if they would put a 2 or 3 year moratorium on cage matches,maybe give the WWE time to be a little less PG. then have a red-hot feud end in a cage match,and have someone get some color,I guarantee you people would mark the f#$k out,and make it feel special again! especially today's kids watching. they wouldn't know what to do!
it's funny. I'm going to a house show this Friday with my son,and one of the advertised matches is Big Show vs Kane. considering they've been doing this match for a few weeks now on the road in a cage,there's a better than average chance I will see my first cage match ever in person,so I should be excited! but I'm not,cause i know it won't be a real cage match. plus,you know,it's Show and Kane! not going to see any stellar,high-flying,death-defying moves or spots to make up for the lack of brutality!
in the meantime,my son is marking the hell out at the thought of a cage match.
You can't have a real cage match anymore because no one wants to get color anymore with the risks. It really is a lost art form.
Kinda sad really when you think about it.
Ross said it best when he mentioned the epidemic of STDs in the last two generations. Bleeding for your art is respectable, but NO one should be dumb enough to contract AIDS for or risk other people's health for it.
It's exactly why I'm apauled & embarassed by Abdullah the butcher's membership in any wrestling halls of fame.
I need one of those fancy pictures but forgot the code..
just because abdullah never had any 60 minute mat classics doesn't make him any less deserving of being recognized as a great preformer.
No it doesn't. It's his blatant disregard for storytelling, actually wrestling maneuvers, & the safety of others that makes him a putrid human being. He has given various wrestlers AIDS & bloodied countless men without their consent. He's a disgrace to all performers. Even the original Shiek & that's SAYING something.
He's never told a good story in his entire career, unless you find exhibitions of horror movie action scene, gore-based spot feats to be "Compelling, thespianistic ventures."....
I need one of those fancy pictures but forgot the code..
just because abdullah never had any 60 minute mat classics doesn't make him any less deserving of being recognized as a great preformer.
No it doesn't. It's his blatant disregard for storytelling, actually wrestling maneuvers, & the safety of others that makes him a putrid human being. He has given various wrestlers AIDS & bloodied countless men without their consent. He's a disgrace to all performers. Even the original Shiek & that's SAYING something.
He's never told a good story in his entire career, unless you find exhibitions of horror movie action scene, gore-based spot feats to be "Compelling, thespianistic ventures."....
Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Jan 9, 2014 5:27:28 GMT -5
Why haven't hipster wrestling fans developed a "Kayfabe counter culture" yet? Where you recognize your value as a Theateical element to the quality of the performance.
Imagine if fans thought it was cool to act like kayfabe fans. From the moment you're in the arena parking lot, you're committing to the character of being an educated, passionate fan from the 60s. Faces would be applauded, heels would get Nuclear heat, & everyone would be verbally dedicated upon when they displayed poor wrestling ability. When a wrestler won in spite of blowing the spot(s), fans would bombard them with ridiculing phrases such as "Fluke finish!", "Anyone can win with a dumb referee!", "Fast count!", or my favorite, "You stupid bum! That match was a fix! How dare you disgrace this SPORT by taking a dive!" in response to the clearly, superior wrestler whom somehow lost.
But.... The moment you left the arena, you went home & spoke as we normally do. It would make wrestling vastly more interesting. Especially if fans could somehow keep it a secret in order to flip the script on whose actually being worked. It would be stupendous.
I need one of those fancy pictures but forgot the code..
No it doesn't. It's his blatant disregard for storytelling, actually wrestling maneuvers, & the safety of others that makes him a putrid human being. He has given various wrestlers AIDS & bloodied countless men without their consent. He's a disgrace to all performers. Even the original Shiek & that's SAYING something.
He's never told a good story in his entire career, unless you find exhibitions of horror movie action scene, gore-based spot feats to be "Compelling, thespianistic ventures."....
I swear, NO ONE on this forum is better at working other members than me. I was preparing for such a response as I typed the insults towards his ability. Compared how bad he normally is, I'm actually quite happy to find such evidence of his ability. It makes me feel much better about people enjoying his work. However, his recklessness & disregard for the health of people hecworks with by stabbing them without permission is deplorable regardless.
I need one of those fancy pictures but forgot the code..
Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Jan 9, 2014 5:38:07 GMT -5
Allow me to correct myself. Hepatitis C is the disease Abdullah is confirmed to have & has given to other wrestlers through hopelessly, irresponsible behavior.
I need one of those fancy pictures but forgot the code..
Allow me to correct myself. Hepatitis C is the disease Abdullah is confirmed to have & has given to other wrestlers through hopelessly, irresponsible behavior.
