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Post by Gorilla on Jul 17, 2017 22:13:09 GMT -5
Hi all, this question may have been asked before, I searched and couldn't find a thread or answers.
Why could Jakks make so many different figures and Mattel has been so limited to who is signed?
I was never into Jakks, I didn't even release they existed. I only noticed wrestling figures again when Mattel released the legends line.
Thanks for any insight
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Post by Mongo Bears on Jul 17, 2017 22:23:31 GMT -5
Same..I never knew jakks existed. I only got into action figures again when my son was turning 3 and we were at about e26 by then.
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Post by ~*Young $ Money*~ on Jul 17, 2017 22:36:38 GMT -5
Jakks was able to go out and sign their own legends to just a figure deal and make them where Mattel only makes guys who are under some kind of wwe contract if it's legends deal or agent or performer.
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Post by BadGirlRyleigh on Jul 17, 2017 23:19:27 GMT -5
Jakks signed guys and Mattel don't
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Post by Halloween King on Jul 18, 2017 2:12:17 GMT -5
Jakks was able to go out and sign their own legends to just a figure deal and make them where Mattel only makes guys who are under some kind of wwe contract if it's legends deal or agent or performer. This makes sense. I always thought it was because Jakks sold more figures and money talks. I say Jakks sold more because the Classic line made it to wave 28 and only stopped because they lost the license. Where as Mattels Legends line only made it to 5 waves and stopped due to low demand.
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maske2g
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Post by maske2g on Jul 18, 2017 4:40:44 GMT -5
Jakks was able to go out and sign their own legends to just a figure deal and make them where Mattel only makes guys who are under some kind of wwe contract if it's legends deal or agent or performer. This makes sense. I always thought it was because Jakks sold more figures and money talks. I say Jakks sold more because the Classic line made it to wave 28 and only stopped because they lost the license. Where as Mattels Legends line only made it to 5 waves and stopped due to low demand. :D
Quite funny..
One is worth 7 billion dollars.
The other is worth 104 million dollars.
When a company is 70 times bigger than a rival, you can draw your own conclusions about the sales required for a line to be considered successful.
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Post by Mr Ezekiel Jackson If Ya Nasty on Jul 18, 2017 6:00:50 GMT -5
Learning from their previous experience with Jakks, WWE made sure to put in certain provisions and guidelines to protect their interests and bottomline. Such as people getting made being under official WWE contracts & greenlighted by WWE heads before going into production. Bruno Sammartino was still on the outs with WWE when he got signed by Jakks. Also more balanced profit sharing and Mattel not going behind WWE's back with secret deals like the Jakks Pacific/THQ fiasco. Once WWE left Jakks for Mattel, Jakks no longer had the clout and money to keep the almost seperate legends line going.
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Post by Decky on Jul 18, 2017 7:19:49 GMT -5
The toy business in general was healthier when Jakks were making WWE figures. I live in a small town in ireland and I could walk into a shop and there was literally a WALL of Jakks figures. Now I might find an overpriced Cena or Reigns basic.
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Post by Fighter Hayabusa on Jul 18, 2017 7:22:06 GMT -5
I believe when the Legends line was launched Mattel was signing guys who didn't have WWE deals. After the failure of the line they strictly only made figures of those contracted by WWE. If the Legends line was successful early on, I am sure they would have a collection of Superstars that rivals Jakks.
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maske2g
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Post by maske2g on Jul 18, 2017 7:27:09 GMT -5
The toy business in general was healthier when Jakks were making WWE figures. I live in a small town in ireland and I could walk into a shop and there was literally a WALL of Jakks figures. Now I might find an overpriced Cena or Reigns basic. That means they werent selling no? Smyths toys have been smashing it, stock wise for the last 3 years. I think hink the fact that Ireland use to get figures before the Uk, and Smyths changing that, suggests that they just dont sell well in Ireland.
