walter7paisley
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Post by walter7paisley on Jun 14, 2023 11:30:20 GMT -5
I don't totally disagree, but I don't necessarily feel that anything nefarious is taking place, or that we're being misled. It's basically a case of them needing our money in order to make the concepts that they're selling. A little like the Dragons Den, we're basically the backers, except we're not getting any cut of the profits or the business, and generally we're waiting too long for the product. I do think that these companies should be more transparent in what they're doing, which is crowdfunding. But I also feel that we should be going into these pre-orders with the knowledge that the products are gonna differ somewhat from the concepts we're being drawn in by, and that production and distribution is gonna be slow, very, very slow. Quality has often been lacking in the final product as well. Where the Major Pod prevail is in having the funds to back their own lines, but where they fall short is in their dealings with other companies who are totally crowdfunding in the same exact way that the company they're ridiculing is doing, which paints them as hypocrites, which is definitely shady behaviour. As long as the customer is actually receiving the figure they pre-ordered, with the quality that was promised, in the time specified, allowing for the odd inevitable delay, then I don't suppose it matters what their funds are being used for as long as what they paid for is delivered. That's my take, anyway. Sure, but nothing is being delivered in the time specified. Which begs the question, are they misappropriating the funds in such a way that causes the delays. Hastel has proven that it’s possible to keep to a time line. How do we know that epic hasn’t cut corners to ensure a bigger profit but making for a longer turn around on production despite the time line they provided? That would be sleazy but not out of the realm of possibility. Well, we don't know, and we likely won't know those things, so anything is possible. I'm willing to give these companies the benefit of the doubt, though, to some extent. I think they're just in over their heads, Chella most definitely were. It's a big task and a big responsibility, especially when other people's money is riding on it as well as your own. |
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3poajamie
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Post by 3poajamie on Jun 14, 2023 15:58:48 GMT -5
I don't totally disagree, but I don't necessarily feel that anything nefarious is taking place, or that we're being misled. It's basically a case of them needing our money in order to make the concepts that they're selling. A little like the Dragons Den, we're basically the backers, except we're not getting any cut of the profits or the business, and generally we're waiting too long for the product. I do think that these companies should be more transparent in what they're doing, which is crowdfunding. But I also feel that we should be going into these pre-orders with the knowledge that the products are gonna differ somewhat from the concepts we're being drawn in by, and that production and distribution is gonna be slow, very, very slow. Quality has often been lacking in the final product as well. Where the Major Pod prevail is in having the funds to back their own lines, but where they fall short is in their dealings with other companies who are totally crowdfunding in the same exact way that the company they're ridiculing is doing, which paints them as hypocrites, which is definitely shady behaviour. As long as the customer is actually receiving the figure they pre-ordered, with the quality that was promised, in the time specified, allowing for the odd inevitable delay, then I don't suppose it matters what their funds are being used for as long as what they paid for is delivered. That's my take, anyway. Sure, but nothing is being delivered in the time specified. Which begs the question, are they misappropriating the funds in such a way that causes the delays. Hastel has proven that it’s possible to keep to a time line. How do we know that epic hasn’t cut corners to ensure a bigger profit but making for a longer turn around on production despite the time line they provided? That would be sleazy but not out of the realm of possibility. As an FYI mate, the previous owner did a runner with the profits from the pre-orders listed before the Wrestling Trader guys took over. So naturally they are operating at a massive loss at the moment to get these made and get the company back to where it should be and also so people actually get their figures. I appreciate you may not care about any of the behind the scenes stuff and just want your figures/just want to moan but they are getting there. It may have taken longer than expected but surely it’s better late than never? |
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master_fuji
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Post by master_fuji on Jun 15, 2023 4:55:28 GMT -5
