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Post by tmnt316 on Nov 10, 2022 12:18:56 GMT -5
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Post by MKSavage on Nov 10, 2022 12:41:21 GMT -5
Seems like he's confusing worker, wrestler, and sports entertainer; and in some cases he intertwining them. I don't disagree with him when he says that Shawn was a better sports entertainer, he was more outgoing and cockier than Bret, and a better interview. But to say Bret wasn't a great wrestler, is ridiculous. Also, how is he using the term "wrestler"? Because he does say that Bret was a great worker, but not a great wrestler. Is he trying to say that there is a worker side and an entertainer side, and a wrestler is the whole of those two pieces? If that's the case, then there aren't that many good/great wrestlers then, as most are usually one or the other. It seems like he saying to be considered a great wrestler, you have to be a great sports entertainer.
I also agree when he said that losing Bret wasn't going to sink the ship, but losing Shawn (who he praises) wasn't, and didn't either.
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Post by Scott! on Nov 10, 2022 13:45:15 GMT -5
More charisma as an "entertainer"? Yes. But if he seriously thinks (which I don't think he does) that he was a better wrestler than Bret, then he's freaking delusional. I enjoy and have always enjoyed Road Dogg, but if you think I'd pick watching a Road Dogg match over a Bret match? Nah man. Not happening.
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Post by hitmancmedge on Nov 10, 2022 13:48:11 GMT -5
With all due respect Road Dog is an idiot. I’d argue that Bret and Shawn are probably two of the most influential wrestlers of wrestling today. Add in the Hardy’s, and I think so much of current wrestling was influenced by those guys.
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jason1980s
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Joined on: Sept 30, 2009 14:58:56 GMT -5
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Post by jason1980s on Nov 10, 2022 14:21:35 GMT -5
Bret aside, Road Dogg was a pure jobber until the beginnings of the Attitude Era when everyone had something to do and Vince was willing to allow an edgier gimmick like the Road Dogg. He had a small little decent run as Roadie but when returning to WWF in late 1996 he fell flat as the Real Double J. I will say he was a better entertainer than Billy but when he was on his own really wasn't enjoyable. He needed someone like Billy to make him look better on the mic which was what helped a lot of guys who were never over. Godfather who wasn't a great wrestler was finally over after so many gimmicks because Attitude Era relied on talkers so much. Bret could be a top guy in any era but not Road Dogg. Also, in all seriousness, I doubt anyone ever had tears in their eyes being entertained by or watching a wrestling match with Road Dogg.
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Butchers
Superstar
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Post by Butchers on Nov 10, 2022 15:37:28 GMT -5
He contradicts himself about 3 times in that piece, so I'm not even sure he is convinced on what he's talking about lol.
Bret was and still is my favourite wrestler. I agree that Shawn was an overall better entertainer, can't deny that. He's a showman. But, Bret was the better wrestler for me.
At least Roaddogg was honest about himself. He was average at best in ring, great promo and entertainer.
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Teddy Bearburg
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Post by Teddy Bearburg on Nov 10, 2022 15:41:28 GMT -5
Road Dogg tried to clarify his comments:
“That is fair to say and I feel that way today, even though everybody has been really angry at me on Twitter. It’s just my opinion … Hyperbole is the verbiage of the day and everything is the best or the worst, and today, I’m on the worst and so I’m sorry. I’m sorry I shared an opinion on a platform I was given in order to share my opinion.”
“If you ask me to go out there and entertain a crowd, I would have different ways to do that other than grappling and wrestling,” Road Dogg continued. “I stand by that, right now.”
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Post by TKO Propagandist on Nov 10, 2022 15:45:36 GMT -5
Bret is a better sports entertainer than Road Dogg. End of story.
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Post by Scott! on Nov 10, 2022 16:35:38 GMT -5
Road Dogg tried to clarify his comments: “That is fair to say and I feel that way today, even though everybody has been really angry at me on Twitter. It’s just my opinion … Hyperbole is the verbiage of the day and everything is the best or the worst, and today, I’m on the worst and so I’m sorry. I’m sorry I shared an opinion on a platform I was given in order to share my opinion.” “If you ask me to go out there and entertain a crowd, I would have different ways to do that other than grappling and wrestling,” Road Dogg continued. “I stand by that, right now.”
