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Post by "The Opportunist" Eric Flair on Nov 29, 2010 0:44:04 GMT -5
I'm a fan of the Hardys, and of alcohol as well . . . . but mixing the two obviously isn't good. If they wanna get technical about "making someone", then I guess we could all say we as fans "made" The Hardys. See, and I don't have to be plastered to say it.
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Post by "The Visionary" Eldniw on Nov 29, 2010 2:06:26 GMT -5
Agreed to an extent. Hardy had some great matches with people, and yes, those people benefited from those matches by being remembered for those matches. Like all the matches that Edge and Christian had against the Hardyz. The 2 teams were put on the map by virtue of the matches against each other. I'll say this. Wrestlers may be put on the map by others, but not one wrestler MADE another. And if thats your opinion....I am asking.....what put CM Punk to the #1 heel? I am asking someone to explain how Punk got there. Please keep in mind that Punk was not scheduled to be a heel when he cashed in his MITB against Hardy. Also keep in mind, that I think we all already agree that if Jeff Hardy was never there that Punk would still have gotten there eventually anyway. WWE went with the reaction that Punk was getting. See Orton, Randy. It was never planned for him to turn face and split from Legacy. But - much like the Punk scenario - it would have been dumb of WWE to ignore the crowd reaction. It happens that it was in a program with Jeff Hardy. It was not Jeff Hardy himself who made Punk the top heel. The crowd did.
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TheAntiCena
Mid-Carder
I can't hear you over how AWESOME I AM
Joined on: May 22, 2009 16:57:29 GMT -5
Posts: 207
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Post by TheAntiCena on Nov 29, 2010 3:11:49 GMT -5
wow i agree that punk does seem stuck up about the whole straight edge thing. also i dont think punk take any sleeping pills if he did he wouldnt have such huge bags under his eyes LOL and i dont think he is drunk he looks like he sniffed a lil white powder, look how many times Jeff touches his nose
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Post by jfinnomore on Nov 29, 2010 3:17:02 GMT -5
So what if he's drunk? When did it become illegal for a man to drink beer? drunk in public is indeed a crime. . .
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Post by k5 on Nov 29, 2010 12:20:22 GMT -5
wow i agree that punk does seem stuck up about the whole straight edge thing. also i dont think punk take any sleeping pills if he did he wouldnt have such huge bags under his eyes LOL and i dont think he is drunk he looks like he sniffed a lil white powder, look how many times Jeff touches his nose cocaine doesn't make you act like you could pass out any second.
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Post by deskjet on Nov 29, 2010 13:01:12 GMT -5
Agreed to an extent. Hardy had some great matches with people, and yes, those people benefited from those matches by being remembered for those matches. Like all the matches that Edge and Christian had against the Hardyz. The 2 teams were put on the map by virtue of the matches against each other. I'll say this. Wrestlers may be put on the map by others, but not one wrestler MADE another. And if thats your opinion....I am asking.....what put CM Punk to the #1 heel? I am asking someone to explain how Punk got there. Please keep in mind that Punk was not scheduled to be a heel when he cashed in his MITB against Hardy. Also keep in mind, that I think we all already agree that if Jeff Hardy was never there that Punk would still have gotten there eventually anyway. Like you've been doing throughout this whole thread, you are continuing to equate Punk's heel rise in WWE to him being MADE. Jeff Hardy had nothing to do with who Punk was, how popular he was, how MADE he was before he came to WWE. IF Punk was some nobody then you might have a point...he was not, and that's what you're not seeing for whatever reason and was the whole point of our argument. You do know that there are guys in other promotions, that arent known amongst fans but, that are actually "made" or well known if you will? They don't need the WWE or Jeff Hardy to do that. Yes, the WWE, and a proper storyline certainly helps people get more popular or over..ie...see any number of WWE superstars, but that does not mean that these two factors are a prerequisite to being MADE. Perhaps you misunderstand the definition or at least my interpretation of ...MADE..It is someone that is popular/well known, recognizable in any forum they are associated with. Reggie bush is a made man, not becasue he won a super bowl or is with the saints...he's a made man becasue he had a lot of popularity coming into the game, the success in the NFL only added to what he already was. Contrastlty, Ben Rothlisberger was MADE because of something..winning with the steelers and winning Super Bowls. Prior to this, people barely knew who he was. What you're suggesting is that CM punk is Rothliesberger, when he's Reggie Bush.
