El Armbar
Mid-Carder
Let's Go SeeeeNAAAAAA!
Joined on: Oct 22, 2012 18:22:21 GMT -5
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Post by El Armbar on Jun 10, 2014 23:26:09 GMT -5
Cena is great, he is always entertaining for me, he doesn´t need to evolve, and if Cena refuses to put someone over then so be it, the guy is a veteran, he knows his stuff, CM Punk, Edge, Orton, RVD, Daniel Bryan all those guys were elevated to main event status by feuding Cena. Barret, Sandow, Ziggler, Miz, Ryder were all mediocre at best, thats why they couldn´t move into the main picture by feuding(or being helped by) Cena, they just didn´t have "it", it´s hilarious that some people still think Cena is some kind of tyrant, Daniel Bryan would have lost the SummerSlam match if that was true and the Orton cash in would still have happened. Now I am not a fan of Wyatt but I can´t judge his feud with Cena until it´s over. Well, I guess you don't know talent. That's 2 elite level mic workers, that can hold their own in the ring. Please explain to me how either of their feuds with Cena were supposed to elevate them? Sandow beat his ass with a chair, slammed him into a barricade, and steps, all after he came back with an injured arm and Superman wins after taking all that and all of Sandow's finishers. Barrett was leader of about 8-9 people and Cena came back and took every single one of them out, alone. Then literally buried Barrett with chairs and that was the end. Oh and Jericho and Edge both said Cena was being selfish when he went over at SS after taking a DDT on the floor. I think they gave Sandow the MIB briefcase hoping to elevate his character. I don't recall too many cash-in teases while he had it, I mostly remember his feud with Cody Rhodes. I think by the time he cashed in the briefcase, WWE realized there wasn't much "money" in a Sandow vs. Cena feud. Obviously, the big plan was to unify the titles soon after. The Nexus vs. Cena storyline put Wade Barrett on the map. And for a long time, he was the only Nexus member to have some success after the group. The Nexus angle ran its course. And Bad New Barrett is much more entertaining than any other version of his character. At the time, it was too risky to have someone like Sandow or Barrett to beat your top guy. I don't know if a win over Cena guarantees future success, and it could weaken Cena's character. I'm sure there are other guys that the WWE should've given the opportunity but Sandow and Barrett weren't ready at the time. |
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Post by rustyy on Jun 10, 2014 23:51:12 GMT -5
Well, I guess you don't know talent. That's 2 elite level mic workers, that can hold their own in the ring. Please explain to me how either of their feuds with Cena were supposed to elevate them? Sandow beat his ass with a chair, slammed him into a barricade, and steps, all after he came back with an injured arm and Superman wins after taking all that and all of Sandow's finishers. Barrett was leader of about 8-9 people and Cena came back and took every single one of them out, alone. Then literally buried Barrett with chairs and that was the end. Oh and Jericho and Edge both said Cena was being selfish when he went over at SS after taking a DDT on the floor. Dude, not everyone is gonna like the same things you do, thats the way the world is, thats not reason to judge my liking of talents. Barrett wasn't ready then, selfishness or not, that's their point of view, if they can hold their own in the ring is irrelevant, it´s about connecting with the audience, and they failed at that, Sandow should have tried to evolve his character but he didn´t instead now he doesn't even have his old midcardy gimmick anymore, he´s just doing random things and it´s sad. Oh And I dont remember Cena no selling, hurting Punk or Edge´s carrers...why? Because they found creative ways to connect with the audience in their respective roles and storylines. I'm not asking you too, but to say they are mediocre is ludicrous. They could be top guys, upper mid card to main event. It's Sandow's fault that creative booked him like crapand made his genius character look like an idiot against guys like Sheamus and Cody? How exactly are you supposed to evolve in current WWE where everything you say and do is micromanaged? Barrett was ready, he connected and was red hot till that feud. Well, I guess you don't know talent. That's 2 elite level mic workers, that can hold their own in the ring. Please explain to me how either of their feuds with Cena were supposed to elevate them? Sandow beat his ass with a chair, slammed him into a barricade, and steps, all after he came back with an injured arm and Superman wins after taking all that and