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Post by K5 on Apr 30, 2019 10:46:38 GMT -5
But he didnt have to if he didnt want to. It was part of his contract. He could’ve been a man and just suck it up but his ego just couldn’t let him lose to Shawn in Canada. Shawn literally said he would not return the favour. Bret had put Shawn over. Bret was in no way required to put Shawn over. Ego has nothing to do with it. Pride, discipline, self respect? Absolutely. the fact you can discuss ego and Shawn Michaels in one sentence and not correlate the two says enough. Shawn’s lucky all he got was a refusal to job. For what he did to the Bulldog with the European title incident, Sunny days remark etc, he should’ve gotten the Dynamite Kid treatment or worse. |
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Post by Hulkster2001 on Apr 30, 2019 12:32:59 GMT -5
He could’ve been a man and just suck it up but his ego just couldn’t let him lose to Shawn in Canada. Shawn literally said he would not return the favour. Bret had put Shawn over. Bret was in no way required to put Shawn over. Ego has nothing to do with it. Pride, discipline, self respect? Absolutely. the fact you can discuss ego and Shawn Michaels in one sentence and not correlate the two says enough. Shawn’s lucky all he got was a refusal to job. For what he did to the Bulldog with the European title incident, Sunny days remark etc, he should’ve gotten the Dynamite Kid treatment or worse. Yes I know Shawn had an ego too but his seems to be the only one ever talks about. |
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Post by HandsomeHollywood on Apr 30, 2019 13:28:41 GMT -5
 Me and my fatigue of discussing the screwjob and sad that anyone could go against Bret in this situation. Interesting how Bret should have been a man, considering he stuck to his guns and said no and the other side hatched a scheme of lies after telling him that it's okay, then continued to cowardly lie to his face after they pulled it. If you're going to excuse his contract then why don't we excuse everyone's contract? Make up their terms and how much they're paid as it's convenient. The contract basically nulls any of Vince's excuses to me. I call xenophobia. Hogan refused to do jobs all the time and no one's calling for him to be screwed. Same for the countless others who have said no. It's because he's Canadian, isn't it? |
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Post by Hulkster2001 on May 1, 2019 6:53:58 GMT -5
I call xenophobia. Hogan refused to do jobs all the time and no one's calling for him to be screwed. Same for the countless others who have said no. It's because he's Canadian, isn't it? No it’s because he’s Bret the $hitman Hart. |
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Post by Hulkster2001 on May 1, 2019 6:54:31 GMT -5
I’m going to get this thread locked ain’t I?
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Post by HandsomeHollywood on May 1, 2019 6:59:06 GMT -5
I’m going to get this thread locked ain’t I? I mean, if that's your goal. I've been avoiding the heavy irony of arguing with a Hogan fan over whether others should do jobs they're told to do for a few weeks now. Seems pointless. |
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Post by Hulkster2001 on May 1, 2019 7:26:29 GMT -5
I’m going to get this thread locked ain’t I? I mean, if that's your goal. Oh god no, I’m not that type of person |
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Post by Patrick Bateman (original) on May 1, 2019 17:06:31 GMT -5
Looks like the next 2 episode are
Last of the Von Erichs airs today.
"The last surviving brother of the legendary Von Erich wrestling dynasty revisits the tragedy that plagued his once iconic family."
And
The Mysterious death of Gorgeous Gino.
Airs 5/8/19
"New revelations about her son's death are revealed to the mother of wrestling star Gino Hernandez, who's 1986 death was believed to be a drug-related murder."
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Post by HandsomeHollywood on May 1, 2019 18:19:46 GMT -5
I can't wait for the Von Erichs episode. It's the one I've been looking forward to the most.