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Post by Decky on Jul 18, 2017 7:31:24 GMT -5
The toy business in general was healthier when Jakks were making WWE figures. I live in a small town in ireland and I could walk into a shop and there was literally a WALL of Jakks figures. Now I might find an overpriced Cena or Reigns basic. That means they werent selling no? Smyths toys have been smashing it, stock wise for the last 3 years. I think hink the fact that Ireland use to get figures before the Uk, and Smyths changing that, suggests that they just dont sell well in Ireland. It wasnt the exact same wall of figures each time, man lol With Smyths selling the most recent Elites and Defining Moments for between £3 and £5 I'd say demand isnt quite what it was. Wrestling was bigger when Jakks had the license, and nobody can deny the action figure market is suffering.
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Post by poindizzle on Jul 18, 2017 7:35:19 GMT -5
This makes sense. I always thought it was because Jakks sold more figures and money talks. I say Jakks sold more because the Classic line made it to wave 28 and only stopped because they lost the license. Where as Mattels Legends line only made it to 5 waves and stopped due to low demand.
Quite funny..
One is worth 7 billion dollars.
The other is worth 104 million dollars.
When a company is 70 times bigger than a rival, you can draw your own conclusions about the sales required for a line to be considered successful.
That's the most level headed explanation I've seen yet. The stakes are so different with big companies. Take Warner Bros. last year with Batman v Superman. That movie made hella money but because it dropped so swiftly from week one to week two and only made 1 gerjillion dollars instead of two then it was a monetary failure (notice I said monetary, I don't care to start any arguments with anyone over the movie, just pure money statistics to back your argument).
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maske2g
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Post by maske2g on Jul 18, 2017 7:45:59 GMT -5
That means they werent selling no? Smyths toys have been smashing it, stock wise for the last 3 years. I think hink the fact that Ireland use to get figures before the Uk, and Smyths changing that, suggests that they just dont sell well in Ireland. It wasnt the exact same wall of figures each time, man lol With Smyths selling the most recent Elites and Defining Moments for between £3 and £5 I'd say demand isnt quite what it was. Wrestling was bigger when Jakks had the license, and nobody can deny the action figure market is suffering. Can you back any of them sweeping statements up with facts please? Im not trying to be arsey I would just like to know how you draw these conclusions. Bare in mind Jakks did WWE for 13 years and started when the company were on the brink of collapse. WWE's share price has doubled since the launch of the network. The network is a success. WWE figures are the biggest selling toy in the world. High price figures like Hot Toys continue to thrive. Star wars black series 40th anniversary figs are like gold dust. You cant base a global view of action figures, based off of one shop. That goes for anywhere in the world.
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Post by Decky on Jul 18, 2017 7:52:31 GMT -5
It wasnt the exact same wall of figures each time, man lol With Smyths selling the most recent Elites and Defining Moments for between £3 and £5 I'd say demand isnt quite what it was. Wrestling was bigger when Jakks had the license, and nobody can deny the action figure market is suffering. Can you back any of them sweeping statements up with facts please? Im not trying to be arsey I would just like to know how you draw these conclusions. Bare in mind Jakks did WWE for 13 years and started when the company were on the brink of collapse. WWE's share price has doubled since the launch of the network. The network is a success. WWE figures are the biggest selling toy in the world. High price figures like Hot Toys continue to thrive. Star wars black series 40th anniversary figs are like gold dust. You cant base a global view of action figures, based off of one shop. That goes for anywhere in the world. Dude. You have sand in your fanny and we're getting way off topic - relax. First off look at Smyths website for my 'sweeping claim' on WWE prices. Companies like Mattel and NECA have clearly and publicly expressed that the toy industry is difficult. Mattels own Bill has said cutting articulation in basics was considered to beat price rises. NECA have said cult and/or lesser known licenses are not an option any more due to increase in costs and lower sales figures as per Randy Falk. Star Wars 40th Anniversary figures were under-produced and limited. They are already officially out of production as per Hasbro. The Vader currently rots on shelves at reduced price whereas Han and R2 were shortpacked leaving unbalanced case assortments as per B B T S and JTA I cant back this up but will edit my post when I can, look at Hot Toys output. Star Wars troop builders, Iron Man variants and cutbacks on accessories. Gone are the days of Expendables, Inglourious Basterds, Edward Scissorhands and others. I'll repeat though, you need to chill man, ok?