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Post by k5 on Nov 29, 2010 13:13:13 GMT -5
in all honesty, cm punk's indie buzz would've blown over years ago and they would've found a new flavor of the month.
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That 80s Guy
Main Eventer
Gnarly!
Joined on: Nov 6, 2010 14:29:43 GMT -5
Posts: 1,546
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Post by That 80s Guy on Nov 29, 2010 19:08:56 GMT -5
-- That video was sad. Had they been sober and went about the topic more logically, my respect would've have gone down as much as it has, knowing they were pretty tanked in that video.
That's your World Champ, TNA.
*lowers head in shame*
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Post by Eat Defeat. on Nov 30, 2010 6:20:41 GMT -5
According to Matt, the video is from last December.
In my OPINION! I feel that Jeff is the one who carried the matches with Punk in 2009.
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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on Nov 30, 2010 22:51:50 GMT -5
And if thats your opinion....I am asking.....what put CM Punk to the #1 heel? I am asking someone to explain how Punk got there. Please keep in mind that Punk was not scheduled to be a heel when he cashed in his MITB against Hardy. Also keep in mind, that I think we all already agree that if Jeff Hardy was never there that Punk would still have gotten there eventually anyway. WWE went with the reaction that Punk was getting. See Orton, Randy. It was never planned for him to turn face and split from Legacy. But - much like the Punk scenario - it would have been dumb of WWE to ignore the crowd reaction. It happens that it was in a program with Jeff Hardy. It was not Jeff Hardy himself who made Punk the top heel. The crowd did. Ok. I agree with most of this. I agree about Orton comparison. But here is my point, they took the most over babyface and had him victimized by another babyface. Instead of a match pitting 2 faces, the crowd turned on Punk and turned him heel. And yes, I do agree that WWE listened to the crowd and turned Punk. However, where I disagree is what elevated Punk to that #1 heel. Who turns heel and goes to drawing THAT kind of heat?! If Punk had cashed in against a different babyface, he might have turned heel....but I dont think a feud with that face would have elevated him to that next level. Almost all the heat he drew was off of Jeff and preaching his straight edge values, making Jeff Hardy more human and someone the crowd could more relate too. He made Jeff more of a victim and himself into the guy who was taking advantage of Jeff. And if thats your opinion....I am asking.....what put CM Punk to the #1 heel? I am asking someone to explain how Punk got there. Please keep in mind that Punk was not scheduled to be a heel when he cashed in his MITB against Hardy. Also keep in mind, that I think we all already agree that if Jeff Hardy was never there that Punk would still have gotten there eventually anyway. Like you've been doing throughout this whole thread, you are continuing to equate Punk's heel rise in WWE to him being MADE. Jeff Hardy had nothing to do with who Punk was, how popular he was, how MADE he was before he came to WWE. IF Punk was some nobody then you might have a point...he was not, and that's what you're not seeing for whatever reason and was the whole point of our argument. You do know that there are guys in other promotions, that arent known amongst fans but, that are actually "made" or well known if you will? They don't need the WWE or Jeff Hardy to do that. Yes, the WWE, and a proper storyline certainly helps people get more popular or over..ie...see any number of WWE superstars, but that does not mean that these two factors are a prerequisite to being MADE. Perhaps you misunderstand the definition or at least my interpretation of ...MADE..It is someone that is popular/well known, recognizable in any forum they are associated with. Reggie bush is a made man, not becasue he won a super bowl or is with the saints...he's a made man becasue he had a lot of popularity coming into the game, the success in the NFL only added to what he already was. Contrastlty, Ben Rothlisberger was MADE because of something..winning with the steelers and winning Super Bowls. Prior to this, people barely knew who he was. What you're suggesting is that CM punk is Rothliesberger, when he's Reggie Bush. And there YOU go again. You clearly do not understand what being "made" is. Ever heard the term "made man"? Dude you make Punk seem like a guy who came into WWE with all this mainstream fan fair. You completely ignore the fact that lovers of Punk were indy fans/internet smarks....NOT YOUR WWE audience. The