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Post by punksnotdead on Apr 17, 2014 16:55:11 GMT -5
So I decided pull this dvd out today and dust it off. I think I've only watched it a couple times at best and for whatever reason, I was in the mood to torture myself. It had been a few years so I mostly had forgotten what everyone said on it at this point. All I can say after struggling to get through it, is that Warrior had every right to be extremely upset about this hour and a half burial of a guy who got over as much as Hulk Hogan at the peak of his popularity. I love Bobby Heenan, guy is the greatest manager of all time, but he was a total ing pr*ck in this dvd. Which is hilarious, because Warrior said Bobby did a good job as a manager on his BR set. Hogan and King are the two worst imo because they flip flop the entire documentary on bashing him and then saying he was great. Vince flat out lies at one point because we now know he asked Warrior to return in 1997 AGAIN. I just don't understand it. Why would they go out of their way to even make this dvd? Nobody talks about what a savvy business guy Warrior was and how ahead the curve he was in that regard. Jericho finally makes mention at the very end that he doesn't get enough credit for his in-ring performances, which I know we've discussed on here at times. Edge still seems to think it's 1990 and Warrior is the villain for taking Hogan's belt. I just think it was a lot of people burying and assuming versus actually knowing, or just outright being jealous in the case of Ted Dibiase, because the guy climbed the mountain in ridiculous fashion. I don't know man, I just kind of needed to get this off my chest and out in the open. I had a Warrior lunchbox and notebook when I was 5 years old and didn't even really know what wrestling was yet. He was polarizing to an entire generation. I get that the guy wasn't a Ricky Steamboat type of wrestler, but the more I go back and watch, the more I notice that a large majority of the guys at that time were punch and kick artists in WWF. I mean Warrior had good matches with Rude, Savage and Hogan, so he delivered in those high profile spots. I just tend to think he was an outsider and maybe a bit of introvert socially and didn't want to get caught up in being one of the "boys" and people didn't like that about him. I'm just glad he got to say his peace so to speak, and I'm glad that WWE has sort of righted the wrong with his legacy, but it's a shame he didn't get to fully enjoy it. Anyway, I'm sure I have an extremely one sided view of the situation, but I thought it would be a good time to kind of bring this back to the forefront and talk about how the tide changed for Warrior so quickly over the course of 3-4 days.
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Post by CrossRhodes on Apr 17, 2014 17:06:47 GMT -5
He was one of the best sports entertainers of his generation but he wasn't one of the best wrestlers, I have nothing but respect for the legend of ultimate warrior & his contribution to the entire wrestling business, that's just my personal opinion.
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Post by kazoosandstreamers on Apr 17, 2014 17:15:54 GMT -5
It was a pretty brutal bashing. They really had it out for him it seemed.
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HuskerTornado
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Post by HuskerTornado on Apr 17, 2014 18:18:10 GMT -5
It was a scripted character assassination after all of the court cases he won against them.
I believe it took years off his life with the stress and strain on his heart.
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Jamal
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Post by Jamal on Apr 17, 2014 18:31:01 GMT -5
Didn't they plan on making one for Bret Hart as well? Or was that just a bs rumor?
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Post by speaktomeworriers on Apr 17, 2014 19:02:54 GMT -5
i remember how excited i was when I seen this at the store, I couldnt wait to get home and watch it...then i started watching it, and I got very confused, I didnt know what the hell was going on,lol, I thought , what kind of garbage is this, then i realized it was a mockumentary, I was so pisssssssssssssssssssssssed
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Captain McKay
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Post by Captain McKay on Apr 17, 2014 20:20:14 GMT -5
I've only seen clips of it, but Jericho addressed it on his podcast recently, saying that it wasn't your typical WWE retrospective of a man's career. He basically said they told everyone to really concentrate on the bad points, to the point of slander (which he has admitted a little guilt over, since he mentioned that Warrior was great to him in their one real meeting).
Still, I could definitely see the animosity leading to the kind of legal issues that it provided.
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Post by punksnotdead on Apr 17, 2014 20:33:47 GMT -5
Didn't they plan on making one for Bret Hart as well? Or was that just a bs rumor? I want to say you're right. I think that was part of Bret coming back and doing the HOF before Mania 22. I'm not a big Bret fan, so someone could probably tell you far more accurately than I but I thought he agreed to the HOF because of WWE's handling of his legacy.
