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Post by Kliquid on Jun 27, 2013 11:19:51 GMT -5
If it was a baby by the time it was to be aborted then maybe. So if it's 8 and a half months in the mother's womb, it still has no say on its own life?
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Post by Tye Hyll on Jun 27, 2013 11:36:08 GMT -5
I dont believe in late term abortion, not unless the mothers life is in absolute danger.
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Post by johnnyb on Jun 27, 2013 11:49:33 GMT -5
I dont give excuses to dead beat dads but if the father wants nothing to do with the kid then the mother should seriously consider her options and not lock the father in. Maybe that person is hurt financially and a kid would just destroy anything they have going on with their life. I don't think that is very fair. Without stating my opinion on abortion, I would just like to say that this is the dumbest post in the thread so far.
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Post by Tye Hyll on Jun 27, 2013 11:52:33 GMT -5
I don't see how.
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Post by johnnyb on Jun 27, 2013 12:07:09 GMT -5
You really just said "It's not fair to the guy who didn't use a condom that he should have to be responsible for the child if the mother has it" and you don't understand how dumb that sounds? Be serious.
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Post by Tye Hyll on Jun 27, 2013 12:14:56 GMT -5
Who said he didnt? Who said it didnt break? Who said the woman wasnt on birth control and that failed? Why is not the woman's fault for not assuring protection?
All I'm saying is don't be surprised if the father is a dead beat when they say beforehand they can not responsibly take care of a child. The mother would be pretty wreckless to not get an abortion or put the child up for adoption knowing she will be a single parent. If she wants to be a single parent she should accept the fate that comes with it. I am not trying to justify dead beat fathers in general I am just saying not everything is so black and white.
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Post by johnnyb on Jun 27, 2013 12:16:12 GMT -5
LOL, okay, I tried for one response. As you were.
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Post by Kliquid on Jun 27, 2013 12:21:03 GMT -5
I dont believe in late term abortion, not unless the mothers life is in absolute danger. So you just decide when a baby becomes a baby, based on what?
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Post by Tye Hyll on Jun 27, 2013 12:28:36 GMT -5
I dont believe in late term abortion, not unless the mothers life is in absolute danger. So you just decide when a baby becomes a baby, based on what? This crazy ing thing called science. Oh and who are we, as humans, do decide the fate of any animal? We do it though, don't we? Should people be punished for masturbation? Where does it really end?
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Post by Kliquid on Jun 27, 2013 12:36:28 GMT -5
This crazy ing thing called science. So when do most scientists agree that life begins? Oh yeah. At conception. Oh and who are we, as humans, do decide the fate of any animal? We do it though, don't we? This is actually a decent question. Do animals actually have rights? As an animal lover, this one is tough for me. But in the end, the truth is that they don't have rights. And really, can't. Should people be punished for masturbation? Where does it really end? What the hell does masturbation have to do with this? Masturbation doesn't create human life.
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Post by Tye Hyll on Jun 27, 2013 12:40:39 GMT -5
You kill all that sperm, all those potential children.
The point of the matter is it is a very gray area with valid points on each side and its why I think it should remain as it is. It all comes down to morals. I think the option should be there for people who want it. If people dont like it they dont have to have one. I'm just sick of seeing laws that take away rights in "the land of the free"
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Post by Kliquid on Jun 27, 2013 12:49:03 GMT -5
You kill all that sperm, all those potential children. Do you understand how babies are made? I'm not trying to be a dick. I'm seriously asking the question. You do know that an egg AND sperm are needed, right? The point of the matter is it is a very gray area with valid points on each side and its why I think it should remain as it is. It all comes down to morals. I think the option should be there for people who want it. If people dont like it they dont have to have one. I'm just sick of seeing laws that take away rights in "the land of the free" If you're "pro-choice" then you should be "pro-choice" up until the BIRTH of the child. Deciding that a fetus magically becomes a baby sometime during the growth process is completely contrary to science. If you're "pro-life" then you should be "pro-life" no matter what. Even if the mother was raped by her uncle and the baby will almost certainly kill her on the way out. All I ask is for some consistency from these people who seem to be so staunch in their opinions that all logic goes out the window. Yes, as you said, there is an incredible amount of gray area. But both the "pro-choice" and "pro-life" people are full of crap, if you ask me. And yet, somehow the "pro-choice vs. pro-life" argument has taken over our political landscape in this country. There are people who are literally one-issue voters, for PRESIDENT, based on whether he or she is pro-life or pro-choice. That is ing embarrassing.
