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Post by Yoshihiko The G.O.A.T on Aug 22, 2015 9:43:21 GMT -5
What's everyone's thoughts on the op question. Should he get the hogan treatment. Especially during this divas revolution.
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Post by MADNESS_NH_97 on Aug 22, 2015 9:47:00 GMT -5
People saying Valentine hasn't done anything memorable or noteworthy have no clue. His dog collar match with Piper at Starcade 83 was an instant classic. He also had great feuds with Wahoo McDaniel and Bob Backlund. Do some research- there was good wrestling outside of the WWE. And up until a month ago women's wrestling was a joke. They were 3 minute matches that gave you a safe time to go use the restroom without missing anything. Sure this whole divas revolution is hopefully start of something more respected, but even Trish Stratus and the Bellas started out as nothing more than eye candy. Greg Valentine's comments are old fashioned and misogynistic but he's partly right. Women will not draw the way men do. Do they have a place? Yes. At one point, Glorious Ladies of wrestling had its own show. But they won't headline the way the guys do. Was it? Really? You know that Paige Vs. Emma, Paige Vs. Natalya, Natalya Vs. Charlotte, Charlotte Vs. Bayley, Charlotte Vs. Sasha Banks, Charlotte Vs. Sasha Banks Vs. Becky Lynch Vs. Bayley & Sasha Banks Vs. Becky Lynch(only mentioning WWE Matches) took place between 2013 and now? Or is 1 Month for you 2 1/2 Years for everyone else? And by the way. These Women did not need Dog Collars for a "instant classic" which some of these Matches deserve to get called.
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TheBadGuyChico
POSSIBLE BAD TRADER
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Post by TheBadGuyChico on Aug 22, 2015 9:52:33 GMT -5
People saying Valentine hasn't done anything memorable or noteworthy have no clue. His dog collar match with Piper at Starcade 83 was an instant classic. He also had great feuds with Wahoo McDaniel and Bob Backlund. Do some research- there was good wrestling outside of the WWE. And up until a month ago women's wrestling was a joke. They were 3 minute matches that gave you a safe time to go use the restroom without missing anything. Sure this whole divas revolution is hopefully start of something more respected, but even Trish Stratus and the Bellas started out as nothing more than eye candy. Greg Valentine's comments are old fashioned and misogynistic but he's partly right. Women will not draw the way men do. Do they have a place? Yes. At one point, Glorious Ladies of wrestling had its own show. But they won't headline the way the guys do. Was it? Really? You know that Paige Vs. Emma, Paige Vs. Natalya, Natalya Vs. Charlotte, Charlotte Vs. Bayley, Charlotte Vs. Sasha Banks, Charlotte Vs. Sasha Banks Vs. Becky Lynch Vs. Bayley & Sasha Banks Vs. Becky Lynch(only mentioning WWE Matches) took place between 2013 and now? Or is 1 Month for you 2 1/2 Years for everyone else? And by the way. These Women did not need Dog Collars for a "instant classic" which some of these Matches deserve to get called. Are you really saying one of the most fundamentally sound wrestlers of all time needed a Dog Collar lol? What about his matches with Backlund, Wahoo, the lumberjack with tito. The tag title match at wrestlemania 2 ring a bell?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2015 10:05:11 GMT -5
People saying Valentine hasn't done anything memorable or noteworthy have no clue. His dog collar match with Piper at Starcade 83 was an instant classic. He also had great feuds with Wahoo McDaniel and Bob Backlund. Do some research- there was good wrestling outside of the WWE. And up until a month ago women's wrestling was a joke. They were 3 minute matches that gave you a safe time to go use the restroom without missing anything. Sure this whole divas revolution is hopefully start of something more respected, but even Trish Stratus and the Bellas started out as nothing more than eye candy. Greg Valentine's comments are old fashioned and misogynistic but he's partly right. Women will not draw the way men do. Do they have a place? Yes. At one point, Glorious Ladies of wrestling had its own show. But they won't headline the way the guys do.
