HeelPiper
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Post by HeelPiper on Mar 24, 2022 20:28:12 GMT -5
I've been wondering something similar. Some of the comments during the AEW Q&A really surprised me - they seemed to back away from anything that could have even the most vague WWE association in ways that just doesn't line up with the laws as far as I understand them, or some relevant precedents like the Storm Hogan figures or Acclaim games. Right now I'm taking a wait and see approach. All of the answers in the q&a were super vague, and right now we have two Luminaries figures to make assumptions off of, one of which is gear from 12 months ago. We can look at the AEW Micro Brawler Sting, which uses two Surfer looks and is under AEW branding. But overall I'm wondering if they simply decided it's not worth any potential legal fight, even if they'd eventually win. Jazwares isn't a large company, and WWE is notoriously litigious. Maybe it's easier to play it safe than run the risk of a lawsuit from WWE and get tied up financially and in terms of product. It's just a shame, because ultimately collectors are left in the middle - Mattel will only work from the limited roster WWE provides to them, and Jazwares has talent we want, but may not be willing to come within a country mile of the attires we care about. Great post! Those precedents you speak of are what really muddy the waters right? I never thought about the hypothetical situation were Jazwares (knowing they would likely win a challenge) simply wouldn't want the headache or legal fees. These micro brawlers are what really confuse me, they do everything. So many excellent points made throughout this thread. |
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Post by PJ on Mar 24, 2022 20:58:11 GMT -5
I'm very curious/excited what Jazwares is going to put out with Owen. Especially since Martha has successfully sued WWE on separate occasions, one being over Owen's likeness use. I would think the only thing off limits would be the Slammy, for obvious reasons, and maybe the King of Harts logo. I have the Micro Brawler of Owen in the black and pink. So I would assume, at a minimum, they can do him in his 94-97 gear without any logos. I think we could potentially be getting a 97 Hart Foundation version of him at some point with the jacket. I don't think WWE is going to be pushing back in any way, shape, or form on the Owen stuff. That's barking up the wrong tree, even for them. Same. I don’t see any issues with the pink and black Owen attires unless it’s something like the slammy attire etc. I remember someone saying that we wouldn’t be able to get WCW Sting which is not true. WWE does not own his likeness. The only thing we wouldn’t be able to get is a Sting with a nWo logo, which is fine because he wore plenty Wolfpac attires without it. Trevor had said with their RSC American Sting Jakks exclusive they had a very small window of years they could get because the WWE had the rights to the WCW Sting. So they could only do a small percentage of his surfer attires. |
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Post by Joe/Smurf on Mar 24, 2022 20:59:53 GMT -5
trademark and copyright are two different things. if the gear in question came from WWE's design department, they very likely would have the trademark on that gear.
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jacobl18
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Post by jacobl18 on Mar 24, 2022 21:33:11 GMT -5
On Steve Austin’s PWTees website he is selling Tshirts that have images from him in WWE. The famous blood face from his WM match with Bret is one that stands out. How does WWE not own that image?
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Post by GreyHaze:Big Bad Booty Daddy on Mar 24, 2022 21:38:01 GMT -5
Same. I don’t see any issues with the pink and black Owen attires unless it’s something like the slammy attire etc. I remember someone saying that we wouldn’t be able to get WCW Sting which is not true. WWE does not own his likeness. The only thing we wouldn’t be able to get is a Sting with a nWo logo, which is fine because he wore plenty Wolfpac attires without it. Trevor had said with their RSC American Sting Jakks exclusive they had a very small window of years they could get because the WWE had the rights to the WCW Sting. So they could only do a small percentage of his surfer attires. I think Jeremy from Jazwares put up a poll on twitter and had almost every era of Sting up. Kind of weird that they would own certain surfer Sting attires. I doubt WWE would pick point a single Sting attire. I don’t even think they would be able to differentiate the different surfer attires by eras. |
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razorrock
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Post by razorrock on Mar 24, 2022 21:44:02 GMT -5
On Steve Austin’s PWTees website he is selling Tshirts that have images from him in WWE. The famous blood face from his WM match with Bret is one that stands out. How does WWE not own that image? Didn't he have to work out a deal with wwe to use his stone cold nickname? I imagine part of that deal may be that he get to use images of himself from wwe? |
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Post by Fighter Hayabusa on Mar 24, 2022 21:56:09 GMT -5
I view it as any character on a TV show. For example you can be a company and license Michael Richard likeness but you can’t make a figure of him in anything Kramer wore. You can’t copyright an outfit but if that outfit clearly is associated with that character then you’ll likely get hit with a lawsuit if you’re trying to profit on their IP. Same with Hall showing up on Nitro. You can’t really copyright someone’s accent but when Hall was speaking in a Razor cadence they were able to sue and win.