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Post by Tye Hyll on Jun 27, 2013 12:52:14 GMT -5
But not everything is so black and white really. I can go on but I just do not feel like or care. Abortion is legal here and my GF is pro choice so really non of this matters to me whatsoever at the end of the day.
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Post by Kliquid on Jun 27, 2013 15:19:58 GMT -5
But not everything is so black and white really. I can go on but I just do not feel like or care. Abortion is legal here and my GF is pro choice so really non of this matters to me whatsoever at the end of the day. No, in this case, it does need to be black-and-white because you're talking about killing something. When you say, "I'm pro-choice but I don't think people should be able to have abortions past a certain date," what you're really saying is, "I don't care about the science behind it. I decided this in my mind and no reasoning or logic is going to get in the way of that."
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Post by Tye Hyll on Jun 27, 2013 15:30:40 GMT -5
No, nothing is black and white. That isnt realistic. I really just have no care for getting into it. I'm not a political junky like you and I am already bored on the subject.
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Post by Kliquid on Jun 27, 2013 16:14:18 GMT -5
So again, what is the basis of when it is OK to abort? Because again, science says that every child develops at a different rate, so I'm just wondering what the point is that you would decide that a woman can or cannot have an abortion. Also, who's going to go in and inspect how many days pregnant each woman is? If a woman does not report being pregnant, how do we determine how far along she is when she had the abortion?
Also what law would you put in place to stop people from having an abortion after the point you choose? Would it be enforced down to the minute? As in, at 11:59pm one day, it's legal; then 12:00am the next day, it's no longer legal?
I'm just trying to figure out the liberal mindset on this one. Again, I am not pro-life of pro-choice. I'm trying to understand both sides and get answers to where I believe both sides are lying to themselves. Maybe I'm misunderstanding.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2013 16:22:55 GMT -5
I'm not saying you're heartless, it's the ridiculous how so many people have the impression that it's either abortion or being stuck with a kid, when adoption is an option. Saying kids put up for adoption will lead to bad lives for them is a ridiculously short sided statement. There's millions of people who were adopted or lived their childhood in foster homes or orphanages or whatever and went on to live happy and great lives, lives they wouldn't have had a chance to lead if they were aborted. You have to take into consideration Rape, health concerns to the mother and simply not wanting to go through pregnancy. That can be for many reasons, some not as selfish as "I dont want to" But school, work, etc. It is always easy for a guy to say "just have the kid". While I think the father should get a vote in the decision I think they legality of abortion should be left for women to decide. I'm speaking purely just not wanting the baby, which is probably where a lot of abortions begin. I agree on some terms of the rape and believe in the extreme risk to mother for viable reasons, but I'd hazard to say that those are only a small percentage of abortions.
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Post by Kliquid on Jun 27, 2013 16:32:26 GMT -5
Why is it OK to have an abortion if the woman is raped, but not if the woman had consensual sex?
Isn't the reason that we don't want babies aborted because we...........don't....want...babies...aborted?...
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Post by ztj_wwf on Jun 27, 2013 16:35:45 GMT -5
A compromise at least needs to be made in banning abortion after viability of the fetus...Not that it happens very often, but by law, abortions can take place a week before the delivery date, which I hope most would agree to be very wrong. Also, the fact that it's a "woman's right" to terminate her pregnancy, but if a man pushes her down the stairs or a doctor screws up, he's charged with murder, doesn't make much sense to me. If the argument is that it's "not a life", then there's a huge contradiction there.
Either way, I think people need to start taking responsibility and realize the fact that the act of sex exists for the purpose of procreating. Common sense says if you are not prepared to have a child, then you shouldn't be doing the deed.
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Post by slappy on Jun 27, 2013 16:41:04 GMT -5
Why is it OK to have an abortion if the woman is raped, but not if the woman had consensual sex? Isn't the reason that we don't want babies aborted because we...........don't....want...babies...aborted?... I'm pro-choice and I don't understand the reason behind the "Abortion is bad unless" stance. They'll say it is murder unless the woman is raped, it was the product of incest or the woman's health is in danger. If they think abortion is murder then why isn't it murder in those cases? Or if it still is murder then why are they ok with murder in those instances but not because the woman just doesn't want it? Doesn't make sense to me.
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