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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Dec 7, 2013 12:41:31 GMT -5
So basically you have you nothing. I did the search and found the contradictions. You said any theist with half a brain can poke a million holes in them, so you be able to do that on the spot without have to do a search, right? So please, PLEASE make an attempt to disprove these contradictions. And I don't hate all religious people, my mother and grandmother are religious, do I hate them? Obviously not. So what are you gonna do if Islam turns out to be the one true religion? What makes Biblical stories more true than the Islamic ones? How do you know the stories of Muhammad are fiction but the stories of Jesus are the truth? Good job side stepping my statements. Out of all the replies, yours are the most laughable. I'm sorry, I can't take anything you say seriously. I will no longer be replying to any more of your posts as I fee I am arguing with a first grader. I'm just calling a spade a spade. Do you tell everyone you disagree with to seek psychiatric help? As an avid student of psychology, psychiatry, & the mental sciences at large, I say this. If someone is mentally weak enough to feel the need for comfort from an idea that is basically an illusion in order to cope with existence, then yes. They do require a helping hand in learning to not allow fear of death, purposeless, & immorality ruin their lives. Religious practice is to a degree, the equivalent of "over the counter, quick-fix" drugs for one's soul. They don't really fix the problem, but rather numb the pain & allow the person to avoid it until the pain returns. When you discuss things with logical inference, you are attempting to engage in rehabilitative exercises for your consciousness. You brave the potential disappontments of reality & learn to thrive in SPITE of them. That's a defining feature of maturity. Choosing critical thinking over wishful thinking while doing your best to find the positives in life. |
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Post by Tim of thee on Dec 7, 2013 12:46:34 GMT -5
Do you tell everyone you disagree with to seek psychiatric help? As an avid student of psychology, psychiatry, & the mental sciences at large, I say this. If someone is mentally weak enough to feel the need for comfort from an idea that is basically an illusion in order to cope with existence, then yes. They do require a helping hand in learning to not allow fear of death, purposeless, & immorality ruin their lives. Religious practice is to a degree, the equivalent of "over the counter, quick-fix" drugs for one's soul. They don't really fix the problem, but rather numb the pain & allow the person to avoid it until the pain returns. When you discuss things with logical inference, you are attempting to engage in rehabilitative exercises for your consciousness. You brave the potential disappontments of reality & learn to thrive in SPITE of them. That's a defining feature of maturity. Choosing critical thinking over wishful thinking while doing your best to find the positives in life. Disagree. But maybe I need to be reeducated for seeing the world differently. |
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Post by Markw on Dec 7, 2013 12:51:12 GMT -5
Do you tell everyone you disagree with to seek psychiatric help? As an avid student of psychology, psychiatry, & the mental sciences at large, I say this. If someone is mentally weak enough to feel the need for comfort from an idea that is basically an illusion in order to cope with existence, then yes. They do require a helping hand in learning to not allow fear of death, purposeless, & immorality ruin their lives. Religious practice is to a degree, the equivalent of "over the counter, quick-fix" drugs for one's soul. They don't really fix the problem, but rather numb the pain & allow the person to avoid it until the pain returns. When you discuss things with logical inference, you are attempting to engage in rehabilitative exercises for your consciousness. You brave the potential disappontments of reality & learn to thrive in SPITE of them. That's a defining feature of maturity. Choosing critical thinking over wishful thinking while doing your best to find the positives in life. I highly doubt that a persons religious beliefs have a huge bearing on their mental health. I'm an atheist but I don't feel particularly able to 'brave the potential disappointments of reality' and I certainly don't feel able to 'thrive in spite of them', but I'm sure plenty of religious people do. You study psychology, is there any actual evidence to suggest that Religious people are less happy and less mentally stable than atheists? |
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Dec 7, 2013 14:48:08 GMT -5
