y2josh
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Post by y2josh on Oct 14, 2024 13:19:29 GMT -5
There’s also the issue of the WWE-owned rights, i.e. the likeness of the character of say “Duke ‘the Dumpster’ Drose” regardless of the name used. That seems like a very “grey” area, and it wouldn’t be just Mitch. WWE does let some of their stuff lapse, I assume if they think they can't make money with it, which is why Brian Clark now owns the rights to the Adam Bomb gimmick. I could be wrong, but I don't think Mitch had "Dumpster" on the packaging for Droese; he has been very careful with the names used on his products. I find it unlikely that he would go through the trouble to change the names on packages if he was willing to break laws and make figures he simply couldn't make at all. I highly doubt the casual, common man knows the names of Men On A Mission...no one was googling "Greg Gerard" to see if he had a figure. I dunno, man. All of these allegations seem pretty silly to me. |
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taserface
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Post by taserface on Oct 14, 2024 13:36:28 GMT -5
There’s also the issue of the WWE-owned rights, i.e. the likeness of the character of say “Duke ‘the Dumpster’ Drose” regardless of the name used. That seems like a very “grey” area, and it wouldn’t be just Mitch. Maybe Kanik could share that info with us. Demolition was formed in WWF. Ax and Smash were named that in WWF. The look is from WWF. How are they able to be used if it’s WWE IP? Legends contract or not, don’t they own the IP or look / names? I just assumed small time characters like Droese, Mercy, Oscar, Moe, etc performed as their real names outside of WWE in those outfits. And WWE probably couldn’t care any less about them But Demolition. That’s probably a different story |
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parrish
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Post by parrish on Oct 14, 2024 13:48:29 GMT -5
Am I the only one that thinks if Mitch is going to charge $55 or more for a figure because it is 1/500 or 1/350 etc. that the figures should be numbered like KWK?
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kojikanemoto
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Post by kojikanemoto on Oct 14, 2024 13:59:15 GMT -5
There’s also the issue of the WWE-owned rights, i.e. the likeness of the character of say “Duke ‘the Dumpster’ Drose” regardless of the name used. That seems like a very “grey” area, and it wouldn’t be just Mitch. Maybe Kanik could share that info with us. Demolition was formed in WWF. Ax and Smash were named that in WWF. The look is from WWF. How are they able to be used if it’s WWE IP? Legends contract or not, don’t they own the IP or look / names? I just assumed small time characters like Droese, Mercy, Oscar, Moe, etc performed as their real names outside of WWE in those outfits. And WWE probably couldn’t care any less about them But Demolition. That’s probably a different story Ax had a big lawsuit with WWF/WWE and the rights were part of it. There were always talk that Randy Cullen started it with “Detroit Demolition.” It would appear that he got the rights to the gimmick |
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kojikanemoto
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Post by kojikanemoto on Oct 14, 2024 14:01:17 GMT -5
There’s also the issue of the WWE-owned rights, i.e. the likeness of the character of say “Duke ‘the Dumpster’ Drose” regardless of the name used. That seems like a very “grey” area, and it wouldn’t be just Mitch. WWE does let some of their stuff lapse, I assume if they think they can't make money with it, which is why Brian Clark now owns the rights to the Adam Bomb gimmick. I could be wrong, but I don't think Mitch had "Dumpster" on the packaging for Droese; he has been very careful with the names used on his products. I find it unlikely that he would go through the trouble to change the names on packages if he was willing to break laws and make figures he simply couldn't make at all. I highly doubt the casual, common man knows the names of Men On A Mission...no one was googling "Greg Gerard" to see if he had a figure. I dunno, man. All of these allegations seem pretty silly to me. I don’t know enough about it all but the trademark for the name and the copyrights to the gimmick (the likeness), I believe would be 2 different things. I think that’s part of why it’s so complicated. |
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walter7paisley
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Post by walter7paisley on Oct 14, 2024 15:08:35 GMT -5
