voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Apr 11, 2023 18:59:01 GMT -5
He was clearly stating that $400 itself is reasonable. And the bigger issue is wondering why people WANT this to fail. The conversion is obviously a problem for non US customers, but do you still WANT it to fail? I would hope not. Also, I know the conversion problem is a big deal, but I think it is really sad that there aren't even enough fans in the US to support and back this. How is there not a minimum of 5,000 US fans willing to buy this?! I think that says a lot about the wrestling figure community and how much they are willing to spend. I can't even imagine what future projects would be backed, if we are even lucky enough to get future crowdfunds. The Raw stage is even bigger so it'll cost more, the Hell in the Cell would be tremendous and so many people are complaining about space, and vehicles might be a stretch especially after seeing how poorly received the Ghost Rider Haslab was. I think it could be that people are waiting to see if it funds or how close it gets. 400 is a lot to throw away for a month. I’d assume this is probably giving people time to accrue funds. Like take back all the dumb stuff you bought at target last month( speaking for a friend  ). Again, if you look at next gen crowd fund, a lot came out to push that but it required some maneuvering from mattel. I think some changes are coming. This is a once in a lifetime set that’s not easily or cheaply replicated. I’ll never understand this mindset. I’m not saying you are wrong, but I just can’t wrap my head around why these reasons are stopping people. 1. You aren’t charged until the end date IF it gets backed. 2. You can cancel. Even though people will argue it’s a hassle, it still can be done. 3. Waiting for other people to back is completely counterproductive. If everyone is waiting for others to back then we will never get any closer to stretch goals let alone the minimum 5,000. If anything, anyone that is interested, wants it, and can afford it, should be backing immediately and then they would see how close we can get. |
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Apr 11, 2023 18:54:45 GMT -5
How is there not a minimum of 5,000 US fans willing to buy this?! I don't think the set has gotten enough publicity to hit outside of the collectors world. I don't collect but I've followed this project since I saw it last year, and I'm willing to bet there are other people like me that aren't collectors but would still buy this piece for their home office, game room, desk, whatever. Major Pod has over 60,000 followers on Instagram, and this was shown to thousands at WM. I get what you’re saying in that there might be others that haven’t seen it, but it is out there. Between WM, Major Pod, and other YouTube influencers, this has had enough eyes for wrestling figure collectors that we should have at least hit 5,000. I don’t see how an audience that’s not from the collectors world would be willing to spend $400 on this when the actual wrestling collector fanbase is not. |
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Apr 11, 2023 17:03:44 GMT -5
I don't understand why anyone would WANT this to fail- anyone who thinks $400.00 is unreasonable hasn't been paying attention to inflation, and how far/not far money goes as it relates to toys (and everything...) these days. I'm probably not going to back it, but that's due to not having the space or extra money right now, and leaning more towards WWE from this era than WCW, but I still think it's fairly priced, even if it just includes Rey. I guess you're speaking on behalf of US collectors? I guess you haven't read the posts earlier in this thread discussing why collectors outside of the US are paying almost double what you are. I don't want to put a number on it, but there are likely many collectors worldwide who would absolutely love to support this but can't/won't because of the added costs we're being forced to pay that US collectors aren't on the hook for. As I mentioned a few pages back, I'm almost certain that I never had to pay duties, customs fees or any import taxes for the New Gen arena. I only had to pay dollar conversion from USD to CAD, and then the flat rate shipping cost. Now, all of these duties, customs and import fees have been tacked into the sticker price, driving up the cost an additional $150~ for Canadians. UK collectors and people from other places in the world have it just as bad, although I don't know the numbers for them off the top of my head. He was clearly stating that $400 itself is reasonable. And the bigger issue is wondering why people WANT this to fail. The conversion is obviously a problem for non US customers, but do you still WANT it to fail? I would hope not. Also, I know the conversion problem is a big deal, but I think it is really sad that there aren't even enough fans in the US to support and back this. How is there not a minimum of 5,000 US fans willing to buy this?! I think that says a lot about the wrestling figure community and how much they are willing to spend. I can't even imagine what future projects would be backed, if we are even lucky enough to get future crowdfunds. The Raw stage is even bigger so it'll cost more, the Hell in the Cell would be tremendous and so many people are complaining about space, and vehicles might be a stretch especially after seeing how poorly received the Ghost Rider Haslab was. |
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Apr 11, 2023 13:02:12 GMT -5
That would have been even worse. The $400 price tags is the stage and Rey. Everything else is EXTRA. So ok, take out Rey. The price tags for the stage would still be over $350. You think people would buy the stage for $350? Good luck. People won’t even buy the stage for $400 with the potential of getting five figures. The problem is that there is no potential of getting 5 figures. I am not knocking the set, nor any of the Mattel team that worked on it. It's still the most incredibly well done stage that ever did live.. however, it's not coming with 5 figures. If it was, it'd be backed by many more, I reckon. People are (rightly and realistically) wondering will they get 2 figures with it. To some, that just doesn't seem like good value (whether you agree with that or not, they're still entitled to their opinion).
