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Post by c-scope on Apr 17, 2017 10:41:35 GMT -5
Yep. Kane held it for 24 hours. Winning the belt, no matter how long you hold it for, still makes you a champion. Question was more in regards to the fact that Punk was technically stil lthe champion when he won, not because his reign was short. And I'm asking everyone if they count the reign because of it. Not what WWEs record books acknowledge it as. They don't count Inoki winning it but personally I do. I was just curious where everyone stands. punk technically wasn't the champ though because in kayfabe he wasn't under contract when Rey won it so there was no champion.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2017 10:53:09 GMT -5
Question was more in regards to the fact that Punk was technically stil lthe champion when he won, not because his reign was short. And I'm asking everyone if they count the reign because of it. Not what WWEs record books acknowledge it as. They don't count Inoki winning it but personally I do. I was just curious where everyone stands. punk technically wasn't the champ though because in kayfabe he wasn't under contract when Rey won it so there was no champion. So when he was brought back, why was he Champion? Wouldn't that mean his win at Summerslam 2011 would have been him winning the belt back from new champ Cena? The entire thing was a mess.
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Post by Kanenite on Apr 17, 2017 12:17:58 GMT -5
Yeah that whole night was a mess. If Punk wasn't champ, then does that mean he was WWE Champion again (a new reign) once he returned? Did the fact he beat Cena mean he won the title again? Doesn't make any sense.
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Post by c-scope on Apr 17, 2017 12:39:05 GMT -5
punk technically wasn't the champ though because in kayfabe he wasn't under contract when Rey won it so there was no champion. So when he was brought back, why was he Champion? Wouldn't that mean his win at Summerslam 2011 would have been him winning the belt back from new champ Cena? The entire thing was a mess. speaking purely in kayfabe, punk didn't work for WWE at the time so he technical wasn't champ because, how can you be the champion in a company you don't work for, so him leaving essentially vacated the title, so he still had the belt so Vince probably thought "hey this has never happened before let's keep him as champ so there will be two than they can fight over who the true champion is" so they had the champion vs champion match to crown the true champ. I wanna rewatch this whole thing on the network now. Lol
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2017 13:02:48 GMT -5
So when he was brought back, why was he Champion? Wouldn't that mean his win at Summerslam 2011 would have been him winning the belt back from new champ Cena? The entire thing was a mess. speaking purely in kayfabe, punk didn't work for WWE at the time so he technical wasn't champ because, how can you be the champion in a company you don't work for, so him leaving essentially vacated the title, so he still had the belt so Vince probably thought "hey this has never happened before let's keep him as champ so there will be two than they can fight over who the true champion is" so they had the champion vs champion match to crown the true champ. I wanna rewatch this whole thing on the network now. Lol It was all a mess but glad it inspired you to recheck it out.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2017 16:27:05 GMT -5
Yep. Kane held it for 24 hours. Winning the belt, no matter how long you hold it for, still makes you a champion. Question was more in regards to the fact that Punk was technically stil lthe champion when he won, not because his reign was short. And I'm asking everyone if they count the reign because of it. Not what WWEs record books acknowledge it as. They don't count Inoki winning it but personally I do. I was just curious where everyone stands. It's essentially the same thing as UFC having interim champions. The champion at the time, Punk, left with the belt. His contract was up, and storyline wise he left the company with the championship. WWE counts it. It happened, so of course it counts. It counted when Cena won it which led to a champion vs champion match to determine the undisputed champion. Same as UFC Also pretty sure storyline wise Punk said he signed a new deal before Cena won it again. Storyline wise that definitely means Rey's counted. But we all know Punk resigned at or before MITB.
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Post by Darkhawk on Apr 17, 2017 16:56:37 GMT -5
We WON to become WWE Champion, so yes I do count it lol. Now if he found the WWE title and kept it for an hour then no I wouldn't count it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2017 17:00:43 GMT -5
Then do you all count Inoki's win? WWE does not, though he won the belt.
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jakksking1
Main Eventer
Joined on: Feb 2, 2011 14:45:41 GMT -5
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Post by jakksking1 on Apr 17, 2017 17:15:03 GMT -5
The real question is why isn't Ted Dibiase considered a WEE world heaveyweight champion? Purchased that thing fair and square
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Post by HHH316 on Apr 17, 2017 17:29:14 GMT -5
Sure, why not?
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Post by Boy Wonder on Apr 17, 2017 17:35:53 GMT -5
I count him when taking pics of my WWE Champ roster if that counts for anything, haha
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Post by ARUN on Apr 17, 2017 21:21:29 GMT -5
Of course he was champion.
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Post by TurboEddie on Apr 17, 2017 23:09:50 GMT -5
Yes, I do.