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Post by lumpy: he's super serial on Aug 22, 2015 10:08:08 GMT -5
People saying Valentine hasn't done anything memorable or noteworthy have no clue. His dog collar match with Piper at Starcade 83 was an instant classic. He also had great feuds with Wahoo McDaniel and Bob Backlund. Do some research- there was good wrestling outside of the WWE. And up until a month ago women's wrestling was a joke. They were 3 minute matches that gave you a safe time to go use the restroom without missing anything. Sure this whole divas revolution is hopefully start of something more respected, but even Trish Stratus and the Bellas started out as nothing more than eye candy. Greg Valentine's comments are old fashioned and misogynistic but he's partly right. Women will not draw the way men do. Do they have a place? Yes. At one point, Glorious Ladies of wrestling had its own show. But they won't headline the way the guys do. Was it? Really? You know that Paige Vs. Emma, Paige Vs. Natalya, Natalya Vs. Charlotte, Charlotte Vs. Bayley, Charlotte Vs. Sasha Banks, Charlotte Vs. Sasha Banks Vs. Becky Lynch Vs. Bayley & Sasha Banks Vs. Becky Lynch(only mentioning WWE Matches) took place between 2013 and now? Or is 1 Month for you 2 1/2 Years for everyone else? And by the way. These Women did not need Dog Collars for a "instant classic" which some of these Matches deserve to get called. Do yourself a favor and watch his matches. There's more on the network than NXT. As others have said, the guy in his prime was magic in the ring. And the ladies you mentioned may have done great work, but they're not anywhere near the level of discussion the Hammer warrants. Besides, if women's wrestling in the WWE was so great prior to a month or two, why market this divas revolution? A revolution implies the old was bad and we need something new. Like I said, his remarks are sexist. You can't say he's no good in the ring though.
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Post by Ember's Flame on Aug 22, 2015 10:09:43 GMT -5
I'm willing to bet Becky and Sasha alone have sold more of their T-Shirts since their rise to the main roster than anything ever produced in Greg Valentines name. What a sexist jerk. In his day Heels weren't supposed to sell merchandise, so what is your point? A real heel doesn't want you wearing his likeness, at least when Kayfabe was alive. Understood. Still a sexist jerk
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Chief
Main Eventer
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Post by Chief on Aug 22, 2015 10:10:09 GMT -5
Eh whatever. Right or wrong, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Still not even close to the Hogan comments. If he would have called them c***s or d***s then maybe it would be comparable.
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Post by MADNESS_NH_97 on Aug 22, 2015 10:17:36 GMT -5
Was it? Really? You know that Paige Vs. Emma, Paige Vs. Natalya, Natalya Vs. Charlotte, Charlotte Vs. Bayley, Charlotte Vs. Sasha Banks, Charlotte Vs. Sasha Banks Vs. Becky Lynch Vs. Bayley & Sasha Banks Vs. Becky Lynch(only mentioning WWE Matches) took place between 2013 and now? Or is 1 Month for you 2 1/2 Years for everyone else? And by the way. These Women did not need Dog Collars for a "instant classic" which some of these Matches deserve to get called. Are you really saying one of the most fundamentally sound wrestlers of all time needed a Dog Collar lol? What about his matches with Backlund, Wahoo, the lumberjack with tito. The tag title match at wrestlemania 2 ring a bell? Is Greg Valentine really saying that the Matches i named + many other good Women's Wrestling Matches where "horrible" ?
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Post by Mr. PerpetuaLynch Motion on Aug 22, 2015 10:21:23 GMT -5
Eh whatever. Right or wrong, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Still not even close to the Hogan comments. If he would have called them c***s or d***s then maybe it would be comparable. Alright if everyone is entitled to their opinions then why is Hogan's comments worse? Hate is hate. There's no such thing as "A isn't as bad as B" when it comes to comments like Hogan's and Valentine's. It's all trash.
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Post by Ember's Flame on Aug 22, 2015 10:29:38 GMT -5
It's not a matter of right or wrong at all, his comments are wrong. His wrestling ability and career to the side, this is wrong.
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Chief
Main Eventer
Joined on: Apr 21, 2008 15:36:44 GMT -5
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Post by Chief on Aug 22, 2015 10:39:25 GMT -5
Eh whatever. Right or wrong, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Still not even close to the Hogan comments. If he would have called them c***s or d***s then maybe it would be comparable. Alright if everyone is entitled to their opinions then why is Hogan's comments worse? Hate is hate. There's no such thing as "A isn't as bad as B" when it comes to comments like Hogan's and Valentine's. It's all trash. Same reason why there are different degrees of criminal charges because some are worst then others. I could say I don't like women's wrestling and they belong in the kitchen, etc. Or I could say that those dumb c***s don't belong in a wrestling ring and all b****es belong in the kitchen making me sandwiches. The latter is worse, much worse. Greg Valentine is an old out of touch man speaking antiquated thoughts while Hulk Hogan was using vile language to spew hate.