I don’t disagree with the fact that we are most likely not reach any of the stretch goals, but what I was disputing is that it’s illogical to think the stage would have been funded as a product on its own when the stage would have been $350+ on its own. Also, you can’t really say there’s NO potential. Technically the crowdfund is all about potential. Is it highly, HIGHLY unlikely that we reach any stretch goal? Yes. But is it incorrect to say there’s a potential for five figures (or there was a potential for five figures before we lost hogan)? No. |
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Apr 11, 2023 7:29:48 GMT -5
Most of the included figures will have releases in other lines and these don't really do it. Like another poster stated offering the entrance stage alone might have been the way to go. That would have been even worse. The $400 price tags is the stage and Rey. Everything else is EXTRA. So ok, take out Rey. The price tags for the stage would still be over $350. You think people would buy the stage for $350? Good luck. People won’t even buy the stage for $400 with the potential of getting five figures. |
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Apr 11, 2023 7:27:55 GMT -5
i really hope they say screw it and add everything together for 5k to reel in more people to back it i backed 2 really want that stage Ugh another one… I feel bad for Steve having to weed through these baseless comments. |
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Apr 10, 2023 18:04:21 GMT -5
So I am curious on the thought here. I had posted this last night asking Steve if shuffling the figures around was an option, and unless I missed it, there was no answer. So I am wondering if either of these ideas would entice any of you that have not backed this to jump in: Hogan may not move the needle, but my initial thought is this option: 5,000 = Stage, Rey, & Hogan Minimum Needed 7,000 = DDP Unlocked 9,000 = Big Poppa Pump Steiner Unlocked 11,000 = Ultimate Warrior Unlocked HOWEVER - if there was an option to shuffle these around, I would suggest this: 5,000 = Stage, DDP, & Ultimate Warrior Minimum Needed 7,000 = Big Poppa Pump Steiner Unlocked 9,000 = Hogan Unlocked 11,000 = Rey Mysterio Unlocked There are literally pages of messages talking about this very topic. They are not going to switch the tiers. I am not saying that Steve confirmed this, but logistically, I cannot see how this is possible. Don't get your hopes up. |
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Apr 10, 2023 10:37:45 GMT -5
Again, just no understanding of how this works. Mattel didn't just pick numbers out of a hat and say let's make Warrior at 11,000 randomly. These numbers are strategically chosen based on production costs, profit margins, etc. If they could have offered us the figures at lower tiers then they would have. People just keep making up figures, numbers, and ideas without any basis or understanding of simple economics. Anything less than 11,000 for the stage and 5 figures is NOT a possibility. Stop suggesting it. Yes agreed but to his point, if there was no tiers and everything is guaranteed if gets to 11k backers, I am confident the number of backers would be much higher now. That said, many people are confusing what the backing is for….the entrance stage!! The figures are bonuses if enough people want the stage they’d have enough profits to sweeten the deal. But its apparent people want the DDP, Steiner or Warrior more than they want the stage so a lot of people aren’t backing it until those tiers will get hit (and that just won’t happen) Mattel doesn’t need a crowdfund to release an ultimate Scott Steiner. Haha The bigger issue was that he was suggesting to lower the tiers, not just get rid of them. Both are a no go since a tier system is how crowdfunds are run (the more backers, the more extra we get), and Mattel needs a minimum of 11,000 to be able to produce the stage and five figures. Like you said, many are not understanding that the figures are extra. I just can’t stand hearing all these “suggestions” of lowering the tiers. |
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Apr 10, 2023 10:33:56 GMT -5
Think it even lost one lol At 8am yesterday we were at 2008, we are now at 2010. It had hit 2011 and then went down to 2010. So it did in fact lose one. Also, for those worried about canceling, someone was able to pull it off. Must not be that tricky. |
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Apr 10, 2023 9:56:33 GMT -5
