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Post by BØRNS on Apr 19, 2019 5:41:20 GMT -5
Spend a few moments and think about the Hall of Fame concept. Each year about 6 inductions of wrestlers (individuals, tag team, or larger group) are made. We can ignore the celebrity and Warrior awards for now. Just this year, 13 wrestlers were inducted in total. Now, if you know anything about population maintenance, we can use the concept of replacement level fertility to think about the long-term status of the HOF. In order to induct as many wrestlers that are being inducted, WWE would have to debut at least that many wrestlers each year for the system to be sustainable and not run the whole thing dry. To put it in population terms, we're killing off (inducting) wrestlers at a faster rate than are being born (developing and retaining high quality talent). What do you think of the whole thing? How long do you think it'll take before it starts to become an obvious problem? What is the meaning of it if there is no standard (as clearly there isn't, with the exception of poor image) for being inducted?
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Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Apr 19, 2019 8:12:26 GMT -5
John Cena
Edge & Christian
Hardy Boys
JBL
APA
Rey Mysterio
The Rock
Kane
Big Show
Randy Orton
Batista
Triple H
Mickie James
Rhyno
Rob Van Dam
Dean Malenko
British Bulldog
NWO
There are still many, many, many names from the past and present. Several of the above would be headliners, so the hall of game in its current format is viable for a decade or more to come, in terms of talent.
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FUSamBaker
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Post by FUSamBaker on Apr 19, 2019 8:18:51 GMT -5
I was just thinking about this the other day actually.
Realistically, I think there are enough mid card legends to sustain the HOF for awhile. They always manage to find spots to fill. But with the legacy wing, I think they’re kinda losing me. I thought that was for early years-1950s talent. When they threw Luna and Wahoo in, it started to make me think they could breeze through talent a bit quicker.
My main concern is how many big names they can get to draw as the headliner. They already have the big 1980s names in, now they seem to be moving onto the 90s. But we already have Steve Austin, Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels in so there is some already omitted. If Undertaker doesn’t go in next year, who will? I can’t really think of many more 90s names to go in.
I kinda wonder if they didn’t think that stuff through pre 2005. They were putting big names in together without a real headliner. Then they started adding a headliner.
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Post by Deep Figure Value on Apr 19, 2019 9:08:23 GMT -5
Given that there's entirely no standard for entry, there really isn't a problem, as long as the company maintains the model it has for forever.
It's nice to see talent that are, at least mostly unanimously, of a caliber one would consider Hall of Fame "worthy" getting their just dues, but the model is designed so that tomorrow, if the WWE found themselves on amicable terms with Robert Maillet and decided that Kurrgan was to be a 2020 Hall of Fame entry, what you or I or anyone else thinks otherwise of his career trajectory is entirely irrelevant - Kurrgan would, in turn, be a "Hall of Famer".
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Post by Prophet of Ash on Apr 19, 2019 9:36:36 GMT -5
I was just thinking about this the other day actually. Realistically, I think there are enough mid card legends to sustain the HOF for awhile. They always manage to find spots to fill. But with the legacy wing, I think they’re kinda losing me. I thought that was for early years-1950s talent. When they threw Luna and Wahoo in, it started to make me think they could breeze through talent a bit quicker. My main concern is how many big names they can get to draw as the headliner. They already have the big 1980s names in, now they seem to be moving onto the 90s. But we already have Steve Austin, Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels in so there is some already omitted. If Undertaker doesn’t go in next year, who will? I can’t really think of many more 90s names to go in. I kinda wonder if they didn’t think that stuff through pre 2005. They were putting big names in together without a real headliner. Then they started adding a headliner. 05 had Hogan, Piper, and Iron Sheik, all 3 who could've legitimately headlined. I get the theory of Orton & Orndorff going in the same year as Piper, bu man, there'll never be a more stacked year than 05. same with 06 hotshotting Eddie Guerrero in. Imagine Eddie getting inducted today where people can understand the full scope of his body of work. |
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FUSamBaker