all of Sandow's finishers. Barrett was leader of about 8-9 people and Cena came back and took every single one of them out, alone. Then literally buried Barrett with chairs and that was the end. Oh and Jericho and Edge both said Cena was being selfish when he went over at SS after taking a DDT on the floor. I think they gave Sandow the MIB briefcase hoping to elevate his character. I don't recall too many cash-in teases while he had it, I mostly remember his feud with Cody Rhodes. I think by the time he cashed in the briefcase, WWE realized there wasn't much "money" in a Sandow vs. Cena feud. Obviously, the big plan was to unify the titles soon after. The Nexus vs. Cena storyline put Wade Barrett on the map. And for a long time, he was the only Nexus member to have some success after the group. The Nexus angle ran its course. And Bad New Barrett is much more entertaining than any other version of his character. At the time, it was too risky to have someone like Sandow or Barrett to beat your top guy. I don't know if a win over Cena guarantees future success, and it could weaken Cena's character. I'm sure there are other guys that the WWE should've given the opportunity but Sandow and Barrett weren't ready at the time. Sandow was made to look like a fool against Cody and in return devalued the briefcase. If they wanted Cody to come out on top so bad, then he should have just won it and been bland as ever holding a big blue box. Are you going to tell me that Sandow/Orton wouldn't have been more entertaining? Cena/Orton 2000 is not money anymore. No one wants to see that. They announced unification and that arena was silent because they knew it was gonna be 2 stale people, AGAIN. It put him on the map, as a guy who can't win anything even with 9 guys at his side. BNB is great, I'm glad he gets mic time but he's still recovering from 2010. I personally though Barrett was great with Nexus, I like serious characters. See, that's what's wrong with WWE. It's a risk, and god forbid golden boy take one and MAYBE just MAYBE put a new star on the map. When Cena retires WWE will not have a big star because everyone who gets big will eventually be fed to the eater of pushes and new lord of the shovel. Sandow was ready too, he was entertaining. And had they not made him look like a fool he would have been over too. |
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Thunder Chunky
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 1, 2010 21:57:30 GMT -5
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Post by Thunder Chunky on Jun 10, 2014 23:57:37 GMT -5
When did Cena admit he buried Barrett?
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Post by rustyy on Jun 11, 2014 0:00:50 GMT -5
When did Cena admit he buried Barrett? Jerichos podcast, he and edge were telling Cena the end of the match at summerslam was stupid with him getting DDTd on the floor and getting back up and beating Gabriel and wade and he didn't listen and went with it anyway. Then claimed he regretted it. Which I'm sure he didn't. And the literal burial was when Cena buried wade with chairs after their match. |
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Post by RybackV1 on Jun 11, 2014 0:02:26 GMT -5
HBK Cena was damn good. Loved that episode of WM rewind.
Angle vs Eddie is next week. That gon b goooooood
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El Armbar
Mid-Carder
Let's Go SeeeeNAAAAAA!
Joined on: Oct 22, 2012 18:22:21 GMT -5
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Post by El Armbar on Jun 11, 2014 0:27:06 GMT -5
Sandow was made to look like a fool against Cody and in return devalued the briefcase. If they wanted Cody to come out on top so bad, then he should have just won it and been bland as ever holding a big blue box. Are you going to tell me that Sandow/Orton wouldn't have been more entertaining? Cena/Orton 2000 is not money anymore. No one wants to see that. They announced unification and that arena was silent because they knew it was gonna be 2 stale people, AGAIN. It put him on the map, as a guy who can't win anything even with 9 guys at his side. BNB is great, I'm glad he gets mic time but he's still recovering from 2010. I personally though Barrett was great with Nexus, I like serious characters. See, that's what's wrong with WWE. It's a risk, and god forbid golden boy take one and MAYBE just MAYBE put a new star on the map. When Cena retires WWE will not have a big star because everyone who gets big will eventually be fed to the eater of pushes and new lord of the shovel. Sandow was ready too, he was entertaining. And had they not made him look like a fool he would have been over too. Sandow was always sort of a comedic heel. The result of his