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Post by Nivro™ on Nov 6, 2017 11:11:50 GMT -5
Bring back public executions for offenses like these and I'm willing to bet there'll be a decrease in these unfortunate events. This shooting happened about 30 miles from where I'm at. Also, several died in NYC on a bike path after a truck hit them and the mayor called it an act of terror. What's next.. truck control? we have to go back to 5 speed transmissions. Automatic transmissions are just too deadly!
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Post by drifter on Nov 6, 2017 12:54:35 GMT -5
Bring back public executions for offenses like these and I'm willing to bet there'll be a decrease in these unfortunate events. This shooting happened about 30 miles from where I'm at. Also, several died in NYC on a bike path after a truck hit them and the mayor called it an act of terror. What's next.. truck control? I'm really doubting that bringing back public executions would help matters, though. One thing that seems to usually be common with these gunman, is they are either planning to go into these situations planning to die, and just wanting to take as many people out before they do, are they are ready, and willing to die if it comes down to it. The way I look at it, there's several factors that have to be addressed, being, gun control with some common sense, better addressing help for the mentally ill which is what in most of these cases, the gun man are dealing with, and the way the media covers these stories. As soon as the gunman gets identified in any of these shootings, they plaster their faces all over the place, and they get talked about for weeks, sometimes months. For some of these shooters, it then fuels them, as they want to one up the latest shooter, or they want to be remembered like that. Also, the NRA needs to f right off. To me, the NRA is up there with PETA. They're both groups that people join, because they believe in the basic thing of each group. You have some people join PETA wanting to protect innocent animals, you have some people join the NRA wanting to protect second amendment rights. Only problem with, the people in charge of both groups, or the worst representation for those causes, and make the whole look bad. It's basically the people that automatically: 2nd amendment, that means I should have all the guns and any of the guns I want, if not you're trying to violate my rights. Yet, we have the 1st amendment too, but that doesn't mean you can go around saying anything and everything you want, and not get in trouble for it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2017 13:55:47 GMT -5
These happen so often that I don't care anymore. I don't bother to read when, why or how. I just go "Ok." and move on with my day.
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Post by jayrod2009 on Nov 6, 2017 14:03:44 GMT -5
These happen so often that I don't care anymore. I don't bother to read when, why or how. I just go "Ok." and move on with my day. This is a major problem, its almost like the government official that said "America needs to get used to terrorist attacks becoming a part of daily life" knew that most would shrug a shoulder until something happens in their closed proximity. Atleast be alert!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2017 15:00:42 GMT -5
These happen so often that I don't care anymore. I don't bother to read when, why or how. I just go "Ok." and move on with my day. This is a major problem, its almost like the government official that said "America needs to get used to terrorist attacks becoming a part of daily life" knew that most would shrug a shoulder until something happens in their closed proximity. Atleast be alert! Be alert? Why? If I'm in the middle of it crap has already hit the fan. Besides, I live in a country with decent gun control. I don't have to suspect every person I see is a potential terrorist.
