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Post by The Sexy Psychotic on Nov 18, 2013 17:28:29 GMT -5
Yeah yeah we've ALL read multiple one's of these - "what if it hadn't have happened?", "was it a work?", "was the match any good?". But I'm asking another question, after having watched some of the Raws leading up to the event yesterday I need to say, there was a gap of like two weeks before the event where Michaels and Hart weren't even on the show, the week before Bret wasn't on it and was hardly even mentioned!
Was this due to friction between the two? Was it cause of Bret having fulfilled his date-obligation? Or hell was it even just WWE's way of down-playing Bret cause of his moving to WCW?
Anyone know?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2013 18:48:58 GMT -5
I genuinely don't know and Cornette doesn't mention this on his 1997 shoot either.
I believe your correct & it may have been due to Brets dates and friction though....maybe Vince didn't want Bret getting wind of what was going down.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2013 19:56:57 GMT -5
This is interesting.
I have no clue. I doubt it was the amount of dates worked because Bret wrestled in Detroit at a house show the night before Survivor Series.
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Post by cordless2016 on Nov 18, 2013 20:39:35 GMT -5
I genuinely don't know and Cornette doesn't mention this on his 1997 shoot either. I believe your correct & it may have been due to Brets dates and friction though....maybe Vince didn't want Bret getting wind of what was going down. I tend to agree with this. Vince probably felt Bret would know something was up had the two of them been around each other. Vince and Bret were both very vocal people behind the scenes and something would have gone down backstage had they been around each other much before the SS.
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Post by Nivro™ on Nov 18, 2013 21:39:12 GMT -5
I thought the screwjob was decided the night before/day of the event?
I still dont understand why after the screw job Bret didnt get on a plane and fly straight to wherever Nitro was and walk out. Im pretty sure he didnt have a 90day clause (seeing as he debuted less then 90 days) and he could have easily walked out on Nitro with a copy of the WWF Title and really stuck it to McMahon.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2013 5:47:45 GMT -5
I thought the screwjob was decided the night before/day of the event? . it was.....but I will ALWAYS believe that Vince had this in mind for a considerable time.its like another screwjob related issue..... Q:why did Vince put the title on Bret in the first place?and why did he wait so long to relieve him of it?he had MULTIPLE opportunities and scenarios to do so....... this is one we will never know.Vince say that at the time of Summerslam 1997 Vince didn't know he wouldn't be able to afford harts contract......but I say that's Bull. basically UT should've got a rematch......HF interferes......Austin interferes and counters costing Hart the strap.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2013 11:50:02 GMT -5
I will never understand how Vince couldn't afford Bret.
Cornette even backs this up in his 1997 commentary talking about attendance being down but business was clealy going up at the time.
Plus, Mike Tyson had a like $1 million dollar deal for a handful of appearances which had to have been made immediately following Bret's departure as Tyson's first appearance was at Royal Rumble 1998.
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Post by MrPerfect25 on Nov 19, 2013 14:15:25 GMT -5
I don't buy the not being able to afford Bret either. It was his ego. I don't think he truly thought Bret would go to WCW. And when he proved him wrong, Vince wanted to do something edgey and controversial that would result in a total 180 of the product....which became the Attitude Era.
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Post by mikey1974 on Nov 19, 2013 16:19:30 GMT -5
He COULD afford Bret,considering he paid Tyson $3 Million for a few appearances,and Bret's contract was $1.5 Million a year for the first 3 years of his contract. he obviously had the money to keep Bret (his story to Bret was that he could no longer afford to pay him what they agreed upon,so Bret either had to restructure the contract for less money or leave)since he just had $3 Million lying around to pay Tyson,but made the decision he'd rather use it elsewhere than keep the Hitman in the WWF.
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Post by mikey1974 on Nov 19, 2013 16:24:32 GMT -5
part of the problem,at least in Bret's mind,was that the contract gave him unprecedented freedom for a WWF worker,including full compensation if he was injured at any point,control over "The Hitman" character (which was a part of his previous contract that carried over) and the creative control over his final 30 days with the company clause,on top of the biggest WWF contract up to that point. I have no doubt that it pissed Vince off,all he had to give up,to keep one of his top stars.
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Post by Punk on Nov 19, 2013 16:26:49 GMT -5
Well, seeing as we're talking about it... I got to touch this a while ago.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2013 16:28:06 GMT -5
Bret had already fulfilled his dates, so I doubt Vin wanted to pay him extra considering he was about to bury him.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2013 16:30:32 GMT -5
I thought the screwjob was decided the night before/day of the event? I still dont understand why after the screw job Bret didnt get on a plane and fly straight to wherever Nitro was and walk out. Im pretty sure he didnt have a 90day clause (seeing as he debuted less then 90 days) and he could have easily walked out on Nitro with a copy of the WWF Title and really stuck it to McMahon. Shawn took the title. So Bret no longer had it.