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crush
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Post by crush on Mar 24, 2022 22:08:05 GMT -5
In addition to what everything else has said, there's also instances that it doesn't only have to do with specific ownership of gear and logos, there's also intellectual property. To use the HYPOTHETICAL Owen example: Even if WWE doesn't specifically own the rights to an Owen attire, if the ONLY place he wore said attire is in WWE and then Jazzwares made a figure of it, WWE could claim that Jazzwares is infringing on their IP, and if the wrestler doesn't specifically own the rights to the gear, WWE would probably have a case. Now that said, there's more nuance to these things and not every case is this same (for example, I used Owen but for all I know Owen might own the rights to all his gear), but in general that's part of the reason why Jazzwares can't just make WWE-era attires that were only worn in WWE. And this goes the other way as well. Mattel can't just make, say, Seth Rollins in ROH-era Tyler Black gear that he never wore in FCW/NXT gear.
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Post by Fighter Hayabusa on Mar 25, 2022 7:40:25 GMT -5
Another example would be when Doink showed up in WWF. Even though flannel and jorts can’t be copyrighted doesn’t mean that Hasbro could make a Big Josh figure just because Osborne was now under contract.
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kinnikuman
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Post by kinnikuman on Mar 25, 2022 9:48:55 GMT -5
It all has to do with if WWE designed it themselves.
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crush
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Post by crush on Mar 25, 2022 10:00:14 GMT -5
It all has to do with if WWE designed it themselves. It's really more complex than that. It also has to do with intellectual property as well. Again, WWE didn't design anyone's WCW tights, but if Jazzwares made an exact 1004 Holds list Jericho, WWE could argue that since Jericho only appeared like that on what is now WWE-owned intellectual property, that the figure is infringing on their IP. However, Jazzwares could of course tweak the gear so it's not exactly the same, but WWE could litigate back and forth on that if they so chose. |
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rodeoflounder
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Post by rodeoflounder on Mar 25, 2022 10:10:07 GMT -5
It all has to do with if WWE designed it themselves. It's really more complex than that. It also has to do with intellectual property as well. Again, WWE didn't design anyone's WCW tights, but if Jazzwares made an exact 1004 Holds list Jericho, WWE could argue that since Jericho only appeared like that on what is now WWE-owned intellectual property, that the figure is infringing on their IP. However, Jazzwares could of course tweak the gear so it's not exactly the same, but WWE could litigate back and forth on that if they so chose. ^^^ Bingo. There is a great deal of room for interpretation in this stuff - like I said in a previous post, IP and everything related to it is a relatively new concept. I want a pink and black Owen as much as the next guy, but I don't think Jazzwares wants to push their luck and will likely stay pretty far away from it. Especially so if WWE's Creative Department (which 100% does exist) designed the gear. I hope not, but I'm certain they'd rather avoid the IP issues altogether. As a matter of fact, isn't the rumor that they'll be primarily focused on his Japan appearances? |
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crush
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Post by crush on Mar 25, 2022 10:46:10 GMT -5
It's really more complex than that. It also has to do with intellectual property as well. Again, WWE didn't design anyone's WCW tights, but if Jazzwares made an exact 1004 Holds list Jericho, WWE could argue that since Jericho only appeared like that on what is now WWE-owned intellectual property, that the figure is infringing on their IP. However, Jazzwares could of course tweak the gear so it's not exactly the same, but WWE could litigate back and forth on that if they so chose. ^^^ Bingo. There is a great deal of room for interpretation in this stuff - like I said in a previous post, IP and everything related to it is a relatively new concept. I want a pink and black Owen as much as the next guy, but I don't think Jazzwares wants to push their luck and will likely stay pretty far away from it. Especially so if WWE's Creative Department (which 100% does exist) designed the gear. I hope not, but I'm certain they'd rather avoid the IP issues altogether. As a matter of fact, isn't the rumor that they'll be primarily focused on his Japan appearances? Yup. Owen is an interesting one. I still wonder if if they could do a plain black or pink singlet with the say the Owen Hart Foundation logo. Obviously the Micro Brawler got away with that, but Jazzwares in conjunction with the Owen tournament might be higher on WWE's radar than a 200 piece Brawler run. |
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Post by Fighter Hayabusa on Mar 25, 2022 11:54:59 GMT -5
And with Owen, Jazwares knows that any figure of him will sell. There’s no need to risk unnecessary litigation by making a WWE inspired attire. They’re gonna make something from Stampede or Japan and it’ll sell out. Maybe down the road they’ll test the waters but I wouldn’t expect Rocket, King of Harts, Two Time Slammy, Black Hart, Enough is Enough, Danger, etc inspired looks anytime soon.