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Post by FUSamBaker on Apr 19, 2019 10:01:49 GMT -5
I was just thinking about this the other day actually. Realistically, I think there are enough mid card legends to sustain the HOF for awhile. They always manage to find spots to fill. But with the legacy wing, I think they’re kinda losing me. I thought that was for early years-1950s talent. When they threw Luna and Wahoo in, it started to make me think they could breeze through talent a bit quicker. My main concern is how many big names they can get to draw as the headliner. They already have the big 1980s names in, now they seem to be moving onto the 90s. But we already have Steve Austin, Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels in so there is some already omitted. If Undertaker doesn’t go in next year, who will? I can’t really think of many more 90s names to go in. I kinda wonder if they didn’t think that stuff through pre 2005. They were putting big names in together without a real headliner. Then they started adding a headliner. 05 had Hogan, Piper, and Iron Sheik, all 3 who could've legitimately headlined. I get the theory of Orton & Orndorff going in the same year as Piper, bu man, there'll never be a more stacked year than 05. same with 06 hotshotting Eddie Guerrero in. Imagine Eddie getting inducted today where people can understand the full scope of his body of work. Exactly! See i don’t think they really gave much deep thought to headliners until 09. I was going through the classes and all you mentioned were exactly what I was thinking of. While putting Eddie in was a great tribute, they jumped the gun on that one. I think 2010 could have easily gone to Eddie, not saying DiBiase wasn’t a good headliner but it would have for Eddie better. I also feel like Edge was a quick one too. They could have waited and put him in closer to nowadays. Maybe he and Christian could be headliners for 2020. While I don’t think she’ll headline, I see Chyna going in solo next year. Putting her in with DX felt like it was WWE’s way of testing the water. Seeing if putting her in would cause any commotion. If all goes well, I feel a solo induction is in the works between 2020-2022. While each member deserved an HOF spot, we all know everyone was hyped for Chyna over anyone else. |
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Post by K5 on Apr 19, 2019 10:12:30 GMT -5
the HOF is just a gimmick. so it will always be tangible because it can take form of whatever they need it to be in that time.
it meant something to a lot of guys, and that’s great, but to me the sustainability of an imaginary hall of fame that’s just a money maker doesn’t really matter. if they’d been properly inducting those that deserve it we would have a plethora of names to still choose from.
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Post by Prophet of Ash on Apr 19, 2019 10:17:57 GMT -5
05 had Hogan, Piper, and Iron Sheik, all 3 who could've legitimately headlined. I get the theory of Orton & Orndorff going in the same year as Piper, bu man, there'll never be a more stacked year than 05. same with 06 hotshotting Eddie Guerrero in. Imagine Eddie getting inducted today where people can understand the full scope of his body of work. Exactly! See i don’t think they really gave much deep thought to headliners until 09. I was going through the classes and all you mentioned were exactly what I was thinking of. While putting Eddie in was a great tribute, they jumped the gun on that one. I think 2010 could have easily gone to Eddie, not saying DiBiase wasn’t a good headliner but it would have for Eddie better. I also feel like Edge was a quick one too. They could have waited and put him in closer to nowadays. Maybe he and Christian could be headliners for 2020. While I don’t think she’ll headline, I see Chyna going in solo next year. Putting her in with DX felt like it was WWE’s way of testing the water. Seeing if putting her in would cause any commotion. If all goes well, I feel a solo induction is in the works between 2020-2022. While each member deserved an HOF spot, we all know everyone was hyped for Chyna over anyone else. I know it'll get me "heat" but they really need to cut the idea of inducting a woman every year. Torrie Wilson did not have a Hall of Fame career. Beth Phoenix is on the fringe. Jacqueline did, but did nothing really of note in WWE. With Luna, Lita, Trish, Madusa, Moolah, & Mae already inducted, they have 2 real future women's Hall of Famers, both who are probably forever on the outskirts. Wendy Richter inducted by Cyndi Lauper (or inducted together or inducting each other) and Sable. There are a lot of guys that they need to induct and if memorable mid carders are fine, then they'll be good for a few years. I'd love to see Sandman inducted. His run in ECW can't be denied, moderate 1-2 year runs in both WWE & WCW, and generally