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Post by ASR (therockisback) on Sept 16, 2023 20:10:51 GMT -5
The greatest WM ever for me... but what are you guys overall thoughts on it?
I honestly will say that this show was untouchable and perfection for me... the whole card from top to bottom was just epic stuff and it all served its purposes.
The build up was great, hot crowd in Texas, great commentary, star power, the best main event ever, the two biggest stars going at it, a few chilled matches to cool down the crowd... I legit wouldn't ever change a thing about it.
Would you guys say its the best ever? One of the best? Top 2? Top 3? Top 5? Top 10?
We've all been hearing how everyone loved it for over 20 years but I wonder if anyone has a different opinion tbh... once again I will say that this is the best event ever for me and it will never be topped ever!!!!
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Sept 17, 2023 10:56:11 GMT -5
Saying it's the best ever is hard because I am sure we had a lot of good ones from 18 - 39 that I would have to go back and re-watch to see.
But I feel 17 is most memorable because wrestling was so popular then, a lot of the wrestlers still stood out and are remembered still to this day. It was the peak of the Attitude Era. Everything after that even was a downward slope into the Ruthless Aggression era.
I feel that Wrestlemania 17 was the best Wrestlemania out of all the "teen" ones. Meaning from 13 - 19.
I would rank it like this...
17
19
18
14
13
15
16
But for overall?? It definitely would be a top choice. Because I feel Wrestlemania III could easily be one of the greatest too for that era, the stacked card of who was on it, and such.
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Post by TKO Propagandist on Sept 17, 2023 13:23:00 GMT -5
I actually think WM X7 is underrated in some respects. WWE have never done a big, lights, camera, action documentary on it like they've done with tons of other things. Anytime a good pay per view happens, it should be judged based on an X7 scale. As in, how did this compare to Wrestlemania 17?
And it's not just a match quality thing. In saying that, X7 had 2 five star bouts (universally agreed by fans, not talking about Meltzer). But much of the show's greatness is in many ways down to what the event symbolized. The final send-off to the Attitude Era, the end of wrestling's boom period. The last night wrestling was mainstream. Never before, never again.
It was one big, massive, balls to the wall, all out magnum opus ride off into the sunset farwell. It felt like it could have been the last wrestling show ever produced. And that would have been okay. Wrestling's finale.
You can't kill people off in wrestling per say but Austin joining McMahon was essentially wrestling's biggest ever box office draw & star being killed off. "Oh but we don't want to see Austin heel." Exactly! That's why the show had such an air of definitiveness to it. It's like Tony dying in the final episode of the Sopranos. Darth Vader passing away in Return of the Jedi.
Point being, you would never have needed to watch another minute of wrestling that aired after Mania 17 based on how that show played out & finished. It was poetically perfect: Vince gets his commeuppance, the anti-Atittude Era faction the RTC are banished once & for all, Edge & Christian conquer the TLC match & the tag division, Attitude Era favorites Kane & Jericho leave with gold, Triple H & Stephanie are overcome, Taker rides off into the night, Rock goes to Hollywood, wrestling's greatest rivals join forces.
Is it any wonder how bad WWF sucked afterward? No show has overtaken Wrestlemania 17 since & no show ever will. Because we will never have what we had before. Circumstantially, it's not possible to have a show that is better. Never before, never again just sums it up.
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Post by JokerFC on Sept 17, 2023 15:24:30 GMT -5
Excellent show but its forever stained by Austin's turn at the end for me. Worst decision Vince ever made & the buyrates proved it.....then he made it again in July.
