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Post by Escape The Rules on Aug 22, 2015 13:14:41 GMT -5
Women in wrestling will never draw money, if they were going to it would happened by now. Noone outside of the IWC is moved by this Divas Revolution, and i dig it myself. I don't like that he said it had no place, that was too far, but some of the sloppiest matches I've ever seen were matches. Women's Wrestling has a nice little spot on the card and the women today are solid workers, but don't get mad that a much more important and talented wrestler criticized what has historically been a novelty act.I'm very curious on your definition of important, go on...
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Aug 22, 2015 13:17:08 GMT -5
Erase him for that? That's ridiculous. He is absolutely right women's wrestling is terrible. People are just too damn sensitive, it's sad. If you don't like what he said that's too damn bad, deal with it. Valentine has the right to his own opinion. And people have the right to be racist too if they want to (not that I think it's right). Maybe to you women's wrestling is terrible, but to a fair amount of people, it is something to look forward to. Just because you agree with him doesn't mean that he's "absolutely right" on an opinion. I do agree that he shouldn't be erased from history for having this opinion though.
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TheBadGuyChico
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Post by TheBadGuyChico on Aug 22, 2015 13:17:25 GMT -5
Women in wrestling will never draw money, if they were going to it would happened by now. Noone outside of the IWC is moved by this Divas Revolution, and i dig it myself. I don't like that he said it had no place, that was too far, but some of the sloppiest matches I've ever seen were matches. Women's Wrestling has a nice little spot on the card and the women today are solid workers, but don't get mad that a much more important and talented wrestler criticized what has historically been a novelty act.I'm very curious on your definition of important, go on... Important meaning drew money in big time feuds that were able to stretch long spans, was considered by his peers to be a great worker, and was put in a key spot by multiple big time promoters.
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TheBadGuyChico
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Post by TheBadGuyChico on Aug 22, 2015 13:20:24 GMT -5
On what level have they drawn lol? Valentine and Tito as the b show was drawing 10 to 15 thousand and people were turned away from the July 85 cage match. Valentine and Piper consistently mind you, turned folks away unless they were able to get creative and add a few pillows on the floor or something odd like that. People tried to run Valentine off the side of the highway after the Wahoo angle. He not only drew more money than any of these women individually or collectively, but was a focal point of Crockett and Mcmahonland during boom periods when wrestling was on fire. 700 people is cute, BK NXT is cool, but these pale in comparison to a guy major cities were coming out in droves to see get his ass kicked during a golden age of wrestling popularity. Dude, I literally just posted that a women's wrestling show in Japan sold out the Tokyo Dome. And you can say 700 people is cute, but I also literally just posted that two women are a major part of NXT selling out 13,000. Please don't say that women don't draw. It is pretty inaccurate. Drawing money isn't few and far between, it's a consistent, or it's just an anomaly. Giving the girls all that credit for the bk show is a bit much, there were bigger acts on that show.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Aug 22, 2015 13:24:09 GMT -5
Dude, I literally just posted that a women's wrestling show in Japan sold out the Tokyo Dome. And you can say 700 people is cute, but I also literally just posted that two women are a major part of NXT selling out 13,000. Please don't say that women don't draw. It is pretty inaccurate. Drawing money isn't few and far between, it's a consistent, or it's just an anomaly. Giving the girls all that credit for the bk show is a bit much, there were bigger acts on that show. I said major part, which they are. In NXT, rightfully so, the girls are just as much of a draw as the guys. Finn Balor, Sasha Banks, Samoa Joe, Bayley, Becky Lynch, etc. They are all pretty equal in the reason why NXT shows sell out. Speaking of giving too much credit, someone in here said that Greg Valentine was a flawless worker. That is one of the more absurd things I've ever read.
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Post by kazoosandstreamers on Aug 22, 2015 13:25:54 GMT -5
Yikes...
Oh, Greg.
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Miztery
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Post by Miztery on Aug 22, 2015 13:28:10 GMT -5
WWE will always be a land of the giants. Doesn't matter if HHH is in charge or not. As long as there are men who show massive amounts of strength and massive amounts of athleticism men are always going to get better treatment. Women can put on awesome matches, but they aren't allowed in any kind of stipulation match(Just standard DQ matches) and you won't get those insane moments like Cena picking up Edge and Big Show that show super human like capability. It's awesome people are starting to like the Daniel Bryan/CM Punk style of pure wrestling but that can only go so far. Men are naturally stronger and more athletic and can provide some spots that women simply can't. That's not me being sexist or anything, it's just evolution. I hope the women get their own show so they can display how great they are. Because if you compare them to the men, that's a war they will never win.