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Post by Gorilla on Jul 18, 2017 9:17:18 GMT -5
Learning from their previous experience with Jakks, WWE made sure to put in certain provisions and guidelines to protect their interests and bottomline. Such as people getting made being under official WWE contracts & greenlighted by WWE heads before going into production. Bruno Sammartino was still on the outs with WWE when he got signed by Jakks. Also more balanced profit sharing and Mattel not going behind WWE's back with secret deals like the Jakks Pacific/THQ fiasco. Once WWE left Jakks for Mattel, Jakks no longer had the clout and money to keep the almost seperate legends line going. Thank you. This makes a lot of sense.
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maske2g
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Post by maske2g on Jul 18, 2017 9:22:10 GMT -5
Can you back any of them sweeping statements up with facts please? Im not trying to be arsey I would just like to know how you draw these conclusions. Bare in mind Jakks did WWE for 13 years and started when the company were on the brink of collapse. WWE's share price has doubled since the launch of the network. The network is a success. WWE figures are the biggest selling toy in the world. High price figures like Hot Toys continue to thrive. Star wars black series 40th anniversary figs are like gold dust. You cant base a global view of action figures, based off of one shop. That goes for anywhere in the world. Dude. You have sand in your fanny and we're getting way off topic - relax. First off look at Smyths website for my 'sweeping claim' on WWE prices. Companies like Mattel and NECA have clearly and publicly expressed that the toy industry is difficult. Mattels own Bill has said cutting articulation in basics was considered to beat price rises. NECA have said cult and/or lesser known licenses are not an option any more due to increase in costs and lower sales figures as per Randy Falk. Star Wars 40th Anniversary figures were under-produced and limited. They are already officially out of production as per Hasbro. The Vader currently rots on shelves at reduced price whereas Han and R2 were shortpacked leaving unbalanced case assortments as per B B T S and JTA I cant back this up but will edit my post when I can, look at Hot Toys output. Star Wars troop builders, Iron Man variants and cutbacks on accessories. Gone are the days of Expendables, Inglourious Basterds, Edward Scissorhands and others. I'll repeat though, you need to chill man, ok? I'm chilled, as I said, didn't mean to be arsey. I was intrigued. This is a conversation not a war.
Firstly Mattel. As I said. Its still the biggest selling figure out there. Mattel have being crippled by Barbie (for some years now), which we don't care about at all. Them giving you one liners like the above to justify what they have done for years, and will continue to do for years to come. Hasbro are even worse for it. With every Transformer film the quality of the line has deteriorated DRASTICALLY. Just as transformers have in general for 30 years. For Mattel that is a more difficult proposition with WWE, the figures still have to maintain a look that goes in line with the 7 years of figures, so their changes have to be almost unnoticeable. Despite rising costs, they have managed to broadly keep prices rises below inflation the US for 7 years.
I will raise you one more on Smyths. Look deeper into those Smyths prices at the quantities available. We know that Smyths absolutely went balls deep in the mid 40's (Elite series) Elite 44 especially was abundant in every store. Totally over ordered for xmas. But since then the quantities have been far less. And we know this because you can see the total quantity in all stores in 2 mins of research. S yes, it's great if you want the sole IRS figure out their for £3. But you will have to spend a day travelling to Newcastle to get it....... those price are not real. It's not madness for figures to be reduced 3 months after release.
I actually think them showing the quantities makes awful business sense. I managed to trade the price on Nakamura and got 2 for 32 quid simply because I knew Smyths had 80 in stock.
Cases of Han and R2 are coming later in the year, you can pre order them again on Star action figs and Forbidden planet. They do seem to have been under produced, but I saw a fricking Tuscan Raider go for 70 quid yesterday!!
I'm not going to comment on Neca, because a) their toys mostly suck, and b) they are bootlegged to hell, and c) the bootlegs have QC on par with Neca.
The hot Toys comments are just confirmation bias at it's worst. They secured DC, Marvel, and Star Wars. How Expensive do you think those licences are? They are selling them hand over fist, and we know this because people in the UK are hovering them up for 200 quid a pop with the week pound, which is much pricier than in Hong Kong.
The lesser licences are still being made, but elsewhere. One of their best sculpters started Blitzway, where they have made excellent figures like Fight Club and GHostbusters. Three Zero are making excellent 1/6th figures Storm are making and selling out of excellent 1/6th figures.