main stream WWE fan pretty much had no idea who he was. You also try to paint the indys into this world reknown source of fame and fortune. Also incorrect. Punk was just that.....A NOBODY! Main stream WWE fans were more familiar with Funaki or Jimmy Wang Yang than they were with CM Punk. NO ONE on the indys is famous. WTF?! Please stop. You are looking foolish. You dont know anything about indy wrestling. Why do you keep trying to pretend that you do? Why do you think that 99% of the guys cant pay their bills without full time jobs outside of taking wrestling bookings on the weekends?! They arent famous. They arent making money. Literally, there might be a handful of guys who dont need to work a full time job outside of wrestling and those guys have been at it for years, tourned asia and europe countless times and are known amongst their peers as the best. The guys in freaking FCW arent making crap either and also work in other jobs. crap, Brett Dibiase works the door at FCW from time to time, taking tickets as a part time gig. Comparing the NFL and rookies coming into the NFL to pro wrestling is absurd. If you want to compare the NFL and guys who go undrafted and get a try out.....thats more like it. Guys who are getting drafted, especially in the first round are known guys. CM Punk is like Reggie Bush in your analogy?! WTF?! Please tell me when CM Punk was on a national tv station sporting his craft in front of millions upon millions of viewers? Please tell me when CM Punk was in the main event of a show that was on national television on a non cable network. Please tell me all the companies that sought Punk out for him to be a spokesman for their sneaker, sports drink, clothing line, etc. right when he signed with WWE? This is a ridiculous comparison. Reggie Bush is and WAS more famous than Punk was or is now. in all honesty, cm punk's indie buzz would've blown over years ago and they would've found a new flavor of the month. I think his indy buzz would have blown over, but I do think he would have found his way out of the basement eventually. Too talented not too.
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Post by "The Visionary" Eldniw on Dec 1, 2010 1:37:44 GMT -5
WWE went with the reaction that Punk was getting. See Orton, Randy. It was never planned for him to turn face and split from Legacy. But - much like the Punk scenario - it would have been dumb of WWE to ignore the crowd reaction. It happens that it was in a program with Jeff Hardy. It was not Jeff Hardy himself who made Punk the top heel. The crowd did. Ok. I agree with most of this. I agree about Orton comparison. But here is my point, they took the most over babyface and had him victimized by another babyface. Instead of a match pitting 2 faces, the crowd turned on Punk and turned him heel. And yes, I do agree that WWE listened to the crowd and turned Punk. However, where I disagree is what elevated Punk to that #1 heel. Who turns heel and goes to drawing THAT kind of heat?! If Punk had cashed in against a different babyface, he might have turned heel....but I dont think a feud with that face would have elevated him to that next level. Almost all the heat he drew was off of Jeff and preaching his straight edge values, making Jeff Hardy more human and someone the crowd could more relate too. He made Jeff more of a victim and himself into the guy who was taking advantage of Jeff. You ask who. I give you Stone Cold Steve Austin. At no time prior to WM X-Seven were there any hints that he would turn. And BAM! April 1, we see Stone Cold shaking hands with the man that he had spent the better part of the previous 3 years battling tooth and nail with. He got the kind of heat that Punk got in the Hardy feud. The Rock was made to be the victim there, because he was expecting a 1 on 1 title match. Yet halfway through the match, here comes Vince McMahon and he helps Austin win the title. Does that mean that The Rock made Stone Cold, because The Rock was the "victim"? Absolutely not, at least in my eyes. Punk simply did the same thing that had established himself as a face, only against another face. Back to the Orton comparison. He didn't change one thing about his character, except the things he was doing to faces - punts, RKO's and other sneak attacks - he just began doing them to faces. No changes, yet listen to the pops he gets each week. Punk changed nothing, but because he was doing those things against [arguably] the company's top face at the time, that just soured the crowd's opinion for Punk. The crowd stayed behind Jeff Hardy because, yes, he was made to be the victim, when Punk cashed in his MITB contract after the ladder match that Hardy had with Edge. That doesn't mean that Hardy made Punk.
