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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on Nov 25, 2010 19:30:47 GMT -5
This is from Season 9 of The Hardy Show. The audio is only slightly distorted. You can CLEARLY tell that Jeff is drunk, at the least bit. But who cares? Its not like the dude is then shown getting into a car and driving off. Everything that Jeff says concerning Punk is true. He is cocky. And Jeff DID make CM Punk. Punk rose to be the top heel in the business all piggybacked off of how popular Jeff was. There wasnt an intent to make Punk a heel. The crowd just reacted to anti Punk, that it had to happen. Jeff/Punk is probably the best feud we have seen in the past 10 years. Forget Cena/Orton, Joe/Angle, HHH/Orton, Cena/Edge, Sting/Angle, etc. Hardy and Punk was RED HOT. If Hardy had stayed, they would have been headlining WM and bringing home bank. Punk is the Anti-Hardy, as Hardy is the Anti-Punk. They had magic. I dont know if Punk uses a prescription sleeping aide, but really who cares? So what if he does? Having trouble sleeping is no huge thing and getting a sleep aide is no biggie. Though I am a little hard pressed to believe he does, cuz I heard he doesnt even use asprin. Punk is definitely the better mic. worker and in ring technician, but Jeff Hardy is and was more over than Punk has ever been and he DOES owe Jeff a huge bit of gratitude for putting him there. Hardy may have given Punk the rub, and provided an antithesis to Punk's character, but there's no way hardy made Punk. Punk was one of the most over indy wrestlers coming into WWE. There's a reason he got pushed, similar to Danielson's push now. WWE is tapping into a chunk of their wrestling audience that is becoming increasingly influential in the direction of pro wrestling. I think that's evidenced on how the WWE allows these guys to keep their basic character. Punk is similar ro what he was in the indies, as is Bryan. In the past, you rarely seen the indy guys come up and keep their same gimmick. Obviously, WWE is aware of something that's working. So while WWE may have provided the proper vehicle for Punk's exposure, and Hardy the proper storyline to build that exposure, I'd have to disagree that either one made Punk. Made him more well known? Yes! Made him? Don't think so,imo. As far as the apathy towards Jeff's state in the video, I;ll have to disagree as well. He represents a company and he also has two previous charges and pending court cases/jail time. Is this really what TNA wants as exposure? Is this really wise On Jeff Hardy's part to be even showing these type of videos considering his history and pending future? I'd think it would be a big deal to him and TNA. Umm....Hardy MADE Punk. I'll say it again. Hardy MADE Punk. Please dont act like you knew who CM Punk was before he hit WWE. You forget I knew you before Punk ever came to WWE. You may have checked out a dvd or 2 since he came to WWE, but its not like you were following his career from the midwest to ROH and all around. All that being said, what Punk did in the indys means SQUAT to his position in WWE. When he got there, he lingered on ECW and jobbed to Morrison on countless nights. It wasnt till Morrison's steroid suspension, that Punk finally achieve gold. And at the time, I still think WWE did it less b/c Punk deserved it and more b/c they really had no one else to put it on at the time. So where was this mysterious push you mentioned? It was more than a year before Punk got the ECW title. And WWE always had the ECW title below even the US and IC, it hardly even got defended on ppv. Danielson won the IC Title within his first 6 months there and has gotten big wins on big stars, worked ppv matches, main evented Summer Slam, etc. Danielson got a push....Punk got pushed down. Dont forget that Punk in his first 6 months had 1 PPV match. Danielson has had 3. Their pushes look nothing alike. When you make statements that Punk is similar to what he was on the indies and Danielson is too.....just shows you didnt watch them. I mean, let me retract a bit. Punk.....a little. Punk as a babyface in WWE was similar to Punk as a babyface on the indys. When Punk formed the SES, he was again even more similar to what he was on the indys. However, Danielson is NOTHING like he was on the indys. Coming out to ridiculous music, being promoted as a vegan, doesnt own a tv, or being portrayed by Cole as a dork is NOTHING like Danielson on the indys. Who the would dare call Danielson a dork on the indys?! Danielson was a technical artist....best in the world, babyface or heel. I dont know if this was your intent, but it sounded like you were saying that WWE was listening to smarks and wanted indy talent. Punk, Danielson, Tyler Black.....ok sure. But they arent listening to the smarks. Nope, not in the least bit. WWE is still targeting kids. Plain and simple.....young kids. Just look at the seasons of NXT.....you get like 1 or 2 indy talents and the rest of them are former fitness models or gym rats that no crap about WWE. You make it sound like Jeff Hardy is the only wrestler to ever appear drunk on a youtube video. I do agree that its not professional, but lets face it....pro wrestling bends rules all the time. Please also keep in mind, that this stuff was shot in EARLY this year. I mean, real early. And again, he appears drunk and being drunk in a diner isnt against the law. Does TNA want this on youtube? Hell no. Does Jeff Hardy? HELL NO! These videos are only available to The Hardy Show subscribers or people who buy the dvds. Someone has taken copyrighted material and posted it on youtube. Thats like if you had a sex tape with your boyfriend ( ;D) and someone posted it on youtube. Should you be condemned for this? Its not illegal. You did nothing wrong. You didnt post it. You didnt want it on youtube. But someone else did it to you. Lastly, if you believe that ANYONE is over with a WWE audience based on what they did on the indys, you are fooling yourself. WWE doesnt give 2 craps. They used to. There was a time, thats where they were getting their talent from.....Edge, Christian, The Hardys, Helms, Shannon Moore, Joey Abs, Mercury, Christian York, Test, Joe E. Legend, Rhino, etc. Not anymore. And being over with the indy crowd is like being over with 100 people in a WWE crowd. You forget that most indy companies draw 50-100 people MAX. Others like ROH can get 1000. But these are no where NEAR WWE crowds and they arent filled with little kids. You want to say that Punk is better in the ring or on the mic. I agree. You want to say that Punk made a name for himself on the indy circuit. I agree. But CM Punk was a nobody in the WWE eyes and the eyes of most WWE fans till Jeff Hardy. And thats a fact.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2010 20:32:18 GMT -5
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Post by deskjet on Nov 25, 2010 21:27:56 GMT -5
