maske2g
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Joined on: Jan 31, 2011 7:00:54 GMT -5
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Post by maske2g on Jan 7, 2017 10:20:04 GMT -5
Defining moments (blue robe) ric flair is on Amazon (UK) but it's 29.99 (It is prime eligible) I'd rather eat my own bile!!! That will be readily available on Amazon.com for about 20 quid within a month.
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maske2g
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jan 31, 2011 7:00:54 GMT -5
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Post by maske2g on Jan 6, 2017 17:24:23 GMT -5
They still are in a depression as is the entire world. Contrary to what the MSM says, the 'great recession' never ended, its still ongoing unfortunately. Agreed. Dow 20000. What a farce.
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maske2g
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Joined on: Jan 31, 2011 7:00:54 GMT -5
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Post by maske2g on Jan 6, 2017 15:59:44 GMT -5
Sorry. Maybe we should all just go play with our dolls, and never talk again....
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maske2g
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Joined on: Jan 31, 2011 7:00:54 GMT -5
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Post by maske2g on Jan 6, 2017 15:53:41 GMT -5
Okay, A LOT of new responses. When I make a thread on any forum, I really like to respond to everyone individually. That'll be kind of difficult here, so I'll respond to a few. Before I start though, I need to make something clear. Because this seems to be a recurring theme in many of the responses... I AM NOT saying anything bad about certain wrestlers or their importance or your own personal liking of certain people. That's not what this is about. This is about starting new lines with a bang. Something that has not been done. And I don't think it's a coincidence that every multipack elite line has failed. I also see that people keep mentioning distribution. That seems to be the running excuse. I get it. But you also have to understand if they had shortpacked EVERYTHING in the first Legends line besides Stone Cold, it wouldn't be cost effective. Take HOF for instance. Yes, in a perfect world, they would have only manufactured 13 Titos for the fringe few that wanted one. But it doesn't work like that. They have to manufacture a decent amount of at least some items in every series to hit the margins they want. By starting the line off with a bang, and then tapering off with later series having more obscure characters interspersed with bigger sellers, the lines have a better chance. That's the whole point. Mattel's pacing has been really poor in some cases. So just to reiterate one final time, this isn't about what I want. It's about logic and a strong start. Believe me, if it was about what I wanted, I'd have a 7 pack of Shawn Michaels Elites from 96-98. And I'd have 96 Warrior made yesterday. Hell, my own personal 3 pack TNF would be HBK, Ahmed Johnson, and Warrior, as my favorite tag team that never happened. So believe me, this is not about my own agenda.
1) I don't care whether you asked or not. If you want to make sweeping statements, you need to be prepared for counterpoints. The first legends wave had Stone COld Steve Austin. The biggest star ever in the business. If you aren't happy that we also got the biggest tag team of the 80's, in awesome attire, then I'm not sure whether your heart is really in this, or you are young and don't care about the 80's
2) American Made Hogan is a brilliant figure. What do you want???? More red and yellow??!?! Or are you just moaning that the MAttel Crystal ball didn't see the racism scandal coming and we didn't get the (Designed and made) Hollywood figure. That is not Mattels fault. They had a clear plan. DM.....a while late.....HH......a while later, maybe Tye dye. American made is from the time period where ironically Hulk Hogan MADE what wrestling is today. A Global behemoth.
3) Are you saying that the Horseman aren't one of the most famous and important teams in Wrestling history? Because again, if so, I'm not sure you really represent the interests of the fanbase of wrestling in it's current global size from the 80's onwards and you seem to have a personal agenda.
4 Your points are full of contradictions. Are you telling me that Undertaker Wrestlemania 14, was a bigger wrestling event than Stings first world title, or Ric Flairs last wrestling match? Because again that points to you having an agenda. It's no where near. The beauty of the first undertaker DM is in the attire. It's a phenomenal figure. MAttel have made an abundance of different Undertaker entrance attires, but you are singling out the one they don't have.
And are you seriously joking about TRiple H? After a great 5 year heel run he returns after 9 months out injured, that nearly ended his career and the fans go absolutely apepoop. This was a defining moment of TRiple H's career. And whilst I'm not a big fan, I recognise that he was an instrumental player in WWE and in the peak of his career before that injury.