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Deleted
Joined on: May 21, 2024 17:42:47 GMT -5
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2010 1:39:00 GMT -5
WOW just wow jeff hardy has a good promo
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Post by deskjet on Dec 1, 2010 10:11:46 GMT -5
And there YOU go again. You clearly do not understand what being "made" is. Ever heard the term "made man"? Dude you make Punk seem like a guy who came into WWE with all this mainstream fan fair. You completely ignore the fact that lovers of Punk were indy fans/internet smarks....NOT YOUR WWE audience. The main stream WWE fan pretty much had no idea who he was. You also try to paint the indys into this world reknown source of fame and fortune. Also incorrect. Punk was just that.....A NOBODY! Main stream WWE fans were more familiar with Funaki or Jimmy Wang Yang than they were with CM Punk. NO ONE on the indys is famous. WTF?! Please stop. You are looking foolish. You dont know anything about indy wrestling. Why do you keep trying to pretend that you do? Why do you think that 99% of the guys cant pay their bills without full time jobs outside of taking wrestling bookings on the weekends?! They arent famous. They arent making money. Literally, there might be a handful of guys who dont need to work a full time job outside of wrestling and those guys have been at it for years, tourned asia and europe countless times and are known amongst their peers as the best. The guys in freaking FCW arent making poop either and also work in other jobs. poop, Brett Dibiase works the door at FCW from time to time, taking tickets as a part time gig. Comparing the NFL and rookies coming into the NFL to pro wrestling is absurd. If you want to compare the NFL and guys who go undrafted and get a try out.....thats more like it. Guys who are getting drafted, especially in the first round are known guys. CM Punk is like Reggie Bush in your analogy?! WTF?! Please tell me when CM Punk was on a national tv station sporting his craft in front of millions upon millions of viewers? Please tell me when CM Punk was in the main event of a show that was on national television on a non cable network. Please tell me all the companies that sought Punk out for him to be a spokesman for their sneaker, sports drink, clothing line, etc. right when he signed with WWE? This is a ridiculous comparison. Reggie Bush is and WAS more famous than Punk was or is now. You do know name calling and vehemently using emphatically stated words like absurd, or even capitalizing words, does not make you any more knowledgable on the subject? Neither does it make you anymore correct. If anything it only perpetuates, again, what you're all about and further emphasizes your insecurities, as if bragging about how many wrestler autographs you have wasn't enough I thought perhaps if I provided my perspective you'd be able to see where I was coming from better, prompting a more civilized discussion. But again, it's been twisted to your benefit And round and round we go . You're a waste of my time. Good day.