He is literally explaining it to you. It's not even a take. It is simply how a crowdfund works, and how Mattel needs to run it to make a profit. How much the stage is worth to you isn't what he is talking about. $400 is how much the stage + Rey costs for Mattel to sell to you at the lowest price possible and still make a small profit (because believe it or not businesses don't do things for free). If you don't think it is worth that (like your terrible sand analogy) then don't buy it. It's not worth getting into it with someone who is clearly very big mad that this isn't going well but I will tell you not to worry, I and many others aren't backing this lmao. I am not "big mad" that this isn't going well. I backed it because I like what they are offering, but if it doesn't get funded then I also saved $400. It is really a win win for me. What bothers me are people like you that are clearly not backing it, but decide to come in here with constant negativity and lack of understanding and baseless claims. It is actually funny to me that you are not backing and not invested, but get off on the project failing and wasting your time in a chat for something you're not interested in. But you do you man. |
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Apr 10, 2023 9:11:52 GMT -5
4. Figure selection - the figures are bonuses. The still seems to be a lot of people who don’t get the crowdfund model, the $400 is for the stage + Rey to get manufactured and make a profit. That manufacture includes tooling so any over the initial £5k the profits much larger hence the figures are thrown in as a bonus. Yes mattel still makes more and we still get more but people saying “$400 is too expensive for the stage” are missing that’s the cost mattel need to make it to reach their profit margin on it. , the consumer determines the value of things and how things should go. If the consumer focuses on the figures and the figures are what is making/breaking the crowdfund, then the figures are important. If the consumer says they don't see 400 dollars in value in the product, the product isn't worth 400 dollars regardless of how much it cost to produce. I could have a million dollars worth of sand and if I go to sell it an no one wants it, then the sand is worthless. The figures are also not "bonuses" when you get them as part of something you purchase, that's basic level marketing I see people falling for left and right here and after the New Gen Arena Mattel should have learned the importance of them. He is literally explaining it to you. It's not even a take. It is simply how a crowdfund works, and how Mattel needs to run it to make a profit. How much the stage is worth to you isn't what he is talking about. $400 is how much the stage + Rey costs for Mattel to sell to you at the lowest price possible and still make a small profit (because believe it or not businesses don't do things for free). If you don't think it is worth that (like your terrible sand analogy) then don't buy it. |
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Apr 10, 2023 8:39:54 GMT -5
My idea is to just to tell us we're getting all 5 figures if we back however we have to hit 10,000 backers total. So it lowers the threshold from 11K to 10K but it guarantees everyone all 5 figures. I think all of us saw the 5 figures and want them all no matter what. I think that's a big part of the hangup here. People want the guarantee. Get rid of the tiers and do a hail Mary all or nothing deal. If it hits 10k we get it and all 5 figures, if it doesn't we don't. I don't mind just the Stage and Rey. The stage is worth 400 to me but to a lot of people, it's not. Not sure if this would work at all but it would give people that guarantee of all 5 figs so maybe there would be a surge. Just an idea. Again, just no understanding of how this works. Mattel didn't just pick numbers out of a hat and say let's make Warrior at 11,000 randomly. These numbers are strategically chosen based on production costs, profit margins, etc. If they could have offered us the figures at lower tiers then they would have. People just keep making up figures, numbers, and ideas without any basis or understanding of simple economics. Anything less than 11,000 for the stage and 5 figures is NOT a possibility. Stop suggesting it. |
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Apr 9, 2023 21:16:18 GMT -5
That’s silly. They could have easily cancelled after April 7th if it didn’t reach 5,000. No reason for them to wait to see if it reaches when they know there’s a deadline for a certain figure. Easily is relative. It’s not like it’s the simple click of the button whenever you please, you have to call during business hours on a week day and a lot of people hate having to talk on the phone to anyone, much less to a customer service rep where you have no idea how long you have to hold. So having to make a phone call is the reason people are waiting… A phone call is definitely a difficult obstacle that I forgot to consider. |
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Apr 9, 2023 20:48:00 GMT -5
