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Post by ChuckPOORis55 Cody Gang 4 Lyfe on Apr 10, 2023 5:31:37 GMT -5
I guess Mattel really wanted this to be moving so slowly and it be near universally criticized for its issues, I mean as you said they know what they are doing so that must be the case. Don’t be a douche, I haven’t seen a single idea offered in this thread that would’ve funded this already aside from lowering the cost or adding ridiculous amounts of figures, neither of which was ever going to happen. Yes, they know what they’re doing: Hogan - big seller, Rey - big seller with multigenerational appeal, DDP - WCW hallmark of the time and probably the only way you’ll ever see Ultimate DDP, Steiner - brand new hard sell figure in his first heel attire and WCW Debut Warrior - big seller albeit probably the weakest of the bunch. I wish what was offered was a more intricate Hollywood Hogan or Dark Side Hogan instead of the Amazon figure with WCW shirts and wristbands, DDP in jeans, trunks Steiner, and Bischoff and Bagwell instead of Rey and Warrior, but then others would complain that Hogan should be WCW Hennig with 2-in-1 Mr. Perfect option, DDP wasn’t in his Triad attire and ‘I have to pay 400 dollars for trunks Steiner and Bischoff? Those were the only figures I ever wanted! Thanks Mattel, you’ve ruined my life!!!’. Wrestling figure collectors will never be happy. Besides, the superficial complaints do nothing to account for the main issues that appear to be stalling this thing, which are not having enough space for it, not wanting to drop 400 dollars, and the crazy upcharges for overseas collectors. The Stage should sell itself, the figures aside from Rey are gravy. There's just one small problem, if Mattel knew what they were doing this would be backed and people would be cheering for it. You can say a million words and cope as much as you want but as long as this continues the way it is, you cannot argue Mattel knew what they were doing to make this successful.
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Post by ChuckPOORis55 Cody Gang 4 Lyfe on Apr 10, 2023 5:32:35 GMT -5
If tiers are meant to stay and the international shipping cost won’t change, what could realistically push this to 9,000? Nothing.
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Post by ChuckPOORis55 Cody Gang 4 Lyfe on Apr 10, 2023 5:41:58 GMT -5
Wow.. It's probably going to get re-released since Mattel enjoys doing that these days. We're getting another Greatest Hits Ultimate Edition set this year, so I wouldn't be shocked if Warrior is one of them if I get this guess leak right then I demand to be acknowledged as a secrettoyinsider You are just as credible as he is now lol.
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roberts321
Jobber
Joined on: Jul 27, 2021 13:20:44 GMT -5
Posts: 5
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Post by roberts321 on Apr 10, 2023 6:19:15 GMT -5
If I misread your earlier comments, my fault. Completely sorry about that. I read the whole “it is what it is” as a sign you may have been looking to give up already. For me, where there is a will there’s a way and I don’t want to see this fail nor do I really want to hear any talk as such. There’s still a lot of time to fix things and there are other ideas I have but I know for a fact they aren’t feasible. You have more power than us in this situation and I know you could do something to help this pass and get more people to back it. I just want to see it happen, and NOT by the way to have a live stream with Sam Roberts (who by the by I’ve heard a few stories about but that isn’t for this thread) and DDP doing the whole “back in my day” old man thing that I’m sure just put more people to sleep than it did getting folks excited to back this thing. One thing that most definitely should be done is to adjust the international shipping and price as reading these comments, a lot of your international crowd feels like they’ve been left out and got the short end of the stick. We’d see an immediate pop with Hogan as a permanent addition, lower tiers, and especially that international price fixed. The international fix alone I’m sure would put us near or over the 5,000 mark. My insta and Twitter is the same as my username here. I’d love to be able to interact more and to try to help if I can. It is what it is is me not getting bent out of shape if this ultimately doesn’t fund. Gotta keep a level head here. I’ve passed on all international comments to the MC team. It’s a bit out of my hands other than following up with the regularly and advising. Hogan added back…yes, it’s better than no Hogan but is that the best solution? I’m just not sure. interesting to see some follow up to this, as an international collector, I kind of feel we got a bad deal out of this. The price changed 1 day before the campaign started, it went from £470 - £500, no explanation. The extra fees has turned a lot of people off. I know it’s out of Steves hands but a bit of transparency would help. Maybe have us pay are own fees when it’s shipped. I will be backing this I just can’t drop that amount of money on something in a week. I don’t know any uk folks who could.