MIB cash-in probably has more to do with WWE's handling of the character leading up to the match rather than Cena's need to bury young wrestlers. Maybe I'm giving WWE's writers too much credit - in terms of planning ahead - but I think it was more meaningful to have two of the most decorated champions unify the titles leading up to Wrestlemania. But we all know how that turned out (ie. Bastista, Royal Rumble etc.) For better or worse, Cena's gonna stay on top until his shirts stop selling. I just think people are too quick to blame Cena every time their favorite wrestler is not put in the main event. The WWE has invested too much money in Cena to take a chance on a unproven wrestler. Plus, they've been burned a few times when they tried to make a new top guy (Jeff Hardy, CM Punk, Daniel Bryan's injury, Brock Lesnar leaving). |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2014 0:27:32 GMT -5
When did Cena admit he buried Barrett? Jerichos podcast, he and edge were telling Cena the end of the match at summerslam was stupid with him getting DDTd on the floor and getting back up and beating Gabriel and wade and he didn't listen and went with it anyway. Then claimed he regretted it. Which I'm sure he didn't. And the literal burial was when Cena buried wade with chairs after their match. Cena said he thought something he did in a match was stupid. You take that as Cena 'admitting he buried' Barrett? And you put that into the "DATA OF CENA'S REFUSALS AND PERSONAL GAINS THAT RUINED SOMEONE'S CAREER" because he took a stupid spot that nobody would have ever thought about until it was mentioned? If doing something stupid in a match is the new 'burying someone', then we probably see about 27 "burials" a week on Raw. |
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Post by rustyy on Jun 11, 2014 0:36:23 GMT -5
Sandow was made to look like a fool against Cody and in return devalued the briefcase. If they wanted Cody to come out on top so bad, then he should have just won it and been bland as ever holding a big blue box. Are you going to tell me that Sandow/Orton wouldn't have been more entertaining? Cena/Orton 2000 is not money anymore. No one wants to see that. They announced unification and that arena was silent because they knew it was gonna be 2 stale people, AGAIN. It put him on the map, as a guy who can't win anything even with 9 guys at his side. BNB is great, I'm glad he gets mic time but he's still recovering from 2010. I personally though Barrett was great with Nexus, I like serious characters. See, that's what's wrong with WWE. It's a risk, and god forbid golden boy take one and MAYBE just MAYBE put a new star on the map. When Cena retires WWE will not have a big star because everyone who gets big will eventually be fed to the eater of pushes and new lord of the shovel. Sandow was ready too, he was entertaining. And had they not made him look like a fool he would have been over too. Sandow was always sort of a comedic heel. The result of his MIB cash-in probably has more to do with WWE's handling of the character leading up to the match rather than Cena's need to bury young wrestlers. Maybe I'm giving WWE's writers too much credit - in terms of planning ahead - but I think it was more meaningful to have two of the most decorated champions unify the titles leading up to Wrestlemania. But we all know how that turned out (ie. Bastista, Royal Rumble etc.) For better or worse, Cena's gonna stay on top until his shirts stop selling. I just think people are too quick to blame Cena every time their favorite wrestler is not put in the main event. The WWE has invested too much money in Cena to take a chance on a unproven wrestler. Plus, they've been burned a few times when they tried to make a new top guy (Jeff Hardy, CM Punk, Daniel Bryan's injury, Brock Lesnar leaving). Yeah WWE may get burned from time to time but it's a business, risks need to be taken. If they didn't take a risk with Rocky Maivia and Ringmaster they wouldn't be in business today. Punk was midcarding before he left, Lesnar leaving they had to see coming, injuries happen and that's what they get for putting a cokehead on top. Jerichos podcast, he and edge were telling Cena the end of the match at summerslam was stupid with him getting DDTd on the floor and getting back up and beating Gabriel and wade and he didn't listen and went with it anyway. Then claimed he regretted it. Which I'm sure he didn't. And the literal burial was when Cena buried wade with chairs after their match. Cena said he thought something he did in a match was stupid. You take that as Cena 'admitting he buried' Barrett? And you put that into the "DATA OF CENA'S REFUSALS AND PERSONAL GAINS THAT RUINED SOMEONE'S CAREER" because he took a stupid spot that nobody would have ever thought about until it was mentioned? If doing something stupid in a match is the new 'burying someone', then we probably see about 27 "burials" a week on Raw. Are you saying Cena didn't bury Barrett? And it was stupid, it ruined Nexus and Wade Barrett. Where are all the Nexus members now? Dat rub. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2014 0:44:47 GMT -5
