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Post by warriorlynx on Dec 4, 2017 10:21:25 GMT -5
 I think most people believe it was that he couldn't connect with the fans. Well he connected with kids, but lost the baby boomers and young adults I'm sure. His promos were out of this world and most of the time ridiculous. He moveset was repetitive, but I don't think that was a big issue for fans at the time. There is more to it then this and I wanted to share my ideas about why it flopped (because he was to succeed Hogan, but still drew better than some later champions). 1. THE SUPERMAN DILEMMA: By 1990, Hulk Hogan was seen as an unbeatable champion (compare this to how threatening his opponents were in the mid-80s that would make you believe he could lose). The Ultimate Challenge was basically Superman (Warrior) vs. the Incredible Hulk (Hogan), whereby Superman triumphs, hence by beating the invincible, Warrior became even more invincible. The difference between Warrior and Superman, is that Warrior has no kryptonite and showed no emotion, which means who really wanted to see a character that could never be threatened? Sure you could "cheat" like Rude did at WMV, but that was a one time thing.  Solution: Perhaps the Ultimate Challenge should've happened at Wrestlemania 7 instead. Hulk defeats the undefeated Mr. Perfect at WM6 (Curt was supposed to win the Royal Rumble and it might have worked if done right). Thereafter Hulk gets stripped out of the title after Earthquake squashes him so he could go do his movie, and at a tournament at SummerSlam, Warrior wins the WWF title. This sets up the Ultimate Challenge the right way. 2. NEEDING TIME AS WWF CHAMPION BEFORE FACING HULK: Warrior winning the WWF title off of Hulk may not have been the best idea because it was basically giving Warrior his "Wrestlemania III moment" on day one. Imagine if Hulk Hogan defeated Andre the Giant at MGS in 1984; who would believe any of Hulks opponents thereafter are a threat? Macho Man didn't defeat Hulk Hogan to win the WWF title in 1988, rather he won it in a tournament by beating Dibiase and this gave him time as champion till he fought Hogan in the biggest PPV in WWF history till Wrestlemania 17 (and remember WCW was bought right before the event giving it a bigger buy). It worked.  3. RUDE WAS NOT THE RIGHT GUY AT SUMMERSLAM: I know what you're thinking, how could he not be? Rick Rude was the only one who defeated Warrior, heck he deserved the WWF title. But think about it, don't you want the "Hulkamaniacs" to unite with the "Warriors"? You do this by setting up Warrior vs. Earthquake at SummerSlam as revenge for what Earthquake did to Warrior's "friend" the Hulkster. You could still have Rude take on Warrior at the Main Event IV/Saturday Night's Main Event etc. Hulk could've faced Dino Bravo to see it had "what it took" to wrestle again after sustaining major injuries.  4. PLEASE NO ROAD WARRIORS OR HULK TEAM UP: Now this became too much at Survivor Series. Warrior leads the Legion of Doom AND the Texas Tornado (especially against a team led by the IC champion, made no sense). I mean it "looks" the part of a "Warrior team", but it didn't feel right. And since it was an elimination tournament that would result in a main event "babyfaces vs. heels", with Warrior teaming up with Hulk and Tito in the end, it was borrowing from the old Mega Powers playbook. Warrior should've been given the main event spot with a mixed team like Jimmy Snuka, Tito Santana, and Jake Roberts who can each bring their own styles and help the Warrior, instead of having a bunch of muscle-bound big guys.  5. WARRIOR IS NOT AN AMERICAN HERO: Face it a guy from "parts unknown" isn't an American Hero. Okay fine Superman is an American Hero, fair enough, but that role was already with Hulk Hogan, heck even Jim Duggan could fit that role persay. Sgt. Slaughter winning the WWF title was barf. Warrior had no business to feud with Slaughter, at least in a PPV. Instead why not give the Warrior a Royal Rumble win? Hulk didn't need it again! And to top it off this was the beginning of the end of Hulkamania when you think of it, because for the first time, after Hogan wins the Rumble, people start leaving quickly out of the arena perhaps tired of the same old. After WMVI, Hulk didn't need the title to continue on if Warrior was done right.  