No, I get that. I'm just saying that from what I can tell, it's the WWE who will lose money on this, and that doesn't bother me. I'm not entirely sure how Kanik thinks that any other independent company will be affected. I can't see how that would work. I do agree with Kanik that there is cause for concern in that if one company ruffles too many feathers, a large corporation like TKO will likely be overly aggressive in protecting their money and their status. It wouldn’t be the first time a company - or WWE for that matter - has gone above and beyond to try and make an example out of someone and in process, step on others. Casualties of war one might say but I think Kanik is trying to prevent that bomb from being dropped. It would absolutely hurt Mitch’s business and some of our other favorite independent companies as well. Think about all of the figures we see made and how few of them can claim to be completely original. Either they used a look and/or name from a company now owned be WWE or even the packaging is a tribute to something that they used to produce. For those reasons alone, WWE Legal can send out a C&D even if it won’t hold up in court. Just because a company CAN win in court doesn’t mean that they will recover your expenses. Win or lose, it is a headache for each company to have to respond to WWE Legal. It sucks for everyone involved. WWE looks like a bully because they want to protect what is theirs and find the most effective way to deter companies from continuing this practice. It sucks for collectors like all of us who just want the figures. It sucks for the estates or old wrestlers not getting the additional income, and it sucks for the independent companies who would be impacted by this. I just don't see how the WWE could take any sort of issue with any independent company who is doing things legally. Like others have said, surely the bigger issue is gonna be with the estates of the talent who have proactively sought out deals with other companies despite having an exclusive WWE legends contract. I obviously am not educated in these matters, lol, but I dunno, I don't quite get how this could spell bad news for other companies, especially if they're getting deals legally. 🤷 |
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@Chair.Shot
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Post by @Chair.Shot on Oct 14, 2024 15:33:12 GMT -5
kojikanemoto That’s part of why I am so interested in this/IP law. Even if the name becomes available, does that give a person or a company the green light to use the attire, the catch phrases, etc. that were used or created by that company? I think the various Major companies have done a good job of flying under that radar with things and/or done things that fall into the category of parody or altering something just enough that it probably wouldn’t be worth taking to court. That said, if you look at every Major Bendie or BRG, more than half have something about them that someone could argue in court. And again, it isn’t always about who would actually win in court. I don’t want to list every single thing that a company could or would argue but if WWE wanted to be petty enough, they might go after them for something as simple as packaging design, name, attire, etc. Hell - Gargano wore several comic book inspired gears that Disney could raise a fuss about if they were feeling petty. Kanik and Co. have been playing it smart and from what I can tell, changing things enough to not get into any hot water. But if you wake a sleeping giant, there can be significant damage. On the other hand…capitalism, free country, blahblahblah. Morally, I agree that if there is something illegal being done here, it should stop before it becomes everyone’s problem. But if Mitch doesn’t want to stop until he is forced to, are we morally obliged as collectors to boycott these products? That’s the part where I have yet to see a compelling argument against. I’m certainly open to it.
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Post by AttitudeLegendCollector on Oct 14, 2024 15:39:29 GMT -5
kojikanemoto That’s part of why I am so interested in this/IP law. Even if the name becomes available, does that give a person or a company the green light to use the attire, the catch phrases, etc. that were used or created by that company? I think the various Major companies have done a good job of flying under that radar with things and/or done things that fall into the category of parody or altering something just enough that it probably wouldn’t be worth taking to court. That said, if you look at every Major Bendie or BRG, more than half have something about them that someone could argue in court. And again, it isn’t always about who would actually win in court. I don’t want to list every single thing that a company could or would argue but if WWE wanted to be petty enough, they might go after them for something as simple as packaging design, name, attire, etc. Hell - Gargano wore several comic book inspired gears that Disney could raise a fuss about if they were feeling petty. Kanik and Co. have been playing it smart and from what I can tell, changing