Sandow was always sort of a comedic heel. The result of his MIB cash-in probably has more to do with WWE's handling of the character leading up to the match rather than Cena's need to bury young wrestlers. Maybe I'm giving WWE's writers too much credit - in terms of planning ahead - but I think it was more meaningful to have two of the most decorated champions unify the titles leading up to Wrestlemania. But we all know how that turned out (ie. Bastista, Royal Rumble etc.) For better or worse, Cena's gonna stay on top until his shirts stop selling. I just think people are too quick to blame Cena every time their favorite wrestler is not put in the main event. The WWE has invested too much money in Cena to take a chance on a unproven wrestler. Plus, they've been burned a few times when they tried to make a new top guy (Jeff Hardy, CM Punk, Daniel Bryan's injury, Brock Lesnar leaving). Yeah WWE may get burned from time to time but it's a business, risks need to be taken. If they didn't take a risk with Rocky Maivia and Ringmaster they wouldn't be in business today. Punk was midcarding before he left, Lesnar leaving they had to see coming, injuries happen and that's what they get for putting a cokehead on top.  And do you really think any of the Nexus members had "it"? Barrett and Bryan are the best ones from that group. The rest are where they belong. Edit: I forgot about Wyatt, he is amazing. And forgot about Ryback too. I've always liked him and he has improved a lot recently with Axel. |
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Post by BØRNS on Jun 11, 2014 0:50:20 GMT -5
It's a fact that Cena does nothing to put others over. I also wanted to throw out there that in addition to this lovely HBK video, WWE everything in its power to pay retired wrestlers to come and put Cena over as the greatest of all time. Oh, of course, I forgot to add Hulk Hogan to the list. Let me update that!  Thanks, I think Jesse Ventura even came to Raw to put Cena over, too! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2014 0:55:20 GMT -5
just like Cena fans think it is sad that haters hate.
I find it sad that Cena fans can't accept that some people just don't like him.
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Post by rustyy on Jun 11, 2014 1:00:47 GMT -5
Yeah WWE may get burned from time to time but it's a business, risks need to be taken. If they didn't take a risk with Rocky Maivia and Ringmaster they wouldn't be in business today. Punk was midcarding before he left, Lesnar leaving they had to see coming, injuries happen and that's what they get for putting a cokehead on top. And do you really think any of the Nexus members had "it"? Barrett and Bryan are the best ones from that group. The rest are where they belong. Slater is hella entertaining, he could be a good mid card face, Otunga could have been a manager, Wyatt is doing amazing (Was before Cena), Darren Young was good with Titus, Gabriel was a good high flier, good for mid card, Ryback was decent They all had their place, but now they are all jobbers. Even Barrett will be a jobber when Vince decides he doesn't like him anymore, again. |
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El Armbar
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Joined on: Oct 22, 2012 18:22:21 GMT -5
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Post by El Armbar on Jun 11, 2014 1:23:41 GMT -5
I don't if I would consider anyone you see on RAW regularly a "jobber." Barry Horowitz and S.D. Jones might take offence to that. But it's too bad that RAW and Smackdown are so predictable nowadays; you know who's gonna lose when Ryder, Ziggler, Kofi or R-Truth are in a match. There is so much new WWE tv content each week, win & losses are almost meaningless. Rusev's current run would probably be a little more impressive if the guys he was beating actually won a match now and then.
As far as taking risks on Rocky Maivia and the Ringmaster, they were gradually built up with great midcard feuds until they were ready for the main event. They really caught on with the fans before they main-evented, I don't think you can compare Sandow and Barrett as far as crowd reaction during their fueds/matches with Cena. I don't think there was any doubt Austin & Rock were ready when they became #1 guys.