Sure, but nothing is being delivered in the time specified. Which begs the question, are they misappropriating the funds in such a way that causes the delays. Hastel has proven that it’s possible to keep to a time line. How do we know that epic hasn’t cut corners to ensure a bigger profit but making for a longer turn around on production despite the time line they provided? That would be sleazy but not out of the realm of possibility. As an FYI mate, the previous owner did a runner with the profits from the pre-orders listed before the Wrestling Trader guys took over. So naturally they are operating at a massive loss at the moment to get these made and get the company back to where it should be and also so people actually get their figures. I appreciate you may not care about any of the behind the scenes stuff and just want your figures/just want to moan but they are getting there. It may have taken longer than expected but surely it’s better late than never? Did Wrestling Trader do zero due diligence when taking on this whole thing? Given this growing list of complaints from Wrestling Trader about Chella, why didn't they start their own endeavour? Were Chella even a registered company? |
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3poajamie
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Post by 3poajamie on Jun 15, 2023 5:09:21 GMT -5
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3poajamie
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Post by 3poajamie on Jun 15, 2023 5:13:03 GMT -5
As an FYI mate, the previous owner did a runner with the profits from the pre-orders listed before the Wrestling Trader guys took over. So naturally they are operating at a massive loss at the moment to get these made and get the company back to where it should be and also so people actually get their figures. I appreciate you may not care about any of the behind the scenes stuff and just want your figures/just want to moan but they are getting there. It may have taken longer than expected but surely it’s better late than never? Did Wrestling Trader do zero due diligence when taking on this whole thing? Given this growing list of complaints from Wrestling Trader about Chella, why didn't they start their own endeavour? Were Chella even a registered company? Obviously I don’t know the full ins and outs about the finance side of things, just what I’ve been told as it’s sort of none of my business. I know that was a lot that they were not aware had not been paid and more and more come out the woodwork. |
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@Chair.Shot
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Post by @Chair.Shot on Jun 15, 2023 11:06:58 GMT -5
That isn’t a great situation to be in but everything about this business is a huge gamble. I’m hoping by this time next year they will be a well oiled machine. Some complaints are valid as not everyone knows the details or the behind the scenes stuff. Even if they did, not everyone would feel the same about it.
Not everyone wants the truth because it’s not a fun answer. Why don’t we have our figures yet? Because factories make mistakes, they often lie by over promising and under delivering. This is especially true of factories not owned by a company. So the best Rush, WSW, Epic, Zombie, and G&G can do is to provide us with the timeline they are given. Unfortunately those time tables are rarely accurate due to all of the issues and delays. It can be a material shortage, a natural disaster such as an earthquake or a typhoon, or it could be a snake of a factory who takes on bigger customers and bumps the smaller guys. Let’s not forget the quality control aspect of it.
Honestly I think Mitch is doing it right at this time. He is taking a loss by trying to establish his credibility. He has delivered products in well under a year. He is paying extra to expedite things. He is listening to the feedback of the people and he is also keeping some news to himself so that he doesn’t have people riding him about figures that won’t go into production for at least another year or two. He is able to learn from the mistakes of others and it could very well prove to be the best way to do business.
All that said, returning to the whole “you can’t handle the truth” but I rambled about earlier. Although Epic Toys did update us with a new delivery window…they responded to comments about Sabu simply with “Due later this year.” It wasn’t until someone with a bigger fan following asked the same question that they said “Sabu is due later this year, should have some up to date pictures for people to see soon.” That right there is an honest answer. Could be another 6 months for all they know. It sucks to hear it and it is vague but why else would they say it if they had concrete information? I guess it might be nice to tell people why there are delays but it’s possible people will grow frustrated with what they might view as no confidence or incompetence. Me? I’ll just be a good lad and wait for my Haku.