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Post by punksnotdead on Apr 17, 2014 20:47:22 GMT -5
I've only seen clips of it, but Jericho addressed it on his podcast recently, saying that it wasn't your typical WWE retrospective of a man's career. He basically said they told everyone to really concentrate on the bad points, to the point of slander (which he has admitted a little guilt over, since he mentioned that Warrior was great to him in their one real meeting). Still, I could definitely see the animosity leading to the kind of legal issues that it provided. Jericho is actually one of the better interviews on the DVD imo. He doesn't really have anything too negative to say about Warrior. I mean he's not overly flattering, and he calls it like he sees it to some degree, but he's far more fair than guys like Heenan, JR and Dibiase.
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Post by The Natural Eddy Valintino on Apr 17, 2014 21:15:25 GMT -5
I remember when my brother bought it. It was disrespectful, but at the same time, I honestly couldn't help but being entertained by this bashing. And I liked watching the Warrior. I was more interested in the matches they put on the DVD than the documentary itself. When my older brother started introducing me to the early 90s wrestling, Ultimate Warrior was one of the first ones I really enjoyed watching. I'm sure now the only way you can buy that DVD is if someone's selling it on eBay and I'm glad they made a new one. I haven't bought it yet, but I plan on buying it in a week.
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Post by Jonathan Karate on Apr 17, 2014 21:47:02 GMT -5
Remember watching it with my step dad and him saying well all this is proving is that he was a jerk off and not good.....its only now that I realize how ed up the DVD was. I actually never watched it again.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2014 23:00:58 GMT -5
As stated above, Jericho mentioned this on his podcast and said they were instructed to shoot at Warrior on this DVD.
There was one of these planned for Bret Hart also which was going to be titled "Screwed: The Bret Hart Story" until Bret found out and finally ironed things out with Vince.
I don't think Warrior's self destruction DVD is that bad. I'm sure you guys are all just looking at it in a different light since he's dead now. I found it to be pretty entertaining and probably more truthful than we realize. I don't think it was a total burial either. I seem to remember the DVD including Warrior's better matches and some of the guys still said nice things regardless of the tone of the documentary.
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HuskerTornado
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Post by HuskerTornado on Apr 17, 2014 23:39:50 GMT -5
As stated above, Jericho mentioned this on his podcast and said they were instructed to shoot at Warrior on this DVD. There was one of these planned for Bret Hart also which was going to be titled "Screwed: The Bret Hart Story" until Bret found out and finally ironed things out with Vince. I don't think Warrior's self destruction DVD is that bad. I'm sure you guys are all just looking at it in a different light since he's dead now. I found it to be pretty entertaining and probably more truthful than we realize. I don't think it was a total burial either. I seem to remember the DVD including Warrior's better matches and some of the guys still said nice things regardless of the tone of the documentary. No. It's always been an awful character assassination piece. It's childish and revisionist history. Full of lies and exaggerations. This was the reaction when it was released and remains so to this day.
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Falconsinclair
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Post by Falconsinclair on Apr 17, 2014 23:48:03 GMT -5
I always felt the DVD did a complete 180 while it was running. It started of talking about how much of an impact his career had, then about halfway in it turned into a complete burial.
It almost seems they started making the DVD with the intention of including Warrior and when he turned them down they completely changed the entire tone of the set.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2014 0:16:36 GMT -5
As stated above, Jericho mentioned this on his podcast and said they were instructed to shoot at Warrior on this DVD. There was one of these planned for Bret Hart also which was going to be titled "Screwed: The Bret Hart Story" until Bret found out and finally ironed things out with Vince. I don't think Warrior's self destruction DVD is that bad. I'm sure you guys are all just looking at it in a different light since he's dead now. I found it to be pretty entertaining and probably more truthful than we realize. I don't think it was a total burial either. I seem to remember the DVD including Warrior's better matches and some of the guys still said nice things regardless of the tone of the documentary. No. It's always been an awful character assassination piece. It's childish and revisionist history. Full of lies and exaggerations. This was the reaction when it was released and remains so to this day. I enjoyed it.
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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on Apr 18, 2014 0:28:47 GMT -5
I enjoyed it as well. Because of his passing, I think we are forgetting a lot of the bad things Warrior has done. From holding Vince up for money, no showing scheduled shows and even his anti homophobic rants or his attack of ebay sellers for selling Warrior merchandise on ebay......Warrior wasnt an angel. Its an extremely sad story and he will definitely be missed. But this DVD exposed a lot of the crimes Warrior put WWE through. WWE is no angel either. They have made mistakes and have disrespected people. But I think a lot of this dvd was very honest. Hogan, Slaughter and Heenan just told the world how they felt about Warrior. Warrior was fairly reckless in the ring.
