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Post by Markw on Dec 7, 2013 4:09:13 GMT -5
If a perfectly ordinary and pleasant human being having slightly different beliefs to you about why/how they're on the earth, upsets you this much, then I think maybe you need psychiatric treatment. You seem to think that being an atheist makes you more intelligent than religious people, but it doesn't, in fact all you've done in this thread is shown that you're an intolerant idiot (or a troll). I don't believe in God, probably as strongly as you don't, but who gives a crap what anyone else believes as long as they're not hurting anyone? And how can you condemn religion for causing discrimination when you're quite clearly discriminating against religious people? For the record many of the geniuses you listed earlier on were agnostics, while a number of hugely significant religious men like Isaac Newton have been conveniently ignored. Are we saying that you're more intelligent than Isaac Newton was, because you don't believe a fairy tale? The only reason Netwon was religious is because there was far more evidence for the argument. If someone of identical cognitive faculties were alive today, they would be as vocal an atheist as Htichens. It was reasonable to conceive that God(s) existed during his age. You're also failing to distinguish genius from knowledge. Any of us have more knowledge about our world than Newton did about his. It's simply knowledge of different subjects. It doesn't mean that his brain wasn't more apt to processing this information. If he were among our contemporaries, he'd easily be among the scientific elite, or the very finest of whatever field he chose. While he, nor you or anyone involved in this thread is more cognitively apt than Newton, we all have a higher, overall quantity of knowledge on multiple subjects. The very field of cancer research proves that. I didn't ask him anything about knowledge, I asked him if he was more intelligent. The Oxford English dictionary defines intelligence as, 'The ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills', so he clearly isn't more intelligent than Isaac Newton although, he apparently thinks he is. If I'd said anything about knowledge then that might be a reasonable point, but I didn't so I'm not really sure where that's coming from? The fact is he thinks that being an atheist makes him more intelligent than all religious people and he is quite clearly wrong, he's an idiot and he's proved that time and time again in this thread. The fact of the matter is that Isaac Newton was religious and if RAGNAROK thinks that he is anywhere near Newton's level of intelligence (which he apparently does) then he is the one who needs to seek psychiatric treatment. And for the record there are, I'm certain, thousands of religious people in the world today who could run rings around him intellectually, he's not more intelligent than all religious people because of his views on one subject. Although his stubbornness, his resorting to basic arguments (If I felt the need to argue with religious people then I'm sure I could do better than 'it's a fairy tale' and I'm pretty sure most atheists could) and the fact that's he's unwilling to listen to multiple points of view would suggest that actually, he's not that bright at all. Although now that he's claimed he's more intelligent than Newton, I'm beginning to think that he's on the wind up. Yes, I am more intelligent than Isaac Newton. Now answer my question. Ok hang on a second, I'll do so once I've stopped laughing. Right, I'm done now. So if I went around preaching the word of Spider-Man and Batman and claim that they really exist you're gonna tell me that's socially acceptable and that I'm a normal person? If you weren't hurting anyone then I'd let you get on with it to be honest.