6. MACHO KING FEUD: This is not a flop, the end result was excellent true, but some of it didn't make sense. Why in the world wouldn't Warrior accept a challenge from Macho King? It's stupid and makes the Warrior look like an idiot. I'm sure most would agree it should've been Warrior vs. Macho King for the title at WMVII, but it didn't work out that way. At the same time at WMVII, Macho King drops FIVE elbow drop finishers and WARRIOR kicks out of it like WTH. I know it isn't for the title, but what the heck! SUPER INVINCIBILITY MODE!!  7. UNDERTAKER: If Warrior's run was done the right way, we could've seen a strong 1991 with the Warrior facing Taker as they originally did leading to the end of their feud at SummerSlam 1991 for the WWF title. Thereafter you could have him take on Sid Justice holding unto the title for as long as he could. OR how about INTRODUCE the Undertaker at Survivor Series 1990 where the Warrior is on the babyface team and isn't able to take out Taker except by a countout. Show some damn weakness on the Warrior!  Any other thoughts on why it flopped? |
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koreygunz
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Post by koreygunz on Dec 4, 2017 20:37:45 GMT -5
The "guy after Hogan" was inevitably going to have a few hurdles to cross. At the time, Warrior was the closest guy they had to pass the torch to. And I don't think he was as big a flop as people act like. He wasn't Hogan (and who was?) but he was suitable.
However, he absolutely should have gotten tell Earthquake feud in the summer instead of Hogan. We had seen warrior/rude before, and not that long ago. I think Hogan getting the "monster" feud was proof that Vince was already getting cold feet in Warrior as "the guy", which is the biggest reason Warrior struggled. Vince always put the spotlight on Hogan, even when he wasn't champion. It's always been hard for Vince to move on from Hulk.
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Dec 5, 2017 18:43:24 GMT -5
I don't particularly think Warrior's reign flopped, as more so just wrestling wasn't seen as the 'in' thing at that time frame. Even Hogan's 1989/1990 run wasn't that amazing compared to the 1984 - 1988 era he was Champion.
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Post by warriorlynx on Dec 5, 2017 19:09:20 GMT -5
I don't particularly think Warrior's reign flopped, as more so just wrestling wasn't seen as the 'in' thing at that time frame. Even Hogan's 1989/1990 run wasn't that amazing compared to the 1984 - 1988 era he was Champion. It's true that times were changing, but Hogan drew huge (with sell out crowds) with his feuds with the Bossman and Macho Man in 89, akin to 86 with Mr. Wonderful. No Holds Barred was the issue with Zeus being brought in, just didn't work. Mr. Perfect's feud should've been done better IMO as he should've won the Royal Rumble to give him a bigger push, but Hogan used politics to get his win. Hulk's feud with Earthquake in 1990 was hot, but his time off shooting Suburban Commando didn't help business. WWF from a business perspective wouldn't be in a decline till after WM8 when guys like Hogan, Piper, Jake, and Sid left shortly after and you had both the steroid and sexual harassment scandals creeping up on the company that year. Plus demographics is another factor to consider as that 10 year old kid with a Hulkamania T-shirt at Wrestlemania III was now a teenager around WM8 and probably lost interest. They started to lose the "casuals", and all they had left were the wrestling fans. |
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Papi Joker
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Post by Papi Joker on Dec 6, 2017 0:54:11 GMT -5
1 and only reason really:
The Champion was not professional
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Post by The Brain on Dec 6, 2017 12:25:08 GMT -5
Other than the feuds with Rude and Slaughter the run was a waste. It's surprising considering how crazy over he was and on top of that all the merchandise he moved.