5). NO. It doesn't mean nothing!!!! Have you not noticed the rereleases of figures that are selling for silly amounts? E19 HBK, Legends warrior, Boss man, Papa Shango, King BOoker, SDCC Taker. Why do you think this is?!?!? They were some of the most expensive figures on the secondary market. PLUS, you forget the fact that the set is cheap to make. A new Windham head, and a new Flair head, and all of a sudden we can get 4 elite figures for 50 bucks. You wouldn't even have got Tully for that price!!!
6) why do you care so much about the longevity of "Elite Tag teams" and 3 packs? They are never going to be long term, there simply isn't the appetite or the depth of possible content. If they don't sell as teams, they will just drop into other lines if the characters are big enough.. Plus, again, you have not thought about the fact they by dropping them in a 2, 3 or 4 pack we are getting more figures for our money? Cheaper for Mattel to make, cheaper for us to buy. It's a win-win.
For more niche characters, like The Wild samoans for instance, Would you prefer they eat up two spaces in the Elite Line for 20 bucks a piece? No, I didn't think so. So where do you put them in? What's your answer? Your answer seems to be, "Lets have another hall and nash, and we won't bother with an 80's tag team, because I don't care about them"
What they represent, once again, is a real lack of options for legends now. I mean they are releasing an Isaac Yankem..... There are 40 wrestlers we could think of that are more important to wrestling history, but MATTEL CAN'T MAKE THEM.
You seem to know all the problems, but you don't seem to have the solutions. Just poor alternate suggestions. A four pack with Nash and Hall. Like the one that has been cancelled you mean?......
1) Again, I only brought it up as a reference point that it should have been a learning opportunity for Mattel in the future. And almost all the lessons learned from it have not been applied. Aside from picking better attires (most of the time). But since we're on the topic, yes the choices overall were poor. And now you're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say anything bad about Stone Cold. As a matter of fact, Stone Cold was the only choice in early Legends that made sense. People keep talking about distribution being the problem. But that goes hand in hand with sales. You can't move units if people don't want them. And if you shortpack them like so many are saying, then you don't make as much of a profit. That can work with a certain number of figures per line. But to do that with every figure in Legends Series 1 besides Stone Cold would have made the venture pointless for Mattel to pursue. They are a company after all. As far as the no love for the 80s comment, see the above for my general statement. The bottom line is that Legends were poorly chosen and paced. They didn't get to Warrior until series 3, at which point the line was already suffering. And they chose a terrible attire. They didn't get it right until series 6 Warrior, at which point the line was dead. And if you want further proof that they should have released him sooner, look at the fact that he got RERELEASED. That's the whole point of this thread that so many people seem to be missing. It's about STARTING OFF WELL. A lot of these figures can be made, but they shouldn't be kicking off the lines. 2) See everyone keeps doing this in every thread. You're defending the validity of that Hogan character. The bottom line is most people buying figures didn't know or care for that gimmick. And no, I don't expect Mattel to have a crystal ball. At the same time, given Hogan's mercurial relationship with WWE, it would have been wiser to get his main gimmicks out sooner than later. But that's a different topic for another day. 3) Dude, THE HORSEMEN SOLD POORLY. What part of that don't you understand? You can blame whatever you want. It absolutely contributed to the death of 4 packs. I'm not saying they weren't huge wrestlers or that even the figures themselves weren't great. They were. It was just a TERRIBLE choice for the first multipack of Elites since Legends, which failed for the exact same reason. 