Repaints???!??!? Variants???!?!?
Stormtrooper Han, New Sculpt. Jedi Luke. New Sculpt. Hoth Leih. New Sculpt. Iron Pain "Variants" (Completely different figures everytime) sell like hot cakes.
Why do you think they are sticking to 2 billion dollar per film, movie franchises instead of Edward bleeding Scissorhands? Come on dude. They are a business, not a charity.
Hot Toys output in the last 18 months
Rogue One Force Awakens Various Star Wars original trilogy Dr Strange GOTG2 Suicide Squad Wonder WOman Batman Vs Superman Civil War Spiderman Homecoming Pirates of the Caribbean
In Other words the biggest film franchises of the last decade other than the crap one about fast cars....
We can go off topic it's fine, conversations can and will evolve...
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Post by Mr Ezekiel Jackson If Ya Nasty on Jul 18, 2017 9:42:23 GMT -5
Also during the heyday of the WWF/Jakks deal, the toy industry was robust with the overall global economy being strong and kids still playing with toys in high droves. Nowadays, the economy is all over the place from the geopolitical changes/fallout and kids rather play with new technical gadgets than get a toy from the stores. Apples and oranges situation.
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maske2g
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Post by maske2g on Jul 18, 2017 10:22:35 GMT -5
Also during the heyday of the WWF/Jakks deal, the toy industry was robust with the overall global economy being strong and kids still playing with toys in high droves. Nowadays, the economy is all over the place from the geopolitical changes/fallout and kids rather play with new technical gadgets than get a toy from the stores. Apples and oranges situation. I totally agree with the gadgets, but not the economics.
We had two large recessions during the Jakks Era. 2001 and 2007-09 (Which is now known as the GREAT RECESSION!)
Mattel hasn't seen a recession.
Also, in inflationary terms toys were more expensive in the 80' when adjusted for inflation.
I believe a Star Wars figure cost $4, which would be 12.59 in todays money, but 3.75 Rogue one figures were not that expensive.
My only comparison from the 90's is Video Games, A Playstation one for instance would cost $472 in todays money, whereas a regular PS4 was released at $399. A SNES was over $350 bucks, whereas a Switch is $299.
It's not so relevant what I can remember about prices in pounds, because the pound is on its a45e!!
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Post by BadGirlRyleigh on Jul 18, 2017 11:18:38 GMT -5
Also during the heyday of the WWF/Jakks deal, the toy industry was robust with the overall global economy being strong and kids still playing with toys in high droves. Nowadays, the economy is all over the place from the geopolitical changes/fallout and kids rather play with new technical gadgets than get a toy from the stores. Apples and oranges situation. I totally agree with the gadgets, but not the economics.
We had two large recessions during the Jakks Era. 2001 and 2007-09 (Which is now known as the GREAT RECESSION!)
Mattel hasn't seen a recession.
Also, in inflationary terms toys were more expensive in the 80' when adjusted for inflation.
I believe a Star Wars figure cost $4, which would be 12.59 in todays money, but 3.75 Rogue one figures were not that expensive.
My only comparison from the 90's is Video Games, A Playstation one for instance would cost $472 in todays money, whereas a regular PS4 was released at $399. A SNES was over $350 bucks, whereas a Switch is $299.
It's not so relevant what I can remember about prices in pounds, because the pound is on its a45e!!
Mattel started in a recession. It didn't just magically end in 2009
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powerfred3k
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Post by powerfred3k on Jul 18, 2017 16:39:24 GMT -5
What i still don't understand is this, you compare the amount of shelf space from smyths to stores here in the states.
If WWE/Mattel figures are the #1 seller for last year, why can't we get target and walmart expand there shelf space ??
Did Jakks have more than a 4 foot section of space back in the day ?? I think they had more space than that back in the day.
The best way to get more sales is to have more space and variety of product you would think.
Barbie Dolls have pretty much an entire aisle at walmart, target, and toysrus.
Toysrus i will give them credit, they have an expanded wwe section with figures, belts, elite scale rings, etc.
If Smyths in the U.K. can sell wwe figures with that much dedicated space, why can't that be the case here ??
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