things enough to not get into any hot water. But if you wake a sleeping giant, there can be significant damage. On the other hand…capitalism, free country, blahblahblah. Morally, I agree that if there is something illegal being done here, it should stop before it becomes everyone’s problem. But if Mitch doesn’t want to stop until he is forced to, are we morally obliged as collectors to boycott these products? That’s the part where I have yet to see a compelling argument against. I’m certainly open to it. I am too interested in the ins and outs of it all but if WWE and/or Mattel wanted to stop it, there’s no way it would go any further than a simple cease and desist letter. No chance Mitch or any of these independents go to court, they’d just crap themselves and stop. As for me as a collector? I’ll keep buying whatever is available and makes me happy, it’s not our obligation, moral or otherwise to buy or boycott, in my opinion. I hope Mitch gets the Jakes out as I think he’d do a better job than Mattel. |
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@Chair.Shot
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Post by @Chair.Shot on Oct 14, 2024 15:43:07 GMT -5
kojikanemoto That’s part of why I am so interested in this/IP law. Even if the name becomes available, does that give a person or a company the green light to use the attire, the catch phrases, etc. that were used or created by that company? I think the various Major companies have done a good job of flying under that radar with things and/or done things that fall into the category of parody or altering something just enough that it probably wouldn’t be worth taking to court. That said, if you look at every Major Bendie or BRG, more than half have something about them that someone could argue in court. And again, it isn’t always about who would actually win in court. I don’t want to list every single thing that a company could or would argue but if WWE wanted to be petty enough, they might go after them for something as simple as packaging design, name, attire, etc. Hell - Gargano wore several comic book inspired gears that Disney could raise a fuss about if they were feeling petty. Kanik and Co. have been playing it smart and from what I can tell, changing things enough to not get into any hot water. But if you wake a sleeping giant, there can be significant damage. On the other hand…capitalism, free country, blahblahblah. Morally, I agree that if there is something illegal being done here, it should stop before it becomes everyone’s problem. But if Mitch doesn’t want to stop until he is forced to, are we morally obliged as collectors to boycott these products? That’s the part where I have yet to see a compelling argument against. I’m certainly open to it. I am too interested in the ins and outs of it all but if WWE and/or Mattel wanted to stop it, there’s no way it would go any further than a simple cease and desist letter. No chance Mitch or any of these independents go to court, they’d just crap themselves and stop. 1000% agree. That is in part what I think people are missing about Kanik’s argument. If WWE or Mattel want you to stop, you stop. Even if you are totally in the right, even if you can win, up front and in the end, you will ultimately lose. That sucks but what is right and what is reality don’t alway align. |
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nomorexclusives
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Post by nomorexclusives on Oct 14, 2024 20:34:46 GMT -5
Steering this thread back on track a little… My Grapplers and Gimmicks collection is growing faster than anyone else’s but all companies are causing my collection to expand rapidly. Right now I am cleaning up my office/toy room and trying to decide how to display my collection. Out of curiosity, do you guys mix everything together or does each company get its own dedicated space? i mix all mine up they are displayed in federation by era! I do the same. If i ever get doubles and more space than i would also love to display them chronologically based on when they were put out over the years (all brands) |
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mrh
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Post by mrh on Oct 14, 2024 21:36:25 GMT -5
This might be a controversial take, but I really think this falls on Sherri's estate than Mitch.
Mitch approached the estate with a contract - if they couldn't/shouldn't have signed it because they agreed to exclusivity with WWE, that's on them to tell Mitch.
Yes -- Mitch could have investigated (but realistically, what's he going to do -- ask to read the private contract between the estate and WWE? He actually has no legal right to read that, and they are under no obligation to give him).
Mitch is on the hook because he might be legally liable - but the real offending party here is Sherri's estate for not honoring their deal with WWE.