Gotta say though those different color straps on the belt during his reign was sweet.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2017 4:47:08 GMT -5
I don't particularly think Warrior's reign flopped, as more so just wrestling wasn't seen as the 'in' thing at that time frame. Even Hogan's 1989/1990 run wasn't that amazing compared to the 1984 - 1988 era he was Champion. It's true that times were changing, but Hogan drew huge (with sell out crowds) with his feuds with the Bossman and Macho Man in 89, akin to 86 with Mr. Wonderful. No Holds Barred was the issue with Zeus being brought in, just didn't work. Mr. Perfect's feud should've been done better IMO as he should've won the Royal Rumble to give him a bigger push, but Hogan used politics to get his win. Hulk's feud with Earthquake in 1990 was hot, but his time off shooting Suburban Commando didn't help business. WWF from a business perspective wouldn't be in a decline till after WM8 when guys like Hogan, Piper, Jake, and Sid left shortly after and you had both the steroid and sexual harassment scandals creeping up on the company that year. Plus demographics is another factor to consider as that 10 year old kid with a Hulkamania T-shirt at Wrestlemania III was now a teenager around WM8 and probably lost interest. They started to lose the "casuals", and all they had left were the wrestling fans. true. wrestling was also on a decline at the time. 1985-1990 had 4-5 SNME per year. 91 had 2 (1 was Fri ME), and 92 had 2 then they ended. it was pretty much over as main stream popularity. IMO the whole sgt slaughter/iraq war thing kinda ruined things. we just came off wm6 year with hogan vs warrior and finally getting to best vs best again, then this cheap angle with the war had to come along. instead of hogan vs warrior 2. |
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PVA
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Post by PVA on Dec 11, 2017 16:43:46 GMT -5
Wrestling was in a decline & hogan cleared out any next contenders for warrior. The one guy, Earthquake, who hogan hadn’t bet yet he took to feud with instead of giving quake to the champ.
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Post by Artie Kendall on Dec 11, 2017 18:33:03 GMT -5
I thought Warrior was ok as Champ. The major issue was booking and trying to change him. Once Warrior won the title from Hogan, most of the heel roster at that point had lost to Hogan, with the exception of Earthquake. So if those heels lost to Hogan and Warrior beat Hogan, then how are fans supposed to believe that the heels that lost to Hogan would beat Warrior? Plus you had Rude who had lost to Warrior already. The other side to Warrior was they tried to position him in the Hogan spot 100%, making TV appearances and being the PR guy. Hogan did an outstanding job at this, but once Warrior started doing it, it took some of the mystery away from him and he just wasn't as good at it as Hogan.
And you had Amanda Ultimate Warrior...yep.
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Post by rowdy1971 on Dec 12, 2017 17:57:34 GMT -5
Cause you couldn't understand a damn word he said. Hogan was all for the USA, Old Glory, and things Americans want to hear and can relate to. Who in the hell is going to relate to anything Warrior said?!
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Papi Joker
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Post by Papi Joker on Dec 13, 2017 0:35:44 GMT -5
Cause you couldn't understand a damn word he said. Hogan was all for the USA, Old Glory, and things Americans want to hear and can relate to. Who in the hell is going to relate to anything Warrior said?! The gods above of course |
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casey
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Post by casey on Dec 13, 2017 12:38:50 GMT -5
Cause you couldn't understand a damn word he said. Hogan was all for the USA, Old Glory, and things Americans want to hear and can relate to. Who in the hell is going to relate to anything Warrior said?! I have actually never understood this argument about Warrior's promos and feel like it stems mostly from the Self Destruction DVD. |
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Post by rowdy1971 on Dec 13, 2017 13:09:03 GMT -5
Cause you couldn't understand a damn word he said. Hogan was all for the USA, Old Glory, and things Americans want to hear and can relate to. Who in the hell is going to relate to anything Warrior said?! I have actually never understood this argument about Warrior's promos and feel like it stems mostly from the Self Destruction DVD. What's not to understand? I don't mean that as being a smart ass. I was watching throughout the Warriors reign as champion and when he cut his interviews he would just ramble on and on about his gods and everything else. What blue collar person anywhere can relate to that? What kid is going to understand that? After a while everyone I knew would just make fun of it and we'd have competitions to see who can "out Warrior" the other person. Now I didn't want Warrior to copy Hogan with the whole "USA! USA!" thing, but know your audience, especially in that time. Show me a Warrior interview, when he was in the WWE, that he didn't come off sounding like a whackaloon!  |
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Post by The Brain on Dec 13, 2017 21:23:14 GMT -5
I have actually never understood this argument about Warrior's promos and feel like it stems mostly from the Self Destruction DVD. What's not to understand? I don't mean that as being a smart ass. I was watching throughout the Warriors reign as champion and when he cut his interviews he would just ramble on and on about his gods and everything else. What blue collar person anywhere can relate to that? What kid is going to understand that? After a while everyone I knew would just make fun of it and we'd have competitions to see who can "out Warrior" the other person. Now I didn't want Warrior to copy Hogan with the whole "USA! USA!" thing, but know your audience, especially in that time. Show me a Warrior interview, when he was in the WWE, that he didn't come off sounding like a whackaloon! This interview here comes to mind as he's actually calm and for the most part coherent...