Religion already does all of those things. Religion makes people realize their ability to work together and creates feelings of fulfillment. That is one function of religion. So you're calling to scrap one system for something that does the same thing. Makes no sense. It's fascinating Hulk. Appearantly everything you believe in is a lie and you should be reeducated into thinking as they do. I'm packing my bags for the camp right now. Sent from my Nexus 10 using proboards |
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Post by Lord Ragnarok on Dec 7, 2013 14:49:23 GMT -5
So basically you have you nothing. I did the search and found the contradictions. You said any theist with half a brain can poke a million holes in them, so you be able to do that on the spot without have to do a search, right? So please, PLEASE make an attempt to disprove these contradictions. And I don't hate all religious people, my mother and grandmother are religious, do I hate them? Obviously not. So what are you gonna do if Islam turns out to be the one true religion? What makes Biblical stories more true than the Islamic ones? How do you know the stories of Muhammad are fiction but the stories of Jesus are the truth? Good job side stepping my statements. Out of all the replies, yours are the most laughable. I'm sorry, I can't take anything you say seriously. I will no longer be replying to any more of your posts as I fee I am arguing with a first grader. I'm just calling a spade a spade. Do you tell everyone you disagree with to seek psychiatric help? No. Just the ones that still believe in childish fairy tales. Religion already does all of those things. Religion makes people realize their ability to work together and creates feelings of fulfillment. That is one function of religion. So you're calling to scrap one system for something that does the same thing. Makes no sense. No it DOESN'T. A system based in lies & mysticism is inferior to a system that thrives by reason, & justice.
They require you to believe that you are born into sin & impurity, to dispise your body, & that you're only good when you let God "Heal" you. People work together religiously about as well as two penises accomplish impregnating one of the partners. Every church of every kind is teaming with dysfunction, corruption, & political lobbying. Considering that Christianity is split up into enough denominations, that if you created a pie chart including them all, you would have to cut it up into three normal side pieces alongside more than a dozen slivers, I'm fairly confident that religions aren't exactly the "Ultimate glue of the human social structure". It's odd how you're calling for sensibility when you worship an allegedly illogical being, & require no lo logic of yourself, only faith.  Well said my friend, well said. Do you tell everyone you disagree with to seek psychiatric help? As an avid student of psychology, psychiatry, & the mental sciences at large, I say this. If someone is mentally weak enough to feel the need for comfort from an idea that is basically an illusion in order to cope with existence, then yes. They do require a helping hand in learning to not allow fear of death, purposeless, & immorality ruin their lives. Religious practice is to a degree, the equivalent of "over the counter, quick-fix" drugs for one's soul. They don't really fix the problem, but rather numb the pain & allow the person to avoid it until the pain returns. When you discuss things with logical inference, you are attempting to engage in rehabilitative exercises for your consciousness. You brave the potential disappontments of reality & learn to thrive in SPITE of them. That's a defining feature of maturity. Choosing critical thinking over wishful thinking while doing your best to find the positives in life. You have become my favorite member here. As an avid student of psychology, psychiatry, & the mental sciences at large, I say this. If someone is mentally weak enough to feel the need for comfort from an idea that is basically an illusion in order to cope with existence, then yes. They do require a helping hand in learning to not allow fear of death, purposeless, & immorality ruin their lives. Religious practice is to a degree, the equivalent of "over the counter, quick-fix" drugs for one's soul. They don't really fix the problem, but rather numb the pain & allow the person to avoid it until the pain returns. When you discuss things with logical inference, you are attempting to engage in rehabilitative exercises for your consciousness. You brave the potential disappontments of reality & learn to thrive in SPITE of them. That's a defining feature of maturity. Choosing critical thinking over wishful thinking while doing your best to find the positives in life. Disagree. But maybe I need to be reeducated for seeing the world differently. No. You would just need psychiatric treatment for still believing in fairy tales as an adult. As an avid student of psychology, psychiatry, & the mental sciences at large, I say this. If someone is mentally weak enough to feel the need for comfort from an idea that is basically an illusion in order to cope with existence, then yes. They do require a helping hand in learning to not allow fear of death, purposeless, & immorality ruin