Hardy may have given Punk the rub, and provided an antithesis to Punk's character, but there's no way hardy made Punk. Punk was one of the most over indy wrestlers coming into WWE. There's a reason he got pushed, similar to Danielson's push now. WWE is tapping into a chunk of their wrestling audience that is becoming increasingly influential in the direction of pro wrestling. I think that's evidenced on how the WWE allows these guys to keep their basic character. Punk is similar ro what he was in the indies, as is Bryan. In the past, you rarely seen the indy guys come up and keep their same gimmick. Obviously, WWE is aware of something that's working. So while WWE may have provided the proper vehicle for Punk's exposure, and Hardy the proper storyline to build that exposure, I'd have to disagree that either one made Punk. Made him more well known? Yes! Made him? Don't think so,imo. As far as the apathy towards Jeff's state in the video, I;ll have to disagree as well. He represents a company and he also has two previous charges and pending court cases/jail time. Is this really what TNA wants as exposure? Is this really wise On Jeff Hardy's part to be even showing these type of videos considering his history and pending future? I'd think it would be a big deal to him and TNA. Umm....Hardy MADE Punk. I'll say it again. Hardy MADE Punk. Please dont act like you knew who CM Punk was before he hit WWE. You forget I knew you before Punk ever came to WWE. You may have checked out a dvd or 2 since he came to WWE, but its not like you were following his career from the midwest to ROH and all around. All that being said, what Punk did in the indys means SQUAT to his position in WWE. When he got there, he lingered on ECW and jobbed to Morrison on countless nights. It wasnt till Morrison's steroid suspension, that Punk finally achieve gold. And at the time, I still think WWE did it less b/c Punk deserved it and more b/c they really had no one else to put it on at the time. So where was this mysterious push you mentioned? It was more than a year before Punk got the ECW title. And WWE always had the ECW title below even the US and IC, it hardly even got defended on ppv. Danielson won the IC Title within his first 6 months there and has gotten big wins on big stars, worked ppv matches, main evented Summer Slam, etc. Danielson got a push....Punk got pushed down. Dont forget that Punk in his first 6 months had 1 PPV match. Danielson has had 3. Their pushes look nothing alike. When you make statements that Punk is similar to what he was on the indies and Danielson is too.....just shows you didnt watch them. I mean, let me retract a bit. Punk.....a little. Punk as a babyface in WWE was similar to Punk as a babyface on the indys. When Punk formed the SES, he was again even more similar to what he was on the indys. However, Danielson is NOTHING like he was on the indys. Coming out to ridiculous music, being promoted as a vegan, doesnt own a tv, or being portrayed by Cole as a dork is NOTHING like Danielson on the indys. Who the would dare call Danielson a dork on the indys?! Danielson was a technical artist....best in the world, babyface or heel. I dont know if this was your intent, but it sounded like you were saying that WWE was listening to smarks and wanted indy talent. Punk, Danielson, Tyler Black.....ok sure. But they arent listening to the smarks. Nope, not in the least bit. WWE is still targeting kids. Plain and simple.....young kids. Just look at the seasons of NXT.....you get like 1 or 2 indy talents and the rest of them are former fitness models or gym rats that no poop about WWE. You make it sound like Jeff Hardy is the only wrestler to ever appear drunk on a youtube video. I do agree that its not professional, but lets face it....pro wrestling bends rules all the time. Please also keep in mind, that this stuff was shot in EARLY this year. I mean, real early. And again, he appears drunk and being drunk in a diner isnt against the law. Does TNA want this on youtube? Hell no. Does Jeff Hardy? HELL NO! These videos are only available to The Hardy Show subscribers or people who buy the dvds. Someone has taken copyrighted material and posted it on youtube. Thats like if you had a sex tape with your boyfriend ( ;D) and someone posted it on youtube. Should you be condemned for this? Its not illegal. You did nothing wrong. You didnt post it. You didnt want it on youtube. But someone else did it to you. Lastly, if you believe that ANYONE is over with a WWE audience based on what they did on the indys, you are fooling yourself. WWE doesnt give 2 poops. They used to. There was a time, thats where they were getting their talent from.....Edge, Christian, The Hardys, Helms, Shannon Moore, Joey Abs, Mercury, Christian York, Test, Joe E. Legend, Rhino, etc. Not anymore. And being over with the indy crowd is like being over with 100 people in a WWE crowd. You forget that most indy companies draw 50-100 people MAX. Others like ROH can get 1000. But these are no where NEAR WWE crowds and they arent filled with little kids. You want to say that Punk is better in the ring or on the mic. I agree. You want to say that Punk made a name for himself on the indy circuit. I agree. But CM Punk was a nobody in the WWE eyes and the eyes of most WWE fans till Jeff Hardy. And thats a fact. Your opinion matters less then what you think it does. And let me put you in the know. YOU don't know ME. You know who I am, but YOU don't know me. I'm not like one of your passing encounters with any number of wrestlers that, becasue I had a conversation with you, that now all of a sudden we are buddies. However much you wanna say Hardy made Punk, it's still your opinion whether you wanna believe that your opinion actually is fact or not. You shot at me with a bunch of knowledge, that yeah, sure, admittedly, I probably have less knowledge of, only to get back to my original point which is that punk was popular BEFORE he was in WWE. He and hardy had a great feud, but hardy did not make him. That's where you are missing the argument and trying to make an argument. I never said about the WWE, and neither did Jeff. Hardy said HE made CM punk. I was simply arguing that Punk was known before he came in. And did i suggest WWE is listening to smarks on everything? No, But I aknowledged that WWE is smart enough to know who's hot in the indies/ROH/ wherever to see their potential and bring them up. I don't need, nor did i need to follow Punk around to know the guy was popular. I read about it, heard about, etc. Same way with Danileson. For christs sake that's all Cole blabbed about. And again, you're creating an arguement for your own purposes. They are getting pushed similar to what they were in the indies..is daniel bryan not perceived as a technical wrestler now? Furthermore, Regardless of when they Got a push, they got a push. When Punk came in, he was an aweful worker imo, but that didnt stop them from trying to push him. Danielson, is better in the ring. But the MAIN reason these guys were picked up was becasue of their popularity in the indies! These guys have a following, of course WWE wants to get in on that money. Would it make sense for them to pull some random jobber guy from the indy circuit and try to push him? no. You say "Nope, not in the least bit" is WWE listening to smarks, then previously list Black, danielson, Punk? So are they listening to smarks or not? So yes, I;m aware who WWE mainly caters to, but you totally disregarded my point, again. See CM, your self indulgent opinions get in the way of understanding what's being said. I said Hardy did not make Punk. If he did, not a damn person woulda known about him before he came to WWE!!! DO you get that.? That's why I said...MAde him more popular? sure! But made him? No! Maybe you dont see the difference but there is one. As far as the drinking. He's a grown ass man. He can drink all he wants. But he also represents the company and the Champion of a company as well. My question is about the responsibility of Jeff hardy not to post stuff like that or have it posted. What he does on his own time is not for me to scrutinize, but when he let's himself an open book in such a demeaning manner, in light of his position, how are people to respond? Turn a blind eye? So basically CM you've argued my points based on your interpretation supported by your own arguements. Wrapped it up with some information and presented in a matter of fact manner to make it appear as fact. Nothing outta the norm for you is it? Maybe I'm the one that knows you?