an extremely memorable wrestler. Sandman would be a fine opening inductee in the Hillbilly Jim slot. Same with Tommy Dreamer. Get Magnum TA and Nikita Koloff in while they're still in good health. Goldust absolutely is a Hall of Famer. Big Show & Kane should go in possibly as headliners. Andy Kaufman HAS to go into the Celebrity Wing and if they can do it while Bob Zmuda is still in good health to do Tony Clifton, all the better. Or let Jim Carrey accept the award as Tony Clifton from a Lawler induction. There's possibilities. then you have to remember, Orton & Cena probably don't have too much left in the tank. Taker isn't in yet and Batista is a sure fire inductee. Yeah, it's jumping into the 2000s early, but with Edge, Flair, Eddie, Mark Henry, Booker T, Angle, Goldberg & Shawn already in, they're not going to have a ton of other top tier stars from the 2000s anyways. That's probably where they've raided too much and too soon, from the 2000s rather than the 70s/80s/90s. Hard to see Mark Henry in over Vader for the "big man contribution" |
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FUSamBaker
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Post by FUSamBaker on Apr 19, 2019 10:41:05 GMT -5
I know it'll get me "heat" but they really need to cut the idea of inducting a woman every year. Torrie Wilson did not have a Hall of Fame career. Beth Phoenix is on the fringe. Jacqueline did, but did nothing really of note in WWE. With Luna, Lita, Trish, Madusa, Moolah, & Mae already inducted, they have 2 real future women's Hall of Famers, both who are probably forever on the outskirts. Wendy Richter inducted by Cyndi Lauper (or inducted together or inducting each other) and Sable. They put Richter in a few years ago. But I agree 100%! I love Torrie but I didn’t think she was huge HoF material. I don’t really see Sable going in anytime soon, but she is a huge name to put in. I’d like to see Marlena/Terri go in, Victoria and heck if Torrie is in then put Stacy in. If they don’t indicate Chyna solo next year, they should probably just skip a female induction. |
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Post by ~ Cymru ~ on Apr 19, 2019 10:55:09 GMT -5
No disrespect to Torie Wilson but if she can get in you can kinda see where the bar is being set. The hall of fame will carry on as long as the company does.
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Post by Nivro™ on Apr 19, 2019 11:58:11 GMT -5
Can we all agree that now that Torrie Wilson is in we can finally move on from the "well if Koko can get in...." excuse??
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FUSamBaker
Main Eventer
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Post by FUSamBaker on Apr 19, 2019 12:14:08 GMT -5
Can we all agree that now that Torrie Wilson is in we can finally move on from the "well if Koko can get in...." excuse?? Ehhhh...I really never liked that excuse 😂. Anyone who has the strength and talent to compete in WWE should have a chance I’m the HoF. Mid card talent is just as meaningful filler in the HoF as it is on the actual card. With that being said....I still feel like they have been picking women randomly for the past few years. As soon as Beth went in, I started feeling they were throwing women in just to fill a spot. Not that she didn’t deserve it, but it just felt random. Like why are Beth and Torrie in but not Molly? Btw....was anyone else off-put that Wahoo McDaniel went into the Legacy wing? |
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Post by JC Motors on Apr 19, 2019 12:19:23 GMT -5
The Legacy wing is kinda pointless. I can see where WWE is going with it. However the people inducted in the Legacy wing, are mostly people who weren't associated with WWE.
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Post by Prophet of Ash on Apr 19, 2019 12:29:36 GMT -5
Can we all agree that now that Torrie Wilson is in we can finally move on from the "well if Koko can get in...." excuse?? Ehhhh...I really never liked that excuse 😂. Anyone who has the strength and talent to compete in WWE should have a chance I’m the HoF. Mid card talent is just as meaningful filler in the HoF as it is on the actual card. With that being said....I still feel like they have been picking women randomly for the past few years. As soon as Beth went in, I started feeling they were throwing women in just to fill a spot. Not that she didn’t deserve it, but it just felt random. Like why are Beth and Torrie in but not Molly? Btw....was anyone else off-put that Wahoo McDaniel went into the Legacy wing? I was more put off that Brody went in that way. Barbara Goodish is still alive and well to accept and Stan Hansen is on good terms with them to induct. |
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Post by Deep Figure Value on Apr 19, 2019 12:49:11 GMT -5
I like the Legacy Wing for the rationale of including the likes of Haystacks Calhoun.