their lives. Religious practice is to a degree, the equivalent of "over the counter, quick-fix" drugs for one's soul. They don't really fix the problem, but rather numb the pain & allow the person to avoid it until the pain returns. When you discuss things with logical inference, you are attempting to engage in rehabilitative exercises for your consciousness. You brave the potential disappontments of reality & learn to thrive in SPITE of them. That's a defining feature of maturity. Choosing critical thinking over wishful thinking while doing your best to find the positives in life. I'm an atheist but I don't feel particularly able to 'brave the potential disappointments of reality' and I certainly don't feel able to 'thrive in spite of them', but I'm sure plenty of religious people do. You study psychology, is there any actual evidence to suggest that Religious people are less happy and less mentally stable than atheists? Absolutely it does. I was raised a Christian and the thought of going to hell terrified me, especially as a child. I was also told that because my aunt and grandmother were Catholic that they would go to hell too. I was also constantly told that the world was going to end during my lifetime and that it would happen real soon. Do you have any idea how much this  ed with my head? No, you don't, so don't go making assumptions for things you know nothing about. I had to get psychiatric treatment because of these fears. Also, I would have night terrors where I thought I was being possessed by demons and terrible nightmares about the end of the world and hell. And for the longest time I was terrified that I had committed the unforgivable sin and was doomed to go to hell. I was a victim of Childhood Indoctrination and all these things really ed with my head. I've had chronic anxiety and depression because of religion and I know I'm not the only one. Anxiety because of the possibility of spending an eternity in hell and depression because I thought those that I love would go to hell for not being Christian and that the end of the world was imminent. There are a lot of kids that are or were victims of Childhood Indoctrination. Telling a child that they will suffer an eternity in hell if they don't believe in a mythological sky daddy is child abuse, plain and simple. Childhood Indoctrination is what concerns me the most and is one of the main reason I abhor and stand up against religion. After hearing what I went through, maybe now you people will understand why I am against religion. And you wanna know something else? Since converting to Atheism my anxiety and depression are pretty much non existent and I no longer have nightmares or night terrors and my life and mental health have improved greatly. The one thing that bothers me is that my mother puts a mythological hippie zombie first in her life and me second. My mother loves me a lot, but it still really hurts that she feels that way. I do sound naive the way my response was written, but there have been many cases of people getting away with audacities against humanity because their religion allegedly, justified those actions. The only reason men are allowed to gentially, mutilate women in various African societies without suffering death by firing squad, is because that is a religious practice. So in a direct & at othertimes indirect way, the justification is responsible for the creation of the occurrence. If you waved a magic wand and got rid of religion, people would still do the same thing, they'd just find other ways to justify it. Stalin killed hundreds of millions of people in the name of the State, not religion. That's just one example. Yes it is. You'd have to be really delusional to believe otherwise. Go read my rebuttal to MarkW on getting rid of religion. Make people realize their ability to work together & create even greater feelings of fulfillment, & they will put the religion away by themselves. Moving on, You really think I'm not trying to abolish the corruption of governments as well? The goal of a true philosopher is to bring full clarity to their universe. This requires deciding all attempts to justify one's actions, which if done properly, would enlighten anyone moral enough to refrain from serving such madmen. A dictator is only as powerful as the number of men dumb enough to die for him. Religion already does all of those things. Religion makes people realize their ability to work together and creates feelings of fulfillment. That is one function of religion. So you're calling to scrap one system for something that does the same thing. Makes no sense. You know what really doesn't make any sense? All those Bible verses that contradict each other.  |
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Post by Weemanv1 on Dec 7, 2013 14:57:01 GMT -5
I love threads like these. It makes me realize just how miserable and hateful some people are. I'm glad I don't associate with them. I don't need people who try to instigate fights in my life. It's definitely sad to see people go through life like that.