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Post by Gazza on Nov 25, 2010 23:06:07 GMT -5
Hardy may have given Punk the rub, and provided an antithesis to Punk's character, but there's no way hardy made Punk. Punk was one of the most over indy wrestlers coming into WWE. There's a reason he got pushed, similar to Danielson's push now. WWE is tapping into a chunk of their wrestling audience that is becoming increasingly influential in the direction of pro wrestling. I think that's evidenced on how the WWE allows these guys to keep their basic character. Punk is similar ro what he was in the indies, as is Bryan. In the past, you rarely seen the indy guys come up and keep their same gimmick. Obviously, WWE is aware of something that's working. So while WWE may have provided the proper vehicle for Punk's exposure, and Hardy the proper storyline to build that exposure, I'd have to disagree that either one made Punk. Made him more well known? Yes! Made him? Don't think so,imo. As far as the apathy towards Jeff's state in the video, I;ll have to disagree as well. He represents a company and he also has two previous charges and pending court cases/jail time. Is this really what TNA wants as exposure? Is this really wise On Jeff Hardy's part to be even showing these type of videos considering his history and pending future? I'd think it would be a big deal to him and TNA. Umm....Hardy MADE Punk. I'll say it again. Hardy MADE Punk. Please dont act like you knew who CM Punk was before he hit WWE. You forget I knew you before Punk ever came to WWE. You may have checked out a dvd or 2 since he came to WWE, but its not like you were following his career from the midwest to ROH and all around. All that being said, what Punk did in the indys means SQUAT to his position in WWE. When he got there, he lingered on ECW and jobbed to Morrison on countless nights. It wasnt till Morrison's steroid suspension, that Punk finally achieve gold. And at the time, I still think WWE did it less b/c Punk deserved it and more b/c they really had no one else to put it on at the time. So where was this mysterious push you mentioned? It was more than a year before Punk got the ECW title. And WWE always had the ECW title below even the US and IC, it hardly even got defended on ppv. Danielson won the IC Title within his first 6 months there and has gotten big wins on big stars, worked ppv matches, main evented Summer Slam, etc. Danielson got a push....Punk got pushed down. Dont forget that Punk in his first 6 months had 1 PPV match. Danielson has had 3. Their pushes look nothing alike. When you make statements that Punk is similar to what he was on the indies and Danielson is too.....just shows you didnt watch them. I mean, let me retract a bit. Punk.....a little. Punk as a babyface in WWE was similar to Punk as a babyface on the indys. When Punk formed the SES, he was again even more similar to what he was on the indys. However, Danielson is NOTHING like he was on the indys. Coming out to ridiculous music, being promoted as a vegan, doesnt own a tv, or being portrayed by Cole as a dork is NOTHING like Danielson on the indys. Who the would dare call Danielson a dork on the indys?! Danielson was a technical artist....best in the world, babyface or heel. I dont know if this was your intent, but it sounded like you were saying that WWE was listening to smarks and wanted indy talent. Punk, Danielson, Tyler Black.....ok sure. But they arent listening to the smarks. Nope, not in the least bit. WWE is still targeting kids. Plain and simple.....young kids. Just look at the seasons of NXT.....you get like 1 or 2 indy talents and the rest of them are former fitness models or gym rats that no poop about WWE. You make it sound like Jeff Hardy is the only wrestler to ever appear drunk on a youtube video. I do agree that its not professional, but lets face it....pro wrestling bends rules all the time. Please also keep in mind, that this stuff was shot in EARLY this year. I mean, real early. And again, he appears drunk and being drunk in a diner isnt against the law. Does TNA want this on youtube? Hell no. Does Jeff Hardy? HELL NO! These videos are only available to The Hardy Show subscribers or people who buy the dvds. Someone has taken copyrighted material and posted it on youtube. Thats like if you had a sex tape with your boyfriend ( ;D) and someone posted it on youtube. Should you be condemned for this? Its not illegal. You did nothing wrong. You didnt post it. You didnt want it on youtube. But someone else did it to you. Lastly, if you believe that ANYONE is over with a WWE audience based on what they did on the indys, you are fooling yourself. WWE doesnt give 2 poops. They used to. There was a time, thats where they were getting their talent from.....Edge, Christian, The Hardys, Helms, Shannon Moore, Joey Abs, Mercury, Christian York, Test, Joe E. Legend, Rhino, etc. Not anymore. And being over with the indy crowd is like being over with 100 people in a WWE crowd. You forget that most indy companies draw 50-100 people MAX. Others like ROH can get 1000. But these are no where NEAR WWE crowds and they arent filled with little kids. You want to say that Punk is better in the ring or on the mic. I agree. You want to say that Punk made a name for himself on the indy circuit. I agree. But CM Punk was a nobody in the WWE eyes and the eyes of most WWE fans till Jeff Hardy. And thats a fact. A gay joke? Really? That's all you could come up with?