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taserface
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Post by taserface on Oct 14, 2024 22:05:05 GMT -5
This might be a controversial take, but I really think this falls on Sherri's estate than Mitch. Mitch approached the estate with a contract - if they couldn't/shouldn't have signed it because they agreed to exclusivity with WWE, that's on them to tell Mitch. Yes -- Mitch could have investigated (but realistically, what's he going to do -- ask to read the private contract between the estate and WWE? He actually has no legal right to read that, and they are under no obligation to give him). Mitch is on the hook because he might be legally liable - but the real offending party here is Sherri's estate for not honoring their deal with WWE. This is my line of thinking too. I just think it takes a lot of balls to come on here and accuse another small company (that mind you has consistently come through with product and is improving, and just experienced a personal hell, that doesn’t have the industry ties, financial backing, and a billion followers on social media like the MWFP boys). How does he know Mitch didn’t sign Sherri during a lapse in her contract, same with Jake, Papa Shango or whoever else he’s saying. I stated earlier something about DDP and Epic, and was quickly corrected. Mattel has been putting out DDP figures or attempting to since 2021/2022. Apparently his Legends deal lapsed at some point and Epic swooped in and got a DDP in 2024 Mattel hasn’t done a Sherri (before the upcoming Retro) since 201 or 2022, the SummerSlam one Not that it will stop me from buying BRG’s, or any ‘illegal’ Hasbro style figures, but MWFP team has lost me as a fan of theirs with this |
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3poajamie
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Post by 3poajamie on Oct 15, 2024 1:46:10 GMT -5
This might be a controversial take, but I really think this falls on Sherri's estate than Mitch. Mitch approached the estate with a contract - if they couldn't/shouldn't have signed it because they agreed to exclusivity with WWE, that's on them to tell Mitch. Yes -- Mitch could have investigated (but realistically, what's he going to do -- ask to read the private contract between the estate and WWE? He actually has no legal right to read that, and they are under no obligation to give him). Mitch is on the hook because he might be legally liable - but the real offending party here is Sherri's estate for not honoring their deal with WWE. I agree in a sense but as a figure maker you need to do your checks, it’s why a Sherri hasn’t been done by someone else yet, her estate might say she is fine to have a figure made and accept money for it but you can’t be naive enough to not actually check |
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misterfigi
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Post by misterfigi on Oct 15, 2024 2:31:46 GMT -5
I just hope no one stops buying figures they want because other toy companies are claiming (maybe rightfully so) that they were made illegally. And IF that is true, I hope Mitch gets his craptogether before it blows up in his face.
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habrofan83
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Post by habrofan83 on Oct 15, 2024 2:55:05 GMT -5
Personally If something is available that I want I’m
Going to buy it, regardless of who made it, may sound bad but I don’t really care if it’s right or wrong, we’re getting figures hasbro didn’t give us and Mattel hasn’t bothered to listen to us properly either so long may it continue.
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walter7paisley
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Post by walter7paisley on Oct 15, 2024 3:54:09 GMT -5
Personally If something is available that I want I’m Going to buy it, regardless of who made it, may sound bad but I don’t really care if it’s right or wrong, we’re getting figures hasbro didn’t give us and Mattel hasn’t bothered to listen to us properly either so long may it continue. It doesn't sound bad at all. The estate is making money, whether it's above board or not. Frankly,  the WWE. |
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cheville2001
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Post by cheville2001 on Oct 15, 2024 7:46:23 GMT -5
Personally If something is available that I want I’m Going to buy it, regardless of who made it, may sound bad but I don’t really care if it’s right or wrong, we’re getting figures hasbro didn’t give us and Mattel hasn’t bothered to listen to us properly either so long may it continue. Yeah I'm with you on this. KWK we're going to make Kamala before Major Pod Boys stepped in. Still kept the images as the figure looked incredible... |
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mrscream
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Post by mrscream on Oct 15, 2024 7:59:23 GMT -5
Personally If something is available that I want I’m Going to buy it, regardless of who made it, may sound bad but I don’t really care if it’s right or wrong, we’re getting figures hasbro didn’t give us and Mattel hasn’t bothered to listen to us properly either so long may it continue. Yeah I'm with you on this. KWK we're going to make Kamala before Major Pod Boys stepped in. Still kept the images as the figure looked incredible... That one was slightly different as he was making the figure without the families/estates permission, and said if they sue good luck as he's based in China. Pretty scummy. At least with Mitch proceeds do go to the estate. |
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Post by Bandalero on Oct 15, 2024 13:25:07 GMT -5
Wow my first G&G and I'm impressed!! Is it overpriced for a 2-pack with a useless Diane figure? Sure. I'm sure she's a nice lady, but this could have been a single card. And it would have been nice to have that Hasbro shine, but for what it's worth, it's my definitive Bulldog now. Better than his Hasbro-version in my opinion. The braids sculpting is a masterpiece. And his arms are just a smidgen shorter than Beefcake, but that's if I'm being extra picky. |
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@Chair.Shot
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Post by @Chair.Shot on Oct 15, 2024 14:39:32 GMT -5
Looks very cool! Always love seeing the WFW belts. I really do want this figure but I’m just have no desire for the Diana figure in my collection nor would it be worth much to sell.
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