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Post by Lord Ragnarok on Dec 7, 2013 14:59:07 GMT -5
I love threads like these. It makes me realize just how miserable and hateful some people are. I'm glad I don't associate with them. I don't need people who try to instigate fights in my life. It's definitely sad to see people go through life like that. You love threads like these, yet it makes you sad to see people have miserable and hateful lives. Okay then. |
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Post by Weemanv1 on Dec 7, 2013 15:03:23 GMT -5
I love threads like these. It makes me realize just how miserable and hateful some people are. I'm glad I don't associate with them. I don't need people who try to instigate fights in my life. It's definitely sad to see people go through life like that. You love threads like these, yet it makes you sad to see people have miserable and hateful lives. Okay then. It makes me realize who to and not to associate with, hence I like them. It makes me feel sad to see people going through life so miserably though. It's not a contradiction. I just enjoy making new friends. |
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Post by Lord Ragnarok on Dec 7, 2013 15:05:56 GMT -5
You love threads like these, yet it makes you sad to see people have miserable and hateful lives. Okay then. It makes me realize who to and not to associate with, hence I like them. It makes me feel sad to see people going through life so miserably though. It's not a contradiction. I just enjoy making new friends. Yes, I was very miserable when my parents shoved religion down my throat. But since converting my life is much better and I am no longer miserable. |
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Dec 7, 2013 15:18:59 GMT -5
As an avid student of psychology, psychiatry, & the mental sciences at large, I say this. If someone is mentally weak enough to feel the need for comfort from an idea that is basically an illusion in order to cope with existence, then yes. They do require a helping hand in learning to not allow fear of death, purposeless, & immorality ruin their lives. Religious practice is to a degree, the equivalent of "over the counter, quick-fix" drugs for one's soul. They don't really fix the problem, but rather numb the pain & allow the person to avoid it until the pain returns. When you discuss things with logical inference, you are attempting to engage in rehabilitative exercises for your consciousness. You brave the potential disappointments of reality & learn to thrive in SPITE of them. That's a defining feature of maturity. Choosing critical thinking over wishful thinking while doing your best to find the positives in life. I highly doubt that a persons religious beliefs have a huge bearing on their mental health. I'm an atheist but I don't feel particularly able to 'brave the potential disappointments of reality' and I certainly don't feel able to 'thrive in spite of them', but I'm sure plenty of religious people do. You study psychology, is there any actual evidence to suggest that Religious people are less happy and less mentally stable than atheists? Here's the issue. Atheists(Vocal ones anyways) comprise a minority in relation to the total number of people who practice what they describe as a religion. It's a state vs a continent, if you will in terms of size difference. This means that any comparisons between the two will most likely fail to accurately depict the groups. If you use religion to cope with the fears of reality, it's because you have mental weakness. I'm not, nor have I ever claimed that Christians are intellectually- disabled as everyone else in this thread has. However, all passionate theologians, religious practitioners, & adamant believers show symptoms of a cognitive dissonance. A form of neurological malfunction/incoherence. The more passionately you hold to your system, the more you consciously ignore logical inference. This is generally caused by fear. The emotion of ignorance. All fear comes from one's lack of knowing & one's exaggeration of that which they are aware. This doesn't mean that a person who doesn't believe in religions of any kind is by default mentally healthier than a religious person. As I said with Newton. He was a genius, but he wasn't technically religious considering that the theory of God was a legitimate theory of explaining the universe during his lifetime. |
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Post by Weemanv1 on Dec 7, 2013 15:26:18 GMT -5
It makes me realize who to and not to associate with, hence I like them. It makes me feel sad to see people going through life so miserably though. It's not a contradiction. I just enjoy making new friends. Yes, I was very miserable when my parents shoved religion down my throat. But since converting my life is much better and I am no longer miserable. Hey, I'm not naming names here and I was never speaking of you. For the record, I'm not against most of your points since I've been an agnostic for most of my life. |
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Post by GBGav on Dec 7, 2013 15:27:19 GMT -5