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Deleted
Joined on: May 21, 2024 17:42:47 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2010 15:06:21 GMT -5
uhh The only thing I have to say to this is .... I dont care let everybody live the life he wants If it is Jeff the Alcoholic or Punk the Straight Edge
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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on Dec 1, 2010 17:02:04 GMT -5
Ok. I agree with most of this. I agree about Orton comparison. But here is my point, they took the most over babyface and had him victimized by another babyface. Instead of a match pitting 2 faces, the crowd turned on Punk and turned him heel. And yes, I do agree that WWE listened to the crowd and turned Punk. However, where I disagree is what elevated Punk to that #1 heel. Who turns heel and goes to drawing THAT kind of heat?! If Punk had cashed in against a different babyface, he might have turned heel....but I dont think a feud with that face would have elevated him to that next level. Almost all the heat he drew was off of Jeff and preaching his straight edge values, making Jeff Hardy more human and someone the crowd could more relate too. He made Jeff more of a victim and himself into the guy who was taking advantage of Jeff. You ask who. I give you Stone Cold Steve Austin. At no time prior to WM X-Seven were there any hints that he would turn. And BAM! April 1, we see Stone Cold shaking hands with the man that he had spent the better part of the previous 3 years battling tooth and nail with. He got the kind of heat that Punk got in the Hardy feud. The Rock was made to be the victim there, because he was expecting a 1 on 1 title match. Yet halfway through the match, here comes Vince McMahon and he helps Austin win the title. Does that mean that The Rock made Stone Cold, because The Rock was the "victim"? Absolutely not, at least in my eyes. Punk simply did the same thing that had established himself as a face, only against another face. Back to the Orton comparison. He didn't change one thing about his character, except the things he was doing to faces - punts, RKO's and other sneak attacks - he just began doing them to faces. No changes, yet listen to the pops he gets each week. Punk changed nothing, but because he was doing those things against [arguably] the company's top face at the time, that just soured the crowd's opinion for Punk. The crowd stayed behind Jeff Hardy because, yes, he was made to be the victim, when Punk cashed in his MITB contract after the ladder match that Hardy had with Edge. That doesn't mean that Hardy made Punk. Austin turned b/c that was the original plan. It wasnt for Punk. Using Rock/Austin makes NO SENSE. Both Rock and Austin were both MEGA stars at the time. You need a main event star and a guy who has on the bring of superstardom to make the comparison. Orton has COMPLETELY changed from his heel gimmick. Are you kidding me?! Dont get me started on the watered down version of Randy Orton. And there YOU go again. You clearly do not understand what being "made" is. Ever heard the term "made man"? Dude you make Punk seem like a guy who came into WWE with all this mainstream fan fair. You completely ignore the fact that lovers of Punk were indy fans/internet smarks....NOT YOUR WWE audience. The main stream WWE fan pretty much had no idea who he was. You also try to paint the indys into this world reknown source of fame and fortune. Also incorrect. Punk was just that.....A NOBODY! Main stream WWE fans were more familiar with Funaki or Jimmy Wang Yang than they were with CM Punk. NO ONE on the indys is famous. WTF?! Please stop. You are looking foolish. You dont know anything about indy wrestling. Why do you keep trying to pretend that you do? Why do you think that 99% of the guys cant pay their bills without full time jobs outside of taking wrestling bookings on the weekends?! They arent famous. They arent making money. Literally, there might be a handful of guys who dont need to work a full time job outside of wrestling and those guys have been at it for years, tourned asia and europe countless times and are known amongst their peers as the best. The guys in freaking FCW arent making poop either and also work in other jobs. poop, Brett Dibiase works the door at FCW from time to time, taking tickets as a part time gig. Comparing the NFL and rookies coming into the NFL to pro wrestling is absurd. If you want to compare the NFL and guys who go undrafted and get a try out.....thats more like it. Guys who are getting drafted, especially in the first round are known guys. CM Punk is like Reggie Bush in your analogy?! WTF?! Please tell me when CM Punk was on a national tv station sporting his craft in front of millions upon millions of viewers? Please tell me when CM Punk was in the main event of a show that was on national television on a non cable network. Please tell me all the companies that sought Punk out for him to be a spokesman for their sneaker, sports drink, clothing line, etc. right when he signed with WWE? This is a ridiculous comparison. Reggie Bush is and WAS more famous than Punk was or is now. You do know name calling and vehemently using emphatically stated words like absurd, or even capitalizing words, does not make you any more knowledgable on the subject? Neither does it make you anymore correct. If anything it only perpetuates, again, what you're all about and further emphasizes your insecurities, as if bragging about how many wrestler autographs you have wasn't enough I thought perhaps if I provided my perspective you'd be able to see where I was coming from better, prompting a more civilized discussion. But again, it's been twisted to your benefit And round and round we go . You're a waste of my time. Good day. Your right. Name calling and capitalizing words doesnt make me more right. The absurd statements you make about indy wrestling is what makes me right. I brag about how many wrestling autographs I have? Man, you really do have a very wild imagination. Making a post about who I met and what I got signed is no different than the countless posts from people and what figures they bought or what replica belts they own, etc, etc. Civilized discussion? I tried to have that with you. Instead, you felt the need to take cheap shots. You throw stones.....I'll throw a boulder. I tried to show you how wrong you were about numerous statements you made about indy wrestling and you scoffed at it and instead tried to spin it into meaning something else.....and you were still wrong. We go round and round b/c you cant answer 1 question I prompted you, but you feel the need to keep addressing me, while adding your snide little comments. You've said I was a waste of time before and yet you keep responding. If its such a waste of time, you dont have to keep responding. Besides, everytime you do....you say something ridiculous.