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3poajamie
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Post by 3poajamie on Jun 15, 2023 12:26:34 GMT -5
That isn’t a great situation to be in but everything about this business is a huge gamble. I’m hoping by this time next year they will be a well oiled machine. Some complaints are valid as not everyone knows the details or the behind the scenes stuff. Even if they did, not everyone would feel the same about it. Not everyone wants the truth because it’s not a fun answer. Why don’t we have our figures yet? Because factories make mistakes, they often lie by over promising and under delivering. This is especially true of factories not owned by a company. So the best Rush, WSW, Epic, Zombie, and G&G can do is to provide us with the timeline they are given. Unfortunately those time tables are rarely accurate due to all of the issues and delays. It can be a material shortage, a natural disaster such as an earthquake or a typhoon, or it could be a snake of a factory who takes on bigger customers and bumps the smaller guys. Let’s not forget the quality control aspect of it. Honestly I think Mitch is doing it right at this time. He is taking a loss by trying to establish his credibility. He has delivered products in well under a year. He is paying extra to expedite things. He is listening to the feedback of the people and he is also keeping some news to himself so that he doesn’t have people riding him about figures that won’t go into production for at least another year or two. He is able to learn from the mistakes of others and it could very well prove to be the best way to do business. All that said, returning to the whole “you can’t handle the truth” but I rambled about earlier. Although Epic Toys did update us with a new delivery window…they responded to comments about Sabu simply with “Due later this year.” It wasn’t until someone with a bigger fan following asked the same question that they said “Sabu is due later this year, should have some up to date pictures for people to see soon.” That right there is an honest answer. Could be another 6 months for all they know. It sucks to hear it and it is vague but why else would they say it if they had concrete information? I guess it might be nice to tell people why there are delays but it’s possible people will grow frustrated with what they might view as no confidence or incompetence. Me? I’ll just be a good lad and wait for my Haku. The thing about the factory is spot on, any updates Epic get they share it but this means they are at the mercy of the factory which is frustrating. Obviously once we get the G+G figures in hand then we can say more but Mitch has 100% done things right so far, great to see. Can not wait for the Sabu to be with everyone tbh, I haven’t ordered one, I would just like to stop seeing the “where’s Sabu” question every time Epic post, I appreciate people are frustrated and Chella should not have put it up for preorder last year but factory are saying end of summer and that’s all there is to go off. For series 2, the update given earlier was an accurate one. We saw our Joeys at the stage that S2 are currently at and 10 days or so later they are on card and being shipped to us |
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3poajamie
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Post by 3poajamie on Jun 21, 2023 4:18:47 GMT -5
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@Chair.Shot
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Post by @Chair.Shot on Jun 21, 2023 23:00:56 GMT -5
Small rant about hypocrisy…there is a fair chance Matthew Cardona is reading this. For someone who likes to complain about clickbait articles and dirtsheets, do you not see the similarities by making vague comments about Epic Toys screwing someone over and lying? Why even bother bringing it up at all if you aren’t going to do something? Saying that it isn’t your place to tell the story is fine if that person plans on sharing that story. But if not, what is the point of you gossiping? That doesn’t make you the Michael Jordan of wrestling figure collecting. That makes you the Dave Meltzer Ryan Satin of the wrestling figure community. Do better.
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Post by Ruby Fusion on Jun 22, 2023 4:49:27 GMT -5
Small rant about hypocrisy…there is a fair chance Matthew Cardona is reading this. For someone who likes to complain about clickbait articles and dirtsheets, do you not see the similarities by making vague comments about Epic Toys screwing someone over and lying? Why even bother bringing it up at all if you aren’t going to do something? Saying that it isn’t your place to tell the story is fine if that person plans on sharing that story. But if not, what is the point of you gossiping? That doesn’t make you the Michael Jordan of wrestling figure collecting. That makes you the Dave Meltzer Ryan Satin of the wrestling figure community. Do better. No idea who you're targetting here - Cardona or Epic Toys - but it's kind of a useless rant. The previous post explains the Valentine delay. You want to rant at Cardona or Epic Toys, go bark at their trees: they DO have their own social media pages... |
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@Chair.Shot
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Post by @Chair.Shot on Jun 22, 2023 10:08:37 GMT -5