So basically, if you ask him to go out and put on a good wrestling match he'd have other ways of doing that too? I can't think off of the top of my head a single Road Dogg match I've ever wanted to watch back. Point proven. |
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Post by ASR (therockisback) on Nov 10, 2022 17:19:41 GMT -5
I’m a Road Dogg fan but cmon man, you can’t diss the Hitman! He’s arguably the best to ever do it in the ring.
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Post by CM Tusk on Nov 10, 2022 17:32:35 GMT -5
With no due respect, Road Dogg is an idiot. Always has been.
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Teddy Bearburg
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Post by Teddy Bearburg on Nov 10, 2022 17:37:19 GMT -5
I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but I feel like Road Dogg puts his foot in his mouth a lot. And I know he said it was hyperbole but he needs to stop using hyperbole. lol Like, I know people would still be mad at him but I feel like he could have just said what he thought as "Yeah, Bret was a better wrestler in ring than me, but I feel like I was a better sports entertainer. I had more charisma." Like that, to me, is what he was trying to say but he always goes about saying his thoughts in the most asinine way.
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nibs92
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Post by nibs92 on Nov 10, 2022 17:48:10 GMT -5
Strange article.
Agree about his point about Bret leaving. With him and Shawn gone within 6 months of each other, the new cast were allowed to blossom and even if WCW had worked out better for Bret, I don’t think the loss was ever going to have a major effect on the WWF momentum.
In my opinion, he’s way off the mark saying Bret wasn’t great. Was a huge fan of Road Dogg, but he was over with the crowd at a time the whole product was over. Even Mideon running through the crowd ‘naked’ got a huge pop. Bret did ok on the money front and as entertaining as RD was, he was never going to be a huge star in his own right. Had he not clicked with Billy Gunn in the New Age Outlaws, I doubt he’d even be remembered.
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Post by JokerFC on Nov 10, 2022 18:33:28 GMT -5
Cant even begin to take that article seriously. He waffles on, backtracks about 6 times and disagrees with himself twice.
On Bret-he was an incredible wrestler, versatile & his stuff looked GOOD. There are heaps of Bret matches you'd watch over & over. End of discussion.
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Nov 10, 2022 19:11:15 GMT -5
This thread title is misleading. Road Dogg said that Bret was a great wrestler but poor entertainer which is correct.
Apart from his 97 heel turn there was never a Bret promo that really stood out or good a huge pop. He was one of the best wrestlers in the world but that wasn't enough.
He didn't draw a dime as champion and struggled to get over in WCW, his lack of mic skills and character were a huge disadvantage.
I'm not hating on Bret, I could watch him wrestle all night long, but his promo skills were poor.
Road Dogg on the other hand was a genius on the mic and a huge attraction to DX. The guy could draw a reaction from an entire arena and was a merch machine. His ring work was poor but he was one of the greatest entertainers of the 90's.
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TheEvilDoink1987
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Post by TheEvilDoink1987 on Nov 10, 2022 20:46:09 GMT -5
This thread title is misleading. Road Dogg said that Bret was a great wrestler but poor entertainer which is correct. Apart from his 97 heel turn there was never a Bret promo that really stood out or good a huge pop. He was one of the best wrestlers in the world but that wasn't enough. He didn't draw a dime as champion and struggled to get over in WCW, his lack of mic skills and character were a huge disadvantage. I'm not hating on Bret, I could watch him wrestle all night long, but his promo skills were poor. Road Dogg on the other hand was a genius on the mic and a huge attraction to DX. The guy could draw a reaction from an entire arena and was a merch machine. His ring work was poor but he was one of the greatest entertainers of the 90's. I will admit Bret wasn't always the flashiest mic guy, but disagree when people say that he didn't entertain. His title as a ring general was his gimmick. He did his entertaining in the ring which is where he got his greatest crowd responses outside of the 1997 Hart Foundation stuff. Road Dogg was a product of his generation. I was and still am a huge New Age Outlaws fans, but he was able to catch that Attitude Era tidal wave and cash in. Have to tip your cap to that. However, I wouldn't call him a genius on the mic. Sure he was slick, but he just spat out the same couple of sentences every week. Those sentences were EXTREMELY over which I'll never dispute. |
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Post by MKSavage on Nov 10, 2022 21:48:10 GMT -5
This thread title is misleading. Road Dogg said that Bret was a great wrestler but poor entertainer which is correct.Apart from his 97 heel turn there was never a Bret promo that really stood out or good a huge pop. He was one of the best wrestlers in the world but that wasn't enough. He didn't draw a dime as champion and struggled to get over in WCW, his lack of mic skills and character were a huge disadvantage. I'm not hating on Bret, I could watch him wrestle all night long, but his promo skills were poor. Road Dogg on the other hand was a genius on the mic and a huge attraction to DX. The guy could draw a reaction from an entire arena and was a merch machine. His ring work was poor but he was one of the greatest entertainers of the 90's. This is the part where he waffled a bit, but he did say that Bret wasn't a great wrestler (2nd paragraph of his quote): "I don’t think I was a good wrestler. I don’t think Bret was a great wrestler. I think I was a better sports entertainer than Bret was and I think that’s where the money is.”
