johnnyhanson21
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Post by johnnyhanson21 on Apr 20, 2020 14:55:27 GMT -5
While watch some of the old post Monday Night Wars era stuff on the network and the WCW/ECW Invasion of WWF in the summer of 2001 go me wondering what could have been.Seems like the WWF and Vince himself set up WCW to fail from the start for some reason even with the rumors and reports that WWF was interested in bring back WCW as its own brand and have its own show on TNN.Just never understood why the 1st so called WCW match was between Booker T & Buff Bagwell in a town and state that never gave a rats ass about WCW,and then having such a shallow roster in terms of WCW as the bigger names wanted to sit out and collect their money from AOL.
Anyways thought that even with the WCW talent not being ideal and the debut match being trash that the angle could have been easily saved and that WCW as its own brand could have worked.Never understood instead of turn Austin heel again and joining the Invasion angle which he then became the soul focus why other former WCW guys weren't included and push instead of Austin who should have stayed face and in the WWF.
Again a little fantasy booking but with WCW talent being so shallow why not have the like of Chris Jericho,Big Show,Faarooq,Dean Malenko,Perry Saturn instead join WCW and push them instead ? also ECW never should have been involved at all and the talent should have been divided up between the WWF & WCW.
If a major name was need for WCW always felt like bring back Mick Foley would have worked.In the summer of 2001 he was like 35 or 36 and was already retired for well over a year,he would have been perfect as the major star for the brand until more of the bigger named WCW guys became available.So bottom line really felt like the WWF dropped the ball on what could have been a big time angle and money maker.
the WWF version of WCW could have easily had a roster of Booker T,Buff Bagwell,Cactus Jack,Chris Jericho,The Giant,Lance Storm,Mike Awesome,Raven,Ron Simmons & Rob Van Dam with Shane McMahon & Arn Anderson in the authority roles and also brought in Joey Styles for the play by play.Something like this would have been more then enough to carry the brand and give WCW some new life with all former WCW talents and most of the guys listed in their primes besides DDP & Simmons.
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jking1979
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Post by jking1979 on Apr 20, 2020 15:05:20 GMT -5
I like the idea of Ron Simmons in there since he was the first black WCW world champion. Cactus Jack would also be great for a WCW group. He is one of the best promo guys in the business.
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johnnyhanson21
Main Eventer
Joined on: Oct 10, 2019 17:01:41 GMT -5
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Post by johnnyhanson21 on Apr 20, 2020 15:26:42 GMT -5
I like the idea of Ron Simmons in there since he was the first black WCW world champion. Cactus Jack would also be great for a WCW group. He is one of the best promo guys in the business.
Just thought with the lack of star power for WCW at the point of the invasion bring back Foley who had what a 3 or 4 year run in WCW and reviving Ron Simmons career a former WCW World & Tag Team Champion would have really help the brand and brought back ties to the golden era of WCW in the early 90's.Plus neither would have really been a lose at that point to the WWF side of things as Foley was retired and popped up every once and awhile and the APA at that point had kind of run its course and was more so on the back burner to other tag teams.
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jking1979
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Post by jking1979 on Apr 20, 2020 15:37:36 GMT -5
It is the next best thing since they couldn't bring in Sting, Ric Flair, Bill Goldberg, Lex Luger and the Steiner Brothers.
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rateddal
Mid-Carder
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Post by rateddal on Apr 20, 2020 15:49:10 GMT -5
Anyone think there was a chance the entire angle could've been on hold until more stars contracts ran out?
I know with the purchase the story was hot but bringing in true WCW stars to invade later would've still done major business. With the guys they did have there was just no way the angle could've played out as big as it could or should have.
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johnnyhanson21
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Post by johnnyhanson21 on Apr 20, 2020 15:50:50 GMT -5
It is the next best thing since they couldn't bring in Sting, Ric Flair, Bill Goldberg, Lex Luger and the Steiner Brothers.
That's pretty much why I picked the roster I did,none would have been a big loses to the WWF besides Chris Jericho and the debuting Rob Van Dam.But with Vince and company finally getting behind the push of Jericho as a main eventer would have gotten him over even more by being one of the main faces of the restarted WCW,as far as RVD goes reports are and from Bischoff himself that if he was able to buy WCW that RVD & Joey Styles both would have been apart of the revived WCW,so only make sense that even now being owned and run by WWF that could have just brought them into the fold just under different management.