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Post by JC Motors on Apr 18, 2017 12:13:29 GMT -5
He was there for 3 more years after that. Doesn't feel like it though. He barely did anything. He was injured for the majority of it
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Post by cordless2016 on Apr 18, 2017 12:17:21 GMT -5
Yeah that whole night was a mess. If Punk wasn't champ, then does that mean he was WWE Champion again (a new reign) once he returned? Did the fact he beat Cena mean he won the title again? Doesn't make any sense. It makes sense. Kayfabe wise Punk won the title at MITB and walked out with the physical title. The WWE held a tournament to crown a new champ (with a new physical title since Punk walked out with the original). Rey won the title and then lost it to Cena, making Cena the new champ. Punk then returned with the original title, but Cena was still recognized as the official champ since punk walked out and they striped him.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2017 13:57:56 GMT -5
Yeah that whole night was a mess. If Punk wasn't champ, then does that mean he was WWE Champion again (a new reign) once he returned? Did the fact he beat Cena mean he won the title again? Doesn't make any sense. It makes sense. Kayfabe wise Punk won the title at MITB and walked out with the physical title. The WWE held a tournament to crown a new champ (with a new physical title since Punk walked out with the original). Rey won the title and then lost it to Cena, making Cena the new champ. Punk then returned with the original title, but Cena was still recognized as the official champ since punk walked out and they striped him. So then Punk winning at Summerslam was him becoming a two time champ? Because he is only acknowledged as a two time champion by WWE.
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Post by Kanenite on Apr 18, 2017 14:05:49 GMT -5
Yeah that whole night was a mess. If Punk wasn't champ, then does that mean he was WWE Champion again (a new reign) once he returned? Did the fact he beat Cena mean he won the title again? Doesn't make any sense. It makes sense. Kayfabe wise Punk won the title at MITB and walked out with the physical title. The WWE held a tournament to crown a new champ (with a new physical title since Punk walked out with the original). Rey won the title and then lost it to Cena, making Cena the new champ. Punk then returned with the original title, but Cena was still recognized as the official champ since punk walked out and they striped him. So you're saying when Punk won at Money in the Bank, he was Champion for one day (or less), it was vacated, Mysterio won it, Cena won it and then at Summerslam Punk became the official champion by beating Cena and started a new reign? On WWE's site it doesn't say that. It says his first reign is listed as July 17th (MITB) - Aug 14th (Summerslam). Then his next WWE Championship win is in November when he beat Del Rio at Survivor Series. They also say Mysterio and Cena were Champions despite Punk holding the championship too.
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Post by A-Rob on Apr 18, 2017 15:11:24 GMT -5
Yes but that reign was short. His World Heavyweight Championship reigns are more notable.
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Post by cordless2016 on Apr 18, 2017 19:23:29 GMT -5
It makes sense. Kayfabe wise Punk won the title at MITB and walked out with the physical title. The WWE held a tournament to crown a new champ (with a new physical title since Punk walked out with the original). Rey won the title and then lost it to Cena, making Cena the new champ. Punk then returned with the original title, but Cena was still recognized as the official champ since punk walked out and they striped him. So you're saying when Punk won at Money in the Bank, he was Champion for one day (or less), it was vacated, Mysterio won it, Cena won it and then at Summerslam Punk became the official champion by beating Cena and started a new reign? On WWE's site it doesn't say that. It says his first reign is listed as July 17th (MITB) - Aug 14th (Summerslam). Then his next WWE Championship win is in November when he beat Del Rio at Survivor Series. They also say Mysterio and Cena were Champions despite Punk holding the championship too. It's like the UFC when the current champs contract runs out and they crown an intern champ. Both are considered the champs until they have a unification match. How it played out on Tv was that they "stripped Punk" the next night, he returns a week later, and they reinstate his title reign while Rey and Cena were interm champs.
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Post by Kanenite on Apr 18, 2017 19:45:11 GMT -5
So you're saying when Punk won at Money in the Bank, he was Champion for one day (or less), it was vacated, Mysterio won it, Cena won it and then at Summerslam Punk became the official champion by beating Cena and started a new reign? On WWE's site it doesn't say that. It says his first reign is listed as July 17th (MITB) - Aug 14th (Summerslam). Then his next WWE Championship win is in November when he beat Del Rio at Survivor Series. They also say Mysterio and Cena were Champions despite Punk holding the championship too. It's like the UFC when the current champs contract runs out and they crown an intern champ. Both are considered the champs until they have a unification match. How it played out on Tv was that they "stripped Punk" the next night, he returns a week later, and they reinstate his title reign while Rey and Cena were interm champs. That makes more sense. Shame WWE couldn't explain it a little better back then, but I can totally buy your view on it.
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