I also think Bret gets a bad rap for not selling as a champion, no one at that time was selling. The WWF brought back Hogan, Warrior, Savage, Piper, etc., and the WWF didn't sell either. They put the title on Yokozuna, Diesel, and HBK, and none of them sold either. WCW at the same time had Hogan, Savage, Sting, Flair, Arn, Vader, etc., and they didn't sell either. Wrestling was down across the board; it wasn't just the WWF when Bret was on top. There were a lot of scandals in the wrestling world at the time that brought down the whole industry: you had the steroid trial, the ring-boy sex scandal, Vince admitting in court that wrestling was not real, and Kerry Von Erich's death made national news - shedding light on the drug abuse that was rampant in the industry. |
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Post by JokerFC on Nov 10, 2022 22:39:52 GMT -5
This thread title is misleading. Road Dogg said that Bret was a great wrestler but poor entertainer which is correct.Apart from his 97 heel turn there was never a Bret promo that really stood out or good a huge pop. He was one of the best wrestlers in the world but that wasn't enough. He didn't draw a dime as champion and struggled to get over in WCW, his lack of mic skills and character were a huge disadvantage. I'm not hating on Bret, I could watch him wrestle all night long, but his promo skills were poor. Road Dogg on the other hand was a genius on the mic and a huge attraction to DX. The guy could draw a reaction from an entire arena and was a merch machine. His ring work was poor but he was one of the greatest entertainers of the 90's. This is the part where he waffled a bit, but he did say that Bret wasn't a great wrestler (2nd paragraph of his quote): "I don’t think I was a good wrestler. I don’t think Bret was a great wrestler. I think I was a better sports entertainer than Bret was and I think that’s where the money is.”
I also think Bret gets a bad rap for not selling as a champion, no one at that time was selling. The WWF brought back Hogan, Warrior, Savage, Piper, etc., and the WWF didn't sell either. They put the title on Yokozuna, Diesel, and HBK, and none of them sold either. WCW at the same time had Hogan, Savage, Sting, Flair, Arn, Vader, etc., and they didn't sell either. Wrestling was down across the board; it wasn't just the WWF when Bret was on top. There were a lot of scandals in the wrestling world at the time that brought down the whole industry: you had the steroid trial, the ring-boy sex scandal, Vince admitting in court that wrestling was not real, and Kerry Von Erich's death made national news - shedding light on the drug abuse that was rampant in the industry. 100% nobody drew 92-96.....BUT Bret was huge for the WWF in Europe. All the talking heads have said it. So to say he never drew a dime as champ is incorrect. |
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Post by hbkjason on Nov 11, 2022 0:50:13 GMT -5
Bret's stuff has aged better than anyone else's in my opinion. Him and Shawn Michaels are my number one and number two of all time, but I feel Bret Hart's stuff has aged better than HBK's. I also never understand the stuff about Bret not being a good promo, I am not even just talking about his 97 heel stuff, which is some of the best heel work the WWF has ever seen in my opinion. Even when he was a face, he delivered when it came to promos, you truly belived everything that he said.
As far as Road Dogg goes, I was always entertained by him and the New Age Outlaws, but I do not think off the top of my head I could tell you one stand out match apart from the dumpster one with Foley and Funk.
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Post by The Brain on Nov 11, 2022 1:24:24 GMT -5
Just reading the title of this thread proves RD is a fountain of misinformation
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