Small rant about hypocrisy…there is a fair chance Matthew Cardona is reading this. For someone who likes to complain about clickbait articles and dirtsheets, do you not see the similarities by making vague comments about Epic Toys screwing someone over and lying? Why even bother bringing it up at all if you aren’t going to do something? Saying that it isn’t your place to tell the story is fine if that person plans on sharing that story. But if not, what is the point of you gossiping? That doesn’t make you the Michael Jordan of wrestling figure collecting. That makes you the Dave Meltzer Ryan Satin of the wrestling figure community. Do better. No idea who you're targetting here - Cardona or Epic Toys - but it's kind of a useless rant. The previous post explains the Valentine delay. You want to rant at Cardona or Epic Toys, go bark at their trees: they DO have their own social media pages... You have known me for years now so please believe me when I say that the previous message nor this one is a meaningless rant. I definitely shouldn’t have used the word rant nor should I have gone about it in a personal way. I make no excuses and apologize for not addressing it in a broader way. It is part of a much bigger discussion but an important one. After this post, I will try to keep my posts shorter and less rough around the edges. If you’re not sure about anything I am sharing, then please ask. To help you better understand, Matt Cardona has spoken negatively of Epic Toys for the second time in recent weeks. I’m not against that as I am not a tribalist. I do take issue with the unethical way he is going about mentioning it each week but I will leave that alone. If you need me to elaborate, I can do so in private messages or on social media as you suggested. My actual goal or concern here has more to do with protecting the reputation of a company or protecting the money of the wrestling figure community (myself included). So why not go to social media about it to begin with? Let’s be real. If someone has a fanbase and you bring up a sensitive issue that they helped to create, you more often than not get drowned out by sycophants and quite possibly will be banned/blocked. This forum is a more neutral venue. I have proven to be a fair critique of the MWFP and defended them at times that others have unfairly attacked them. Again, please trust in what I am saying as there is actual importance in what is happening right now. Either a small company is being unfairly attacked or a customer base is in jeopardy of having their money misused/taken. This is the problem with spreading rumors and only releasing partial information. I invite Epic Toys and anyone from the MWFP to speak directly to this here or elsewhere. |
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Post by casanova on Jun 22, 2023 10:36:21 GMT -5
There is a code for 10% at figurecollection by supermultiverse. Their IG account is recommended. Not mad at anybody anymore.
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Post by Ruby Fusion on Jun 22, 2023 13:40:38 GMT -5
No idea who you're targetting here - Cardona or Epic Toys - but it's kind of a useless rant. The previous post explains the Valentine delay. You want to rant at Cardona or Epic Toys, go bark at their trees: they DO have their own social media pages... You have known me for years now so please believe me when I say that the previous message nor this one is a meaningless rant. I definitely shouldn’t have used the word rant nor should I have gone about it in a personal way. I make no excuses and apologize for not addressing it in a broader way. It is part of a much bigger discussion but an important one. After this post, I will try to keep my posts shorter and less rough around the edges. If you’re not sure about anything I am sharing, then please ask. To help you better understand, Matt Cardona has spoken negatively of Epic Toys for the second time in recent weeks. I’m not against that as I am not a tribalist. I do take issue with the unethical way he is going about mentioning it each week but I will leave that alone. If you need me to elaborate, I can do so in private messages or on social media as you suggested. My actual goal or concern here has more to do with protecting the reputation of a company or protecting the money of the wrestling figure community (myself included). So why not go to social media about it to begin with? Let’s be real. If someone has a fanbase and you bring up a sensitive issue that they helped to create, you more often than not get drowned out by sycophants and quite possibly will be banned/blocked. This forum is a more neutral venue. I have proven to be a fair critique of the MWFP and defended them at times that others have unfairly attacked them. Again, please trust in what I am saying as there is actual importance in what is happening right now. Either a small company is being unfairly attacked or a customer base is in jeopardy of having their money misused/taken. This is the problem with spreading rumors and only releasing partial information. I invite Epic Toys and anyone from the MWFP to speak directly to this here or elsewhere. Personally I never had trouble ordering from Chella (besides the fact their MOCs were far from being case fresh MOMCs). I don't know why Epic Toys had to take over, nor have I ordered from Epic Toys, however I DO realise taking over is not something that goes smoothly. Since both companies are from the UK and I live in Europe, I guess getting my order (when they have it in stock) should be rather quickly. My guess is that most impatient complainers (including Cardona!) are U.S. citizens; they're not accustomed to patiently await a package. They're used to walk into the store, buy their mass-produced $20.00 wrestling figure and happily go home. Now there are these small companies who simply CAN'T mass-produce $20.00 figures, who have to work through pre-orders and might be located outside of the U.S. while maybe partnering with a U.S. dealer where they will ship to before that dealer can ship to the U.S. citizen. I have all the faith in these small companies, sadly that means the U.S. experiences the waiting game. As a European I play that game for over 25 years...  |