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johnnyhanson21
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Joined on: Oct 10, 2019 17:01:41 GMT -5
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Post by johnnyhanson21 on Apr 20, 2020 17:08:16 GMT -5
Anyone think there was a chance the entire angle could've been on hold until more stars contracts ran out? I know with the purchase the story was hot but bringing in true WCW stars to invade later would've still done major business. With the guys they did have there was just no way the angle could've played out as big as it could or should have. I think they could have they could have put a hold on the actual "Invasion" and the "WWF Vs WCW" matches until as you pointed out more stars joined.But do think that starting up WCW again as its own brand in the summer of 2001 would have be the right move to make,then as I pointed out you rehab some of the WCW guys and WWF guys your bring over to the brand for awhile and build talent back up or in the case of Chris Jericho really turn him into a main event caliber talent and draw,then once the likes of Flair,Hogan,Hall,Nash,Goldberg,Steiner,Mysterio...ect all started to come over you could have built the whole "Free Agency" angle with both companies fight over the older talent and talent coming up from OVW and built to a big blow off "WWF Vs WCW" show which should have been Wrestlemania X8.
Booker T Buff Bagwell Cactus Jack
Chris Jericho
Diamond Dallas Page The Giant
Lance Storm
Mike Awesome Raven
Rob Van Dam
Ron Simmons
again would have been the main event and upper to mid card talents in the restarted WCW.Again if things played out like in real life Bagwell still flames out and the likes of DDP,Simmons and Foley all wind down their careers with in a year or more.Even if that was the case if that group could get you through 2002 or a little later then you would have Booker T,Giant,Jericho,RVD and maybe even Raven all built up as main eventers now and talent like Benoit,Guerrero,Triple H,Hogan,Hall,Nash,Goldberg,Flair,Mysterio,Steiner...ect all coming in at points in '02/'03 and the OVW kids coming in with Cena,Orton,Batista,ock,Haas,Benjamin...ect really could have revived and made the new WCW something special and also would have basically been a much better version of the "Brand Split"
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Apr 20, 2020 17:17:20 GMT -5
Well to be fair, any promotion that buys out their competition never puts over that company in anything.
When Crockett got his hands on the entire NWA, he bought out Georgia, he bought out UWF, and he squashed those guys.
So of course Vince was going to do that with WCW and ECW to a lesser extent.
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johnnyhanson21
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Post by johnnyhanson21 on Apr 20, 2020 17:52:17 GMT -5
Well to be fair, any promotion that buys out their competition never puts over that company in anything. When Crockett got his hands on the entire NWA, he bought out Georgia, he bought out UWF, and he squashed those guys. So of course Vince was going to do that with WCW and ECW to a lesser extent.
That's true but the reports where back in 2001 after they bought out WCW that they actually intended to run it as its own brand but Vince and company got cold feet after the terrible Booker T/Buff match up and then they went with the full on WCW/ECW "Invasion" and as you stated basically made both companies looks like crapand lesser then the WWF and even more so the new leader of the Invasion in Stone Cold.
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jking1979
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Post by jking1979 on Apr 20, 2020 17:53:44 GMT -5
They could have had Steve Austin stay on the WWE side and lose to the great Billy Kidman.
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jking1979
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Post by jking1979 on Apr 20, 2020 17:59:13 GMT -5
ECW should have never been a brand in WWE. They are like the American version of FMW in Japan.
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Post by PJ on Apr 21, 2020 4:56:54 GMT -5
Rumors or not I didn’t think Vince ever wanted WCW to succeed. Having it fail was just him pumping his chest at his company’s superiority. The same way he made Booker T look like a chump feeding him to the Rock’s promo and then the Austin grocery store beat down. So he was never going to let the WCW name succeed in the WWE. It was never going to happen.
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nibs92
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Post by nibs92 on Apr 21, 2020 5:49:04 GMT -5
To me I could have lived without the whole invasion angle. As stated by others, the owner of a promotion is never going to put another over. It would be like an admission that the other promotion was at least on the same level as themselves.
That being said, it was better the way that big stars were staggered in the way that they came in. For example if the NWO came in the spring of 2001, come the following Wrestlemania they would have been a spent force and the Rock-Hogan match would have lost a lot of its shine IMO.
And although Goldberg never made the impact we hoped for, to me, it was better he came in on his own in 2003 (I think) than as part of a group in 2001 that was doomed to fail.
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@brit_figs
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WF 10 Year Member
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Post by @brit_figs on Apr 21, 2020 6:59:04 GMT -5
I gotta say, I loved the invasion angle when it was on - it was exciting! I'll never forget Hardy vs RVD.