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Post by MADNESS_NH_97 on Aug 22, 2015 10:39:43 GMT -5
Was it? Really? You know that Paige Vs. Emma, Paige Vs. Natalya, Natalya Vs. Charlotte, Charlotte Vs. Bayley, Charlotte Vs. Sasha Banks, Charlotte Vs. Sasha Banks Vs. Becky Lynch Vs. Bayley & Sasha Banks Vs. Becky Lynch(only mentioning WWE Matches) took place between 2013 and now? Or is 1 Month for you 2 1/2 Years for everyone else? And by the way. These Women did not need Dog Collars for a "instant classic" which some of these Matches deserve to get called. Do yourself a favor and watch his matches. There's more on the network than NXT. As others have said, the guy in his prime was magic in the ring. And the ladies you mentioned may have done great work, but they're not anywhere near the level of discussion the Hammer warrants. Besides, if women's wrestling in the WWE was so great prior to a month or two, why market this divas revolution? A revolution implies the old was bad and we need something new. Like I said, his remarks are sexist. You can't say he's no good in the ring though. Sarcasm. Do you know what that is? According to Greg Valentine these Womens Matches who have been Normal Matches are Horrible eventhought these Women had many great Matches. So i made a Joke about them not needing a Dog Collar like him who according to you guys had a "Timeless/Instant Classic" Dog Collar Match ! Did i say the Match was bad? NO! I just hate the comparisons of Normal PRO WRESTLING Matches and GIMMICK Matches. It might was a Classic but i don't care because it makes no sense to compare a Match that involved objects etc etc to a Match that was based on pure In Ring Skills ONLY with out the usage of Objects like in this case a Dog Collar Oh and I never said that he is not good in the Ring. He is! I know that! So you don't need to tell me to do myself a favor! The only one that needs to do himself a favor is Greg Valentine and watch some of the Matches I mentioned! So stop telling me how good he is and that i should not say the things i said etc etc. If he makes stupid and sexist comments like that you need to expect certain people to make comments like that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2015 10:41:27 GMT -5
What's everyone's thoughts on the op question. Should he get the hogan treatment. Especially during this divas revolution. No. People shouldn't be written out of history just because they have a backwards opinion.
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Chief
Main Eventer
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Post by Chief on Aug 22, 2015 10:45:34 GMT -5
What's everyone's thoughts on the op question. Should he get the hogan treatment. Especially during this divas revolution. No. People shouldn't be written out of history just because they have a backwards opinion. People are too easily offended these days.
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Aug 22, 2015 10:53:04 GMT -5
The most ironic part about this is that in 1999 his daughter was trying out to be a pro wrestler. She looked JUST LIKE Greg Valentine too in her face. Not a pretty picture!
I have to say, that even though Greg was very rude and ignorant about it, he does have a point about women's wrestling (at least in the WWE).
They don't draw a dime - at least not the ones now. Everyone can talk about Sasha, Bayley, Charlotte, and them while they wrestle in NXT. That's fine, most NXT fans think everything that happens in NXT is gold. But you wait and see now in the next few months. Those awesome Charlotte vs. Sasha matches in NXT that went 15 minutes, will be 5 minute filler matches on Raw, with each diva doing their high spots and that's it.
The way Greg Valentine went about saying it was wrong and very sexist. But I can understand where he is coming from, just how the way he said it.