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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on Nov 26, 2010 0:55:49 GMT -5
Umm....Hardy MADE Punk. I'll say it again. Hardy MADE Punk. Please dont act like you knew who CM Punk was before he hit WWE. You forget I knew you before Punk ever came to WWE. You may have checked out a dvd or 2 since he came to WWE, but its not like you were following his career from the midwest to ROH and all around. All that being said, what Punk did in the indys means SQUAT to his position in WWE. When he got there, he lingered on ECW and jobbed to Morrison on countless nights. It wasnt till Morrison's steroid suspension, that Punk finally achieve gold. And at the time, I still think WWE did it less b/c Punk deserved it and more b/c they really had no one else to put it on at the time. So where was this mysterious push you mentioned? It was more than a year before Punk got the ECW title. And WWE always had the ECW title below even the US and IC, it hardly even got defended on ppv. Danielson won the IC Title within his first 6 months there and has gotten big wins on big stars, worked ppv matches, main evented Summer Slam, etc. Danielson got a push....Punk got pushed down. Dont forget that Punk in his first 6 months had 1 PPV match. Danielson has had 3. Their pushes look nothing alike. When you make statements that Punk is similar to what he was on the indies and Danielson is too.....just shows you didnt watch them. I mean, let me retract a bit. Punk.....a little. Punk as a babyface in WWE was similar to Punk as a babyface on the indys. When Punk formed the SES, he was again even more similar to what he was on the indys. However, Danielson is NOTHING like he was on the indys. Coming out to ridiculous music, being promoted as a vegan, doesnt own a tv, or being portrayed by Cole as a dork is NOTHING like Danielson on the indys. Who the would dare call Danielson a dork on the indys?! Danielson was a technical artist....best in the world, babyface or heel. I dont know if this was your intent, but it sounded like you were saying that WWE was listening to smarks and wanted indy talent. Punk, Danielson, Tyler Black.....ok sure. But they arent listening to the smarks. Nope, not in the least bit. WWE is still targeting kids. Plain and simple.....young kids. Just look at the seasons of NXT.....you get like 1 or 2 indy talents and the rest of them are former fitness models or gym rats that no poop about WWE. You make it sound like Jeff Hardy is the only wrestler to ever appear drunk on a youtube video. I do agree that its not professional, but lets face it....pro wrestling bends rules all the time. Please also keep in mind, that this stuff was shot in EARLY this year. I mean, real early. And again, he appears drunk and being drunk in a diner isnt against the law. Does TNA want this on youtube? Hell no. Does Jeff Hardy? HELL NO! These videos are only available to The Hardy Show subscribers or people who buy the dvds. Someone has taken copyrighted material and posted it on youtube. Thats like if you had a sex tape with your boyfriend ( ;D) and someone posted it on youtube. Should you be condemned for this? Its not illegal. You did nothing wrong. You didnt post it. You didnt want it on youtube. But someone else did it to you. Lastly, if you believe that ANYONE is over with a WWE audience based on what they did on the indys, you are fooling yourself. WWE doesnt give 2 poops. They used to. There was a time, thats where they were getting their talent from.....Edge, Christian, The Hardys, Helms, Shannon Moore, Joey Abs, Mercury, Christian York, Test, Joe E. Legend, Rhino, etc. Not anymore. And being over with the indy crowd is like being over with 100 people in a WWE crowd. You forget that most indy companies draw 50-100 people MAX. Others like ROH can get 1000. But these are no where NEAR WWE crowds and they arent filled with little kids. You want to say that Punk is better in the ring or on the mic. I agree. You want to say that Punk made a name for himself on the indy circuit. I agree. But CM Punk was a nobody in the WWE eyes and the eyes of most WWE fans till Jeff Hardy. And thats a fact. Your opinion matters less then what you think it does. And let me put you in the know. YOU don't know ME. You know who I am, but YOU don't know me. I'm not like one of your passing encounters with any number of wrestlers that, becasue I had a conversation with you, that now all of a sudden we are buddies. However much you wanna say Hardy made Punk, it's still your opinion whether you wanna believe that your opinion actually is fact or not. You shot at me with a bunch of knowledge, that yeah, sure, admittedly, I probably have less knowledge of, only to get back to my original point which is that punk was popular BEFORE he was in WWE. He and hardy had a great feud, but hardy did not make him. That's where you are missing the argument and trying to make an argument. I never said about the WWE, and neither did Jeff. Hardy said HE made CM punk. I was simply arguing that Punk was known before he came in. And did i suggest WWE is listening to smarks on everything? No, But I aknowledged that WWE is smart enough to know who's hot in the indies/ROH/ wherever to see their potential and bring them up. I don't need, nor did i need to follow Punk around to know the guy was popular. I read about it, heard about, etc. Same way with Danileson. For christs sake that's all Cole blabbed about. And again, you're creating an arguement for your own purposes. They are getting pushed similar to what they were in the indies..is daniel bryan not perceived as a technical wrestler now? Furthermore, Regardless of when they Got a push, they got a push. When Punk came in, he was an aweful worker imo, but that didnt stop them from trying to push him. Danielson, is better in the ring. But the MAIN reason these guys were picked up was becasue of their popularity in the indies! These guys have a following, of course WWE wants to get in on that money. Would it make sense for them to pull some random jobber guy from the indy circuit and try to push him? no. You say "Nope, not in the least bit" is WWE listening to smarks, then previously list Black, danielson, Punk? So are they listening to smarks or not? So yes, I;m aware who WWE mainly caters to, but you totally disregarded my point, again. See CM, your self indulgent opinions get in the way of