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britishbrickfan
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Post by britishbrickfan on Jun 23, 2023 3:16:02 GMT -5
My guess is that most impatient complainers (including Cardona!) are U.S. citizens; they're not accustomed to patiently await a package. They're used to walk into the store, buy their mass-produced $20.00 wrestling figure and happily go home. Now there are these small companies who simply CAN'T mass-produce $20.00 figures, who have to work through pre-orders and might be located outside of the U.S. while maybe partnering with a U.S. dealer where they will ship to before that dealer can ship to the U.S. citizen. I have all the faith in these small companies, sadly that means the U.S. experiences the waiting game. As a European I play that game for over 25 years... for me, Cardona is using his influence unfairly, to impact a competitor to the company that Cardona receives income from - if ZST sales soar for Cardona figures, Matt makes a profit
if Epic/G&G/FC/Rush etc figures harm Zombie's market share (and price-wise, they will) then ZST's sales are likely to be lower, and Cardona makes less money... so he's hardly an impartial voice in the conversation
now, I have no interest in buying any ZST figure unless it's in stock and available to ship tomorrow. the guy is a grifter, and he's failed to deliver products on time or within a realistic timeframe with no communication consistently, yet MWFP praise him at every turn (because they've profited from his work) but he was bragging about making a quarter of a million dollars of profit from Series 1, and he's still pulling the crowdfunding scam going into Series 3 and beyond, so I personally refuse to buy any of his figures through a pre-order mechanism going forward
MWFP are not a positive influence on the community right now - the WCW entrance was an example of this, people didn't want it, so they constantly pushed the "Don't buy it for you, but invest your money that you don't want to spend for the others to get one and sell yours!" narrative, and that's a bad message for an "influencer" to be sending to a community
money is tight for many, and having famous people misusing their platform to convince people who may have FOMO that "This is you doing your part for everyone else" is not a positive or morally right thing to do
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@Chair.Shot
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Post by @Chair.Shot on Jun 23, 2023 4:09:02 GMT -5
It is up to you believe what you want but Cardona has gone on record saying that they do not own any part of Zombie’s company. If that is the case, your entire theory is shot.
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britishbrickfan
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Post by britishbrickfan on Jun 23, 2023 15:08:24 GMT -5
It is up to you believe what you want but Cardona has gone on record saying that they do not own any part of Zombie’s company. If that is the case, your entire theory is shot. Cardona receives royalties for each Cardona figure sold (two under ZST so far)
Myers receives royalties for each of his figures sold...
the rest of the MWFP crew will receive royalties for their figures (Sterling for example) so no, my theory isn't shot, they have a vested interest for ZST's line to produce more figures and bring in more income for themselves
Rush/Epic/G&G/FC - none of these are making Cardona or Myers any money, so they're incentivised to take it easier on ZST despite the failures he's delivered to date (failed deadlines, figures with paint rubbing off, re-releasing a figure that can't stand...) and none of those issues are ever discussed beyond an initial discussion
hardly an impartial voice in the market, but people speak of them as if their preference is the one to go with
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crush
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Post by crush on Jun 23, 2023 15:27:45 GMT -5
It is up to you believe what you want but Cardona has gone on record saying that they do not own any part of Zombie’s company. If that is the case, your entire theory is shot. Cardona receives royalties for each Cardona figure sold (two under ZST so far)
Myers receives royalties for each of his figures sold... the rest of the MWFP crew will receive royalties for their figures (Sterling for example) so no, my theory isn't shot, they have a vested interest for ZST's line to produce more figures and bring in more income for themselves Rush/Epic/G&G/FC - none of these are making Cardona or Myers any money, so they're incentivised to take it easier on ZST despite the failures he's delivered to date (failed deadlines, figures with paint rubbing off, re-releasing a figure that can't stand...) and none of those issues are ever discussed beyond an initial discussion hardly an impartial voice in the market, but people speak of them as if their preference is the one to go with