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Post by lumpy: he's super serial on Aug 22, 2015 11:05:35 GMT -5
Do yourself a favor and watch his matches. There's more on the network than NXT. As others have said, the guy in his prime was magic in the ring. And the ladies you mentioned may have done great work, but they're not anywhere near the level of discussion the Hammer warrants. Besides, if women's wrestling in the WWE was so great prior to a month or two, why market this divas revolution? A revolution implies the old was bad and we need something new. Like I said, his remarks are sexist. You can't say he's no good in the ring though. Sarcasm. Do you know what that is? According to Greg Valentine these Womens Matches who have been Normal Matches are Horrible eventhought these Women had many great Matches. So i made a Joke about them not needing a Dog Collar like him who according to you guys had a "Timeless/Instant Classic" Dog Collar Match ! Did i say the Match was bad? NO! I just hate the comparisons of Normal PRO WRESTLING Matches and GIMMICK Matches. It might was a Classic but i don't care because it makes no sense to compare a Match that involved objects etc etc to a Match that was based on pure In Ring Skills ONLY with out the usage of Objects like in this case a Dog Collar Oh and I never said that he is not good in the Ring. He is! I know that! So you don't need to tell me to do myself a favor! The only one that needs to do himself a favor is Greg Valentine and watch some of the Matches I mentioned! So stop telling me how good he is and that i should not say the things i said etc etc. If he makes stupid and sexist comments like that you need to expect certain people to make comments like that. I'm aware how sarcasm works. I also know what faulty logic is. You showed both in 1 post. Congratulations. The dog collar match ended an intense feud. So a gimmick match is called for. He had other instant classic matches without gimmicks- like Backlund and McDaniel. NONE of the Matches you cited are classics. Don't kid yourself. We get that you like women's wrestling. But those bouts will never be near his level of work. Again- his comments are sexist. His ring work is flawless.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Aug 22, 2015 11:08:45 GMT -5
Sarcasm. Do you know what that is? According to Greg Valentine these Womens Matches who have been Normal Matches are Horrible eventhought these Women had many great Matches. So i made a Joke about them not needing a Dog Collar like him who according to you guys had a "Timeless/Instant Classic" Dog Collar Match ! Did i say the Match was bad? NO! I just hate the comparisons of Normal PRO WRESTLING Matches and GIMMICK Matches. It might was a Classic but i don't care because it makes no sense to compare a Match that involved objects etc etc to a Match that was based on pure In Ring Skills ONLY with out the usage of Objects like in this case a Dog Collar Oh and I never said that he is not good in the Ring. He is! I know that! So you don't need to tell me to do myself a favor! The only one that needs to do himself a favor is Greg Valentine and watch some of the Matches I mentioned! So stop telling me how good he is and that i should not say the things i said etc etc. If he makes stupid and sexist comments like that you need to expect certain people to make comments like that. I'm aware how sarcasm works. I also know what faulty logic is. You showed both in 1 post. Congratulations. The dog collar match ended an intense feud. So a gimmick match is called for. He had other instant classic matches without gimmicks- like Backlund and McDaniel. NONE of the Matches you cited are classics. Don't kid yourself. We get that you like women's wrestling. But those bouts will never be near his level of work. Again- his comments are sexist. His ring work is flawless. We get that you like Greg Valentine, but his ring work wasn't "flawless". I'm not saying he was bad but that is seriously pushing it. Also, some of the women's matches I've seen in 2014 and 2015 were better to me than anything I've ever seen from Valentine.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2015 11:21:54 GMT -5
Greg Valentine would make a perfect witch.
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Post by MADNESS_NH_97 on Aug 22, 2015 11:30:21 GMT -5
Sarcasm. Do you know what that is? According to Greg Valentine these Womens Matches who have been Normal Matches are Horrible eventhought these Women had many great Matches. So i made a Joke about them not needing a Dog Collar like him who according to you guys had a "Timeless/Instant Classic" Dog Collar Match ! Did i say the Match was bad? NO! I just hate the comparisons of Normal PRO WRESTLING Matches and GIMMICK Matches. It might was a Classic but i don't care because it makes no sense to compare a Match that involved objects etc etc to a Match that was based on pure In Ring Skills ONLY with out the usage of Objects like in this case a Dog Collar Oh and I never said that he is not good in the Ring. He is! I know that! So you don't need to tell me to do myself a favor! The only one that needs to do himself a favor is Greg Valentine and watch some of the Matches I mentioned! So stop telling me how good he is and that i should not say the things i said etc etc. If he makes stupid and sexist comments like that you need to expect certain people to make comments like that. I'm aware how sarcasm works. I also know what faulty logic is. You showed both in 1 post. Congratulations. The dog collar match ended an intense feud. So a gimmick match is called for. He had other instant classic matches without gimmicks- like Backlund and McDaniel. NONE of the Matches you cited are classics. Don't kid yourself. We get that you like women's wrestling. But those bouts will never be near his level of work. Again- his comments are sexist. His ring work is flawless. I don't care if the Dog Collar was the Grudge Match for a Intense Feud! It was a Gimmick Match and therefor it should not be compared to Normal Matches. Are you really implying that every Greg Valentine Match is supposed to be better than the Women's Wrestling Matches I mentioned!? And I am the one that is not supposed to kid himself?!
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Post by ~ Cymru ~ on Aug 22, 2015 11:32:24 GMT -5
There was a time when I would agree that the women in WWE were an embarrassment, after Trish, Lita, Victoria, Mickie James etc left, but I wouldnt stop women from wrestling, the ladies in WWE and NXT now are just as good as the men, and even better than some.
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