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ddt4thee
Superstar
Joined on: Sept 24, 2020 14:12:31 GMT -5
Posts: 548
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Post by ddt4thee on Apr 10, 2023 6:43:28 GMT -5
Lots of assumptions in the last few pages. ‘Ok Steve, I’m about to save your tails. Here’s what you do, you switch the tiers around and I guarantee this will get it going. That’ll get me to buy several and others will too! Trust me, I’ve never spent a day in the toy manufacturing business, but I’m on this forum ALOT, I know how this stuff works. No need to thank me….you’re welcome 😉’ Not assumptions. Suggestions. Which he's already said he's looking for. That's how it should work with a business and its consumers. They try to give us what we want so we'll buy it 😉 At the heart of a lot of these suggestions (some realistic, some not) is the desire to see this project succeed, and get everyone who's on the fence right now to go ahead and back it. That's how it is for me personally, anyways.
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Post by newgenandy on Apr 10, 2023 7:27:34 GMT -5
The problem with this is there’s no single problem. Therefore there’s no single solution.
1. Size - not everyone had space for a piece this big. Yea I know the depth can change, but it’s still both wide and tall. It may fit on a shelf depth wise, but you still need the width and height in a unit. If it’s not going on the unit but a wall you’ll still struggle to get many other shelves above or below so it still takes up a lot of space
2. Value - people don’t think it’s worth the value. Steve’s already said it should be higher than $400 meaning nothing extra will be thrown in as it then becomes unprofitable
3. There’s a narrative of “this can’t fail” but as again steve has said they crowdfund to see if it’s viable to make. They don’t run this as a break even or a loss
4. Figure selection - the figures are bonuses. The still seems to be a lot of people who don’t get the crowdfund model, the $400 is for the stage + Rey to get manufactured and make a profit. That manufacture includes tooling so any over the initial £5k the profits much larger hence the figures are thrown in as a bonus. Yes mattel still makes more and we still get more but people saying “$400 is too expensive for the stage” are missing that’s the cost mattel need to make it to reach their profit margin on it.
5. International - it’s been said lots, Steve’s given his explanation, I think this is the fairest of all criticisms. Not much more to say because it’s been said over a hundred pages but yeah - it sucks.
There’s just 5 issues
You can’t get a solution to fix all. People want a solution what doesn’t work for mattel who are already on the wire for making a profit from this.
Imo it answers the question if it is viable and the answer for a myriad of reasons is no. The only singular thing which could’ve made a difference is international but if there’s less than 50% in the USA which is by far the biggest market I doubt uk or Canada would’ve got a further 60% even combined but I do think this is the fairest concern raised. I’ve already seen Dwight fling selections and ranges in smyths and the entertainer, o think the uk markets on life support - yeah the legends and ultimates coming in a few months is good but there’s too many usa exclusives imo that people have given up. The superstars line for example I’d have 3 of ever figure minimum (one to keep carded, open and one for the kids).
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Post by The Big Boss Man on Apr 10, 2023 7:59:42 GMT -5
As someone not backing this, I hope it gets funded! I enjoy seeing the pic feds and set-ups others have.
Considering the first two crowd funds were large set pieces with figures I don't want, I bet I'll never back a Mattel WWE crowdfund because it isn't what I'm looking for. But I still enjoy seeing them.
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Old Zeke
Main Eventer
'Fraid old Zeke, he rides up here with me. Can't trust a pig with watermelons, you know.