4) It's not about what was bigger. It's about what sells. GAB Sting did not sell the way Elite 23 Undertaker did. Hell, there's a reason it got a rerelease. It's that good! Again, not a reflection on my thoughts about Sting. He's one of my favorites of ALL TIME. No agenda here. 5) Very flawed logic. Just because a figure is scalped for high prices, that alone doesn't mean it needs to be revisited. It had to have had decent sales before or Mattel would have to be very confident that the timing (or what seems to be everyone's favorite go to, distribution) was off. And you just contradicted yourself. HORSEMEN FAILED. I feel like you're having acceptance issues with that. 6) Um, yes I care about longevity. I don't think it would be good for Mattel to make new lines and have them bottom out after one series over and over again. And to say that they can't be long term is just asinine. There could be Elite 2 packs for years if the pacing and roster selection were up to par. Kicking off with NOD is the antithesis of that. And poor argument at the end there. The Hall and Nash pack didn't get made because of the failure of the two sets before it. And if you really think they would sell just as poorly as the Horsemen did, you need to reexamine your love affair with the 80s. I get it. You liked that period. I did too. But stop thinking with emotion and think logically. EVERY MULTI ELITE LINE HAS FAILED. And every single one of them started off with poor roster choices. That is not a coincidence. 1). So what you are basically saying is. They should have released The Rock, Warrior, Stone Cold, and Red Legion of Doom in line 1. And then all the mid carders after? That would have worked really really well....... The proximity to CS is MASSIVE. Not wanting to make clones of Jakks outfits so close to their release was completely logical. And the point from somebody else, that the US was in the biggest depression since 1930 is absolutely relevant. Hind sight is a wonderful thing.....and that's why Mattel are still making figures 7 years on. They evidently made adjustments. You don't think Legends were successful? They were...They were renamed flashbacks/HOF/TNF. And we've had approx 107 different legendary/flashback/HOF wrestlers, covering over 250 attires and gimmicks. That is over 35 per year. You would not have dreamed we would get that many in 2011. Simply rebranding them is a good thing. It keeps things fresh. While ultimately being the same thing. If they were a failure, would we have had 250? If the top figures of all time were all released in year 1, would Mattel still be making wrestlers? NEVER. The NOW NOW NOW generation need to be left anticipating more. It's even more prevalent today than ever due to their heightened agitation when they can't get what they want immediately. 2) If nobody cared for that gimmick, they would have not been a Wrestlemania 1. It's utterly absurd to suggest that. Did it warrant the extra money of being an exclusive? Maybe that's where the argument lies. And no... again.....why would they bring out Hollywood HH and 87 Hogan, and Tye Dye Hogan in the first month they possibly could?!?!?! Always leave them wanting more. It's classic marketing 101. Once people have those.....who would go and but 3-4 modern day Hogans that were released? only the hardcore. 3) Hasn't it already been said numerous times that they sold great, and then Target ordered crap loads more? If the Horseman were released in the normal line, and to a toy store, and not poopty Target, we wouldn't have seen piles of 40 in one store. They were never sold globally. Not Canada, not the UK, not Europe. Target are p1ss poor. It's written about continually because it's true. I'm from the UK and I've seen it in some of America's biggest cities just how poor the stores are, on numerous occasions. God knows how people cope in small towns with Target exclusives. 4) I think what we are seeing from the old NWA and WCW figures, is that the fan base is niche. It was never anywhere near as big as WWE before the NWO. The elation of people on here, clearly does not translate to mass audiences. You cannot blame Mattel for that. They released hugely requested figures. This has been just as apparent with mid to low card, old school WWE stars. Saying that, When you have a name like STING enter the HOF, debut at Wrestlemania, etc, if you don't release the iconic looks that mattel have done, you would be even more irate, and would just question that instead. "What, how can you not release GAB Sting?" We will probably see less WCW figs from that late 80's early 90's era because of it. Which is a shame. That undertaker you refer to, is that the some one that was on Amazon last week for $8.33? Erm.....yes it is.... 5. I actually agree with you. They shouldn't have been revisited. The demand was there for the small amount being resold yes, But that doesn't translate to masses. Almost all of the rereleases have all been $10 dollars or less at some point. That clearly was the reason they were remade though, which was my point. And don't forget. To remake a figure, it costs significantly less than a brand new one. So Mattel are laughing all the way to the bank. 6. You keep looking back at first lines of figures. But again, they have all had a strong top 10 ever wrestler in the set. Stone Cold, Piper (2 pack), Flair (4 pack) The Rock (two pack). Macho Man DM HBK DM, Macho Man TNF 3 pack. Sting TNF 3 pack. You cannot ask for more than that without Saturating the line with the highlights from the off. The importance of spreading them out is just as big if not bigger. That's why Mattel will have been making figures for 10 years at the end of this deal They haven't failed. We've had over 250 superstars made, from Wrestling history. I know....I made the checklist up the top there!! When you actually look throughout history of the lines. Whatever guise they were in. Mattel have wonderfully spread out the headline figures. Legends. 