I love threads like these. It makes me realize just how miserable and hateful some people are. I'm glad I don't associate with them. I don't need people who try to instigate fights in my life. It's definitely sad to see people go through life like that. That statement can apply to both religious and non religious people, but that's not why I quoted you. The quote in your sig is what interested me. It assumes that the God that you could one day stand in front of is one that accepts people into heaven simply for believing. What if it is the God of the old testament, Yahweh, who was pretty much a giant jealous, possessive, intolerant dickbag? What if the God is a scientist (he'd have to be in order to create such a complex universe. But that raises further questions because the creator of a complex system would have to be a complex system himself who cannot have simply just occurred. Who or what created God?) This scientific God may only reward those who did not blindly believe in him, but actually used reason and logic to deduce that he probably does not exist. When questioned why I thought he did not exist I could respond "Not enough evidence, God. Not enough evidence." He could be pleased that I was honest and sought for scientific truth, much like his own mindset. It may be that the God only admits those who led a good life, regardless of faith or not. What right does a drug using, alchoholic, woman beating murderer who found God in prison have to be deemed acceptable into heaven over someone who partook in none of those things but was a kind person, gave to charity and led a clean lifestyle? Why does that person go to hell for not believing? We only have this one life so why waste so much time devoting yourself to something that is highly illogical when you can just simply "be nice." We'd all have such a grand time and would have no fear of hell if God ended up being real after all. Create your heaven while you can on this earth, not in the hope of something that might come after it. |
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Post by Weemanv1 on Dec 7, 2013 15:46:00 GMT -5
I love threads like these. It makes me realize just how miserable and hateful some people are. I'm glad I don't associate with them. I don't need people who try to instigate fights in my life. It's definitely sad to see people go through life like that. That statement can apply to both religious and non religious people, but that's not why I quoted you. The quote in your sig is what interested me. It assumes that the God that you could one day stand in front of is one that accepts people into heaven simply for believing. What if it is the God of the old testament, Yahweh, who was pretty much a giant jealous, possessive, intolerant dickbag? What if the God is a scientist (he'd have to be in order to create such a complex universe. But that raises further questions because the creator of a complex system would have to be a complex system himself who cannot have simply just occurred. Who or what created God?) This scientific God may only reward those who did not blindly believe in him, but actually used reason and logic to deduce that he probably does not exist. When questioned why I thought he did not exist I could respond "Not enough evidence, God. Not enough evidence." He could be pleased that I was honest and sought for scientific truth, much like his own mindset. It may be that the God only admits those who led a good life, regardless of faith or not. What right does a drug using, alchoholic, woman beating murderer who found God in prison have to be deemed acceptable into heaven over someone who partook in none of those things but was a kind person, gave to charity and led a clean lifestyle? Why does that person go to hell for not believing? We only have this one life so why waste so much time devoting yourself to something that is highly illogical when you can just simply "be nice." We'd all have such a grand time and would have no fear of hell if God ended up being real after all. Create your heaven while you can on this earth, not in the hope of something that might come after it. And that's why I have it as my sig because it is really an interesting thing to think about. Though, I do think a lot of the dirtbags that have gone to prison and found god know full well that they would be going to hell, but that's a little beside the point. I think the point of it all is that having faith can lead to contentness in one who is just so unsure. I do think that it wouldn't be right to be punished just for not believing as Dave sort of implied though. You're right in that if we could all just be nice to one another that everything would be so great. Unfortunately, I just don't see that ever happening. Even without religion, a lot of people are just...bad. It's a sad truth for sure. |
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Dec 7, 2013 17:18:15 GMT -5
Do you tell everyone you disagree with to seek psychiatric help? As an avid student of psychology, psychiatry, & the mental sciences at large, I say this. If someone is mentally weak enough to feel the need for comfort from an idea that is basically an illusion in order to cope with existence, then yes. They do require a helping hand in learning to not allow fear of death, purposeless, & immorality ruin their lives. Religious practice is to a degree, the equivalent of "over the counter, quick-fix" drugs for one's soul. They don't really fix the problem, but rather numb the pain & allow the person to avoid it until the pain returns. When you discuss things with logical inference, you are attempting to engage in rehabilitative exercises for your consciousness. You brave the potential disappontments of reality & learn to thrive in SPITE of them. That's a defining feature of maturity. Choosing critical thinking over wishful thinking while doing your best to find the positives in life. You do realize that according to you, 95% of humanity falls in this category right? |