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Post by Grumpyoldman on May 2, 2019 10:44:33 GMT -5
Looks like the next 2 episode are Last of the Von Erichs airs today. "The last surviving brother of the legendary Von Erich wrestling dynasty revisits the tragedy that plagued his once iconic family." And The Mysterious death of Gorgeous Gino. Airs 5/8/19 "New revelations about her son's death are revealed to the mother of wrestling star Gino Hernandez, who's 1986 death was believed to be a drug-related murder." It's about time someone did a piece about Gino Hernandez. Could someone post a link to these when they come out? |
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Post by PJ on May 2, 2019 11:34:48 GMT -5
I’m going to get this thread locked ain’t I? Getting very close. |
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Post by Hulkster2001 on May 2, 2019 13:39:36 GMT -5
I’m going to get this thread locked ain’t I? Getting very close.  |
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Post by Patrick Bateman (original) on May 2, 2019 14:43:24 GMT -5
This weeks episode was awesome. Kevin talked about Kerry's foot, about him losing it in a motorcycle accident. Talked about losing all his brothers. His kids look like beast. A line that got me choked up was "all your life you were the oldest brother. Now you're no longer a brother."
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Post by PJ on May 2, 2019 14:57:59 GMT -5
This weeks episode was awesome. Kevin talked about Kerry's foot, about him losing it in a motorcycle accident. Talked about losing all his brothers. His kids look like beast. A line that got me choked up was "all your life you were the oldest brother. Now you're no longer a brother." Yeah...Kevin has said that before (maybe in the Von Erich’s DVD?) but that got me then. Is there a way to watch these? I tried to watch the two after Brody’s on Hulu but it wouldn’t let me. |
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Post by Patrick Bateman (original) on May 2, 2019 15:08:11 GMT -5
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Post by Patrick Bateman (original) on May 2, 2019 15:09:07 GMT -5
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Post by The Brain on May 2, 2019 15:20:25 GMT -5
Another great episode last night. I'm really looking forward to the Gino Hernandez episode next week. Dude had so much potential.
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The Golden Gimmick
Mid-Carder
...but brother, I am bad. And they know I’m bad.
Joined on: Jul 25, 2003 22:13:48 GMT -5
Posts: 322
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Post by The Golden Gimmick on May 2, 2019 20:58:54 GMT -5
Me and my fatigue of discussing the screwjob and sad that anyone could go against Bret in this situation. Hah, it's sad to think there's more than just one side to this story? I call that being pragmatic, not sad. Especially if you've ever worked in management. Thinking Bret is the "good guy" and Vince is the "bad guy" is failing to see the picture from the business side.
Screwjob Episode:
"reasonable creative control" is not total creative control. For all intents and purposes, the people behind the scenes (Cornette, Russo, Prichard) have said Bret was being unreasonable, refusing every plausible finish pitched. What were they supposed to do? He was the one leaving for a rival. They can't just let him peace out as their #1 guy.
Michaels always gets the knock for being an "arrogant a-hole", but that was his gimmick, right? Didn't him and Marty get fired previously for being Midnight Rockers? Point being, Shawn was into living the gimmick. A prima donna. It's like being mad at Ric Flair for kiss-stealin'! Michaels was supposed to get under your skin. Very effective. Truth be told it was Hart who attacked him backstage - the clump of hair story, Hart being the aggressor. "What about Sunny Days!" What about Bret calling him a homo? Seems tit-for-tat. "What about Shawn saying he wouldn't put Bret over!" What about their overall record of 66-6-1* in singles matches, with Bret on top? Literally could do that all day... Shawn is the scapegoat here. The issue was with Vince and Bret, but ultimately the real issue was what Bret was getting paid and his perceived status among the others, because that's why he ultimately signed with WCW: More money. The loyalty BS... whatever. If he was loyal, he would've never shopped offers from a rival during the height of the Monday Night Wars, and he would've taken a pay cut to help Vince. Right? Isn't that what loyal heroes do? He was already the world champ, he was already WWF's highest paid... maybe that doesn't matter to Bret Hart fans, but it matters when you tell the story in full. He wasn't budging for anything when he already had everything. He even had a documentary crew following him around. Sure, no ego there at all.
Von Erich Episode:
It's a wonder we still have Kevin with us today, considering all the tragedy he's endured. His retelling of all the loss was a grim reminder of the toll the business takes on a person, but also his outlook on life and the family he has now, coupled with his family's legacy was "sweet-sweet, not bitter sweet." World Class was a hell of a promotion for the short-lived run it had. Can't wait for the Gino ep.