understanding what's being said. I said Hardy did not make Punk. If he did, not a damn person woulda known about him before he came to WWE!!! DO you get that.? That's why I said...MAde him more popular? sure! But made him? No! Maybe you dont see the difference but there is one. As far as the drinking. He's a grown ass man. He can drink all he wants. But he also represents the company and the Champion of a company as well. My question is about the responsibility of Jeff hardy not to post stuff like that or have it posted. What he does on his own time is not for me to scrutinize, but when he let's himself an open book in such a demeaning manner, in light of his position, how are people to respond? Turn a blind eye? So basically CM you've argued my points based on your interpretation supported by your own arguements. Wrapped it up with some information and presented in a matter of fact manner to make it appear as fact. Nothing outta the norm for you is it? Maybe I'm the one that knows you? Dude, I never said I knew you intimately. I said I knew you. Just because I pretend not to recognize you when you come up to me to say hi....doesnt mean otherwise. Hardy made Punk....that is a ing fact. Like the Jets beat the Bungles tonight.....fact. The Jets won the match. Hardy's feud with Punk is what put him on the map. Could Punk have risen without Hardy? I'm sure he could have. But thats not what happened. WTF does Punk being popular with the internet and indy fans have to do with his position in WWE or what made him the biggest heel in pro wrestling at the time? NOTHING. His indy popularity contributed to him being signed by WWE, in a small way. But once he got there, the indy fans had almost NOTHING to do with him becoming their biggest heel. Being known by a few thousand folks around the US does not make you a world reknown superstar. Yes, I know Punk had a strong following in Germany and Japan, but its still not on the same level. Hardy has all that AND MORE before his feud with Punk. If Punk cashed in his title against Edge or even another babyface.....do you think that Punk would have gotten that big at that time? HELL NO! Jeff Hardy was THE most over star they had at the time. You can hate on it and on him all you want.....but once again, FACT. Its a fact because it can be proven. Please show me where CM Punk was one of the top main eventers before Hardy? His 1 ppv match against Batista that he didnt even win cleanly? PLEASE. Thats why his reign as champion lasted all of a cup of tea and then he went back to the mid card. Then you dismiss everything I typed up as irrelevant concerning you ridiculous statement about Danielson being the same gimmick he is on the indys. You wrote it. Dont duck it. Reading about one's popularity on the freaking internet dirt sheets or message board is lame and bias. If you werent going to live shows or at least watching the dvds, then you are presenting second and third hand knowledge. Popularity isnt what a message board tells you. If that was true, based on WFigs Zach Ryder and Justin King are the 2 most over stars in wrestling. C'mon! You're smarter than that. STOP THE ING PRESSESS!!!! Did you just say Punk was awful in the ring when he came into WWE?! You lost ALL credibility with that statement alone. Miz is someone who is awful in the ring. You can say you didnt like his look. You can say you didnt like his style or gimmick or tats or whatever. But this is like saying that Tom Brady is an awful QB in the NFL. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but you are being delusional and/or bias when statements like that are made. The indy guys have a following so WWE wants to get in on that money? Do you have any idea what an indy worker makes? Do you have any idea what a top level, world traveled indy worker like Punk or Danielson was making? THERE IS NO ING MONEY IN INDY WRESTLING! Yes, guys like Punk, Danielson and a few, very few select others can say they can be a full time wrestler. They dont need to work another job in order to survive and pay bills. But 95% of them HAVE TO. More than half the time, wrestlers are having to put money out of their pockets to take a booking. Its statments like these make you sound so ignorant. I havent disregarded your point. Its always possible, but I dont that I misunderstood your argument. Your point, for how I read it, is that Hardy did not MAKE Punk into the top heel at that time. Anyone else read anything differently? You are arguing semantics. Based on your idea....the only people who made Punk are momma and poppa Punk. And clearly, thats not what you were talking about. Hogan was popular in AWA. He came to WWE and was a mega star. Ask Hogan, if you ever get a chance, who do you think made him? Its probably on the net somewhere, as he has said it a billion times......Andre made Hogan. The push of Vince only went so far. It wasnt till Andre put Hogan over that Hogan went from main eventer to world reknown superstar. Same for CM Punk. Punk had a following. He had fans. He got signed with WWE. He had a run as World Champion. But it wasnt till the feud with Hardy that Punk take that next step to be the person all of us indy smarks knew from day one and now the world knows. I still dont get the point you are getting at with Hardy and him drinking. This is THS. Its an inside look at Jeff, Matt, Shannon, Helms, Kimo, Shatter, Curly, Beth, little Lucas, etc. It does great business for the Hardys and has been running for 10 years! Hardy didnt post it, in fact its a violation of Youtubes policy as its copyrighted material posted not by the person who owns that copyright. crap gets leaked. So what? Its not like its a video of him sitting over a hot stove cooking crystal meth. Hell, he doesnt even have any alcohol or consuming it at the time. We are drawing that conclusion....a safe one, but one nonetheless. I havent argued your points based off of....blah...blah..blah. I presented FACTS to you. I presented my opinion in some forms to you. I have shot down several of your ignorant statements concerning Danielson using the same gimmick as the indys, indy wrestlers making money that WWE wants to tap into, and the internet being able to tell you who is truly popular and who is truly not, for example.
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Post by Mike Bockwinkel on Nov 26, 2010 2:55:40 GMT -5
We now have a successor for JSYN, apparently...