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Post by rustyy on Jun 11, 2014 1:29:55 GMT -5
I don't if I would consider anyone you see on RAW regularly a "jobber." Barry Horowitz and S.D. Jones might take offence to that. But it's too bad that RAW and Smackdown are so predictable nowadays; you know who's gonna lose when Ryder, Ziggler, Kofi or R-Truth are in a match. There is so much new WWE tv content each week, win & losses are almost meaningless. Rusev's current run would probably be a little more impressive if the guys he was beating actually won a match now and then. As far as taking risks on Rocky Maivia and the Ringmaster, they were gradually built up with great midcard feuds until they were ready for the main event. They really caught on with the fans before they main-evented, I don't think you can compare Sandow and Barrett as far as crowd reaction during their fueds/matches with Cena. I don't think there was any doubt Austin & Rock were ready when they became #1 guys. Before they turned him into the Rock there were "die rocky die" and Rocky sucks chants, I wouldn't really call that ready for anything other than a release from his contract. Barrett was so hot coming in, he had Nexus behind him, it was a stale time in WWE and the perfect time for a risk in making him WWE champ. Was Cena/Orton's 20th reign really that important that year? Or the MIZ? Really? |
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El Armbar
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Joined on: Oct 22, 2012 18:22:21 GMT -5
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Post by El Armbar on Jun 11, 2014 2:00:30 GMT -5
I don't if I would consider anyone you see on RAW regularly a "jobber." Barry Horowitz and S.D. Jones might take offence to that. But it's too bad that RAW and Smackdown are so predictable nowadays; you know who's gonna lose when Ryder, Ziggler, Kofi or R-Truth are in a match. There is so much new WWE tv content each week, win & losses are almost meaningless. Rusev's current run would probably be a little more impressive if the guys he was beating actually won a match now and then. As far as taking risks on Rocky Maivia and the Ringmaster, they were gradually built up with great midcard feuds until they were ready for the main event. They really caught on with the fans before they main-evented, I don't think you can compare Sandow and Barrett as far as crowd reaction during their fueds/matches with Cena. I don't think there was any doubt Austin & Rock were ready when they became #1 guys. Before they turned him into the Rock there were "die rocky die" and Rocky sucks chants, I wouldn't really call that ready for anything other than a release from his contract. Barrett was so hot coming in, he had Nexus behind him, it was a stale time in WWE and the perfect time for a risk in making him WWE champ. Was Cena/Orton's 20th reign really that important that year? Or the MIZ? Really? That's my point. Rocky wasn't put in the main event until he was white hot. Same with Austin. D-Bry and CM Punk were white hot when they beat John Cena. Sandow successfully cashing in on Cena would've been something memorable and shocking. But he wasn't hot enough to sustain it. But its unfair to compare Sandow & Barrett to WWE legends. I can't argue with with the Miz's title run & Cena/Orton. (Wait-I think I liked Miz as a heel champ; although WM27 would've been so much better minus Rock and plus Cena vs. Punk) I still haven't gone back to watch that TLC PPV with Cena vs. Orton. Thanks to the Network, I'm gonna watch those Barrett matches from 2010. Although I was at Summerslam 2010, I don't recall the type of reaction Nexus was getting. I think they were legitimately hated as heels, not like the Wyatts. I'll let you know if you were right about Barrett. But I expect I'll have some bad news for you. |
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Post by rustyy on Jun 11, 2014 2:07:29 GMT -5
Nexus were over, big time but when Cena got involved by joining and whooping them like little kids it all went down hill.
Look at the buzz their debut created. Wwe should have capitalized instead of making them jobbers. Would the shield be where they are today if they lost all the time?