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Post by Escape The Rules on Aug 22, 2015 13:38:19 GMT -5
I'm very curious on your definition of important, go on... Important meaning drew money in big time feuds that were able to stretch long spans, was considered by his peers to be a great worker, and was put in a key spot by multiple big time promoters. He may have drew more than a lot of women, but all of that can be said for MANY women in wrestling and MMA, I'm no MMA fan but I'd be willing to guess that Ronda Rousey has drawn more money in the last year than Valentine ever has in his life. I'm sorry but none of what you mentioned makes him "more important" than anyone else in the business. It's almost like you're trying to justify this sexist, misogynistic idiot's comments and it's ridiculous.
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Post by alexgg on Aug 22, 2015 13:42:01 GMT -5
Okay, but anybody in this thread who feels like they have to say "but i'm not sexist" to validate their opinions you are indeed sexist. Stuff like this too: Erase him for that? That's ridiculous. He is absolutely right women's wrestling is terrible. People are just too damn sensitive, it's sad. If you don't like what he said that's too damn bad, deal with it. Valentine has the right to his own opinion. And people have the right to be racist too if they want to (not that I think it's right). You can't possibly be serious.
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| NLS™ |
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Post by | NLS™ | on Aug 22, 2015 13:46:26 GMT -5
Erase him for that? That's ridiculous. He is absolutely right women's wrestling is terrible. People are just too damn sensitive, it's sad. If you don't like what he said that's too damn bad, deal with it. Valentine has the right to his own opinion. And people have the right to be racist too if they want to (not that I think it's right). Maybe to you women's wrestling is terrible, but to a fair amount of people, it is something to look forward to. Just because you agree with him doesn't mean that he's "absolutely right" on an opinion. I do agree that he shouldn't be erased from history for having this opinion though. He IS absolutely right... in my opinion.
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| NLS™ |
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Post by | NLS™ | on Aug 22, 2015 13:52:32 GMT -5
Okay, but anybody in this thread who feels like they have to say "but i'm not sexist" to validate their opinions you are indeed sexist. Stuff like this too: Erase him for that? That's ridiculous. He is absolutely right women's wrestling is terrible. People are just too damn sensitive, it's sad. If you don't like what he said that's too damn bad, deal with it. Valentine has the right to his own opinion. And people have the right to be racist too if they want to (not that I think it's right). You can't possibly be serious. Don't get me wrong, I am NOT a racist. Nor do I condone that but everybody has the right to their own feelings and opinions on any and everything including racism. They should however keep that sh*t to themselves if they are. Unless they want their ass whipped. As far as the women's wrestling comment made by Valentine, that was hilarious. And I love how everybody is all up in arms about it. I mean it's just one mans opinion. so who really gives a sh*t
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Post by Escape The Rules on Aug 22, 2015 13:55:35 GMT -5
I respect Greg Valentine for stating his opinion. The bar to gain your respect must be really low.
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Post by Escape The Rules on Aug 22, 2015 14:05:29 GMT -5
Erase him for that? That's ridiculous. He is absolutely right women's wrestling is terrible. People are just too damn sensitive, it's sad. If you don't like what he said that's too damn bad, deal with it. Valentine has the right to his own opinion. And people have the right to be racist too if they want to (not that I think it's right). I've never seen so much idiocy in such a short post in my life.
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Aug 22, 2015 14:11:40 GMT -5
If the Divas in the WWE could draw money, then fans wouldn't have been cheering "We Want Lesnar" during the Nikki Bella vs. Sasha Banks match on Raw. Instead the fans would be enjoying it.
And you can't use NXT as a comparison. NXT fans think everything is great about NXT. Except for Eva Marie - who is going to be the main diva of the divas division soon so Greg Valentine isn't technically wrong in what he's saying. He just went about it in a really sexist way.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Aug 22, 2015 14:21:57 GMT -5
If the Divas in the WWE could draw money, then fans wouldn't have been cheering "We Want Lesnar" during the Nikki Bella vs. Sasha Banks match on Raw. Instead the fans would be enjoying it. And you can't use NXT as a comparison. NXT fans think everything is great about NXT. Except for Eva Marie - who is going to be the main diva of the divas division soon so Greg Valentine isn't technically wrong in what he's saying. He just went about it in a really sexist way. One crowd since the NXT girls came up chanted something negative. And that's because it was in Minneapolis and they hadn't seen Lesnar yet.
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Aug 22, 2015 14:26:47 GMT -5
If the Divas in the WWE could draw money, then fans wouldn't have been cheering "We Want Lesnar" during the Nikki Bella vs. Sasha Banks match on Raw. Instead the fans would be enjoying it. And you can't use NXT as a comparison. NXT fans think everything is great about NXT. Except for Eva Marie - who is going to be the main diva of the divas division soon so Greg Valentine isn't technically wrong in what he's saying. He just went about it in a really sexist way. One crowd since the NXT girls came up chanted something negative. And that's because it was in Minneapolis and they hadn't seen Lesnar yet. True, but the NXT girls will start having the 5 minute matches soon on Raw and eventually fans will not like them as much. If the WWE is true about having a Divas Revolution, there is this thing called the WWE Network.... why not have a 2 hour live event of just divas matches?? Have the NXT Women's Title defended, have the WWE Divas Title defended, and have the WWE Divas Tag Champions crowned on it since there was talk about doing a tag division. Hell, even have a MITB ladder match for the Divas Title on it.