1 Stone Cold. 3 The Rock. 4 Warrior. 5. Macho Man. 6 Warrior and first ever Texas Tornado. DM 1 HBK and first ever Macho Man. We proceed to get Warrior, HHH, Taker, The Dragon, Elite 2 packs and HOF are/were testing the water. It's harder to sell 2 pack sand 3 packs, and 4 packs. This place erupted for the Horseman. It went wild for the Heenan family It loved NOD Farooq (the figure was poop though) . The Rock will always sell alone, he is the biggest film star in the world, but I blame the execution of that Farooq figure for that figure still knocking about cheap. It's horrible. As is the Wyndham as I said. The Heenan set is wonderful. Hand's up those who have seen it in store??? eeeew. Online??? never..... You are now getting another highly scalped figure in Papa Shango, and Warriors just sell. The flashbacks have been nicely spread out over the series. a smattering here and there. The Hulk, Ric Flair and Razor were a great way to bring back the DM's. We are still getting more obscure figures like Harlem Heat in the regular line. The two pack legends were not ideal choices at the time I agree, but we got L.O.D and Demolition in the singles packs. Hand to heart, how many more great tag teams, WHO WERE SIGNED, could have been chosen at the time. The important part there is the bit in capitals. Who was signed at the time. They probably didn't have a lot onboard to work with. Also If you look at the amount of tag teams released as single packs. Maybe that is a deliberate ploy? Maybe Mattel knows they can charge more for L.O.D and Demolition, and the Harts, because they know they will sell better individually, for more money, and hence bigger profit? Just a thought, but there is a clear pattern there.... P.S Yeah, I know that was the reason Nash and Hall were not released. It was a jibe. But I maintain, how can you do an NWO 4 pack without the leader of the N.W.O? It would have been like the Horseman set with no Flair. As useful as a chocolate teapot.....
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maske2g
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Post by maske2g on Jan 6, 2017 14:16:37 GMT -5
Nearly all of the points in the original post have been brought up, explained, and brought up again, a millions times. - The reason that the attires in the legends were obscure was because Mattel didn't want to clone attires just made by Jakks.
There have been many lengthy agreements that the timing of the line was probably a bigger cause of the failure. It was too soon after Classic superstars, and people were unsure whether to start that commitment again, especially when the releases were so sparse.
Mattel had a long term deal that was extended. You can't release all the prime figures in the first few years. If you don't hold anything back, then you will lose the interest of long term collectors like us.
The reason that the DM line has some non DM events is because they have run out of DM events. e.g Ultimate Warriors' other defining moments had been released in other lines. And actually, while shortlived (3-4 appearances) everyone still remembers Ultimate Maniacs. But what are they going to make instead? When posed with that question, the forum did not have the answers.
- The HOF 4 packs, were actually fantastic sets. When announced people were very excited.
Matty Collector Arn and Tully Blanchard was going for silly amounts of money. Barry Windham was a new figure (allbeit a terrible figure). The Horseman are in the top 5 stables of all time.
The heenan family. Two new figures. Bobby The Brain in WM 3 attire and a fantastic BJS figure. Then a second Elite Perfect, and new fantastic Andre sculpt.
The problem with those is not the selection. The problem is that Target are DOGSHYTE!
- I don't see the point of the Shield 3 pack either, though it will sell like hot cakes. The Bash at the beach 3 pack is iconic. They aren't great figs and I just feel that WCW figs in general are for a small target market, but to call them a bad choice is ridiculous. What do you want, more of the same over and over again? We cry out for new figures.
You have to start being realistic about what is left in Mattel's lifespan with respect to former stars. There really aren't a lot left to make.
The alumni is thread bare. The amount of people in litigation with WWE is massive. Then you have the No-go's like Owen Hart, and dead people they can't trace like Dino Bravo's family.