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Dec 7, 2013 4:23:55 GMT -5
The only reason Netwon was religious is because there was far more evidence for the argument. If someone of identical cognitive faculties were alive today, they would be as vocal an atheist as Htichens. It was reasonable to conceive that God(s) existed during his age. You're also failing to distinguish genius from knowledge. Any of us have more knowledge about our world than Newton did about his. It's simply knowledge of different subjects. It doesn't mean that his brain wasn't more apt to processing this information. If he were among our contemporaries, he'd easily be among the scientific elite, or the very finest of whatever field he chose. While he, nor you or anyone involved in this thread is more cognitively apt than Newton, we all have a higher, overall quantity of knowledge on multiple subjects. The very field of cancer research proves that. I didn't ask him anything about knowledge, I asked him if he was more intelligent. The Oxford English dictionary defines intelligence as, 'The ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills', so he clearly isn't more intelligent than Isaac Newton although, he apparently thinks he is. If I'd said anything about knowledge then that might be a reasonable point, but I didn't so I'm not really sure where that's coming from? The fact is he thinks that being an atheist makes him more intelligent than all religious people and he is quite clearly wrong, he's an idiot and he's proved that time and time again in this thread. The fact of the matter is that Isaac Newton was religious and if RAGNAROK thinks that he is anywhere near Newton's level of intelligence (which he apparently does) then he is the one who needs to seek psychiatric treatment. And for the record there are, I'm certain, thousands of religious people in the world today who could run rings around him intellectually, he's not more intelligent than all religious people because of his views on one subject. Although his stubbornness, his resorting to basic arguments (If I felt the need to argue with religious people then I'm sure I could do better than 'it's a fairy tale' and I'm pretty sure most atheists could) and the fact that's he's unwilling to listen to multiple points of view would suggest that actually, he's not that bright at all. Although now that he's claimed he's more intelligent than Newton, I'm beginning to think that he's on the wind up. Yes, I am more intelligent than Isaac Newton. Now answer my question. Ok hang on a second, I'll do so once I've stopped laughing. . Right, I'm done now. So if I went around preaching the word of Spider-Man and Batman and claim that they really exist you're gonna tell me that's socially acceptable and that I'm a normal person? If you weren't hurting anyone then I'd let you get on with it to be honest. Intelligence is also relative to the subject in question. Newton was a genius for his time, but technically RAGNAROK, You, & Myself all hold some form of intellectual superiority to Newton. So both of you have flawed inquiries. He's read all of your viewpoints, but they all failed to change his concern for people who justify atrocities against society with religious texts. You've all clung to the rule that all is fine, so long as harm is not being caused. The problem is that far too much harm comes from it. Secondly, as it relates to religious history & Philsophy, he, you, & I are all most likely more intelligent than Issac Newton because we have more tools & texts of study at our disposal. That doesn't change his superior cognitive faculties, which is what you are referring to when you describe him as "Intelligent" whether you realize it or not. Religion has always leaked more poison than it will ever pour waters of life promoting truth.
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Post by Markw on Dec 7, 2013 4:30:48 GMT -5
but in no way does this justify the bloodshed, bigotry, rape, corruption, & oppression that religious institutions have caused. This is because I wish to contribute to ridding the world of all injustice & tyranny no matter the perpetrator. Right first of all religion doesn't cause those things, it is used to justify them, but if it wasn't there then something else would be found to justify it. Human nature, greed, fear and a lust for power (or just lust in general) tend to be the motivators for the problems you've mentioned there. And secondly if you want to rid the world of all injustice then you can't get rid of religion (which is what the original topic is about). The vast majority of religious people cause no harm to others. Many certainly do need to be educated on topics such as Homosexuality and they need to be made aware that a lot of them are picking and choosing which parts of their religious text they want to believe. But you can't just tear down mosques (for example), ban the religion, and think that's anything other than injustice and tyranny.
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Dec 7, 2013 4:47:18 GMT -5
but in no way does this justify the bloodshed, bigotry, rape, corruption, & oppression that religious institutions have caused. This is because I wish to contribute to ridding the world of all injustice & tyranny no matter the perpetrator. Right first of all religion doesn't cause those things, it is used to justify them, but if it wasn't there then something else would be found to justify it. Human nature, greed, fear and a lust for power (or just lust in general) tend to be the motivators for the problems you've mentioned there. And secondly if you want to rid the world of all injustice then you can't get rid of religion (which is what the original topic is about). The vast majority of religious people cause no harm to others. Many certainly do need to be educated on topics such as Homosexuality and they need to be made aware that a lot of them are picking and choosing which parts of their religious text they want to believe. But you can't just tear down mosques (for example), ban the religion, and think that's anything other than injustice and tyranny. I would like to assume you only took issue with that particular passage because the rest of my post was valid, but I'm not optimistic enough to believe that. Moving on, yes you can. I covered various points that support this throughout my posts this evening. In reality, I never said we should ban religion. I said we should separate church from state. If you actually educate people the way you suggest(Which I completely support) then the majority of them would hopefully give up their delusions for a new, self-empowered life filled with beauty & clarity. This in essence, is how you "Get rid of religion". Believe what your want in the privacy of your own mind & your own home. Although why you would want to worship a being that can apparently condemn you to eternal suffering for those thoughts, I'll never understand. However, don't expect to be given any political power over the community. Have the facts & evidence to support your claim, or your opinions/proposals won't be taken into consideration. One last thing. Religion does cause those things to happen. The people who uphold a religion ARE the religion. The justification of an action is the reason for the occurrence of that actions. The crusades occurred because the Popes of the period justified those abominations of endeavor to the Christians of Western Europe.