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maineventheel
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Post by maineventheel on Aug 22, 2015 14:47:40 GMT -5
One crowd since the NXT girls came up chanted something negative. And that's because it was in Minneapolis and they hadn't seen Lesnar yet. True, but the NXT girls will start having the 5 minute matches soon on Raw and eventually fans will not like them as much. If the WWE is true about having a Divas Revolution, there is this thing called the WWE Network.... why not have a 2 hour live event of just divas matches?? Have the NXT Women's Title defended, have the WWE Divas Title defended, and have the WWE Divas Tag Champions crowned on it since there was talk about doing a tag division. Hell, even have a MITB ladder match for the Divas Title on it. Up until recently i've always used the divas match as the bathroom Break for shows
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TheBadGuyChico
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Post by TheBadGuyChico on Aug 22, 2015 14:49:45 GMT -5
Drawing money isn't few and far between, it's a consistent, or it's just an anomaly. Giving the girls all that credit for the bk show is a bit much, there were bigger acts on that show. I said major part, which they are. In NXT, rightfully so, the girls are just as much of a draw as the guys. Finn Balor, Sasha Banks, Samoa Joe, Bayley, Becky Lynch, etc. They are all pretty equal in the reason why NXT shows sell out. Speaking of giving too much credit, someone in here said that Greg Valentine was a flawless worker. That is one of the more absurd things I've ever read. What was flawed about Valentine that wasn't stylistically your opinion? His execution was great, told clear stories because he had a strong fundamental grasp on psychology. Watch his best work, fans were dying for him to be beaten, dying for the babyface to make his comeback. Not one of these NXT girls are in his class. He was sound. If him being low to the ground and mat based bored you, so be it. To say he wasn't a polished tactician is absurd though. People saying he never drew are the best though, yep no one was clamoring to see him and Piper or Toto lol. Even his Dream Team matches with a Green Beefcake were considered highly and drew.
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TheBadGuyChico
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Post by TheBadGuyChico on Aug 22, 2015 14:54:02 GMT -5
Important meaning drew money in big time feuds that were able to stretch long spans, was considered by his peers to be a great worker, and was put in a key spot by multiple big time promoters. He may have drew more than a lot of women, but all of that can be said for MANY women in wrestling and MMA, I'm no MMA fan but I'd be willing to guess that Ronda Rousey has drawn more money in the last year than Valentine ever has in his life. I'm sorry but none of what you mentioned makes him "more important" than anyone else in the business. It's almost like you're trying to justify this sexist, misogynistic idiot's comments and it's ridiculous. Are we gonna get into the concept of inflation when discussing who drew more over the span of different eras? When wrestling was on fire and you were drawing, those hates were phenomenal. Especially when you adjust for inflation to see how much money that would mean today.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2015 14:55:03 GMT -5
1. People probably know more Women that worked for the company than him
2. Someone show me a match he participated in that was classed as good or legendary... Oh wait.
3. Yeah cause A.J Lee, Alicia Fox, Alundra Blayze, Ariel, Beth Phoenix, Becky Lynch, Brie Bella, Bull Nakano, Charlotte Flair, Chyna, Emma, Eve Torres, Gail Kim, Ivory, Jacqueline, Jazz, Jillian Hall, Kharma, Layla, Lita, Luna Vachon, Maxine, Melina, Michelle McCool, Mickie James, Molly Holly, Naomi, Natalya, Nikki Bella, Paige, Sherri Martel, Serena, Trish Stratus, Victoria & Wendi Richter had ZERO wrestling skills in any company they have ever been involved in or had NO talent what so ever....
4. He just mad because the strippers run away in fear when they see him Valentine's series of matches with Backlund in 79 & 80 drew huge houses to the Garden. I don't have the numbers in front of me but I'm pretty sure they were sellouts at a time when Backlund wasn't selling out with many people. Valentine's run with Tito Santana also drew pretty big money and was a headline B house show act for months. To discredit Valentine as no good or legendary matches also dismisses the Starrcade match with Roddy Piper, probably the best chain/strap/rope match that there'll ever be. Alica Fox is one of the worst wrestlers ever and would probably be the worst on the current roster if Cameron wasn't still employed. Chyna's matches were THE DRIZZLING S***S. an 8 look, a 1 on the stick, a 0 in ring. Maxine did absolutely nothing of note He said something dumb. Doesn't mean he never did anything of value. And it certainly doesn't mean modern girls who CAN'T work now somehow surpass him. Fair enough I'll admit I'm wrong because I've only ever really saw 3 or 4 matches of his.
Really? Alicia? She used to be terrible but she has improved a lot. I didn't just mean wrestling skills I said out of all the wrestling company's they've been employed in. I heard she's entertaining in Lucha Underground
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