Is it confirmed now? Last I heard he had yet to give a sample
Allow me to correct myself. Hepatitis C is the disease Abdullah is confirmed to have & has given to other wrestlers through hopelessly, irresponsible behavior.
Is it confirmed now? Last I heard he had yet to give a sample
Yes. As of last year, Larry Shreeve is a confirmed carrier of Hepatitis C & should be banned from cutting himself & others, if not banned from wrestling all together.
It turns out Hannibal is technically cured & on the road to preparing for a WWE tryout once he's back on his feet & scraped off the ring rust. I'm incredibly happy for him.
Is it confirmed now? Last I heard he had yet to give a sample
Yes. As of last year, Larry Shreeve is a confirmed carrier of Hepatitis C & should be banned from cutting himself & others, if not banned from wrestling all together.
It turns out Hannibal is technically cured & on the road to preparing for a WWE tryout once he's back on his feet & scraped off the ring rust. I'm incredibly happy for him.
Gagne also had a hand in training the Iron Sheik and Sgt Slaughter.
I swear. These are the moments where I just want to scream, because people say I'm not as knowledgable as I think I am, but I can't help that what I know.
He was in the same camp as Flair, Greg Gagne, Jim Brunzell, & Kem Patera.
Please tell me you also died laughing when saw photos of Slaughter during his early days as a Billy Graham knockoff.
Why haven't hipster wrestling fans developed a "Kayfabe counter culture" yet? Where you recognize your value as a Theateical element to the quality of the performance.
Imagine if fans thought it was cool to act like kayfabe fans. From the moment you're in the arena parking lot, you're committing to the character of being an educated, passionate fan from the 60s. Faces would be applauded, heels would get Nuclear heat, & everyone would be verbally dedicated upon when they displayed poor wrestling ability. When a wrestler won in spite of blowing the spot(s), fans would bombard them with ridiculing phrases such as "Fluke finish!", "Anyone can win with a dumb referee!", "Fast count!", or my favorite, "You stupid bum! That match was a fix! How dare you disgrace this SPORT by taking a dive!" in response to the clearly, superior wrestler whom somehow lost.
But.... The moment you left the arena, you went home & spoke as we normally do. It would make wrestling vastly more interesting. Especially if fans could somehow keep it a secret in order to flip the script on whose actually being worked. It would be stupendous.
My God, after our past interactions of disagreement, I finally totally agree with you on something!
I swear. These are the moments where I just want to scream, because people say I'm not as knowledgable as I think I am, but I can't help that what I know.
He was in the same camp as Flair, Greg Gagne, Jim Brunzell, & Kem Patera.
Please tell me you also died laughing when saw photos of Slaughter during his early days as a Billy Graham knockoff.
Woah, he was?
Shiek was part of the formal camp. Slaughter first showed up working as a journalist if I remember correctly, then he was granted permission to "fly around the ring" if you will, Verne saw a spark of talent, & after a few months as "Supersarge Slaughty Graham" as I have affectionately nicknamed him, the rest is history.
I need one of those fancy pictures but forgot the code..
Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Jan 10, 2014 20:31:57 GMT -5
Why are there so many fans who constantly spit venom towards established talents & only want to see new stars receive a push?
They act as though they dispise seeing anyone whose a veteran. Their lexicon consists solely of an obsessive, advocation of unproven or unestablished talent. "Push Gabriel, Ryder, "Insert rookie name here"!" etc.
These people seem to be imposing a non-sequitur. They only want new talent being pushed, & hate it when established wrestlers are given a push in any context, but what do they expect to happen when the rookies become the dynasties?
I understand that this is mildly exaggeratory, but I'm not articulate enough to convey the question with complete objectivity.
I need one of those fancy pictures but forgot the code..
Why are there so many fans who constantly spit venom towards established talents & only want to see new stars receive a push?
They act as though they dispise seeing anyone whose a veteran. Their lexicon consists solely of an obsessive, advocation of unproven or unestablished talent. "Push Gabriel, Ryder, "Insert rookie name here"!" etc.
These people seem to be imposing a non-sequitur. They only want new talent being pushed, & hate it when established wrestlers are given a push in any context, but what do they expect to happen when the rookies become the dynasties?
I understand that this is mildly exaggeratory, but I'm not articulate enough to convey the question with complete objectivity.
The only reasoning that I can come up with is that they are either legitimately THAT bored with the established stars (which I highly doubt), or it's out of some hipster-ish wish to support a guy from as early as possible and be able to brag to everyone else that, "I was his biggest fan before all of you. You're just band-wagoners. You're not a real fan like I am. Etc..."
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be.
Another one-off question: Do you ever look at a wrestler, find out who is credited as their primary mentor & find yourself shocked & disillusioned with your discovery?