I don't like it as a means of just sliding Luna Vachon in, sight unseen. She deserves a full induction.
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FUSamBaker
Main Eventer
Biggest crush on Sami Zayn.
Joined on: Sept 6, 2005 19:25:20 GMT -5
Posts: 3,107
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Post by FUSamBaker on Apr 19, 2019 12:56:52 GMT -5
I like the Legacy Wing for the rationale of including the likes of Haystacks Calhoun. I don't like it as a means of just sliding Luna Vachon in, sight unseen. She deserves a full induction. We don’t agree on a lot but I’m right there with you. I was really hoping to see her get a spot since 2014. When I saw her slide up on the Legacy wing video I was like “WTF!” I really thought the Legacy section was for old old timers. |
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Apr 19, 2019 13:10:56 GMT -5
There will always be wrestlers each year to go into the WWE Hall of Fame. This year proved it with HBK, Bret Hart and Booker T going in a second time.
For Triple H went in as DX, he will go in as himself, he will go in a part of Evolution, hell, he may even go in as part of the Two Man Power Trip with Austin.
If wrestlers are going into the HOF a second time, then we as fans don't have to worry if the WWE will run out of superstars to put into their HOF. For as long as the HOF is a show that sells tickets each year at WrestleMania time, then wrestlers will always be inducted.
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Post by Deep Figure Value on Apr 19, 2019 13:36:28 GMT -5
I like the Legacy Wing for the rationale of including the likes of Haystacks Calhoun. I don't like it as a means of just sliding Luna Vachon in, sight unseen. She deserves a full induction. We don’t agree on a lot but I’m right there with you. I was really hoping to see her get a spot since 2014. When I saw her slide up on the Legacy wing video I was like “WTF!” I really thought the Legacy section was for old old timers. It was, until it wasn't Seeing this year's class, I fully expect this to be their method of moving forward with names they'd like to recognize that may be roadblocked by whatever factors may exist that fall short of the "hostile relations" threshold. The sentimental side of me would have loved to have seen Gangrel get the prospective opportunity to induct her. The gossipy b*tch side of me would have been on the edge of my seat to see if her son, a two-time contestant on Hell's Kitchen, would have at all been involved in accepting on her behalf. |
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Post by BØRNS on Apr 19, 2019 14:04:49 GMT -5
John Cena Edge & Christian Hardy Boys JBL APA Rey Mysterio The Rock Kane Big Show Randy Orton Batista Triple H Mickie James Rhyno Rob Van Dam Dean Malenko British Bulldog NWO There are still many, many, many names from the past and present. Several of the above would be headliners, so the hall of game in its current format is viable for a decade or more to come, in terms of talent. Yeah that's a few years... And then? You can't deny the fact that they're inducting faster than they are being replaced. Sure there are a lot of people that can go in, but I'm talking about the long-term sustainability of the whole system. When a business only thinks quarter to quarter and year to year, they lose sight of logic. Also, is the HOF just meant to be a big encyclopedia of every wrestler who has worked for the company? Because that seems to be what it's becoming. No one is distinct nor distinguished in the HOF compared to the rosters of a decade or two. |
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Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Apr 19, 2019 14:17:38 GMT -5
Also, is the HOF just meant to be a big encyclopedia of every wrestler who has worked for the company? Pretty much. There are literally hundreds of wrestlers in the WWE’s history to get through. The only issue will be headliners, and I’ve just given a list of about fifteen of those. There are tons more too- the likes of Miz, Bryan, even Punk will kiss and make up at some point. And by the time the current old guys are done, there’ll be Becky, Charlotte, Rousey, Rollins, AJ, Reigns, Braun, Balor, Joe, and so on. They’ll change the format or drop the ceremony long before they ever run out of names to induct. |
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I dont know good luck 