Joined on: Jun 24, 2019 13:46:50 GMT -5
Posts: 3,289
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Post by Old Zeke on Apr 10, 2023 8:02:09 GMT -5
April 10th: "We didn't reach our goal of unlocking the Nitro Debut Hulk Hogan - BUT we're going to offer a NEW Early Bird figure! If we reach 5,000 backers by April 14th, EVERYONE gets a Nitro #2 Hulk Hogan from his legendary clash with Lex Luger!" April 14th: "We didn't reach our goal of unlocking the Nitro #2 Hulk Hogan - BUT we're going to offer a NEW Early Bird figure! If we reach 5,000 backers by April 21st, EVERYONE gets a Nitro #13 Hulk Hogan from his legendary clash with Hugh Morrus!" April 21st: "We didn't reach our goal of unlocking the Nitro #13 Hulk Hogan - BUT we're going to offer a NEW Early Bird figure! If we reach 5,000 backers by April 28th, EVERYONE gets a Nitro #15 Hulk Hogan from his legendary clash with The Four Horsemen!" April 28th: "You know what? all y'all."
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Post by Nivro™ on Apr 10, 2023 8:05:11 GMT -5
If I misread your earlier comments, my fault. Completely sorry about that. I read the whole “it is what it is” as a sign you may have been looking to give up already. For me, where there is a will there’s a way and I don’t want to see this fail nor do I really want to hear any talk as such. There’s still a lot of time to fix things and there are other ideas I have but I know for a fact they aren’t feasible. You have more power than us in this situation and I know you could do something to help this pass and get more people to back it. I just want to see it happen, and NOT by the way to have a live stream with Sam Roberts (who by the by I’ve heard a few stories about but that isn’t for this thread) and DDP doing the whole “back in my day” old man thing that I’m sure just put more people to sleep than it did getting folks excited to back this thing. One thing that most definitely should be done is to adjust the international shipping and price as reading these comments, a lot of your international crowd feels like they’ve been left out and got the short end of the stick. We’d see an immediate pop with Hogan as a permanent addition, lower tiers, and especially that international price fixed. The international fix alone I’m sure would put us near or over the 5,000 mark. My insta and Twitter is the same as my username here. I’d love to be able to interact more and to try to help if I can. It is what it is is me not getting bent out of shape if this ultimately doesn’t fund. Gotta keep a level head here. I’ve passed on all international comments to the MC team. It’s a bit out of my hands other than following up with the regularly and advising. Hogan added back…yes, it’s better than no Hogan but is that the best solution? I’m just not sure. Adding Hogan in might not "move the needle" but it makes the price tag a lot easier to swallow knowing you're getting at least 2 figures....especially since it was already budgeted into the 5k cost.
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Post by deskjet on Apr 10, 2023 8:15:09 GMT -5
It is what it is is me not getting bent out of shape if this ultimately doesn’t fund. Gotta keep a level head here. I’ve passed on all international comments to the MC team. It’s a bit out of my hands other than following up with the regularly and advising. Hogan added back…yes, it’s better than no Hogan but is that the best solution? I’m just not sure. Adding Hogan in might not "move the needle" but it makes the price tag a lot easier to swallow knowing you're getting at least 2 figures....especially since it was already budgeted into the 5k cost. This:)
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natureboyfauser
Superstar
Joined on: Sept 2, 2013 22:28:32 GMT -5
Posts: 663
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Post by natureboyfauser on Apr 10, 2023 8:24:56 GMT -5
Steve,
-Thanks for the crowdfunding opportunity. I love it. -The transparency approach worked for me and I bought mine right away. -Now we can either let it stall at 40 percent or look for other solutions as you stated - which again - I really APPRECIATE.
Here is a thought.
The Steiners have been one of the most wanted figures. You got them. Yeaaa. So I am assuming they are being made in multiple versions regardless. Assuming the tooling is being done - This is also an assumption that both Steiners will be ultimates & Elites, basics either way? If so is it possible that the Scott Steiner Ultimate as seen in the picture will be the first one out with WCW entrance? If this works in the planning would you consider giving a week for collectors to get the Entrance/ Rey which is already there but add Scott Steiner for 1 week to move to the $5,000 backing as well? With the tease that if the mark is met there is a surprise at the 9,000 tier where Scott was? So that gives everyone one week to finish the 5,000. In all likelihood, it goes way over ... if it doesn't - you tried and it is what it is. This is a suggestion to all of you who know a lot more than me. Just trying. Thanks. The other thought is that Ringside could offer an alternate paint version of the Steiners at Christmas in 2024 in ultimates like they are doing with the usos so that too would help cover the cost.