I ask this with a particular reference in mind. Haku & Rick Stiener were both trained by Harley Race. Now I understand the story behind Haku's affiliation & even see part of it in his style, but Steiner just shocked me. This means two of the most overlooked tough men in wrestling history each have a training lineage beginning with Stanislaus & Wladek Zybysko. That's crazier than Damien Sandow having his lineage traced back to someone who wrestled Bill Muldoon!
Superstar Billy Graham & Stu Hart is arguably the most surprising. Sadly Graham retained little to nothing of what he learned, & Hart didn't show him much to begin with other than demonstrating legitimate holds... on Graham.
My favorite is the story of the duo that technically makes Verne Gagne the most successful trainer in the history of in-ring Vaudeville. He trained Hulk Hogan AND Ric Flair during their earliest years.
If coaches earned royalty checks off the wrestlers they taught, Gagne could have supported the AWA to this very hour & buy himself a platinum tombstone.
Brilliant thread my friend just one issue I noticed. Verne Gagne didn't train Hogan Hiro Matsuda did. Other than that great thread
Complaining about the WWE's product but continuing to watch. Is as dumb as eating at a restaurant that keeps giving you diarrhea.
Another one-off question: Do you ever look at a wrestler, find out who is credited as their primary mentor & find yourself shocked & disillusioned with your discovery?
I ask this with a particular reference in mind. Haku & Rick Stiener were both trained by Harley Race. Now I understand the story behind Haku's affiliation & even see part of it in his style, but Steiner just shocked me. This means two of the most overlooked tough men in wrestling history each have a training lineage beginning with Stanislaus & Wladek Zybysko. That's crazier than Damien Sandow having his lineage traced back to someone who wrestled Bill Muldoon!
Superstar Billy Graham & Stu Hart is arguably the most surprising. Sadly Graham retained little to nothing of what he learned, & Hart didn't show him much to begin with other than demonstrating legitimate holds... on Graham.
My favorite is the story of the duo that technically makes Verne Gagne the most successful trainer in the history of in-ring Vaudeville. He trained Hulk Hogan AND Ric Flair during their earliest years.
If coaches earned royalty checks off the wrestlers they taught, Gagne could have supported the AWA to this very hour & buy himself a platinum tombstone.
Brilliant thread my friend just one issue I noticed. Verne Gagne didn't train Hogan Hiro Matsuda did. Other than that great thread
I already went over this with Mikey1974. I was referring to Verne as his most significant mentor because he told Hogan to "Never go off his feet" as well as several pieces of instruction that laid the foundation for his "Superman" persona.
I need one of those fancy pictures but forgot the code..
Why are there so many fans who constantly spit venom towards established talents & only want to see new stars receive a push?
They act as though they dispise seeing anyone whose a veteran. Their lexicon consists solely of an obsessive, advocation of unproven or unestablished talent. "Push Gabriel, Ryder, "Insert rookie name here"!" etc.
These people seem to be imposing a non-sequitur. They only want new talent being pushed, & hate it when established wrestlers are given a push in any context, but what do they expect to happen when the rookies become the dynasties?
I understand that this is mildly exaggeratory, but I'm not articulate enough to convey the question with complete objectivity.
The only reasoning that I can come up with is that they are either legitimately THAT bored with the established stars (which I highly doubt), or it's out of some hipster-ish wish to support a guy from as early as possible and be able to brag to everyone else that, "I was his biggest fan before all of you. You're just band-wagoners. You're not a real fan like I am. Etc..."
That's an immensely well thought out assessment. Such a thought completely escaped me. 8\ I bet people think the same thing when I talk about first liking Bryan Danielson in 2005 from his matches on YouTube. Considering I was so sheltered, that I had no awareness of the band Europe before I watched his matches, that says more about my ignorance than it does my lack of dishonesty.
Thank you sharing that!
I need one of those fancy pictures but forgot the code..
I think it's because the wrestling industry is constantly evolving,and it always,eventually,has to have the "next generation" of talent get ready to step up and take the place of the current generation. but when that current generation sticks around for awhile,the problems happen. part of it is boredom,but most of it is this perceived notion of a glass ceiling,and the current (at the time) top guys being unwilling to step down and let a new crop of stars try and rise to the top. sometimes this IS valid - see WCW in the mid to late 90's - and it ends up hurting the promotion in the end. to a certain degree WWE was guilty of this too during the mid 2000's - early 2010's ,as they weren't concerned about getting the next group ready,but about maintaing who they had at the top IN those top level positions. and fans farted on it. your always going to need youth stepping up to take the place of the aging stars at some point,but when that point seems to take a long time,that's when the fans start turning on the established,veteran guys,and want the newer,younger guys to be able to step up.