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Post by Tim of thee on Dec 7, 2013 18:51:18 GMT -5
As an avid student of psychology, psychiatry, & the mental sciences at large, I say this. If someone is mentally weak enough to feel the need for comfort from an idea that is basically an illusion in order to cope with existence, then yes. They do require a helping hand in learning to not allow fear of death, purposeless, & immorality ruin their lives. Religious practice is to a degree, the equivalent of "over the counter, quick-fix" drugs for one's soul. They don't really fix the problem, but rather numb the pain & allow the person to avoid it until the pain returns. When you discuss things with logical inference, you are attempting to engage in rehabilitative exercises for your consciousness. You brave the potential disappontments of reality & learn to thrive in SPITE of them. That's a defining feature of maturity. Choosing critical thinking over wishful thinking while doing your best to find the positives in life. You do realize that according to you, 95% of humanity falls in this category right? Yes he does and he feels superior to them all. According to them and, there is no offense intended, we all need psychiatric help because we don't share the same idea of how the world is explained. Pack those bags Hulk. Share a cab? Wouldn't want two crazies on the road! |
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Post by slappy on Dec 7, 2013 18:52:45 GMT -5
Pack those bags Hulk. Share a cab? Wouldn't want two crazies on the road! I think renting a bus would be more environmentally friendly. |
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Post by charabro on Dec 7, 2013 18:56:53 GMT -5
Gonna stay out of this, part of my family is muslim.
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Post by Lord Ragnarok on Dec 7, 2013 19:42:20 GMT -5
As an avid student of psychology, psychiatry, & the mental sciences at large, I say this. If someone is mentally weak enough to feel the need for comfort from an idea that is basically an illusion in order to cope with existence, then yes. They do require a helping hand in learning to not allow fear of death, purposeless, & immorality ruin their lives. Religious practice is to a degree, the equivalent of "over the counter, quick-fix" drugs for one's soul. They don't really fix the problem, but rather numb the pain & allow the person to avoid it until the pain returns. When you discuss things with logical inference, you are attempting to engage in rehabilitative exercises for your consciousness. You brave the potential disappontments of reality & learn to thrive in SPITE of them. That's a defining feature of maturity. Choosing critical thinking over wishful thinking while doing your best to find the positives in life. You do realize that according to you, 95% of humanity falls in this category right? I'm still waiting for you to poke holes in my Bible contradictions post. Can't help but notice you keep sidestepping it. |
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Post by Tim of thee on Dec 7, 2013 19:43:38 GMT -5
Pack those bags Hulk. Share a cab? Wouldn't want two crazies on the road! I think renting a bus would be more environmentally friendly. I think trains would be more appropriate in this instance |
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Dec 7, 2013 21:00:37 GMT -5
As an avid student of psychology, psychiatry, & the mental sciences at large, I say this. If someone is mentally weak enough to feel the need for comfort from an idea that is basically an illusion in order to cope with existence, then yes. They do require a helping hand in learning to not allow fear of death, purposeless, & immorality ruin their lives. Religious practice is to a degree, the equivalent of "over the counter, quick-fix" drugs for one's soul. They don't really fix the problem, but rather numb the pain & allow the person to avoid it until the pain returns. When you discuss things with logical inference, you are attempting to engage in rehabilitative exercises for your consciousness. You brave the potential disappontments of reality & learn to thrive in SPITE of them. That's a defining feature of maturity. Choosing critical thinking over wishful thinking while doing your best to find the positives in life. You do realize that according to you, 95% of humanity falls in this category right? By claiming the number is 95%, you imply that everyone who claims to believe in God is completely honest & truly believe beyond all doubt, & never waver. That is not an accurate depiction of society. Secondly, according to you, we are ALL God's children & created in his image with no evidence to support it. Fear is a mental hinderence, from which we all suffer. Considering how much evil, illness, tragedy, & chaos runs roughshod across our history & all whom inhabit it both human & all coexisting creatures, what makes the idea that there is a mental defect affecting the majority of our species so bizarre to you? Virtually all humans suffer from inadequacy-complex, so yes. The idea that majority of the species share a common struggle that they must overcome together is immensely plausible, considering such things exist with abundant appearantness. |
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