TBF, they were supposed to have Rush and FC figures at one point or another, so conceivably the would have been making money from those companies and have had a vested interest in them succeeding. Now, one could argue that the fact that those figures seemingly aren’t coming out might affect that, which is fair. Though they have buried Super 7 a ton. My overall point is that I think their “going easier” on Zombie (which is debatable) has more to do with the fact they had a friendship with him than it does money. |
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@Chair.Shot
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Post by @Chair.Shot on Jun 23, 2023 15:27:50 GMT -5
It is up to you believe what you want but Cardona has gone on record saying that they do not own any part of Zombie’s company. If that is the case, your entire theory is shot. Cardona receives royalties for each Cardona figure sold (two under ZST so far)
Myers receives royalties for each of his figures sold... the rest of the MWFP crew will receive royalties for their figures (Sterling for example) so no, my theory isn't shot, they have a vested interest for ZST's line to produce more figures and bring in more income for themselves Rush/Epic/G&G/FC - none of these are making Cardona or Myers any money, so they're incentivised to take it easier on ZST despite the failures he's delivered to date (failed deadlines, figures with paint rubbing off, re-releasing a figure that can't stand...) and none of those issues are ever discussed beyond an initial discussion hardly an impartial voice in the market, but people speak of them as if their preference is the one to go with
Can you please point out when/where they said they would be receiving royalties? I really seem to recall the comments being made that they were paid a flat fee. |
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britishbrickfan
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Post by britishbrickfan on Jun 24, 2023 1:50:48 GMT -5
Can you please point out when/where they said they would be receiving royalties? I really seem to recall the comments being made that they were paid a flat fee. royalties/fee/cut of profits
whatever you want to call it, Cardona and Myers are in receipt of money from ZST that they're not in receipt of from other manufacturers... which doesn't make them impartial on the matter
in the last week, Chella's designs for Cardona and Myers "elite" style figures have come out too, so are they miffed that Chella f'd up their opportunity to receive another payment? is that why Cardona was so critical of the new management, because their figures were effectively shelved?
face it - if they're going to get money from ZST, they're not going to crapon the product despite it's failings. and that's where they're not impartial. Chella's recent figures are much better than the earlier designs, the product has improved.
ZST didn't even make any changes between green and purple Sabu - he re-released a figure which cannot stand on its own two feet unaided. and MWFP never pointed out "You're wasting your money on a product with the same failings as before", because they don't care, they're just interested in plugging the line for a friend, because they benefit from the sales of their own figures
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Post by casanova on Jun 26, 2023 3:31:15 GMT -5
Cardona receives royalties for each Cardona figure sold (two under ZST so far)
Myers receives royalties for each of his figures sold... the rest of the MWFP crew will receive royalties for their figures (Sterling for example) so no, my theory isn't shot, they have a vested interest for ZST's line to produce more figures and bring in more income for themselves Rush/Epic/G&G/FC - none of these are making Cardona or Myers any money, so they're incentivised to take it easier on ZST despite the failures he's delivered to date (failed deadlines, figures with paint rubbing off, re-releasing a figure that can't stand...) and none of those issues are ever discussed beyond an initial discussion hardly an impartial voice in the market, but people speak of them as if their preference is the one to go with
TBF, they were supposed to have Rush and FC figures at one point or another, so conceivably the would have been making money from those companies and have had a vested interest in them succeeding. Now, one could argue that the fact that those figures seemingly aren’t coming out might affect that, which is fair. Though they have buried Super 7 a ton. My overall point is that I think their “going easier” on Zombie (which is debatable) has more to do with the fact they had a friendship with him than it does money. I hate comparing these different brands, but maybe it’s just because ZST is the overall better brand. He is not the fastest in delivering, but at least there is no owner drama (Chella). The delivered overall quality is better than anything else that has been delivered to date. I have most Retro figures that have been released to date and ZSTs are easily my favorites. |
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