|
Post by The Kevstaaa on Nov 13, 2015 10:47:54 GMT -5
He's great - loved him as Uhaa but on NXT... he's boring! What's his character? He can't just be nice guy who is quite athletic, it's weak and he'll suffer if they bring him up without that fully fledged character depth. He needs to be in a tag team or have some friends who turn on him - make him look vulnerable and unearth the beast in him that people can get behind as a face While I don't believe he's boring on NXT, I do agree on his character. I don't see him getting called up for a while and he can hopefully flesh out his character and develop it some more.
|
|
|
Post by Chip on Nov 13, 2015 11:42:01 GMT -5
I dunno. We'll see. Not sure why this has to turn into a discussion about race either. because everything does these days.... HOWEVER it's been pretty obvious for a number of years that the WWE has never had a true black WWE champion. strange too because WCW had no problems putting a guy like Booker T as their top draw, and they were based in the south, while the closest thing Vince has had to that is The Rock. you can say Booker & Mark Henry had their WHC runs, but it was pretty obvious that title was always a #2 behind the WWE title. they are the closest thing and have been treated pretty much the best out of every black guy who's been in the WWE. not to mention the other stereotypical gimmicks that have been given to black guys in the WWE (and spanish, and asian) they seem to be breaking out of that somewhat nowadays, but from Junkyard Dog to The Nation of Domination to Cryme Tyme, then guys like Lashley & Shelton Benjamin who were supremely talented but never able to get over that hump You had a guy like Ron Simmons who was pretty over in WCW and really influential, getting put in a ridiculous gladiator outfit and then turned into basically a black power leader then turned into a tag team wrestler. Not that he didn't have a successful career, but he was brought in as basically a joke, they just lucked out with the APA thing. Big E, Titus, Kofi...always been mid-card guys...i dont think its a legitimate "race" thing, but when stuff like this "adds up" people feel the need to jump all over it and say "vince hates black people" im not on that train, but i recognize the fact that there hasn't been a legitimate black WWE Champion ever and that's just WEIRD with the number of extremely talented black wrestlers who have stepped in that ring. so why would we think Crews will be any different.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: Oct 5, 2024 15:25:33 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2015 11:47:47 GMT -5
I dunno. We'll see. Not sure why this has to turn into a discussion about race either. because everything does these days.... HOWEVER it's been pretty obvious for a number of years that the WWE has never had a true black WWE champion. strange too because WCW had no problems putting a guy like Booker T as their top draw, and they were based in the south, while the closest thing Vince has had to that is The Rock. you can say Booker & Mark Henry had their WHC runs, but it was pretty obvious that title was always a #2 behind the WWE title. they are the closest thing and have been treated pretty much the best out of every black guy who's been in the WWE. not to mention the other stereotypical gimmicks that have been given to black guys in the WWE (and spanish, and asian) they seem to be breaking out of that somewhat nowadays, but from Junkyard Dog to The Nation of Domination to Cryme Tyme, then guys like Lashley & Shelton Benjamin who were supremely talented but never able to get over that hump You had a guy like Ron Simmons who was pretty over in WCW and really influential, getting put in a ridiculous gladiator outfit and then turned into basically a black power leader then turned into a tag team wrestler. Not that he didn't have a successful career, but he was brought in as basically a joke, they just lucked out with the APA thing. Big E, Titus, Kofi...always been mid-card guys...i dont think its a legitimate "race" thing, but when stuff like this "adds up" people feel the need to jump all over it and say "vince hates black people" im not on that train, but i recognize the fact that there hasn't been a legitimate black WWE Champion ever and that's just WEIRD with the number of extremely talented black wrestlers who have stepped in that ring. so why would we think Crews will be any different. Meh. I think it's all bull sh*t. Shelton Benjamin said on Jericho's recent podcast that when he started in WWE, he never thought he'd hold any belt other than the tag titles because that's the only belt he ever saw black wrestlers win. However, Ron Simmons won the WCW World title, Ahmed Johnson won the WWF IC title, Booker T had won the WCW World title, D'Lo Brown had been IC and European Champion (at the same time), etc. I just think a lot of it is overblown. Honestly, which black guy would've been world champion if they "weren't held down or given the chance"? Mark Henry was given a World title run, Booker T was given world title runs, Bobby Lashley was given a ECW title run, etc. Those guys all played "second fiddle" to other champions and stars because they weren't at their level. The same could be said for CM Punk's over year long title reign where he played second fiddle to John Cena and he's white. We need to look at the individual, not the race.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: Oct 5, 2024 15:25:33 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2015 12:07:43 GMT -5
I think Vince is scared to put HIS title on a black guy. Just my opinion though.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: Oct 5, 2024 15:25:33 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2015 12:11:41 GMT -5
Really not sure where you guys are getting this stuff. I'm not one to defend Vince but I really don't see this racism thing.