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Post by Markw on Dec 7, 2013 5:06:39 GMT -5
Right first of all religion doesn't cause those things, it is used to justify them, but if it wasn't there then something else would be found to justify it. Human nature, greed, fear and a lust for power (or just lust in general) tend to be the motivators for the problems you've mentioned there. And secondly if you want to rid the world of all injustice then you can't get rid of religion (which is what the original topic is about). The vast majority of religious people cause no harm to others. Many certainly do need to be educated on topics such as Homosexuality and they need to be made aware that a lot of them are picking and choosing which parts of their religious text they want to believe. But you can't just tear down mosques (for example), ban the religion, and think that's anything other than injustice and tyranny. I would like to assume you only took issue with that particular passage because the rest of my post was valid, but I'm not optimistic enough to believe that. Moving on, yes you can. I covered various points that support this throughout my posts this evening. In reality, I never said we should ban religion. I said we should separate church from state. If you actually educate people the way you suggest(Which I completely support) then the majority of them would hopefully give up their delusions for a new, self-empowered life filled with beauty & clarity. This in essence, is how you "Get rid of religion". Believe what your want in the privacy of your own mind & your own home. Although why you would want to worship a being that can apparently condemn you to eternal suffering for those thoughts, I'll never understand. However, don't expect to be given any political power over the community. Have the facts & evidence to support your claim, or your opinions/proposals won't be taken into consideration. One last thing. Religion does cause those things to happen. The people who uphold a religion ARE the religion. The justification of an action is the reason for the occurrence of that actions. The crusades occurred because the Popes of the period justified those abominations of endeavor to the Christians of Western Europe. You're right I'm afraid, I still do take issue with the debate about the intelligence of Isaac Newton compared to our own. I think he was a lot more capable of applying knowledge and I think in terms of acquiring it I doubt he would have been miles behind us (or behind us at all to be honest). I'm not confusing intelligence with cognitive thinking, I just disagree with you. The justification of an action isn't the reason for the occurrence of an action. Leaders have used religion and various other excuses to justify their action for ever, but surely you're not naive enough to think that, that's the reason they happen? For example, surely you can see that the leader of a country is going to get more support from the people in that country, if he says he's sending them to die in the name of peace, rather than to acquire oil? Or a leader might tell his people that he's sending them to die in order to protect their religion rather than in order to acquire more land. The cause is whatever the person is going to get out of it, why they want to do it, and the way it's justified is whatever excuse the person finds that works. If it wasn't religion it would be something else.