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Post by deskjet on Nov 26, 2010 9:09:14 GMT -5
Cm, I'm done discussing this with you because it's laiden with your own need to talk and get your point across. The more it's discussed, the more your gonna come up with a laundry list of why you are right even though you have just as much credibility as me which Is very little. You don't know anymore about the why's and the how's of the business anymore than anyone else that's not actually working in the business, that's a fact. You following guys around on twitter, working at an indy show as a commentator on matches, being part of groups, going to signings, etc, qualifies you as only one thing...a fan, or to a lesser extent, a roadie. Your a self promoter, as evidence by your response that borders on a novel. And this isn't hate towards you, it's calling you who you are, you've admitted that yourself. So why continue in a discussion when you still fail to see the points of the argument. The simple points of argument were that #1 hardy did not make punk. I was not arguing punk gettin a push because of hardy's storyline. I was arguing that punk was already someone before he came into wwe, similar to how Daniel was popular before he came in. What happened is your man crush on jeff hardy got in the way of you seeing what I was saying and propelled you into another soapboxed tirade to once again make yourself come across like you know what you're talking about. So let's emphasize and Cap words, and repeat over and over again how somethings a fact. Are you trying to convince others or yourself that you actually have a clue? I would have no problem with you disagreeing with what I said if you actually understood what I said instead of using it as a platform to promote your "knowledge". If you can admit that CMPUNK had a following and was popular before he got to WWE. Then you and I agree on the same arguement. And that was ALL my arguement was for. Hell I gave crdeit to WWE and Jeff for making Punk more well known..but being made more well known and being made are two different things. He was somebody before he came into the WWE, that makes him made. He was made more popular becasue of his involvement in the WWE. That's my point, and always has been. Again if you weren't so quick to see your words in print, you mighta picked up on that. As far as danielson goes, I may have been incorrect in my analysis as to how WWE is using him compared to who he was, but he is still being used a sa technical wrestler, so to some degree he's being promoted in a similar fashion. His move set, indy work, etc is constantly praised and talked about during his matches. But how would you know if you haven't been watching Raw And again, you missed my point on the drinking. I dont give a shyt if he does it or not. My point was, it looks bad for him and TNA, which is something you agreed with me on. If he or someone else put it up, it still doesnt look good and someone should be notified to take it down. you do know Youtube can be notified of this and have it down within minutes right? It's been up for 3 days. You jumped around or skewed my points, to make points for yourself. You tried o expose what I dont know with the light of what you think you know for the purposes of getting yourself noticed, again, ll fueled by your love for Jeff Hardy. Thanks, but i don't need you to make me, I'm already made Now if you don't mind, I've got some turkey to finish off. And no that's not a shot at you
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Post by Gazza on Nov 26, 2010 9:20:06 GMT -5
Cm, I'm done discussing this with you because it's laiden with your own need to talk and get your point across. The more it's discussed, the mire your gonna come up with a laundry list of why you are right even though you have just as much credibility as me which Is very little. You don't know anymore about the why's and the how's of the business anymore than anyone else that's not actually working in wwe/tna. Your a self promoter, as evidence by your response that borders on a novel. The simple points of argument were that #1 hardy did not make punk. I was nit arguing punk gettin a push because of hardy's storyline. I was arguing that punk was already someone before he came into wwe, similar to how Daniel was popular now....ediy I don't know why you bothered discussing with him anyway, he never will admit he's wrong.
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Deleted
Joined on: May 21, 2024 6:49:34 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2010 11:35:07 GMT -5
Jeff Hardy only made CM Punk in the sense that he was the guy Punk had his first big, world title level feud with. But on any other level, they were either equals or Punk was clearly the more capable hand, as Punk's charisma and ability to cut promos was what made that storyline. I like Jeff, but I remember watching a promo where they were going at each other before Night of Champions, and just being astonished that Jeff couldn't even cut a decent promo when they were talking about his real life outside the ring. If you want proof, replace Punk with someone else, and that feud would not be remembered as the great story it was. I'm not knocking Jeff, because he and Punk in the ring were awesome, but that storyline or any other would crash and burn if they were dependent on Jeff for the promos and storytelling aspects.
Jeff only made CM Punk in the same sense that Bret Hart made Austin. The more established guy is used to raise the newer guy up on the card, but you will never convince me that CM Punk in this situation or Austin in that one wouldn't have become a star regardless based on their own ability.
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Post by sean™ on Nov 26, 2010 11:43:38 GMT -5
Jeff Hardy is not worth the amount of discussion in this thread. Jeff may have been the Superman to Punk's Lex Luthor, but Hardy didn't do a damn thing in that feud beyond being the "name" that Punk was fighting, and playing the victim to Punk.
Who sold the whole feud with his promos? Punk. Who was the real interest in the feud, going from someone who respected Jeff, to slowly turning and going after Hardy while also turning on the fans, into full blown heel? Punk. Hell, even in their TLC match at SS, Punk took the majority of the bumps. Sure, Jeff had the Swanton from the ladder, but he landed directly on Punk. Punk also got thrown to the outside through a table, and took most of the ladder bumps. I believe all Hardy did was take a few chair shots, or land on chairs.
Case in point, while there is no evil without good, there would have been no great heel Punk without a victim named Jeff Hardy. However, in no way did Jeff actually do anything in that feud to help Punk's rise outside of be there, and be named Jeff Hardy.
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motleyspoisongun
Main Eventer
14 USA Refs & 1 UK Ref
Joined on: Oct 4, 2006 13:26:28 GMT -5
Posts: 2,066
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Post by motleyspoisongun on Nov 26, 2010 11:43:56 GMT -5
this is hilarious, he's so wasted
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E N I G M A
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jul 4, 2010 5:21:31 GMT -5
Posts: 2,632
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Post by E N I G M A on Nov 26, 2010 14:18:35 GMT -5
You can see on his haircolour that this is not an actual Vid, as said before, it is on the Hardy Show
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Post by Kliquid on Nov 26, 2010 16:22:39 GMT -5
Umm....Hardy MADE Punk. I'll say it again. Hardy MADE Punk. Please dont act like you knew who CM Punk was before he hit WWE. You forget I knew you before Punk ever came to WWE. You may have checked out a dvd or 2 since he came to WWE, but its not like you were following his career from the midwest to ROH and all around. I can honestly say that I've been watching CM Punk since he first started his career. I'm talking back in the SPCW/SDW days. But I mean, I think I agree with you that Jeff Hardy definitely put CM Punk on the map as far as the national fanbase goes. Punk has always been an excellent worker. I haven't talked to him in probably 10 years, but he was an extremely nice guy back when I first met him. He and Nick Mondo were both really cool to talk to. A couple of my friends and I worked as slaves ring crew for SDW, so it was really cool to us when the wrestlers would take legitimate interest in OUR lives. Maybe Punk has changed since those days, but I find it hard to believe that he's as "Hollywood" as the Hardy's seem to make him out to be. On another note, Jeff Hardy needs to get off the booze/drugs. Maybe he's completely off the drugs right now, but certainly drinking doesn't help with keeping the "demons" of drug abuse away. I feel bad for wrestlers when I see them making asses of themselves like this. I just have a feeling that at some point we're going to see news that Jeff Hardy had a "heart attack" (that's what it's always called when people die from drugs). I don't want to see that.