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Post by deskjet on Dec 1, 2010 18:22:32 GMT -5
You ask who. I give you Stone Cold Steve Austin. At no time prior to WM X-Seven were there any hints that he would turn. And BAM! April 1, we see Stone Cold shaking hands with the man that he had spent the better part of the previous 3 years battling tooth and nail with. He got the kind of heat that Punk got in the Hardy feud. The Rock was made to be the victim there, because he was expecting a 1 on 1 title match. Yet halfway through the match, here comes Vince McMahon and he helps Austin win the title. Does that mean that The Rock made Stone Cold, because The Rock was the "victim"? Absolutely not, at least in my eyes. Punk simply did the same thing that had established himself as a face, only against another face. Back to the Orton comparison. He didn't change one thing about his character, except the things he was doing to faces - punts, RKO's and other sneak attacks - he just began doing them to faces. No changes, yet listen to the pops he gets each week. Punk changed nothing, but because he was doing those things against [arguably] the company's top face at the time, that just soured the crowd's opinion for Punk. The crowd stayed behind Jeff Hardy because, yes, he was made to be the victim, when Punk cashed in his MITB contract after the ladder match that Hardy had with Edge. That doesn't mean that Hardy made Punk. Austin turned b/c that was the original plan. It wasnt for Punk. Using Rock/Austin makes NO SENSE. Both Rock and Austin were both MEGA stars at the time. You need a main event star and a guy who has on the bring of superstardom to make the comparison. Orton has COMPLETELY changed from his heel gimmick. Are you kidding me?! Dont get me started on the watered down version of Randy Orton. You do know name calling and vehemently using emphatically stated words like absurd, or even capitalizing words, does not make you any more knowledgable on the subject? Neither does it make you anymore correct. If anything it only perpetuates, again, what you're all about and further emphasizes your insecurities, as if bragging about how many wrestler autographs you have wasn't enough I thought perhaps if I provided my perspective you'd be able to see where I was coming from better, prompting a more civilized discussion. But again, it's been twisted to your benefit And round and round we go . You're a waste of my time. Good day. Your right. Name calling and capitalizing words doesnt make me more right. The absurd statements you make about indy wrestling is what makes me right. I brag about how many wrestling autographs I have? Man, you really do have a very wild imagination. Making a post about who I met and what I got signed is no different than the countless posts from people and what figures they bought or what replica belts they own, etc, etc. Civilized discussion? I tried to have that with you. Instead, you felt the need to take cheap shots. You throw stones.....I'll throw a boulder. I tried to show you how wrong you were about numerous statements you made about indy wrestling and you scoffed at it and instead tried to spin it into meaning something else.....and you were still wrong. We go round and round b/c you cant answer 1 question I prompted you, but you feel the need to keep addressing me, while adding your snide little comments. You've said I was a waste of time before and yet you keep responding. If its such a waste of time, you dont have to keep responding. Besides, everytime you do....you say something ridiculous.[/quote]
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Post by Suckasays on Dec 1, 2010 18:34:22 GMT -5
meh...
This is clearly going nowhere
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