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pjm286
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Dec 26, 2009 19:48:43 GMT -5
Posts: 124
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Post by pjm286 on Apr 10, 2023 8:28:40 GMT -5
My idea is to just to tell us we're getting all 5 figures if we back however we have to hit 10,000 backers total. So it lowers the threshold from 11K to 10K but it guarantees everyone all 5 figures. I think all of us saw the 5 figures and want them all no matter what. I think that's a big part of the hangup here. People want the guarantee. Get rid of the tiers and do a hail Mary all or nothing deal. If it hits 10k we get it and all 5 figures, if it doesn't we don't. I don't mind just the Stage and Rey. The stage is worth 400 to me but to a lot of people, it's not. Not sure if this would work at all but it would give people that guarantee of all 5 figs so maybe there would be a surge. Just an idea.
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voicesinmyhead
Main Eventer
Joined on: Mar 4, 2009 19:21:00 GMT -5
Posts: 1,583
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Apr 10, 2023 8:39:54 GMT -5
My idea is to just to tell us we're getting all 5 figures if we back however we have to hit 10,000 backers total. So it lowers the threshold from 11K to 10K but it guarantees everyone all 5 figures. I think all of us saw the 5 figures and want them all no matter what. I think that's a big part of the hangup here. People want the guarantee. Get rid of the tiers and do a hail Mary all or nothing deal. If it hits 10k we get it and all 5 figures, if it doesn't we don't. I don't mind just the Stage and Rey. The stage is worth 400 to me but to a lot of people, it's not. Not sure if this would work at all but it would give people that guarantee of all 5 figs so maybe there would be a surge. Just an idea. Again, just no understanding of how this works. Mattel didn't just pick numbers out of a hat and say let's make Warrior at 11,000 randomly. These numbers are strategically chosen based on production costs, profit margins, etc. If they could have offered us the figures at lower tiers then they would have. People just keep making up figures, numbers, and ideas without any basis or understanding of simple economics. Anything less than 11,000 for the stage and 5 figures is NOT a possibility. Stop suggesting it.
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Post by Classic Collector: The Return on Apr 10, 2023 8:58:34 GMT -5
Me personally I would need all figures to justify the cost.
I didn’t buy in until the Doink & Diesel were guaranteed last time for that exact reason (I was more than ok without getting the ring skirts even though I’m glad I did).
With Hogan being out & Steiner/Warrior looking like an impossibly I don’t think this would be for me even though I really like the set.
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Post by ChuckPOORis55 Cody Gang 4 Lyfe on Apr 10, 2023 9:07:40 GMT -5
4. Figure selection - the figures are bonuses. The still seems to be a lot of people who don’t get the crowdfund model, the $400 is for the stage + Rey to get manufactured and make a profit. That manufacture includes tooling so any over the initial £5k the profits much larger hence the figures are thrown in as a bonus. Yes mattel still makes more and we still get more but people saying “$400 is too expensive for the stage” are missing that’s the cost mattel need to make it to reach their profit margin on it. I really don't understand this take, the consumer determines the value of things and how things should go. If the consumer focuses on the figures and the figures are what is making/breaking the crowdfund, then the figures are important. If the consumer says they don't see 400 dollars in value in the product, the product isn't worth 400 dollars regardless of how much it cost to produce. I could have a million dollars worth of sand and if I go to sell it an no one wants it, then the sand is worthless. The figures are also not "bonuses" when you get them as part of something you purchase, that's basic level marketing I see people falling for left and right here and after the New Gen Arena Mattel should have learned the importance of them.