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Post by oldsckulpiledriver on Nov 26, 2010 17:13:22 GMT -5
Damn, I agree with parts of what Showstopper has to say. Number 2? I RATE A LOT OF INDY PROGRAMS over TNA. TNA IS NOTHING BUT A GLORIFIED INDY FED. THEIR WOMENS CHAMP WAS WORKING AT THE SUNGLASS HUT IN THE MALL FOR MIN. WAGE FOR CRYING OUT LOUD.
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Kick Your Face
Main Eventer
Real Join Date: Sep 2003
Joined on: Nov 25, 2007 17:32:21 GMT -5
Posts: 3,141
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Post by Kick Your Face on Nov 26, 2010 17:24:29 GMT -5
Yes, Jeff Hardy "made" CM Punk because he is a druggy. They put Jeff into a feud with Punk because he was an easy target. That's really something to brag about, Jeff.
Also, Punk had already been World Champion before Jeff even won the title.
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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on Nov 26, 2010 18:06:25 GMT -5
We now have a successor for JSYN, apparently... 100% agreed. Deskjet isnt getting it. He just rants with statements that are 100% untrue and then casts me as web spinner. Deskjet, the reason I have a laundry list is cuz you are flat out wrong. I think you arguing with me just to argue. Fact is, I agreed with you that CM Punk had a name before coming to WWE. Fact is, I agreed with you about how talented Punk is. Fact is, Jeff Hardy MADE CM Punk into the ultra heel he became and is. Thats where we are not agreeing. Not sure how you can argue it. Still havent heard 1 legit reason come from you. The best you can come up with is Punk was made on the indys and WWE wanted to tap into all the money Punk was making. Calling me bias towards Jeff is ridiculous. You've crossed from making untrue and ignorant statements to flat out ridiculous ones. You are at an absolute loss and now you have to REALLY reach for something. I'm a mark for Jeff. Damn right. I'm a mark for Punk. But neither keeps me from calling a spade a spade. You refuse to accept that it was the feud with Jeff Hardy that put CM Punk on the national main stream map. For some reason, you think working indys puts you in the main stream. Your ignorance clouds your judgment. I'm standing on the soapbox going off on a tirade b/c you are presenting ignorant and untrue statements about indy workers, indy wrestling, etc. as reality. When in reality, they couldnt be further from the truth. CM Punk having a strong indy following was NEVER the point. This argument broke out over whether or not Jeff Hardy made CM Punk. Having a following doesnt make someone a national main stream star. Whoopie doo. You obviously do not understand the term "made". Before coming on here and trying to act all knowledgeable, you should really learn what these terms mean. So what if Danielson is being used as a technical wrestler? What did you think they would use him as......a brawler? How is this relevant? You said gimmick, not style. And how do you know whether or not I watch Raw? Again, before making these ridiculous statements....you should try and find some facts to support it. Yes, youtube can remove it....as you said....someone has to notify them of it. Do you realize how many Jeff Hardy videos are on youtube? Do you think Jeff even knows? Can it come down in minutes? Sure can. Would it if you or I reported it? HELL NO! It would take them 3 days to take the stupid thing down. And its a pain in the ass to report someone on youtube. I've done it. I didnt jump around or skew your points. You made an absolute FOOL of yourself by trying to act like you knew something and I called you out on the carpet and outed you. Happens all the time. , its happened to me. But instead of just admitting, it you have tried to dance around it....ignore it and hope it goes away, all the while trying to pick a fight with me that you have clearly lost. You feel free to believe everything I have said is fueled by the inner Jeff Hardy mark. Go for it. Its your opinion. I am telling you are wrong and you can feel free to believe me or not to believe me. Jeff only made CM Punk in the same sense that Bret Hart made Austin. The more established guy is used to raise the newer guy up on the card, but you will never convince me that CM Punk in this situation or Austin in that one wouldn't have become a star regardless based on their own ability. And I said just that.....I feel like Punk would have become the top heel, regardless if Jeff MADE him or not. And perhaps if that feud never took place, it could have been Randy Orton that made Punk or Shawn Michaels....or whoever. Or maybe, Punk gets there without a stellar feud like he had with Hardy. But the fact is....thats not what went down. The feud that put Punk on the map was the feud with Hardy and the reason was based off of the exact thing several people have already stated.....the ultra face vs. the ultra heel. They countered one another so perfectly and Hardy was SO OVER at that time. Umm....Hardy MADE Punk. I'll say it again. Hardy MADE Punk. Please dont act like you knew who CM Punk was before he hit WWE. You forget I knew you before Punk ever came to WWE. You may have checked out a dvd or 2 since he came to WWE, but its not like you were following his career from the midwest to ROH and all around. I can honestly say that I've been watching CM Punk since he first started his career. I'm talking back in the SPCW/SDW days. But I mean, I think I agree with you that Jeff Hardy definitely put CM Punk on the map as far as the national fanbase goes. Punk has always been an excellent worker. I haven't talked to him in probably 10 years, but he was an extremely nice guy back when I first met him. He and Nick Mondo were both really cool to talk to. A couple of my friends and I worked as slaves ring crew for SDW, so it was really cool to us when the wrestlers would take legitimate interest in OUR lives. Maybe Punk has changed since those days, but I find it hard to believe that he's as "Hollywood" as the Hardy's seem to make him out to be. On another note, Jeff Hardy needs to get off the booze/drugs. Maybe he's completely off the drugs right now, but certainly drinking doesn't help with keeping the "demons" of drug abuse away. I feel bad for wrestlers when I see them making asses of themselves like this. I just have a feeling that at some point we're going to see news that Jeff Hardy had a "heart attack" (that's what it's always called when people die from drugs). I don't want to see that. You've mentioned this before and perhaps for you, he might be totally cool. And yes, I do doubt that Punk wouldnt shake Hardy's hand. Its been a long standing tradition in locker rooms to do the hand shake and that the stars dont come to you, you goto them. But who really knows, cept those who were there? Punk has always had a long standing respect for wrestling history. You would think he wouldnt show little respect. I have no idea about Jeff's use or non use of drugs. I hope he is clean, considering he just had a baby girl.....but I dont know. The only thing I do know, is he wasnt a hardcore druggie that was doing crap daily or weekly or of any sort of length of time. It was all recreational, after long over seas tours, or whatever. Not condoning it one bit. Want to make that perfectly clear. Just stating the fact. As far as the drinking, not my scene.....but I know tons of people that go and get wasted on Friday and Saturday night and are far worse than what Hardy was in the video. The only difference is they arent Jeff Hardy, TNA Champion. Yes, Jeff Hardy "made" CM Punk because he is a druggy. They put Jeff into a feud with Punk because he was an easy target. That's really something to brag about, Jeff. Also, Punk had already been World Champion before Jeff even won the title. Ok, I agree with you. Jeff was an easy target for Punk's new heel character. HOWEVER, that wasnt the original intention. It ended up the result b/c of how hot the crowd was getting towards Punk, even when he was working as a face after cashing in. Yes, Punk was World Champion. This was discussed before. But lets call a spade a spade.....he had 1 world title ppv match, that he didnt win cleanly and then promptly lost the belt and fluttered in mid cards as a tag team with Kofi.