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Post by ASR (therockisback) on Sept 17, 2023 22:03:38 GMT -5
I actually think WM X7 is underrated in some respects. WWE have never done a big, lights, camera, action documentary on it like they've done with tons of other things. Anytime a good pay per view happens, it should be judged based on an X7 scale. As in, how did this compare to Wrestlemania 17? And it's not just a match quality thing. In saying that, X7 had 2 five star bouts (universally agreed by fans, not talking about Meltzer). But much of the show's greatness is in many ways down to what the event symbolized. The final send-off to the Attitude Era, the end of wrestling's boom period. The last night wrestling was mainstream. Never before, never again. It was one big, massive, balls to the wall, all out magnum opus ride off into the sunset farwell. It felt like it could have been the last wrestling show ever produced. And that would have been okay. Wrestling's finale. You can't kill people off in wrestling per say but Austin joining McMahon was essentially wrestling's biggest ever box office draw & star being killed off. "Oh but we don't want to see Austin heel." Exactly! That's why the show had such an air of definitiveness to it. It's like Tony dying in the final episode of the Sopranos. Darth Vader passing away in Return of the Jedi. Point being, you would never have needed to watch another minute of wrestling that aired after Mania 17 based on how that show played out & finished. It was poetically perfect: Vince gets his commeuppance, the anti-Atittude Era faction the RTC are banished once & for all, Edge & Christian conquer the TLC match & the tag division, Attitude Era favorites Kane & Jericho leave with gold, Triple H & Stephanie are overcome, Taker rides off into the night, Rock goes to Hollywood, wrestling's greatest rivals join forces. Is it any wonder how bad WWF sucked afterward? No show has overtaken Wrestlemania 17 since & no show ever will. Because we will never have what we had before. Circumstantially, it's not possible to have a show that is better. Never before, never again just sums it up. Perfect summary... many events have come close to it but WM17 will always be on top. I'd say many events featured legendary stuff on it as well but there's always just something about WM17 that gives me a real buzz. |
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Post by ASR (therockisback) on Sept 17, 2023 22:08:00 GMT -5
Saying it's the best ever is hard because I am sure we had a lot of good ones from 18 - 39 that I would have to go back and re-watch to see. But I feel 17 is most memorable because wrestling was so popular then, a lot of the wrestlers still stood out and are remembered still to this day. It was the peak of the Attitude Era. Everything after that even was a downward slope into the Ruthless Aggression era. I feel that Wrestlemania 17 was the best Wrestlemania out of all the "teen" ones. Meaning from 13 - 19. I would rank it like this... 17 19 18 14 13 15 16 But for overall?? It definitely would be a top choice. Because I feel Wrestlemania III could easily be one of the greatest too for that era, the stacked card of who was on it, and such. We've seen many great WMs since then... 19,20,21,24,28,30,31,38,39 etc... I'd say 19 ,20,38,39 are easily up there with 17 tbh. There's just something special about 17 for me and that's why it'll remain number 1. I agree that 17 was better than everything from 13-18... WM3 was also legendary. |
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Post by ASR (therockisback) on Sept 17, 2023 22:08:43 GMT -5
Excellent show but its forever stained by Austin's turn at the end for me. Worst decision Vince ever made & the buyrates proved it.....then he made it again in July. Vince made the mistake twice!!! Within 3 months hahaa... legend. |
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Post by hbkjason on Sept 18, 2023 2:55:37 GMT -5
The apex of the Attitude Era for me, I love this show, easily in my top three Manias of all time. Until the terrible turn at the end, Austin vs Rock is the absolute perfect main event, from the entrances to the way they just start going at it as soon as they get in the ring. I hate the way we have these championship introductions these days, they completely halt the momentum after a badass entrance.
I remember watching this show live, I was in my first year of university and I had this work experience thing the day after, here in the UK, the show ran from 12 to 4AM so I remember being like a zombie at my first day of work experience. I fell asleep on the train on the way home and missed my stop by four stations! Still, seeing it as it happened made it absolutely worth it.
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Post by Decky on Sept 18, 2023 5:22:18 GMT -5
My favourite PPV of all time but also, ironically the beginning of the reason I stopped watching WWE for 10 years. The ending and the following 8 months was a downward spiral.
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Post by JokerFC on Sept 18, 2023 9:43:19 GMT -5
The apex of the Attitude Era for me, I love this show, easily in my top three Manias of all time. Until the terrible turn at the end, Austin vs Rock is the absolute perfect main event, from the entrances to the way they just start going at it as soon as they get in the ring. I hate the way we have these championship introductions these days, they completely halt the momentum after a badass entrance. I remember watching this show live, I was in my first year of university and I had this work experience thing the day after, here in the UK, the show ran from 12 to 4AM so I remember being like a zombie at my first day of work experience. I fell asleep on the train on the way home and missed my stop by four stations! Still, seeing it as it happened made it absolutely worth it. I watched it live too....I was 21 & we were in my friends house shouting for Austin as hard as possible. Obviously the ending  in horrified us |
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Post by ASR (therockisback) on Sept 18, 2023 15:39:20 GMT -5
The apex of the Attitude Era for me, I love this show, easily in my top three Manias of all time. Until the terrible turn at the end, Austin vs Rock is the absolute perfect main event, from the entrances to the way they just start going at it as soon as they get in the ring. I hate the way we have these championship introductions these days, they completely halt the momentum after a badass entrance. I remember watching this show live, I was in my first year of university and I had this work experience thing the day after, here in the UK, the show ran from 12 to 4AM so I remember being like a zombie at my first day of work experience. I fell asleep on the train on the way home and missed my stop by four stations! Still, seeing it as it happened made it absolutely worth it. Austin vs Rock was the best match in WM history... insane stuff |
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Sept 18, 2023 16:01:50 GMT -5
For me it felt like the grand finale of The Attitude Era, afterwards the product began a slow decline that it has never recovered from.
Being a kid at the time I was heartbroken by Austin's heel turn. I just couldn't accept it.