Which black guy would've been world champion that wasn't? I can't think of one.
It's simple math. There are less black people than white people in wrestling. Therefore, there's automatically less of a chance for a black wrestler to be the main star simply because there are less options.
If anything, I feel like Mark Henry, for example, was over pushed and given a World title run when he didn't necessarily deserve one.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: Oct 5, 2024 15:25:33 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2015 12:23:58 GMT -5
IMO this has nothing to do with race it's just a simple lack of different cultures and races not being represented for The WWE World Heavyweight champion.It's not just blacks but also latinos,Asian,etc I mean When's the last time we had an Asian WWE World Heavyweight champion? A Latino WWE World Heavyweight champion its not just a black thing.The talent is out there and I appreciate WWE signing so many people from a different Race.They do need to book them correctly because IMO I still think Big E would make a Great WWE World Heavyweight champion.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: Oct 5, 2024 15:25:33 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2015 12:31:12 GMT -5
So, we should make someone a world champion simply because of their race now?
Trust me, WWE and Vince McMahon, in particular, love money more than they care about any race issues.
When that next star comes, regardless of race, WWE will shove him or her down our throats to make that money.
|
|
|
Post by The Kevstaaa on Nov 13, 2015 12:38:43 GMT -5
IMO this has nothing to do with race it's just a simple lack of different cultures and races not being represented for The WWE World Heavyweight champion.It's not just blacks but also latinos,Asian,etc I mean When's the last time we had an Asian WWE World Heavyweight champion? A Latino WWE World Heavyweight champion its not just a black thing.The talent is out there and I appreciate WWE signing so many people from a different Race.They do need to book them correctly because IMO I still think Big E would make a Great WWE World Heavyweight champion. Eddie Guerrero was a Latino WWE Champion. As Bash said, I honestly can't remember a black or Asain guy that I thought was WWE Championship material. There is potential in Big E but he's still young so I'm not ruling him out.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: Oct 5, 2024 15:25:33 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2015 12:42:04 GMT -5
IMO this has nothing to do with race it's just a simple lack of different cultures and races not being represented for The WWE World Heavyweight champion.It's not just blacks but also latinos,Asian,etc I mean When's the last time we had an Asian WWE World Heavyweight champion? A Latino WWE World Heavyweight champion its not just a black thing.The talent is out there and I appreciate WWE signing so many people from a different Race.They do need to book them correctly because IMO I still think Big E would make a Great WWE World Heavyweight champion. Eddie Guerrero was a Latino WWE Champion. As Bash said, I honestly can't remember a black or Asain guy that I thought was WWE Championship material. There is potential in Big E but he's still young so I'm not ruling him out. So was Rey Mysterio...and Alberto Del Rio. Doesn't Antonio Inoki have some sort of botched World title reign too? Khali is from India...which is also in Asia...and he has a world title reign. Try again.
|
|
|
Post by The Kevstaaa on Nov 13, 2015 12:43:27 GMT -5
Eddie Guerrero was a Latino WWE Champion. As Bash said, I honestly can't remember a black or Asain guy that I thought was WWE Championship material. There is potential in Big E but he's still young so I'm not ruling him out. So was Rey Mysterio...and Alberto Del Rio. Doesn't Antonio Inoki have some sort of botched World title reign too? Khali is from India...which is also in Asia...and he has a world title reign. Try again. Hey, I was agreeing with you.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: Oct 5, 2024 15:25:33 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2015 12:46:17 GMT -5
So was Rey Mysterio...and Alberto Del Rio. Doesn't Antonio Inoki have some sort of botched World title reign too? Khali is from India...which is also in Asia...and he has a world title reign. Try again. Hey, I was agreeing with you. Lol I know bro. The "try again" wasn't in reference to you dawg.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: Oct 5, 2024 15:25:33 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2015 13:01:41 GMT -5
Alberto Del Rio and Rey Mysterio won the title and while that is true but Rey was only WWE Champion for a few minutes and del rio held it for a few weeks for both title runs.This is the WWE title I'm talking about and I'm going by what's recognize.And The Great Khali was world heavyweight champion but not WWE Champion I'm going by this list. www.wwe.com/classics/titlehistory/wwe-world-heavyweight-championshipAnd that Antonio Inoki guy his title run isn't even counted by the books. Like I said before this isn't about race this isn't a "HEY HE'S BLACK GIVE HIM THE TITLE!!" No I wanted big E to be champ in the future because he has a ton of charisma,solid wrestler and he's over with the crowd it's just so happens that he is black.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: Oct 5, 2024 15:25:33 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2015 13:03:22 GMT -5
I'm not even splitting hairs over the WWE title or World title.