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voicesinmyhead
Main Eventer
Joined on: Mar 4, 2009 19:21:00 GMT -5
Posts: 1,583
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Apr 10, 2023 9:11:52 GMT -5
4. Figure selection - the figures are bonuses. The still seems to be a lot of people who don’t get the crowdfund model, the $400 is for the stage + Rey to get manufactured and make a profit. That manufacture includes tooling so any over the initial £5k the profits much larger hence the figures are thrown in as a bonus. Yes mattel still makes more and we still get more but people saying “$400 is too expensive for the stage” are missing that’s the cost mattel need to make it to reach their profit margin on it. I really don't understand this take, the consumer determines the value of things and how things should go. If the consumer focuses on the figures and the figures are what is making/breaking the crowdfund, then the figures are important. If the consumer says they don't see 400 dollars in value in the product, the product isn't worth 400 dollars regardless of how much it cost to produce. I could have a million dollars worth of sand and if I go to sell it an no one wants it, then the sand is worthless. The figures are also not "bonuses" when you get them as part of something you purchase, that's basic level marketing I see people falling for left and right here and after the New Gen Arena Mattel should have learned the importance of them. He is literally explaining it to you. It's not even a take. It is simply how a crowdfund works, and how Mattel needs to run it to make a profit. How much the stage is worth to you isn't what he is talking about. $400 is how much the stage + Rey costs for Mattel to sell to you at the lowest price possible and still make a small profit (because believe it or not businesses don't do things for free). If you don't think it is worth that (like your terrible sand analogy) then don't buy it.
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stinkfaceT
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Jan 30, 2017 17:40:31 GMT -5
Posts: 476
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Post by stinkfaceT on Apr 10, 2023 9:25:56 GMT -5
$400-450 plus shipping to wherever, customs tarrif/duty/taxes are up to the purchaser to consider worthwhile or not…. this project would be way further towards all applicable parties goal.
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Post by ChuckPOORis55 Cody Gang 4 Lyfe on Apr 10, 2023 9:45:24 GMT -5
I really don't understand this take, the consumer determines the value of things and how things should go. If the consumer focuses on the figures and the figures are what is making/breaking the crowdfund, then the figures are important. If the consumer says they don't see 400 dollars in value in the product, the product isn't worth 400 dollars regardless of how much it cost to produce. I could have a million dollars worth of sand and if I go to sell it an no one wants it, then the sand is worthless. The figures are also not "bonuses" when you get them as part of something you purchase, that's basic level marketing I see people falling for left and right here and after the New Gen Arena Mattel should have learned the importance of them. He is literally explaining it to you. It's not even a take. It is simply how a crowdfund works, and how Mattel needs to run it to make a profit. How much the stage is worth to you isn't what he is talking about. $400 is how much the stage + Rey costs for Mattel to sell to you at the lowest price possible and still make a small profit (because believe it or not businesses don't do things for free). If you don't think it is worth that (like your terrible sand analogy) then don't buy it. It's not worth getting into it with someone who is clearly very big mad that this isn't going well but I will tell you not to worry, I and many others aren't backing this lmao.
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Post by ChuckPOORis55 Cody Gang 4 Lyfe on Apr 10, 2023 9:49:25 GMT -5
I can see what stage of grief this thread is in The longer this thread goes on the more I think of this comment lol. I'd say we are firmly in the (literal) bargaining phase with a few still in the anger phase.
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Post by Deep Figure Value on Apr 10, 2023 9:50:37 GMT -5
Feel like this is worth reiterating because it's a pretty simple understanding, but the thinktank of WF business moguls making up this board still seem to be operating under the impression that the tiers and offerings have been arbitrarily selected and are fluid based on perceived consumer demand.
$400 * y = allocated budget for the project y = number of tiered backers needed to move on to the next phase of the project. Budget = production costs (production, tooling, deco, etc.) associated with producing and delivering the proposed product while still turning a profit^.
^ I'm choosing to assume that "profit" here is a bare minimum ROI on crowdfunded dollars raised on account of Steve's comments that RP should be higher.
$2m: Rey & the Stage can turn a profit $2.8m: Rey, DDP, and the Stage can turn a profit $3.6m: Rey, DDP, Steiner, and the Stage can turn a profit $4.4m: Rey, DDP, Steiner, Warrior, and the Stage can turn a profit
Operational "suggestions" are terrific until you don't know the inner workings of what sort of determinations were used to come up with these numbers and how much effort, if any, went into driving the price as low as humanly possible while still turning a profit, which likely covers most of us in this situation. There's a baseline understanding that different production costs are associated with each step along the way, but without those cost estimates in front of you, you're only scratching the surface of what's at play here.
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