People who didn’t back in the first week, didn’t necessarily do it because they didn’t care about the Hogan. I’m sure many were concerned that if they backed early and it didn’t reach the 5,000 by April 7, but did by May 5, they would be backing only the stage and Rey. Whereas with the New Generation, if you backed before the early deadline, you were guaranteed the stage, Diesel, and Savage, as long as it reached 5,000 by the final deadline. That’s silly. They could have easily cancelled after April 7th if it didn’t reach 5,000. No reason for them to wait to see if it reaches when they know there’s a deadline for a certain figure. |
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Apr 9, 2023 20:46:38 GMT -5
and I suppose YOU have? I've worked in jobs that require customer service and the key is to always listen to the customer and work with them. Come to a middle ground. Are some of the asks out of the question? Absolutely, but there are a bit that would help. crapting on the people like me that are legitimately trying to brainstorm and come up with solutions aren't helping and just make you out to look like an bunghole. BTW, I used MUCH stronger words but this board does what it wants.... Ah the old 'I've worked in customer service so I know better than you how this will work'. News flash, most people have worked in customer service in some capacity. I'm fairly confident based on how testy you are that your 'customer service' experience is either retail or fast food (although this is where you correct me and say 'I'll have you know I've been in the biggest customer service agency for over 20 years, Buster Brown'. If that's the case then you need meds, because you clearly have a lot of anger associated with someone disagreeing with you.) All you've really shared is what YOU want them to do. Just switching the tiers around isn't going to magically fund this thing. The tiers are what they are for a reason. Hogan was a bonus because he was basically a repaint with a head that I'm sure we'll see sooner than later. Rey I'm sure they at least have a torso for, DDP looks like his parts are re-used. Steiner is a lot of new tooling, and Warrior also appears to have new leg tooling. This is why you need to reach a certain amount of money to justify the new tooling. If Steiner is first tier, they lose money because the tooling isn't in the base budget (which is Rey's tooling and the actual stage). Beyond the financials lots of people still don't have space so they won't back it, there's still the issues for the overseas buyers who won't back it on principle or because they can't afford to with the surcharges. I could be wrong, maybe changing the tiers would be easy for them and they will do it and it will fund. If that's the case, then I was wrong, but like I said, Mattel set it up this way for a reason. Wow, someone that understands how production costs, profit margins, and tooling works. It’s hard to find in this thread… People really need to stop asking Steve if we can lower the tiers or shift the tiers. There is a reason it was laid out this way! |
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Apr 9, 2023 20:41:05 GMT -5
Ah, so what you’re telling me is that you also don’t understand how stocks work… I do and SHAREHOLDERS have a say in company operations. Not everyone is like WWE who ignores them and then a rapist forces his way back on to the board..... This is just outright false. Being a shareholder does not give you a say in day-to-day operations. There are voting and non-voting stocks, but even with voting stocks, you only have a say through a vote. In the loosest connection possible, you can compare this scenario with having a “vote” (either backing or not backing), but you absolutely do not have a say in the choices like what tier Scott Steiner should be in. You’re not helping with your baseless suggestions. |
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Apr 9, 2023 20:23:28 GMT -5
How could you possibly think this is an option? You can’t rearrange the tiers after people already backed it. You’re then assuming that the people that had already backed it weren’t interested in the Rey and then you’re taking it away from them. This is what was offered. We either like it and back it, or don’t. We are lucky that Steve is even interacting with us at all on this. We really shouldn’t have any input whatsoever. This isn’t some main line item. It’s an exclusive offering. The feedback is in if we back it or not. All of these “opinions” are unnecessary and frankly show how little some people know about marketing, production, etc. For example, you stated earlier that Mattel would be making 4.4 million. Mattel is not walking away with a net profit of 4.4 million with 11,000 backers. You literally didn’t even take into account the production cost. For everyone saying “lower the tiers,” please stop making a fool of yourself. Steve even touched on this earlier. You need a certain number of backers to reach a certain revenue to reach a possibility of producing another figure. It is not financially possible for them to make all five figures and the stage for 5,000 backers. It’s ludicrous to even suggest that. The