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Post by PJ on Mar 25, 2022 12:15:23 GMT -5
I'm genuinely curious as to why it appears that so many people think that outside of owning their own copyrighted intellectual properties (example Razor Ramon) that WWE also owns the image of a wrestler's ring gear? Unless said ring gear actually has a logo or brand name that WWE has expressly copyrighted, how could that even work? They own the name "Razor Ramon" for example,and no other company could touch that IP, but how could they ever own something like Owen Hart's "Caution" attire? It doesn't make sense, it's like saying that Jeff Hardy can't wear a shirt he's worn in WWE somewhere elsewhere. He just did FYI. I even saw the Jazwares guys pretty much allude to trying to stick to territories and looks that WWE doesn't own, but that doesn't make sense to me. WWE owns Kerry Von Erich in yellow trunks because they own the Parade of Champions footage? Again, that sounds absurd to me. It's also contradicted constantly by other licensed wrestling figures. I'd love to hear some of your thoughts and insights into this topic for sure! First did Owen wear that attire anywhere other than the WWE? And who came up with the gimmick the WWE or Owen? Who made the attire the WWE’s tailors or did Owen pay to have it made? If he never wore it in any other company (which I am sure he didn’t wear it before going to the wwe) I guess Vince copyrighted the gimmick. I am pretty sure Mick Foley verified in a video or on a dvd that Vince would do that with any gimmick/name the WWE came up with making it their intellectual property. So back to the caution tape (or any Owen attire) if Owen didn’t wear them prior to joining the WWE all those gimmick attires like “caution tampe”, “King of Hearts”, etc are all things Vince would have made sure or part of the WWE’s IP. |
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crush
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Post by crush on Mar 25, 2022 12:40:45 GMT -5
but how could they ever own something like Owen Hart's "Caution" attire? It doesn't make sense, it's like saying that Jeff Hardy can't wear a shirt he's worn in WWE somewhere elsewhere. He just did FYI. They likely don't own the caution tape attire, but since Owen never wore the caution tape attire anywhere but WWE, WWE could claim that Jazzwares is infringing on their IP by producing an Owen that's clearly based on their IP. RE: Jeff, that's kind of the point. He's now worn that shirt on AEW programming, so there's nothing WWE could say if Jazzwares made it. |
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Post by SteveHulk on Mar 25, 2022 16:28:40 GMT -5
It's really more complex than that. It also has to do with intellectual property as well. Again, WWE didn't design anyone's WCW tights, but if Jazzwares made an exact 1004 Holds list Jericho, WWE could argue that since Jericho only appeared like that on what is now WWE-owned intellectual property, that the figure is infringing on their IP. However, Jazzwares could of course tweak the gear so it's not exactly the same, but WWE could litigate back and forth on that if they so chose. ^^^ Bingo. There is a great deal of room for interpretation in this stuff - like I said in a previous post, IP and everything related to it is a relatively new concept. I want a pink and black Owen as much as the next guy, but I don't think Jazzwares wants to push their luck and will likely stay pretty far away from it. Especially so if WWE's Creative Department (which 100% does exist) designed the gear. I hope not, but I'm certain they'd rather avoid the IP issues altogether. As a matter of fact, isn't the rumor that they'll be primarily focused on his Japan appearances? I've heard that too... when did Owen wrestle in Japan - and what attire(s) did he wear? Was it before WWE? |
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crush
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Post by crush on Mar 25, 2022 16:34:03 GMT -5
^^^ Bingo. There is a great deal of room for interpretation in this stuff - like I said in a previous post, IP and everything related to it is a relatively new concept. I want a pink and black Owen as much as the next guy, but I don't think Jazzwares wants to push their luck and will likely stay pretty far away from it. Especially so if WWE's Creative Department (which 100% does exist) designed the gear. I hope not, but I'm certain they'd rather avoid the IP issues altogether. As a matter of fact, isn't the rumor that they'll be primarily focused on his Japan appearances? I've heard that too... when did Owen wrestle in Japan - and what attire(s) did he wear? Was it before WWE? Pre-WWE, and in between his Blue Blazer run and WWE return IIRC. Some of his looks, which just scream chase/rare variants unfortunately:     |
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Post by WCWThunderRosa on Mar 25, 2022 18:08:39 GMT -5
I kinda think Jazwares just don’t want to push too far on flashbacks because they’d rather just avoid the potential of WWE sending them 38 lawsuits, even if the lawsuits don’t have any ground to stand on
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Post by Fighter Hayabusa on Mar 25, 2022 19:09:31 GMT -5
There may be a loophole with Rocket. During the Vince vs USWA angle which seemed like a trial run for the Mr McMahon character where Lawler was the face and Vince kept sending WWF guys to feud with him. Owen did show up and actually won the championship there. Pretty sure he wore the Rocket attire and I don’t believe Vince had any rights to the territory. I wanna say Jerry Jarrett owns it still. May be a stretch but Jazwares could potentially license that look from Jarrett. *yeah he was the Rocket in USWA  |
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