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Post by JokerFC on Sept 18, 2023 20:18:25 GMT -5
For me it felt like the grand finale of The Attitude Era, afterwards the product began a slow decline that it has never recovered from. Being a kid at the time I was heartbroken by Austin's heel turn. I just couldn't accept it. I was 21 and couldn't accept it....grievous error on their part. |
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Post by CM Tusk on Sept 19, 2023 3:21:58 GMT -5
I’ve always had the controversial opinion that it was half of a really great show and half of a meh filler show. I love Austin/Rock, TLC and Shane/Vince. Three iconic matches. Kane/Show/Raven is fun enough. I can’t give on honest opinion on Benoit/Angle as I haven’t watched it back in over a decade. Undertaker/Triple H feels like it drags. No respect to anyone involved but Jericho/Regal, Test/Eddie, and Chyna/Ivory feel like random matches that could have been on weekly tv. APA and Tazz vs Right To Censor is the definition of filler. Finally, the gimmick battle royal feels so out of place and a little sad.
I still think overall it is a fun show to watch, but I don’t know on a personal level I’d rank it in my top 10 Wrestlemanias even.
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Post by MKSavage on Sept 19, 2023 8:48:22 GMT -5
Great atmosphere, the crowd was electric, and you couldn't ask for a better place to hold a BIG event:   A very good event, but ruined by the ending... How do you turn Austin heel, and in Texas no less. I haven't seen the event since I ordered it on PPV all those years ago, but I don't remember Austin getting booed out the building like they probably thought he would. I think it was more of a stunned silence (pun intended). I just don't think people wanted to boo him (kind of like WCW fans in 1999 when they tried to turn Sting heel). Very interesting that they brought back a lotter of names from the previous eras, it kind of felt like the end of an era, so having a lot of guys from the past with the stars of the attitude era just made it feel like an important event. Pretty amazing that a year later the WWF would become the WWE. Like a few others have said, this was the beginning of the end for me as a huge wrestling fan. Austin was my last "hero" in wrestling, so turning him into a chicken-$#!+ heel kind of made wrestling less fun for me. Add to that a lot of the guys I grew up watching were no longer wrestling, or just making spot appearances, I just started to lose interest in wrestling. I kept trying to go back years later, but it was never the same, the new wrestlers just didn't do anything for me. |
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Post by ASR (therockisback) on Sept 19, 2023 10:54:32 GMT -5
I’ve always had the controversial opinion that it was half of a really great show and half of a meh filler show. I love Austin/Rock, TLC and Shane/Vince. Three iconic matches. Kane/Show/Raven is fun enough. I can’t give on honest opinion on Benoit/Angle as I haven’t watched it back in over a decade. Undertaker/Triple H feels like it drags. No respect to anyone involved but Jericho/Regal, Test/Eddie, and Chyna/Ivory feel like random matches that could have been on weekly tv. APA and Tazz vs Right To Censor is the definition of filler. Finally, the gimmick battle royal feels so out of place and a little sad. I still think overall it is a fun show to watch, but I don’t know on a personal level I’d rank it in my top 10 Wrestlemanias even. I feel like the main matches delivered and the undercard were all decent enough tbh… nothing was really bad or a letdown for me. The Gimmick Battle Royal was good to cool down the crowd and you always need 2/3 filler matches especially on a 10 match show. I still gotta rewatch a lot of it myself but it’s easily the best one hands down. |
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Post by ASR (therockisback) on Sept 19, 2023 10:55:40 GMT -5
Great atmosphere, the crowd was electric, and you couldn't ask for a better place to hold a BIG event: A very good event, but ruined by the ending... How do you turn Austin heel, and in Texas no less. I haven't seen the event since I ordered it on PPV all those years ago, but I don't remember Austin getting booed out the building like they probably thought he would. I think it was more of a stunned silence (pun intended). I just don't think people wanted to boo him (kind of like WCW fans in 1999 when they tried to turn Sting heel). Very interesting that they brought back a lotter of names from the previous eras, it kind of felt like the end of an era, so having a lot of guys from the past with the stars of the attitude era just made it feel like an important event. Pretty amazing that a year later the WWF would become the WWE. Like a few others have said, this was the beginning of the end for me as a huge wrestling fan. Austin was my last "hero" in wrestling, so turning him into a chicken-$#!+ heel kind of made wrestling less fun for me. Add to that a lot of the guys I grew up watching were no longer wrestling, or just making spot appearances, I just started to lose interest in wrestling. I kept trying to go back years later, but it was never the same, the new wrestlers just didn't do anything for me. Austin turning heel did give us many great moments tbh but I always wondered how things would be if he stayed a Babyface. |
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Post by JokerFC on Sept 19, 2023 11:32:34 GMT -5
Austin vs Kurt Angle had never been done. You could have had HHH & Angle unite under McMahon.
HHH had a shout too...he had beaten Austin. Where's his shot?
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Post by CM Tusk on Sept 19, 2023 13:15:46 GMT -5
It really should have been a triple threat between Austin/Rock/Triple H. If ever there was a time to do it, it was then. Vince tries to help Triple H but Austin still wins it.
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Post by tmnt316 on Sept 19, 2023 13:35:30 GMT -5
It is my favorite WM but Austin heel turn was dumb but Austin was my guy and continued to be with his heel run.
Top 5 WM shows for me
17
19
10
24 I know a lot of people that think it was good but still think it's underrated.
30 and night 1 from this year.
Honorable mentions WM 8 and WM 21.
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