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casey
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Post by casey on Dec 14, 2017 23:14:15 GMT -5
I have actually never understood this argument about Warrior's promos and feel like it stems mostly from the Self Destruction DVD. What's not to understand? I don't mean that as being a smart ass. I was watching throughout the Warriors reign as champion and when he cut his interviews he would just ramble on and on about his gods and everything else. What blue collar person anywhere can relate to that? What kid is going to understand that? After a while everyone I knew would just make fun of it and we'd have competitions to see who can "out Warrior" the other person. Now I didn't want Warrior to copy Hogan with the whole "USA! USA!" thing, but know your audience, especially in that time. Show me a Warrior interview, when he was in the WWE, that he didn't come off sounding like a whackaloon! The way I view it is, his promos made sense within the context of his character. He's a face-painted, tasselled, colourful, intense guy from Parts Unknown and he has a physique that was virtually unheard of at the time. How exactly was he supposed to talk? As a kid, he came across as completely different. Sure, every wrestler had their quirks and traits, but Warrior literally seemed like he was from a different place. It seemed as if he could really pull power down from the heavens. His character from 1988-1992 was never one that could last forever in that particular incarnation, but he was absolutely perfect for the time, promos included, I believe. In fact, it was only when they tried to "humanize" his character that he lost a little momentum. It has been argued that, as champion, he should have been able to go on talk shows and such, and with his gimmick that just didn't work. I basically agree with that. Perhaps it was time to take a different approach in wrestling. Keep his mystique. Make his appearances very limited. Have his opponents do the talking (I know Rude did this during their IC feud), or have a face IC champion do the promotional circuit, talking about his own matches but also pushing Warrior as this mysterious and elusive character. It would have been a very different approach for the time, but The Ultimate Warrior was a very different character. In all, my biggest beef with the promo criticism is that it was a huge part of forming the character as a whole. Take it away and you lose a lot of what got him over. |
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Post by wolfpac on Dec 15, 2017 15:46:33 GMT -5
I think the biggest hurdle was being directly after Hogan, maybe if they gave fans a heel champion for awhile that warrior could overcome then do Hogan/Warrior at WM7 things may have been different but also seeing how things actually turned out there really was no saving his run due to how unprofessional he turned out to be.
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Post by marino13 on Dec 15, 2017 20:54:22 GMT -5
I think both Warrior suffered from Hulk still taking the majority of the spotlight. Hulk refused to take a backseat and let his champion reign shine. Because of this, fans still viewed Hogan as the top guy. Not sure if Hogan was purposely trying to sabotage him or if Vince didn't fully trust him. Maybe a lil of both?
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Post by Back to the Codyverse on Dec 18, 2017 0:53:42 GMT -5
He had the charisma, entrance and all that but his matches completely sucked ass. Plus he was a complete dick backstage.
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casey
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Post by casey on Dec 18, 2017 10:59:51 GMT -5
He had the charisma, entrance and all that but his matches completely sucked ass. Plus he was a complete dick backstage. To which matches are you referring? His matches when he first joined the WWF were far from great, but he improved fairly quickly. By the time he was champion, he was wrestling some good matches. |
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PVA
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Post by PVA on Dec 18, 2017 13:52:05 GMT -5
Cause you couldn't understand a damn word he said. Hogan was all for the USA, Old Glory, and things Americans want to hear and can relate to. Who in the hell is going to relate to anything Warrior said?! Hogan was far from coherent in the 80s a lot of times as well. I’m fact; Everyone was yelling in promos for whatever reason in Late 80s. What about building up Warlord and giving him to warrior? Warlord was huge in size and beginning a singles run. |
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