I can't stand that argument when it's brought up and will not comment any further.
Both are f*cking considered to be world titles. Period. Both were used in WWE. Both were booked by WWE. They are both WWE world titles.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: Oct 5, 2024 15:25:33 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2015 14:29:01 GMT -5
Iron Sheik Bret Hart Edge Rock Eddie Guerrero Rey Mysterio Alberto Del Rio Chris Jericho
Just some names who were WWE champion and were not a Caucasian American. I don't know what point anyone else may be trying to make, but my point is for it's vast history, WWE has never had a black WWE Champion. Not a World Heavyweight Champion(the dubya c dubya title), not IC, US, tag or whatever. I am talking about the WWE championship. I'm not saying anyone is a racist. I'm saying that it is 2015 and there hasn't been one yet. And I think it is because Vince fears having his family's championship on a black man. Why? I don't know that answer but there is a bit of a mystery because they've never had one.
And some of you can't think of a black man that should have held the WWE Championship? Booker T should have and anyone who argues otherwise, IMO, is wrong. Even if he is the only one to "deserve" it.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: Oct 5, 2024 15:25:33 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2015 14:31:47 GMT -5
Booker T losing to the racist (in the storyline) Triple H was ridiculous. Booker should have won the title, end of story.
|
|
|
Post by attitudesback on Nov 13, 2015 14:37:13 GMT -5
He's great - loved him as Uhaa but on NXT... he's boring! What's his character? He can't just be nice guy who is quite athletic, it's weak and he'll suffer if they bring him up without that fully fledged character depth. He needs to be in a tag team or have some friends who turn on him - make him look vulnerable and unearth the beast in him that people can get behind as a face Completely agree. Also, there should be no next 'GUY'. There should be a stack of guys we see at the top in rotation. The talent pool is supposedly deep enough, so use it!
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: Oct 5, 2024 15:25:33 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2015 14:43:09 GMT -5
Of course not.
|
|
|
Post by knupmc on Nov 13, 2015 14:50:03 GMT -5
I still think booker t should have been the first full black wwe champion.
If anyone can be the first, definitely Apollo Crews. This guy has it all
|
|
|
Post by T R W on Nov 13, 2015 15:09:06 GMT -5
Booker T losing to the racist (in the storyline) Triple H was ridiculous. Booker should have won the title, end of story. That really is probably one of the more egregious examples of when a black man should have won the world title. Booker T was red hot, and the way that angle was booked, Booker should have come out on top. As far as Vince's racism, it's not really just Vince. Wrestling in general. A lot less prevalent now than it was in the 70s, 80s, and even 90s. A lot of times minorities were given stereotypical gimmicks. Islanders, african tribesman, things like that. Then there was the prevalent theory that all black wrestlers had hard heads and you couldn't headbutt them or punch them in the head. Which is an old bigoted stereotype. Wrestling has come a long way to get out of that. It's weird because guys like Tony Atlas and Rocky Johnson were pioneers for black wrestlers, but then Tony Atlas does the Saba Simba gimmick. Ron Simmons definitely was a pioneer for black wrestlers today. But you can still see a lot of outdated stereotypes and borderline racist things that Vince even does today. It's not so much that it's that he won't put the world title on them. It's just his general mindset and ideas and booking overall that have had a pattern of offensive stereotypes and characters.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: Oct 5, 2024 15:25:33 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2015 15:29:43 GMT -5
Yes.
People are going to eat up the hoss/athleticism combination once he reaches the main roster.
|
|