With all that said, he is also a legend in pro wrestling. In his documentary that aired tonight, they made mention of how his popularity was rivaling Hogans and that is why they went ahead and put the belt on him. I believe this to be 100% true. I grew up watching this era and can remember how much I loved Warrior. Hogan was my guy in WWF, but Warrior kept growing on me more and more and more. And it was cuz he looked like a super hero. To a kid, his nonsensical promos meant nothing. What I saw was this larger than life hero snarling, growling and being tough and saying he was gonna kick some butt. He deserves to be honored for his accomplisments and remembered for his contributions. But we shouldnt just forget his shortcomings either.
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Post by Johnny Wrestling on Apr 18, 2014 0:45:06 GMT -5
Didn't they plan on making one for Bret Hart as well? Or was that just a bs rumor? I want to say you're right. I think that was part of Bret coming back and doing the HOF before Mania 22. I'm not a big Bret fan, so someone could probably tell you far more accurately than I but I thought he agreed to the HOF because of WWE's handling of his legacy. I'm pretty sure that is right, and the DVD was intended to be called "Screwed: the Bret Hart story". But since (thank God) Hart agreed to colaborate on this since he had wanted a DVD on his career for a long time, so they scrapped that and went with what we actually got.
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Post by punksnotdead on Apr 18, 2014 1:12:32 GMT -5
I don't think anyone was claiming Warrior was an angel. I do think he was one of the very few guys in the history of wrestling who had big enough balls to take Vince head on over the business side of his character. He was incredibly business minded. Did it fit the mold of the old school way of thinking? Absolutely not, but he was protecting himself because nobody else was going to do it for him. He was leveraging his popularity against Vince for money he thought he earned in popularity or merchandising or by putting asses in seats or whatever. An individual is allowed to interpret that however they want imo, but he and Kevin Nash both fall into a very unique class in that regard for me personally.
That isn't the problem though. The problem with the DVD is the motivation. WWE put that together to hurt Warrior and that's exactly what it did. Pillman and Jake the Snake both have fantastic documentaries that deal with their real life demons, but neither guy was buried for it the way they came after Warrior. Why put the DVD out at all? Why even tell that story to a generation of fans who were really none the wiser to any of that dirty laundry? The only reason is to hurt Warrior's legacy and his brand. They also made it a point to not let Warrior tell his side of the story, given that the truth almost always falls somewhere in the middle.
It's one thing to say a guy has faults and is human, it's an entirely different thing to not give him credit for his accomplishments and discredit every element of his character.
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HuskerTornado
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Post by HuskerTornado on Apr 18, 2014 1:53:44 GMT -5
I enjoyed it as well. Because of his passing, I think we are forgetting a lot of the bad things Warrior has done. From holding Vince up for money, no showing scheduled shows and even his anti homophobic rants or his attack of ebay sellers for selling Warrior merchandise on ebay......Warrior wasnt an angel. Its an extremely sad story and he will definitely be missed. But this DVD exposed a lot of the crimes Warrior put WWE through. WWE is no angel either. They have made mistakes and have disrespected people. But I think a lot of this dvd was very honest. Hogan, Slaughter and Heenan just told the world how they felt about Warrior. Warrior was fairly reckless in the ring. With all that said, he is also a legend in pro wrestling. In his documentary that aired tonight, they made mention of how his popularity was rivaling Hogans and that is why they went ahead and put the belt on him. I believe this to be 100% true. I grew up watching this era and can remember how much I loved Warrior. Hogan was my guy in WWF, but Warrior kept growing on me more and more and more. And it was cuz he looked like a super hero. To a kid, his nonsensical promos meant nothing. What I saw was this larger than life hero snarling, growling and being tough and saying he was gonna kick some butt. He deserves to be honored for his accomplisments and remembered for his contributions. But we shouldnt just forget his shortcomings either. I thought the "holding up" thing was squashed by the leaked letters earlier this year? His attack of ebay sellers? I don't recall that...only the ones that are selling counterfeit merchandise. How is that a bad thing? Sounds like you really did enjoy and buy in to the Self Destruction dvd. lol
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2014 2:11:59 GMT -5
I thought it was fine when you ignored the obvious bashing. It was really only the late middle/end that was really bashing. The early/early middle part was fine to me.
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