Wondering if they'll do a second season? We've still got stuff like the Snuka murder, Dino Bravo, Owen, Adrian Adonis and the Patterson scandal still on the table.
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Post by HandsomeHollywood on May 2, 2019 21:13:16 GMT -5
Me and my fatigue of discussing the screwjob and sad that anyone could go against Bret in this situation. Hah, it's sad to think there's more than just one side to this story? I call that being pragmatic, not sad. Especially if you've ever worked in management. Thinking Bret is the "good guy" and Vince is the "bad guy" is failing to see the picture from the business side.
Screwjob Episode:
"reasonable creative control" is not total creative control. For all intents and purposes, the people behind the scenes (Cornette, Russo, Prichard) have said Bret was being unreasonable, refusing every plausible finish pitched. What were they supposed to do? He was the one leaving for a rival. They can't just let him peace out as their #1 guy.
Michaels always gets the knock for being an "arrogant a-hole", but that was his gimmick, right? Didn't him and Marty get fired previously for being Midnight Rockers? Point being, Shawn was into living the gimmick. A prima donna. It's like being mad at Ric Flair for kiss-stealin'! Michaels was supposed to get under your skin. Very effective. Truth be told it was Hart who attacked him backstage - the clump of hair story, Hart being the aggressor. "What about Sunny Days!" What about Bret calling him a homo? Seems tit-for-tat. "What about Shawn saying he wouldn't put Bret over!" What about their overall record of 66-6-1* in singles matches, with Bret on top? Literally could do that all day... Shawn is the scapegoat here. The issue was with Vince and Bret, but ultimately the real issue was what Bret was getting paid and his perceived status among the others, because that's why he ultimately signed with WCW: More money. The loyalty BS... whatever. If he was loyal, he would've never shopped offers from a rival during the height of the Monday Night Wars, and he would've taken a pay cut to help Vince. Right? Isn't that what loyal heroes do? He was already the world champ, he was already WWF's highest paid... maybe that doesn't matter to Bret Hart fans, but it matters when you tell the story in full. He wasn't budging for anything when he already had everything. He even had a documentary crew following him around. Sure, no ego there at all.
Von Erich Episode:
It's a wonder we still have Kevin with us today, considering all the tragedy he's endured. His retelling of all the loss was a grim reminder of the toll the business takes on a person, but also his outlook on life and the family he has now, coupled with his family's legacy was "sweet-sweet, not bitter sweet." World Class was a hell of a promotion for the short-lived run it had. Can't wait for the Gino ep.
Wondering if they'll do a second season? We've still got stuff like the Snuka murder, Dino Bravo, Owen, Adrian Adonis and the Patterson scandal still on the table.
I definitely know the other sides. I'm being facetious there. I don't think Bret wanted to leave the WWF. It was Vince who told him to talk to WCW. Bret often talks of how he never wanted to go to WCW because he knew they wouldn't know how to handle his character, and he was right there. Bret didn't shoot down all creative suggestions as he had some himself. He just didn't want to drop to Shawn that night in Montreal. He had several other options and Vince wasn't entertaining any idea that didn't see Bret dropping to Shawn. That isn't unreasonable creative control considering precedents set by other top guys in the past, who didn't get screwed. It wasn't Bret's last night in the company, there were other options, both sides were equally stubborn in their resolve. I don't think anyone arguing that Bret didn't have an ego. My main dislike of Michaels at this time stems from his alleged false injuries, putting his friends over at the expense of others (his treatment of Vader in particular irks me) and clearly not showing up to work sober if he isn't wrestling, so I don't think it's unreasonable to see Michaels in a somewhat unfavorable light during this time. Though you are right, Vince is ultimately the bad guy in the pro-Bret narrative. I also agree that it is a miracle that Kevin Von Erich is still living, and thankfully seemingly living well. |
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Joined on: Nov 28, 2024 19:02:24 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2019 11:39:12 GMT -5
I hope there is a season 2. Maybe one episode can be about the death of ecw.
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