And this is why we are getting more Sgt SLaughters', JBL's, Rereleases, Warrior's, HBK's and Macho's coming out of our ears. They sell for MAttel. They have attires for days, You see them on shelves, because they are made in far larger quantities than e.g the new Alex Bliss basic etc etc. THink about it.....The Ultimate Warrior....Alexa Bliss. Who is going to sell more ??? Did you have to think long........ good post. lots of great points! but theres plenty of more figs to make and wrestlers to sign. jakks had no prob signing nearly 80 more other wrestlers for figs. if its only about $$$, then i guess more Warriors all day. but I know I and many others would prefer more new wrestlers/figs to collect. heres a few to go after: Hercules Don Muraco Harley Race Superstar Billy Graham Freddie Blassie Greg Valentine Rick Steiner Bad News Brown Brother Love Zeus Mr.T Giant Gonzales Howard Finkel Nikita Koloff Haku Mr Fuji (RIP) Crush (good/evil) Virgil Great Muta Midnight Express British Bulldogs Rock & Roll Express Mattel do not have the same deal as Jakks. They can't sign people who aren't signed to WWE. I would love all those. We are never going to get a Dynamite kid thats for sure.
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maske2g
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Joined on: Jan 31, 2011 7:00:54 GMT -5
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Post by maske2g on Jan 6, 2017 11:52:42 GMT -5
Everyone hates build a figure!!
Just put out the Mene Gene already.
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maske2g
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Post by maske2g on Jan 6, 2017 11:44:26 GMT -5
I can't tell you the name cos it's an RC competitor, but look on the "Wrestling figure network" page.
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maske2g
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Post by maske2g on Jan 6, 2017 11:42:59 GMT -5
It seems like the nwo should of been represented in these 2 or 3 figure packs especially Hall and Nash. Surprised they didn't maybe save Afa and SIka for another wave. In the next 2 or 3 packs it would be great to see the nwo, faces of foley or the brood if they could get the rights to Gangrel. NWO without Hollywood, is like Lager with no alcohol, Paul with no John, and Burger with no bun.
TEPID!!!
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maske2g
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Post by maske2g on Jan 6, 2017 10:02:13 GMT -5
]We got Storm Hulk, which still hasn't arrived. It's awesome. I agree with about 80% of your points, but I really cooled off on that Hogan and decided to cancel my preorder. I just don't think the head sculpt is there. You're going to think I'm BSing, but I think it has some resemblance to Storm's Dennis Rodman sculpt. It's still a good figure and I could've overlooked it, if Hogan were in traditional 80's yellow trunks or NWO Hollywood. Like how I overlooked Hot Toys Han Solo's very mediocre sculpt because I really needed ANH Han, for example. Stone Cold's head shape really missed the mark, but I think Mattel's and Jakks' have issues too. SHF is still a very well executed figure and a good alternative to Mattel's exaggerated muscles and sometimes wonky anatomy and proportions. Look at the arms and shoulders on SHF. They are sleek, tie in beautifully, and are pretty spot on to real life Austin. They're only broken up by the double jointed elbow, which a lot of people wanted on a Mattel figure: Yeah, I don't like the angry one to be fair. The attire choice is a weird one.
I agree on that Han Solo. I haven't actually bought it yet, for the same reason.
We all know the reused parts are what keeps the cost down, and the figures have "Idyllic" Physiques. But when it comes to non standard, you aren't going to see man boob Jericho, with deformed pecs on any figure ever!!!!
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maske2g
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Post by maske2g on Jan 6, 2017 9:23:48 GMT -5
It's been confirmed by a well known rival store (PR), that Wave A is Walmart exclusive. Wave B is the same as A, but with Warrior and Undertaker, and is NOT Walmart exclusive. I must've missed this bit. when was this confirmed? On PR's facebook page.
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maske2g
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Post by maske2g on Jan 6, 2017 8:37:24 GMT -5
It's been confirmed by a well known rival store (PR), that Wave A is Walmart exclusive. Wave B is the same as A, but with Warrior and Undertaker, and is NOT Walmart exclusive.