thing people are forgetting is we are not owed anything. Steve and the Mattel team worked hard to create an exclusive item that can only be made in a crowdfunding type scenario. It doesn’t NEED to be made, but it can be made if we want. If you don’t like the price, then don’t buy it. If you don’t like the figures, then don’t buy it. But enough with the negativity and suggestions. They worked hard on this, this was the offering we got, and we can simply choose to back it or not. It’s truly that simple. WE are the ones funding this, we ABSOLUTELY have a say in how things work. We aren't just buying something, we are making an investment. Because if this gets funded, they use our investment to use this setup for something else and have it be cheaper. The Nitro stage is a test run of things bigger so that when they are made, the parts and manufacturing are already there to make it. Are you going to invest money in stocks and then say that you shouldn't have any input whatsoever? That's basically what you're suggesting here. If they want our money, then they need to at least consider our suggestions as we who back are basically co-owners of this thing. Our stages and whatever else is backed is our share. Ah, so what you’re telling me is that you also don’t understand how stocks work… |
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Apr 9, 2023 20:22:58 GMT -5
Lots of assumptions in the last few pages. ‘Ok Steve, I’m about to save your tails. Here’s what you do, you switch the tiers around and I guarantee this will get it going. That’ll get me to buy several and others will too! Trust me, I’ve never spent a day in the toy manufacturing business, but I’m on this forum ALOT, I know how this stuff works. No need to thank me….you’re welcome 😉’ Amen. |
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Apr 9, 2023 19:47:11 GMT -5
We can’t lower tier goals or do anything that would impact costs further. Those things were precisely calculated. The MC team already pushed to get this to $400 as it really should be much more. In regards to int pricing/shipping, not my call there but I’ll reiterate that I’ve passed along all feedback on this and will continue to do so. So doing something like putting the Hogan and Steiner at 5K, DDP at 7K, Rey at 9K, and keeping Warrior at 11K wouldn’t work? How could you possibly think this is an option? You can’t rearrange the tiers after people already backed it. You’re then assuming that the people that had already backed it weren’t interested in the Rey and then you’re taking it away from them. This is what was offered. We either like it and back it, or don’t. We are lucky that Steve is even interacting with us at all on this. We really shouldn’t have any input whatsoever. This isn’t some main line item. It’s an exclusive offering. The feedback is in if we back it or not. All of these “opinions” are unnecessary and frankly show how little some people know about marketing, production, etc. For example, you stated earlier that Mattel would be making 4.4 million. Mattel is not walking away with a net profit of 4.4 million with 11,000 backers. You literally didn’t even take into account the production cost. For everyone saying “lower the tiers,” please stop making a fool of yourself. Steve even touched on this earlier. You need a certain number of backers to reach a certain revenue to reach a possibility of producing another figure. It is not financially possible for them to make all five figures and the stage for 5,000 backers. It’s ludicrous to even suggest that. The thing people are forgetting is we are not owed anything. Steve and the Mattel team worked hard to create an exclusive item that can only be made in a crowdfunding type scenario. It doesn’t NEED to be made, but it can be made if we want. If you don’t like the price, then don’t buy it. If you don’t like the figures, then don’t buy it. But enough with the negativity and suggestions. They worked hard on this, this was the offering we got, and we can simply choose to back it or not. It’s truly that simple. |
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Apr 9, 2023 16:54:08 GMT -5
How does this make any sense? We already had the chance to be guaranteed Hogan, Rey and the stage and barely 2,000 people backed it. Those three together isn’t enticing enough for people. For all the people that are waiting until it reaches a certain number are hurting this as well. I don’t understand why you wouldn’t back it first and then cancel if it doesn’t look like it’s reaches your tier versus waiting to back until it reaches the tier. You’re just taking another number away from the total. You won’t get charged yet anyway. They charged me already. No you didn’t. Unless you did the payment plan, you haven’t been charged yet. It’s only a pending charge and you won’t be charged until the project date ends (if it gets fully backed). |
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