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Post by mikey1974 on Nov 19, 2013 16:45:51 GMT -5
I thought the screwjob was decided the night before/day of the event? I still dont understand why after the screw job Bret didnt get on a plane and fly straight to wherever Nitro was and walk out. Im pretty sure he didnt have a 90day clause (seeing as he debuted less then 90 days) and he could have easily walked out on Nitro with a copy of the WWF Title and really stuck it to McMahon. Shawn took the title. So Bret no longer had it. plus,WCW would've got sued up the ass! they already did when Madusa dropped the Women's Belt in the trash, mainly cause the intellectual property of the WWF - their logo - was clearly visible on TNT. if Bret showed up wit hthe WWF Title,even a replica one,they would've got sued again,for WWF property and brand logo showing up on a competitor's program without consent .
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Post by Nivro™ on Nov 19, 2013 17:03:48 GMT -5
I thought the screwjob was decided the night before/day of the event? I still dont understand why after the screw job Bret didnt get on a plane and fly straight to wherever Nitro was and walk out. Im pretty sure he didnt have a 90day clause (seeing as he debuted less then 90 days) and he could have easily walked out on Nitro with a copy of the WWF Title and really stuck it to McMahon. Shawn took the title. So Bret no longer had it. A lot of wrestlers get copies of their titles. I know Bret had his Tag Title, I would imagine he has at least one Winged Eagle laying around. Especially if it was the one with the top torn off so there was no WWF logo. It would be worth the lawsuit.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2013 19:25:03 GMT -5
Bischoff may have wanted or toyed with the idea of Bret showing up with the title but the higher ups at Turner would never have allowed it because of the trademark infringement lawsuits that were raging at the time.no way no how.
and Vince DEFO knew this....under advice from the feared Jerry McDevitt Vince would have been aware of how touchy a subject this would have been with Turner execs.
so the belt thing is also a BS excuse on his part.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2013 20:15:23 GMT -5
F*ck them for doing this and f*ck Bret for leaving. They all should have grown up and worked something out. Shame on them all. Bret was in the prime of his career and belonged in WWF. This never should have happened and all parties involved are to blame. Childish.
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Dante, The Voc
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Post by Dante, The Voc on Nov 19, 2013 20:29:39 GMT -5
I know we talk a lot of Shawn being a primadonna and whining when he didn't get his way, but Bret was just as bad, if not worse, during this time. Cornette even said he refused to drop the belt in Canada, then when passed the idea of dropping the belt in Detroit, he came back and said he wouldn't lose to Michaels at all.
The Screwjob was bound to happen because neither party could possibly lose. It'd hurt the WWF substantially if a) the guy who's leaving, the new "WcW talent" beats the WWF talent, and b) pretty boy Shawn doesn't get his way. But Bret losing clean is a scenario that while it's passed through my mind, I cannot fathom that going down in any way, shape or form. He just wouldn't let Shawn or Vince have their way, and he truly believed he was on a pedestal above any other wrestling talent at that time. While one may argue it's a dirty and unprofessional way to get a guy to drop the belt, I'd argue it's more unprofessional for the guy to not honor his contract (he didn't have creative control right? Meaning anything he's told to do he has to do) in its last few days and act like a whiny crybaby, "take-my-ball-and-go-home" primadonna, along with the usual whiny crybaby, "take-my-ball-and-go-home" primadonna that's known for his antics.
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Post by mikey1974 on Nov 20, 2013 6:41:36 GMT -5
He did have creative control for his last 30 days with the company.
the problem,ultimately,stemmed from 2 things:
1) Vince not honoring Bret's contract.Vince signed this. he didn't have to,but he felt Bret was such an important,vital cog in the WWF machine that he was willing to do anything to keep him.funny how that all changed a year later,but Vince did what he did in 1996,and then attempted to renege on it a year later.Both in not wanting to pay him what they agreed upon,but in also violating Bret's creative control clause.
2) Shawn Michaels hissy-fit on October 12th,1997. Where Bret told him he was willing to drop the Belt to HBK on his way out of the company,and Shawn told Bret if the situation was reversed,he would NOT be willing to do the job for Bret. THIS was when Bret decided he didn't want to drop it to Shawn Michaels at all,whether it be Canada or the U.S.,because he felt completely disrespected by Shawn as not only the World Champion but as a locker room leader.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2013 6:46:53 GMT -5
Cornette nails it on his year in 1997 shoot when he says why on Earth did Vince wait so long to relieve Bret of the title or put it on him in the first place.
obviously worked out GREAT for Vince mind you but he couldn't have known that.
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