting a tip was fake. When I don't tip, and the waiter is still friendly, I smile, because that's the type of people who will get the hell out of the place and go on to something. People who rely on and expect free money for their work that I'm not employing them to do will never make it out. You do realize that if no one tipped, they'd make literally like $5/hr., right? And you wonder why they'd be upset? Are you really so pissed off at the world that you can't give someone an extra few bucks for SERVING you? Look, I agree with you. Tipping really is a dumb concept that creates "fake smiles." But society has chosen to these people over by paying them less than minimum wage with the assumption that YOU will be tipping them. The other option is that they increase the employee's pay, which would mean the price of your food would go up. So you'd be paying MORE for the food that you already don't think is worth the price, but you also wouldn't have the option to NOT give them that money if the service is really crappy.Tipping is there as an incentive to make the waiter/waitress do a better job. Think about it -- if you remove the tips from what they do, what is their incentive to give you good service? What's their incentive to do better than the absolute bare minimum? Nothing. Im sure restaurants would love to use employees being better paid as an excuse to raise prices.
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Post by Kliquid on Feb 20, 2012 19:45:12 GMT -5
Im sure restaurants would love to use employees being better paid as an excuse to raise prices. It's not an excuse, it's a REASON. This happens in every industry and people are just too stupid to realize it. Every time there is more regulation, more expenses on a business, two groups suffer -- the employees and the consumers, not necessarily in that order. Cost of business goes up, cost of products go up. Economics 101.
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Post by Nivro™ on Feb 20, 2012 19:56:29 GMT -5
If you dont tip or tip cheaply and you return to the same place you've eaten before....AND you've had the same waiter, I can PROMISE you've had your food and/or drink messed with and there is no way you'll ever know. As someone that worked in a restaurant for many years during college days, there are HUNDREDS of ways to mess with people's drinks/foods to where you'll never know. not some silly stuff like on Waiting where it would be obvious but legit crapthat will have you up all night long blowing BBQ out your ass and hunkered over with the gut aches.
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Post by Halloween King on Feb 20, 2012 20:20:47 GMT -5
Im sure restaurants would love to use employees being better paid as an excuse to raise prices. It's not an excuse, it's a REASON. This happens in every industry and people are just too stupid to realize it. Every time there is more regulation, more expenses on a business, two groups suffer -- the employees and the consumers, not necessarily in that order. Cost of business goes up, cost of products go up. Economics 101. I agree with it being a reason for prices to go up BUT I think companys wont just increase prices by the amount needed. I think though that if a restaurant needed to raise prices by 1 dollar per meal to cover expenses that they would use those expenses as an excuse to raise it up 2 dollars, not just the one. Kinda like when one kid sneaks something into school and then they use that one thing to put metal detectors, security guards, and random searches in place.
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Post by Happy Pizza on Feb 20, 2012 20:29:19 GMT -5
Wow, some of you guys are just awful people. The logic being employed in this thread borders on delusional. All I can say is that I hope you guys don't ask for compassion when the shoe is on the other foot.
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jakksking1
Main Eventer
Joined on: Feb 2, 2011 14:45:41 GMT -5
Posts: 2,843
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Post by jakksking1 on Feb 20, 2012 20:29:54 GMT -5
It's not an excuse, it's a REASON. This happens in every industry and people are just too stupid to realize it. Every time there is more regulation, more expenses on a business, two groups suffer -- the employees and the consumers, not necessarily in that order. Cost of business goes up, cost of products go up. Economics 101. I agree with it being a reason for prices to go up BUT I think companys wont just increase prices by the amount needed. I think though that if a restaurant needed to raise prices by 1 dollar per meal to cover expenses that they would use those expenses as an excuse to raise it up 2 dollars, not just the one. Kinda like when one kid sneaks something into school and then they use that one thing to put metal detectors, security guards, and random searches in place. Thats a good point. We wouldnt want to give them an excuse to raise prices..... So keep the tip system, right?
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Post by Yeezy's Mullet: Team X Blades on Feb 21, 2012 2:04:32 GMT -5
Wow, some of you guys are just awful people. The logic being employed in this thread borders on delusional. All I can say is that I hope you guys don't ask for compassion when the shoe is on the other foot. Meh, like I said before, I still detest this idea the tip is owed upon walking in the door. I'm more than willing to tip and help out servers, because I know they make crappy money. I think it sucks that they do. But I just don't buy into someone telling me that tips aren't earned, because they most certainly are as far as I'm concerned. Yes, I get that the tip should be included as a part of the service. But if that service is horrible, whomever that server is deserved to make the $5.00 for that hour that they provided that service. That's why I feel the decision to tip should be up to me and decided during service, and not this preconceived "must", no matter who the server or service.