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Post by oursaviourpunk on Nov 26, 2010 18:12:20 GMT -5
Wow, look at them! Bashing CM Punk and claiming he made him..
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Post by Kliquid on Nov 26, 2010 18:15:59 GMT -5
You've mentioned this before and perhaps for you, he might be totally cool. And yes, I do doubt that Punk wouldnt shake Hardy's hand. Its been a long standing tradition in locker rooms to do the hand shake and that the stars dont come to you, you goto them. But who really knows, cept those who were there? Punk has always had a long standing respect for wrestling history. You would think he wouldnt show little respect. Yeah I wish I had some insight on his character now, but he seemed so down to earth before. I mean, this was well before he got famous, but still, usually people that are bungholes just become BIGGER bungholes when they're famous. I have no idea about Jeff's use or non use of drugs. I hope he is clean, considering he just had a baby girl.....but I dont know. The only thing I do know, is he wasnt a hardcore druggie that was doing poop daily or weekly or of any sort of length of time. It was all recreational, after long over seas tours, or whatever. Not condoning it one bit. Want to make that perfectly clear. Just stating the fact. As far as the drinking, not my scene.....but I know tons of people that go and get wasted on Friday and Saturday night and are far worse than what Hardy was in the video. The only difference is they arent Jeff Hardy, TNA Champion. Yeah I don't know his drug use history, either, only that it wasn't "just weed" like many other wrestlers. And I'm not trying to say he needs to get off of the drugs to avoid looking like this on video. I mean it more for his future life and, like you said, the life of his daughter. My guess is that if he's still drinking, he's still occasionally doing some drugs. Again, this is complete speculation and I hope I'm wrong, but that's usually the case. I have a few friends who had drug problems and needed to quit both drugs AND alcohol to be able to stop doing both of them together.
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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on Nov 26, 2010 18:22:54 GMT -5
You've mentioned this before and perhaps for you, he might be totally cool. And yes, I do doubt that Punk wouldnt shake Hardy's hand. Its been a long standing tradition in locker rooms to do the hand shake and that the stars dont come to you, you goto them. But who really knows, cept those who were there? Punk has always had a long standing respect for wrestling history. You would think he wouldnt show little respect. Yeah I wish I had some insight on his character now, but he seemed so down to earth before. I mean, this was well before he got famous, but still, usually people that are bungholes just become BIGGER bungholes when they're famous. I have no idea about Jeff's use or non use of drugs. I hope he is clean, considering he just had a baby girl.....but I dont know. The only thing I do know, is he wasnt a hardcore druggie that was doing poop daily or weekly or of any sort of length of time. It was all recreational, after long over seas tours, or whatever. Not condoning it one bit. Want to make that perfectly clear. Just stating the fact. As far as the drinking, not my scene.....but I know tons of people that go and get wasted on Friday and Saturday night and are far worse than what Hardy was in the video. The only difference is they arent Jeff Hardy, TNA Champion. Yeah I don't know his drug use history, either, only that it wasn't "just weed" like many other wrestlers. And I'm not trying to say he needs to get off of the drugs to avoid looking like this on video. I mean it more for his future life and, like you said, the life of his daughter. My guess is that if he's still drinking, he's still occasionally doing some drugs. Again, this is complete speculation and I hope I'm wrong, but that's usually the case. I have a few friends who had drug problems and needed to quit both drugs AND alcohol to be able to stop doing both of them together. I know people who were really down to earth that got famous and forgot about people. I'm not even talking about superstar famous.....just a little something. But I have no clue. I have heard that Punk is a great friend. So as much as the Hardys shoot him down, there are just as many if not more that will say otherwise. Yeah....Jeff wasnt doing weed. Weed only gets you a fine in WWE, no suspension. And no, I really have NO IDEA what drug was Jeff's or currently is his choice. The only thing he has ever said about it is that it wasnt crystal meth or crack. I too hope he is off of them, but I doubt it. When I have heard him talk about it.....he has a VERY different view on it.
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Post by RSCTom on Nov 26, 2010 18:47:01 GMT -5
this is hilarious, he's so wasted Also how I feel. I haven't been this entertained by the two of them in about 10 years. Also, the people saying that TNA needs to wrangle him and keep him from doing videos like this can't really argue that point too far. The Hardy Show is 9 seasons in, and it's been running since both of them were in WWE with ridiculous representations of both throughout. No one at this point is going to stop them from making these goofy videos. It's not really the company's fault...
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