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Post by BØRNS on Jun 11, 2014 2:52:40 GMT -5
Before they turned him into the Rock there were "die rocky die" and Rocky sucks chants, I wouldn't really call that ready for anything other than a release from his contract. Barrett was so hot coming in, he had Nexus behind him, it was a stale time in WWE and the perfect time for a risk in making him WWE champ. Was Cena/Orton's 20th reign really that important that year? Or the MIZ? Really? That's my point. Rocky wasn't put in the main event until he was white hot. Same with Austin. D-Bry and CM Punk were white hot when they beat John Cena. Sandow successfully cashing in on Cena would've been something memorable and shocking. But he wasn't hot enough to sustain it. But its unfair to compare Sandow & Barrett to WWE legends. I can't argue with with the Miz's title run & Cena/Orton. (Wait-I think I liked Miz as a heel champ; although WM27 would've been so much better minus Rock and plus Cena vs. Punk) I still haven't gone back to watch that TLC PPV with Cena vs. Orton. Thanks to the Network, I'm gonna watch those Barrett matches from 2010. Although I was at Summerslam 2010, I don't recall the type of reaction Nexus was getting. I think they were legitimately hated as heels, not like the Wyatts. I'll let you know if you were right about Barrett. But I expect I'll have some bad news for you. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2014 6:59:26 GMT -5
What does this have to do with Cena "refusing to put others over"? It's a fact that Cena does nothing to put others over. I also wanted to throw out there that in addition to this lovely HBK video, WWE everything in its power to pay retired wrestlers to come and put Cena over as the greatest of all time. Oh, of course, I forgot to add Hulk Hogan to the list. Let me update that! Yeah remember that time when Cena didn't lose to Daniel Bryan clean in the center of the ring at Summerslam |
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Jun 11, 2014 7:54:46 GMT -5
When are people finally going to get over this whole John Cena thing? Cena is a very good wrestler. Is he the greatest ever? No, but being over and being good isn't about being the greatest wrestler to ever step foot inside a ring. Dude has put on a ton of good matches and anyone that says he hasn't or "deeer he was carried" are being flat out ignorant. Cena is not going to turn heel or change. There's no need to try and fix something that's not broken. You might not enjoy it and might think its stale, but there's millions of people cheering him and buying his merch and wanting him for wishes that beg to differ. WWE is not going to change Cena when he works for millions to satisfy people on the internet that don't like mean ole Cena that are going to be satisfied with the change for 5 minutes before hating Cena again because he won a match. Also, people seem to forget that Cena IS THE BIGGEST NAME IN THE COMPANY and has been for a decade. Not Punk, not Bryan, not Ziggler, not Ryder, John Cena. Someone like that doesn't just drop falls to every Joe Blow that seems to have a slight hope of a future, because it actually makes it MEAN something and MATTER when he does lose. Would Daniel Bryan beating Cena have meant what it did if he had beaten Cena 7 times before that? Or if Cena had taken 27 losses prior to the match? How much would it have mattered if Cesaro beat Cena a few months back on Raw if he was immediately going to drop down and be feuding for the US Title because they weren't ready to push him yet? How much will it mean when Cesaro finally gears for the World Title and beats Cena and gets pushed even further? A lot more than beating him on a random Raw in a random match that doesn't mean anything, and a lot more than if he had beat him previously. Waaah, Cena buried Wyatt when he threw him off the top of something and trapped him under a pile of crap so he wouldn't be able to get up. Some of you really need to look up what buried means because its obvious you have no real clue what it actually means, because idk about you, but Wyatt looked just as over and just as pushed and just as good as before on Raw. So buried he was. Some of you really need to get over your little teenage rebellion hatered. It stopped being 'cool' or 'relevant' to hate Cena six or seven years ago. Then it started to be 'cool' and 'relevant' to respect the dude for being a good wrestler, a hard working and dedicated as hell mother  er that has dedicated his entire life and ruined his entire body by working through injuries the past 10 years to being the biggest star in wrestling and carrying all the weight that comes along with it, and for making hundreds of sick kids and millions of people happy. Seriously, get over it. Ranting hate about Cena filled with your opinions based on your 'insider super smart sheet knowledge' is a cliche that got tired six years ago and makes you seem like nothing but ignorant little 'rebel' that for some reason still thinks its cool to hate someone that legitimately deserves all the respect in the world for what he's done and given to the business. /thread. Seriously. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2014 8:10:47 GMT -5
I'm not sure where this thread went off the rails but I will just add this...
In 1996, WCW fans were getting tired of Hulk Hogan doing the same stuff he had done for (you guessed it) 12 years straight. They were sick of the prayers and vitamins. Hulk Hogan was the face of the company. WCW very easily could've played it safe, took zero chances and let him continue to hold his hand up to his ear for the rest of his career. However, someone thought outside of the box and realized the same old tiresome act was getting old and thus we got nWo and the biggest boom period in wrestling history.
Now, in 2014, some WWE fans are getting tired of John Cena doing the same stuff he's done for (yup) 12 years straight. They are sick of the rise above hate and hustle, loyalty, respect. John Cena is the face of the company. WWE very easily could play it safe, take zero chances and let him continue to wave his hand in front of his face for the rest of his career. However, someone should think outside of the box and realize the same old tiresome act is getting old.
Not saying Cena needs to turn heel. I'm just saying to give us some depth to his character. Give us more of a reason to care. Something. Anything.
Just something to think about...
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