Yet, you will continue to trust 2 bob customer services reps at Asda/Smyths/ wherever who can't even spell WWE.....
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maske2g
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Post by maske2g on Jan 6, 2017 8:34:02 GMT -5
Just been to my local Smyth's, the guy behind the counter said he doesn't believe they're gonna have 47 in stock, his exact words were "We don't always get every wave in, and because it isn't on the website and 48 is, then he doesn't think we'll be getting 47" HAHAH,
That's absolutely gold. Smyths have never skipped a single Basic or Elite wave in the regular line.
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maske2g
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Post by maske2g on Jan 6, 2017 8:28:42 GMT -5
2 quid dearer than Toys R us too.
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maske2g
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Post by maske2g on Jan 6, 2017 8:17:34 GMT -5
Studies do show that if you have invested in something you will see what you want to see....
What time period did Stone cold get a massive middle eastern-esque nose and flared nostrils? I must have missed it....
That's nonsense. 1) Show me this exact study. 2) I'm not invested in anything. It's not like I own stock in Bandai. I do have a pair of eyeballs, though, along with these figures in my hands, which sounds to me like more than you've got. Do you have the figures in your hands, right now? 3) Are we...not all capable of flaring our noses at some point? I'm confused on that one... 4) Buy them, don't buy them. I care not one iota. But don't try to invalidate someone's opinion just because it's not one that you share. I didn't do that with you, reciprocate the favor. And certainly don't insult my intelligence by implying that I'm incapable of looking beyond my own nose. 1) It's not limited to money, it's called confirmation bias, and there are thousands. 2) I won't be getting it in my hands, because I've seen over 50 photos from different angles and not one of them looks like Stone cold. 3) Yes, Stone Cold was well known for walking around flaring his nostrils. As I said in previous, the big nose makes it look more like 50 year old Stone Cold. 30 year old STone cold had a small nose. 4) Surely that would be insulting your eyesight.......
FWIW, I'd hoped and prayed for a some premium wrestling figures for a long time. I was hoping for Hot Toys.
We got Storm Hulk, which still hasn't arrived. It's awesome. The Mcfarlane are garbage, with the exception of MMRS. The WWE statues are even worse. They look like tacky garden gnomes.
At those price points, there should simply be no cause for argument, or discrepancy. These figures are completely polarising, which suggests that they haven't hit the mark. They are already reduced too.
I would love one of the new guys, Blitzway, or Threezero to get a WWE licence. The sculpts from that Korean girl that was poached from Hot toys, make that Stone Cold figure look like it came in a Kinder surprise.
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maske2g
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Post by maske2g on Jan 6, 2017 7:19:18 GMT -5
That isn't a fact, though. That's still an opinion. I'm staring at it right now, and yeah...that looks like Stone Cold. Sorry that you don't see it, but it's there. Studies do show that if you have invested in something you will see what you want to see....
What time period did Stone cold get a massive middle eastern-esque nose and flared nostrils? I must have missed it....
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maske2g
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Post by maske2g on Jan 6, 2017 7:06:13 GMT -5
Nash and Hall wouldn't have saved the 4-Packs if Targets keep over ordering/poor distribution.
Precisely.
Mattel have zero impact on the distribution at Target / Walmart etc. I guess if Target balls up exclusives, they will get less exclusives.
Walmart seem to have been successful will with TNF to the point that we don't get a sniff of them at Asda (WAlmarts' UK shops....)
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maske2g
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Post by maske2g on Jan 6, 2017 6:56:30 GMT -5
I remember a few people losing their minds when it was announced 8 (EIGHT?! Jeez!!) years ago that Jakks was losing the WWE license, and that Mattel would be taking it over in 2010. Some people threw the biggest hissy fit temper tantrums, claiming that they were done collecting, that nothing could top Jakks, etc., etc. Then, Mattel revealed some images before the big January 1st, 2010 launch, and those very same people went completely ape. The Mattels were clearly superior items, better sculpting, better paints, better proportions, etc. Do you remember what their complaints were? I do. -They're too small compared to Jakks. -They don't match up with the Jakks stuff. -They look too skinny, the proportions are all off. -They cost too much money. -Those look nothing like the wrestlers, horrible scans! It's funny how those people shut up when they got the things in their mitts. Sounds like those same people are still around, and now projecting that same mentality to the Figuarts. I love me the Mattel stuff, but these are clearly superior, and there's nothing wrong with admitting that. You're entitled to your preferences and opinions, sure. But stop fooling yourself. The quality is not in doubt. the accuracy at that price point is a disgrace. It's not even an opinion. It's a fact that it doesn't look like Stone Cold Steve Austin in his pomp.