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WWF Sim Fed
Superstar
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Post by WWF Sim Fed on Apr 21, 2020 7:27:38 GMT -5
While watch some of the old post Monday Night Wars era stuff on the network and the WCW/ECW Invasion of WWF in the summer of 2001 go me wondering what could have been.Seems like the WWF and Vince himself set up WCW to fail from the start for some reason even with the rumors and reports that WWF was interested in bring back WCW as its own brand and have its own show on TNN.Just never understood why the 1st so called WCW match was between Booker T & Buff Bagwell in a town and state that never gave a rats ass about WCW,and then having such a shallow roster in terms of WCW as the bigger names wanted to sit out and collect their money from AOL. Anyways thought that even with the WCW talent not being ideal and the debut match being trash that the angle could have been easily saved and that WCW as its own brand could have worked.Never understood instead of turn Austin heel again and joining the Invasion angle which he then became the soul focus why other former WCW guys weren't included and push instead of Austin who should have stayed face and in the WWF. Again a little fantasy booking but with WCW talent being so shallow why not have the like of Chris Jericho,Big Show,Faarooq,Dean Malenko,Perry Saturn instead join WCW and push them instead ? also ECW never should have been involved at all and the talent should have been divided up between the WWF & WCW. If a major name was need for WCW always felt like bring back Mick Foley would have worked.In the summer of 2001 he was like 35 or 36 and was already retired for well over a year,he would have been perfect as the major star for the brand until more of the bigger named WCW guys became available.So bottom line really felt like the WWF dropped the ball on what could have been a big time angle and money maker. the WWF version of WCW could have easily had a roster of Booker T,Buff Bagwell,Cactus Jack,Chris Jericho,The Giant,Lance Storm,Mike Awesome,Raven,Ron Simmons & Rob Van Dam with Shane McMahon & Arn Anderson in the authority roles and also brought in Joey Styles for the play by play.Something like this would have been more then enough to carry the brand and give WCW some new life with all former WCW talents and most of the guys listed in their primes besides DDP & Simmons.
Vince may have said that he wanted WCW to be its own brand but what what he did with ECW. We all know Vince could've booked an insane WCW at that time with the roster he had and future attractions back such as Rey Mysterio, nWo, etc. But we all know Vince buried WCW and ECW to show how superior WWF was. With a WCW brand it would be hard to differentiate it from that and who owns WWF from casual fans flipping through. Easier for them to kill it off. I do like your idea if there were a WCW Brand to bring over Cactus Jack, Jericho, Giant and those guys. |
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Apr 21, 2020 12:15:04 GMT -5
Vince legit should have just waited. If he would have waited until 2003 to do the invasion he would have had Goldberg, Steiner, Hogan, Hall, Nash, and others. But then again, when WCW died, Hall wasn't even signed with WCW, Nash was out injured, Hogan was at home, Goldberg was at home, Steiner was injured, so anyone who really watched WCW at the end did see guys like O Haire, Palumbo, DeMott, Chavo and Kidman.
I think WWE was doomed either way. Wait too long, it won't matter. Do the invasion with lesser than main event talent, doesn't matter.
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Post by Mongo Bears on Apr 21, 2020 12:42:42 GMT -5
I left pro wrestling in 2000 and I’m glad I missed the invasion/takeover angle. Wrestling was dead for me and has been dead since. Whatever could have been, still would never have kept me.
I still love my 85-00 though!
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Post by K5 on Apr 21, 2020 23:48:30 GMT -5
I gotta say, I loved the invasion angle when it was on - it was exciting! I'll never forget Hardy vs RVD. yep. the entire invasion ppv felt surreal. |
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jking1979
Superstar
Joined on: Oct 3, 2019 20:00:02 GMT -5
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Post by jking1979 on Apr 22, 2020 21:50:47 GMT -5
I like how the WCW champion Booker T was part of the invasion. It still isn't a real invasion without Sting and Ric Flair.
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Post by JokerFC on Apr 25, 2020 9:21:12 GMT -5
Vince had serious options to make this work and create stars but Vince & Steph never bothered their hole doing it because they preferred to flush $$$$ and pad their ego than give the fans what they wanted. Ratings decline shows folks weren't into it and were disappointed.
He had the tools to make it work. Easy hits to get the angle pumping...
1) Drop grudges for the sake of making $$. That means taking Douglas contract and using him FFS.
2) Scrap the stalker storyline....good God.
3) Benoit is going out injured..you give the invaders credit for that 100%..and in doing so have a storyline waiting for Benoit on his return. Give it to someone like Lance Storm who could have used the rub. He even adopts the "Candian Crippler" moniker to mick Benoit. Benoit was hot when he got injured...this would have worked.
4) Use Mike Awesome as one of the main guys. Yes he did the dirt on Heyman but he was hardly the only one & business first.
5) Jericho turns @ Invasion & takes the belt off Austin @ Summerslam. Nuclear heat from the turn & cemented as the top guy by going over Austin.
6) Big Show...why wasn't he utilised? He certainly could have gave the Invaders more credibility but then again nobody was interested in that.
7) Rhino in particular shouldn't have debuted until the Invasion angle...his role as a bystander for March/April/May took the shine off him. Had he debuted as part of the Invasion? We would have had another player.
8) People on here will always say Vince couldn't afford Goldberg. Bullsh*t. The buyrate for Invasion was a monster...if Goldberg had been on there? It would have paid for his buyout no problem.
9) Flair should have been earnestly negotiated with to participate. Flair has said he was willing....Flair as the head of WCW & Heyman as the head of ECW? Now we are cooking.
But all the above hinges on folks wanting to do the angle properly. Which they never did.
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