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Post by Lord Ragnarok on Dec 7, 2013 7:54:32 GMT -5
Okay, why don't you take a whack at trying to disprove them? And I love how you just single out one of my valid arguments. I'm really curious as to what you have to say about the rest. "Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be just like him." - Proverbs 26:4Apparently they had trolls in King Solomon's time too. You're clearly not interested in any answers. If you were, a quick search could find them. You are full of hate for 90-95% of the world's population. Honestly, I pity you more than anything. It's sad. So basically you have you nothing. I did the search and found the contradictions. You said any theist with half a brain can poke a million holes in them, so you be able to do that on the spot without have to do a search, right? So please, PLEASE make an attempt to disprove these contradictions. And I don't hate all religious people, my mother and grandmother are religious, do I hate them? Obviously not. What better names can you think of for these things? I don't believe anything in the Bible to be true and it's stories are so outlandish that I don't know what else to call them but fairy tales. That is what they are essentially, mythological fairy tales. You got a better name for them? I'm a Christian. I don't believe many of the stories about Muhammad. I don't believe the angel Gabriel appeared to him and told him things that were contrary to the Christianity I practice. I don't believe the miracles some attribute to him. I don't go around telling the Muslims that I work with that they believe in fairy tales and that my "sky daddy" can beat up their "sky daddy". Why? Because I'm not an bunghole. The world is big enough for them to believe what they want and me to believe what I want. So what are you gonna do if Islam turns out to be the one true religion? What makes Biblical stories more true than the Islamic ones? How do you know the stories of Muhammad are fiction but the stories of Jesus are the truth? Comparing psychiatric treatment to burning people alive? -_- You are seriously clueless. Yes, I am more intelligent than Isaac Newton. Now answer my question. My MO? I've replied to every single response. You have completely ignored the last few replies I gave you. I SHOULD copy and paste the "Spider-Man" and "Burning Bush" lines since I've yet to get a clear response for them. I have to admit, your replies are, at the very least, entertaining. Do you speak like this without a computer? If you were in a classroom, or on a discussion panel, even the dinner table, would you broach this issue the same way with a similar group of people? What if you were at a table with a muslim, a christian, a catholic, a protestant and a jewish person? Would you talk like you type? Would you tell them they needed psychiatric help? Good job side stepping my statements. Out of all the replies, yours are the most laughable. I'm sorry, I can't take anything you say seriously. I will no longer be replying to any more of your posts as I fee I am arguing with a first grader. What better names can you think of for these things? I don't believe anything in the Bible to be true and it's stories are so outlandish that I don't know what else to call them but fairy tales. That is what they are essentially, mythological fairy tales. You got a better name for them? You could just say, I don't believe in God instead of saying "Sky Daddy" and you could say I don't believe the Bible is true, or I don't believe in Christianity instead of just saying fairly tales. You use those words because you know they are inflammatory and will get a reaction from people and hopefully offend them. You don't deliberately try to offend people you are trying to have a civil debate with. Which is the core of the problem. You aren't interested in civil debate or discussion and it shows by your terminology and inability to even consider why someone does believe because you have deemed all religion stupid and all who take part in it as lesser individuals. I'm just calling a spade a spade.
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Post by Lord Ragnarok on Dec 7, 2013 7:58:53 GMT -5
If you weren't hurting anyone then I'd let you get on with it to be honest. Of course you would, anybody would, but that doesn't mean you and others are not thinking to yourselves that I'm a complete whack job and would not want to associate with me in any way. Good god, you people are so clueless and just keep giving me the run around instead of any logical answers. Every credible thing I've said has been sidestepped by each and every one of you.
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Post by slappy on Dec 7, 2013 8:00:17 GMT -5
You admit God is good. Take that atheists.
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Post by slappy on Dec 7, 2013 8:04:18 GMT -5
Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil)You say everyone should be educated. Would you force people to go to some education center and tell them their religion is a lie then tell them what you believe to be true instead? I don't see how we are ever going to find someone that is 100% selfless to give power to. You said people should have to present a valid reason to the evaluator. And since you say there is no valid reason then they can't really present one.
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Post by Lord Ragnarok on Dec 7, 2013 9:10:05 GMT -5
Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil)You say everyone should be educated. Would you force people to go to some education center and tell them their religion is a lie then tell them what you believe to be true instead? I don't see how we are ever going to find someone that is 100% selfless to give power to. You said people should have to present a valid reason to the evaluator. And since you say there is no valid reason then they can't really present one. Well, bottom line is there is nothing that can be done or should be done to change people's beliefs. It is my hope that they discover the truth on their own by being more open minded and doing legit research. That's what I did and it became apparent to me that religion is nonsense. I guess I'll have to post that quote by Bertrand Russel again: This is really the only thing that can be done.
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Post by slappy on Dec 7, 2013 9:21:44 GMT -5
"In extreme cases there can be little doubt of the superiority of one race to another.... It seems on the whole fair to regard negroes as on the average inferior to white men, although for work in the tropics they are indispensable, so that their extermination (apart from questions of humanity) would be highly undesirable."