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Post by Kliquid on Feb 21, 2012 2:11:58 GMT -5
Of course. If someone gives you particularly terrible service, you shouldn't tip them.
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Post by juicewinslow on Feb 21, 2012 6:20:01 GMT -5
Some of you guys are cheap as sh*t. lol. ..or just broke. or just should not be in public.
I would be embarrassed to sit down in a restaurant or bar with most of you guys. For real.
You know tipping is NOT expected at places like McDonald's. Just go there instead and refill your own drinks.
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Post by Halloween King on Feb 21, 2012 7:18:54 GMT -5
Wow, some of you guys are just awful people. The logic being employed in this thread borders on delusional. All I can say is that I hope you guys don't ask for compassion when the shoe is on the other foot. Id rather be honest than lie. Anyone could pop on this thread and say something like....... I tip 90 percent, im super mega rich.
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Post by Lk™ on Feb 21, 2012 7:24:37 GMT -5
I generally do tip, but if they don't do their job up to par and the service isn't great, i won't do it.
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Post by Matt on Feb 21, 2012 10:03:11 GMT -5
I am a waiter. Minium wage in New Jersey is somewhere around $7.50/hour. Servers get paid around $2.35/hour. So for the people who say "I don't tip because they are doing their job and get paid minimum wage" you might want to rethink that logic.
If I have absolutely horrible service I tip ten percent, to at least cover the tax the server pays on the sale. Average service gets about 15%, good service 20%, and for great service I have given over 100% tips before.
People need to remember that waiters are human and they might be having a bad day, something we all have. People who never worked in the industry don't understand how difficult it really can be.
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Post by King of Kings on Feb 21, 2012 10:10:12 GMT -5
I am a waiter. Minium wage in New Jersey is somewhere around $7.50/hour. Servers get paid around $2.35/hour. So for the people who say "I don't tip because they are doing their job and get paid minimum wage" you might want to rethink that logic. If I have absolutely horrible service I tip ten percent, to at least cover the tax the server pays on the sale. Average service gets about 15%, good service 20%, and for great service I have given over 100% tips before. People need to remember that waiters are human and they might be having a bad day, something we all have. People who never worked in the industry don't understand how difficult it really can be. I tip for this reason. However I won't tip if the person is either rude or they act as though I'm wasting their time. By that I mean, if they're talking to co-workers and not doing their job, when i'm ready for the check and they scoff and come over and just throw it down without saying anything. I've had that happen, that results in no tip. I don't always leave 15% though. If the service is excellent I will. When I went to Dallas, Texas for a web design competition with my school (paid for by the school! yessah) we went to a fancy, fancy steakhouse. I forget the name of it but all 20 something of us had expensive steaks (the most I've ever spent on food at one time) and our bill was like $1500 bucks. We left a $150 tip because they had to deal with 25 or so people. I wish I remembered the name of the joint, all I remember is the price and that a band was playing called "Shock of Pleasure." So yeah, I do tip.
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B Dubya
Superstar
Joined on: Dec 25, 2011 2:46:44 GMT -5
Posts: 961
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Post by B Dubya on Feb 21, 2012 11:29:59 GMT -5
I'm a Pizza Delivery Guy. If I didn't get tips, I wouldn't be able to support myself and my wife.
Minimum wage here in AZ was just raised to $7.65 at the start of the year. I make $5.50/hr.
If I don't leave the store with 40-50$ each night, I'm not happy. Yes, they're tips, but think about this;
Especially at night, when you call, who takes your order? Me. Who makes it? Me. Who delivers it? Me. Yeah, that's my job. But, who pays for gas to get to your house? Me. Who has to cover the cost of repairs when my car dies? Me. New tires? Me again.
Do you really think that can be covered on $5.50 an hour? When an average shift is only 6 hours? Nope, don't think so.
To all of you that tip, thank you. To those who tip what you can, thank you. To those who don't because you feel I'm getting paid to do my job; do my job, don't get tipped, and then return with the same high horse attitude. I promise it won't happen.
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