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maske2g
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Post by maske2g on Jan 6, 2017 6:20:47 GMT -5
Okay couple things... 1) I didn't ask for the reasoning behind legends. It doesn't matter. The end result was the same, which was bad choices killed the line. I only brought up Legends as a reference point. 2) You're right, you can't dole out all the big guns at once. But you can't rest on your laurels either (American Made Hogan anyone?). I guess the solution is somewhere between the two. 3) To add to the second point, you can have a solid inaugural line without using your biggest weapon. But the key is a solid start. It's smart to conserve power to let loose later... But if you start off too sluggish, it gets too hard to catch up. HOF 4 Pack found that out the hard way. I'm sure they had some great ideas in the pipeline. But they fumbled too hard in the beginning to get the chance. 4) There are tons of DMs that can still be made. To name a few... WM 14 Undertaker (with entrance coat). 2000 HHH trunks Triple H. 96 Warrior with Duster. All 3 of those are a hell of a lot more defining than the DMs of them that have already come out. The 96 SS Undertaker was obscure as hell and he only wore that attire like twice. The DM Triple H that came out a while back was pointless and contributed to the poor sales that killed the line the first time. And Maniacs Warrior belonged in a regular line. But I'm not as worried about the DMs because the line is alive and they've done enough to keep it afloat for a few more releases at least. Can't say it's looking great though. GAB Sting didn't seem to fly off the shelves. Ditto for Cena. And I doubt Flair is going to be bolstering the line anytime soon. 5) Okay Arn and Tully being scalped means nothing. Wasn't MVP going for a lot at one point? Does that mean he would sell well if mass-produced? No way. I'm sure people on here were excited about the 4 packs. But the thing is, the sales obviously show that the masses didn't agree. Blame whatever you want. But the line failed. And I have no doubt that the weak roster choices they made for the first two sets was the biggest contributor. You and others keep bringing up distribution. Well, the sets are in stores now. So why aren't the people who couldn't buy them clearing them out? They're half price after all (a tell-tale sign of failure). And I'm not judging the Horsemen as wrestlers. I'm judging the decision to make them the inaugural line. It was bad. The line getting cancelled (and them still rotting on shelves) proves that. I guarantee if they had opened with a 4 pack that included HBK, Nash, red and black Hall, and (insert pretty much any other HOFer here because the set was already sold with the first 3), no way in hell they would still be on shelves. 6) Again, you keep telling me how awesome this figure is and that figure is. I'm not disagreeing with you. This is not about the quality of the figures themselves (although the new Sting is inexplicably bad). It's about starting these Elite multipacks (which Mattel has failed several times now) with a bang. They should have learned from Legends and Legends Tag Teams that with these Elites, you can't get super risky and obscure to start off the line. Are the Wild Samoans quality figures? Yes. Do they deserve to be made at some point? Sure, why not? Do they deserve to kick off an Elite Tag line that has failed twice now because of bad inaugural lineups? How long do you have to think about that one?
1) I don't care whether you asked or not. If you want to make sweeping statements, you need to be prepared for counterpoints. The first legends wave had Stone COld Steve Austin. The biggest star ever in the business. If you aren't happy that we also got the biggest tag team of the 80's, in awesome attire, then I'm not sure whether your heart is really in this, or you are young and don't care about the 80's
2) American Made Hogan is a brilliant figure. What do you want???? More red and yellow??!?! Or are you just moaning that the MAttel Crystal ball didn't see the racism scandal coming and we didn't get the (Designed and made) Hollywood figure. That is not Mattels fault. They had a clear plan. DM.....a while late.....HH......a while later, maybe Tye dye. American made is from the time period where ironically Hulk Hogan MADE what wrestling is today. A Global behemoth.