- Bertrand Russell
If we are going to play the racist card in the Mandela thread and disregard him because of it then we'll disregard Russell because of it.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Dec 7, 2013 11:01:24 GMT -5
Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil)You say everyone should be educated. Would you force people to go to some education center and tell them their religion is a lie then tell them what you believe to be true instead? I don't see how we are ever going to find someone that is 100% selfless to give power to. You said people should have to present a valid reason to the evaluator. And since you say there is no valid reason then they can't really present one. Well, bottom line is there is nothing that can be done or should be done to change people's beliefs. It is my hope that they discover the truth on their own by being more open minded and doing legit research. That's what I did and it became apparent to me that religion is nonsense. I guess I'll have to post that quote by Bertrand Russel again: This is really the only thing that can be done. Russell died in 1970. In the 40 years since then, religious belief has remained unchanged. The "God is Dead" argument has been made so many times over the course of history it's ridiculous. As human knowledge increases, people re-evaluate their religion in terms of the new knowledge. Religion never goes away and faith is running as strong today as it ever has.
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Dec 7, 2013 11:35:47 GMT -5
I would like to assume you only took issue with that particular passage because the rest of my post was valid, but I'm not optimistic enough to believe that. Moving on, yes you can. I covered various points that support this throughout my posts this evening. In reality, I never said we should ban religion. I said we should separate church from state. If you actually educate people the way you suggest(Which I completely support) then the majority of them would hopefully give up their delusions for a new, self-empowered life filled with beauty & clarity. This in essence, is how you "Get rid of religion". Believe what your want in the privacy of your own mind & your own home. Although why you would want to worship a being that can apparently condemn you to eternal suffering for those thoughts, I'll never understand. However, don't expect to be given any political power over the community. Have the facts & evidence to support your claim, or your opinions/proposals won't be taken into consideration. One last thing. Religion does cause those things to happen. The people who uphold a religion ARE the religion. The justification of an action is the reason for the occurrence of that actions. The crusades occurred because the Popes of the period justified those abominations of endeavor to the Christians of Western Europe. You're right I'm afraid, I still do take issue with the debate about the intelligence of Isaac Newton compared to our own. I think he was a lot more capable of applying knowledge and I think in terms of acquiring it I doubt he would have been miles behind us (or behind us at all to be honest). I'm not confusing intelligence with cognitive thinking, I just disagree with you. The justification of an action isn't the reason for the occurrence of an action. Leaders have used religion and various other excuses to justify their action for ever, but surely you're not naive enough to think that, that's the reason they happen? For example, surely you can see that the leader of a country is going to get more support from the people in that country, if he says he's sending them to die in the name of peace, rather than to acquire oil? Or a leader might tell his people that he's sending them to die in order to protect their religion rather than in order to acquire more land. The cause is whatever the person is going to get out of it, why they want to do it, and the way it's justified is whatever excuse the person finds that works. If it wasn't religion it would be something else. I do sound naive the way my response was written, but there have been many cases of people getting away with audacities against humanity because their religion allegedly, justified those actions. The only reason men are allowed to gentially, mutilate women in various African societies without suffering death by firing squad, is because that is a religious practice. So in a direct & at othertimes indirect way, the justification is responsible for the creation of the occurrence.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Dec 7, 2013 11:44:38 GMT -5
You're right I'm afraid, I still do take issue with the debate about the intelligence of Isaac Newton compared to our own. I think he was a lot more capable of applying knowledge and I think in terms of acquiring it I doubt he would have been miles behind us (or behind us at all to be honest). I'm not confusing intelligence with cognitive thinking, I just disagree with you. The justification of an action isn't the reason for the occurrence of an action. Leaders have used religion and various other excuses to justify their action for ever, but surely you're not naive enough to think that, that's the reason they happen? For example, surely you can see that the leader of a country is going to get more support from the people in that country, if he says he's sending them to die in the name of peace, rather than to acquire oil? Or a leader might tell his people that he's sending them to die in order to protect their religion rather than in order to acquire more land. The cause is whatever the person is going to get out of it, why they want to do it, and the way it's justified is whatever excuse the person finds that works. If it wasn't religion it would be something else. I do sound naive the way my response was written, but there have been many cases of people getting away with audacities against humanity because their religion allegedly, justified those actions. The only reason men are allowed to gentially, mutilate women in various African societies without suffering death by firing squad, is because that is a religious practice. So in a direct & at othertimes indirect way, the justification is responsible for the creation of the occurrence. The root of that isn't religion though. If you waved a magic wand and got rid of religion, people would still do the same thing, they'd just find other ways to justify it. Stalin killed hundreds of millions of people in the name of the State, not religion. That's just one example.
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Dec 7, 2013 11:54:57 GMT -5
Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil)You say everyone should be educated. Would you force people to go to some education center and tell them their religion is a lie then tell them what you believe to be true instead? I don't see how we are ever going to find someone that is 100% selfless to give power to. You said people should have to present a valid reason to the evaluator. And since you say there is no valid reason then they can't really present one. I never said people should forced in the way you're implying. You are defining "force" in the dictatorial sense. In my political system, it would be a requirement that is no different than taking the ACT, SAT, &/or GED tests before you're qualified to enroll in university. You're very logical in your concern of finding a truly altruistic person. We don't in a sense. One of my biggest issues with monotheism is the dilemma of one entity having too much power with no means of regulation. This is why having a parliament, or a congress is superior to a kingdom, which is what heaven supposedly is. Granted, those political systems can be very corrupt, but this is where the general problem comes in that drives all true scholars. A desire to rid the world of evil in the name of clarity, reason, & justice. I'm not dumb enough to claim that my ideas are perfect, but the glamorization of altruism, intellectual diologue, logical/critical inference, self-empowering lifestyles, equal rights, separation of church from state affairs, & creating laws that impose requirements of evidence from people about their claims is a step in the right direction.
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Dec 7, 2013 12:03:56 GMT -5
I do sound naive the way my response was written, but there have been many cases of people getting away with audacities against humanity because their religion allegedly, justified those actions. The only reason men are allowed to gentially, mutilate women in various African societies without suffering death by firing squad, is because that is a religious practice. So in a direct & at othertimes indirect way, the justification is responsible for the creation of the occurrence. The root of that isn't religion though. If you waved a magic wand and got rid of religion, people would still do the same thing, they'd just find other ways to justify it. Stalin killed hundreds of millions of people in the name of the State, not religion. That's just one example. Go read my rebuttal to MarkW on getting rid of religion. Make people realize their ability to work together & create even greater feelings of fulfillment, & they will put the religion away by themselves. Moving on, You really think I'm not trying to abolish the corruption of governments as well? The goal of a true philosopher is to bring full clarity to their universe. This requires deciding all attempts to justify one's actions, which if done properly, would enlighten anyone moral enough to refrain from serving such madmen. A dictator is only as powerful as the number of men dumb enough to die for him.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Dec 7, 2013 12:11:20 GMT -5
The root of that isn't religion though. If you waved a magic wand and got rid of religion, people would still do the same thing, they'd just find other ways to justify it. Stalin killed hundreds of millions of people in the name of the State, not religion. That's just one example. Go read my rebuttal to MarkW on getting rid of religion. Make people realize their ability to work together & create even greater feelings of fulfillment, & they will put the religion away by themselves. Moving on, You really think I'm not trying to abolish the corruption of governments as well? The goal of a true philosopher is to bring full clarity to their universe. This requires deciding all attempts to justify one's actions, which if done properly, would enlighten anyone moral enough to refrain from serving such madmen. A dictator is only as powerful as the number of men dumb enough to die for him. Religion already does all of those things. Religion makes people realize their ability to work together and creates feelings of fulfillment. That is one function of religion. So you're calling to scrap one system for something that does the same thing. Makes no sense.