3) Are you saying that the Horseman aren't one of the most famous and important teams in Wrestling history? Because again, if so, I'm not sure you really represent the interests of the fanbase of wrestling in it's current global size from the 80's onwards and you seem to have a personal agenda.
4 Your points are full of contradictions. Are you telling me that Undertaker Wrestlemania 14, was a bigger wrestling event than Stings first world title, or Ric Flairs last wrestling match? Because again that points to you having an agenda. It's no where near. The beauty of the first undertaker DM is in the attire. It's a phenomenal figure. MAttel have made an abundance of different Undertaker entrance attires, but you are singling out the one they don't have.
And are you seriously joking about TRiple H? After a great 5 year heel run he returns after 9 months out injured, that nearly ended his career and the fans go absolutely apepoop. This was a defining moment of TRiple H's career. And whilst I'm not a big fan, I recognise that he was an instrumental player in WWE and in the peak of his career before that injury.
5). NO. It doesn't mean nothing!!!! Have you not noticed the rereleases of figures that are selling for silly amounts? E19 HBK, Legends warrior, Boss man, Papa Shango, King BOoker, SDCC Taker. Why do you think this is?!?!? They were some of the most expensive figures on the secondary market. PLUS, you forget the fact that the set is cheap to make. A new Windham head, and a new Flair head, and all of a sudden we can get 4 elite figures for 50 bucks. You wouldn't even have got Tully for that price!!!
6) why do you care so much about the longevity of "Elite Tag teams" and 3 packs? They are never going to be long term, there simply isn't the appetite or the depth of possible content. If they don't sell as teams, they will just drop into other lines if the characters are big enough.. Plus, again, you have not thought about the fact they by dropping them in a 2, 3 or 4 pack we are getting more figures for our money? Cheaper for Mattel to make, cheaper for us to buy. It's a win-win.
For more niche characters, like The Wild samoans for instance, Would you prefer they eat up two spaces in the Elite Line for 20 bucks a piece? No, I didn't think so. So where do you put them in? What's your answer? Your answer seems to be, "Lets have another hall and nash, and we won't bother with an 80's tag team, because I don't care about them"
What they represent, once again, is a real lack of options for legends now. I mean they are releasing an Isaac Yankem..... There are 40 wrestlers we could think of that are more important to wrestling history, but MATTEL CAN'T MAKE THEM.
You seem to know all the problems, but you don't seem to have the solutions. Just poor alternate suggestions. A four pack with Nash and Hall. Like the one that has been cancelled you mean?......
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maske2g
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jan 31, 2011 7:00:54 GMT -5
Posts: 2,972
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Post by maske2g on Jan 6, 2017 5:33:32 GMT -5
Are you opening it? If so doesn't rinsing it in warm water take out the excess dye? If your leaving it moc don't worry about it Ah I'm opening them, soaking them does take out the excess dye, but seemingly when the figure has been packaged wearing the garment there's a risk of the dye already running onto the figure before you open it (like what happened with the new Rusev, heard a lot of people saying it happened with the original Yokozuna Elite too) My Rusev was ok mate. Very minor. But after washing, I don't intend ever taking the jacket off again. The run isn't as bad as old figs like The Model and the red on Koslov.
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maske2g
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jan 31, 2011 7:00:54 GMT -5
Posts: 2,972
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Post by maske2g on Jan 6, 2017 5:22:46 GMT -5
The HOF 2 packs are not equally weighted. More of the Warrior-Shango packs were made than the Samoans. As to why they were chosen they are a visually interesting team where one of the members is the father of one of the biggest stars in WWE at the moment ( whether you boo or cheer him, he sells a LOT of figures). The Shango is slightly different from the original version if you compare closely. Added deco. Finally a confirmation of the obvious from MDT themselves that quantities will vary.
I hope this can be reposted every time someone talks about a shelf warming Warrior......
"Why do they keep making Warriors' when they rot on shelves???"
Because they are a billion dollar company and they know when to manufacture more or less of something that sells or doesn't....
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