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Post by Tim of thee on Dec 7, 2013 12:18:45 GMT -5
"Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be just like him." - Proverbs 26:4Apparently they had trolls in King Solomon's time too. You're clearly not interested in any answers. If you were, a quick search could find them. You are full of hate for 90-95% of the world's population. Honestly, I pity you more than anything. It's sad. So basically you have you nothing. I did the search and found the contradictions. You said any theist with half a brain can poke a million holes in them, so you be able to do that on the spot without have to do a search, right? So please, PLEASE make an attempt to disprove these contradictions. And I don't hate all religious people, my mother and grandmother are religious, do I hate them? Obviously not. I'm a Christian. I don't believe many of the stories about Muhammad. I don't believe the angel Gabriel appeared to him and told him things that were contrary to the Christianity I practice. I don't believe the miracles some attribute to him. I don't go around telling the Muslims that I work with that they believe in fairy tales and that my "sky daddy" can beat up their "sky daddy". Why? Because I'm not an bunghole. The world is big enough for them to believe what they want and me to believe what I want. So what are you gonna do if Islam turns out to be the one true religion? What makes Biblical stories more true than the Islamic ones? How do you know the stories of Muhammad are fiction but the stories of Jesus are the truth? I have to admit, your replies are, at the very least, entertaining. Do you speak like this without a computer? If you were in a classroom, or on a discussion panel, even the dinner table, would you broach this issue the same way with a similar group of people? What if you were at a table with a muslim, a christian, a catholic, a protestant and a jewish person? Would you talk like you type? Would you tell them they needed psychiatric help? Good job side stepping my statements. Out of all the replies, yours are the most laughable. I'm sorry, I can't take anything you say seriously. I will no longer be replying to any more of your posts as I fee I am arguing with a first grader. You could just say, I don't believe in God instead of saying "Sky Daddy" and you could say I don't believe the Bible is true, or I don't believe in Christianity instead of just saying fairly tales. You use those words because you know they are inflammatory and will get a reaction from people and hopefully offend them. You don't deliberately try to offend people you are trying to have a civil debate with. Which is the core of the problem. You aren't interested in civil debate or discussion and it shows by your terminology and inability to even consider why someone does believe because you have deemed all religion stupid and all who take part in it as lesser individuals. I'm just calling a spade a spade. Do you tell everyone you disagree with to seek psychiatric help?
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Dec 7, 2013 12:32:47 GMT -5
Go read my rebuttal to MarkW on getting rid of religion. Make people realize their ability to work together & create even greater feelings of fulfillment, & they will put the religion away by themselves. Moving on, You really think I'm not trying to abolish the corruption of governments as well? The goal of a true philosopher is to bring full clarity to their universe. This requires deciding all attempts to justify one's actions, which if done properly, would enlighten anyone moral enough to refrain from serving such madmen. A dictator is only as powerful as the number of men dumb enough to die for him. Religion already does all of those things. Religion makes people realize their ability to work together and creates feelings of fulfillment. That is one function of religion. So you're calling to scrap one system for something that does the same thing. Makes no sense. No it DOESN'T. A system based in lies & mysticism is inferior to a system that thrives by reason, & justice. They require you to believe that you are born into sin & impurity, to dispise your body, & that you're only good when you let God "Heal" you. People work together religiously about as well as two penises accomplish impregnating one of the partners. Every church of every kind is teaming with dysfunction, corruption, & political lobbying. Considering that Christianity is split up into enough denominations, that if you created a pie chart including them all, you would have to cut it up into three normal side pieces alongside more than a dozen slivers, I'm fairly confident that religions aren't exactly the "Ultimate glue of the human social structure". It's odd how you're calling for sensibility when you worship an allegedly illogical being, & require no lo logic of yourself, only faith.
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Post by Tim of thee on Dec 7, 2013 12:40:43 GMT -5
Go read my rebuttal to MarkW on getting rid of religion. Make people realize their ability to work together & create even greater feelings of fulfillment, & they will put the religion away by themselves. Moving on, You really think I'm not trying to abolish the corruption of governments as well? The goal of a true philosopher is to bring full clarity to their universe. This requires deciding all attempts to justify one's actions, which if done properly, would enlighten anyone moral enough to refrain from serving such madmen. A dictator is only as powerful as the number of men dumb enough to die for him. Religion already does all of those things. Religion makes people realize their ability to work together and creates feelings of fulfillment. That is one function of religion. So you're calling to scrap one system for something that does the same thing. Makes no sense. It's fascinating Hulk. Appearantly everything you believe in is a lie and you should be reeducated into thinking as they do.
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