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Post by Codyverse: Tag Team Champion on Nov 6, 2017 15:02:42 GMT -5
Bring back public executions for offenses like these and I'm willing to bet there'll be a decrease in these unfortunate events. This shooting happened about 30 miles from where I'm at. Also, several died in NYC on a bike path after a truck hit them and the mayor called it an act of terror. What's next.. truck control? I'm really doubting that bringing back public executions would help matters, though. One thing that seems to usually be common with these gunman, is they are either planning to go into these situations planning to die, and just wanting to take as many people out before they do, are they are ready, and willing to die if it comes down to it. The way I look at it, there's several factors that have to be addressed, being, gun control with some common sense, better addressing help for the mentally ill which is what in most of these cases, the gun man are dealing with, and the way the media covers these stories. As soon as the gunman gets identified in any of these shootings, they plaster their faces all over the place, and they get talked about for weeks, sometimes months. For some of these shooters, it then fuels them, as they want to one up the latest shooter, or they want to be remembered like that. Also, the NRA needs to f right off. To me, the NRA is up there with PETA. They're both groups that people join, because they believe in the basic thing of each group. You have some people join PETA wanting to protect innocent animals, you have some people join the NRA wanting to protect second amendment rights. Only problem with, the people in charge of both groups, or the worst representation for those causes, and make the whole look bad. It's basically the people that automatically: 2nd amendment, that means I should have all the guns and any of the guns I want, if not you're trying to violate my rights. Yet, we have the 1st amendment too, but that doesn't mean you can go around saying anything and everything you want, and not get in trouble for it. I get what you're saying and I can't say I disagree. It is bad, though, that it seems only mass deaths via guns get any real coverage. Of course there's a thread on the lounge about the shooting but no mention of the multiple deaths in NYC via truck because it's not an opportunity to preach gun laws and control. The real issue, as you said, is people of an unstable mind. If it's not murder by guns, then it's truck. Knives. Bombs or anything they can get their hands on. The true issue lies within the murderers and not the objects they use to kill.
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Post by Planktung on Nov 6, 2017 15:20:35 GMT -5
"It's too soon to talk about gun control."
Okay well it's been a few weeks since Vegas, so let's talk about gun control in relation to that incident now.
Or is it still too soon to give enough of a damn to do anything because the attacker wasn't a foreigner?
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Post by Nivro™ on Nov 6, 2017 16:02:16 GMT -5
In 2013 33k people lost their lives due to fire arms.
In 2016 71k people died from a drug overdose
WHEN ARE WE GOING TO MAKE IT HARD FOR PEOPLE TO GET DRUGS WHERE THEY CANT JUST GO TO ANY PHARMACY AND GET HIGH?!?!?!?!?
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Post by screech on Nov 6, 2017 17:08:03 GMT -5
I don't think anyone needs to own an assault rifle. You're not going to hunt with it. It doesn't take a 150+ round mag to take down a deer. You also don't need it for home protection unless you get broken into by Seal Team 6. So please, besides MERICA, and THEY BE TAKIN MA RIGTS AWAY.....I've never heard a logical explanation as to why people feel they need to own assualt rifles. 2nd Amendment doesn't cut it as explanation enough anymore, either. The Constitution and the 2nd Amendment were created at a time when the guns you had took 25 minutes to reload after one shot. Does everyone need a rocket launcher? Personal nuclear bomb collection? How far are we going to take this. - Falsely claims people don't hunt with 'assault rifles' even though they most definitely do. - Uses EXTREMELY high capacity magazine that most people don't have as example. - Claims they're not needed for home protection although many people have used them to save their lives when faced with multiple intruders and many have thwarted intruders from the look of the gun alone, without having to fire shots. - Condescending "MERICA / MA RIGHTS" comment - Claims 2nd Amendment is outdated and doesn't apply to today - Brings up radical straw man argument regarding citizens owning rocket launchers and nuclear weapons. The only things you forgot to mention were the NRA and Donald Trump and you would have hit almost all the talking points lol. In 2013 33k people lost their lives due to fire arms. and 2/3 of those deaths were suicides
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Post by theMOESIAH on Nov 6, 2017 18:45:53 GMT -5
I think the assault rifle argument is a bit of a moot point because what most people have a misconception of what an assault rifle actually is. These are really "assault-style" rifles.
But what is the answer? It's hard to say. Especially when we can't seem to agree on what the problem actually is. Are guns the problem? Is it metal health? Political discourse? It's gong to be impossible to solve something as intricate and complicated as this issue when we can seem to come together as a nation on anything. We speak a different language on each side of the political and ideological spectrum and most of us don't seem to have any interest in hearing someone from the other side out.
As being one of the most egregious offenders of this closed mindedness, I know that it's wrong and we aren't helping anyone. And while we're arguing (usually about the wrong things), more innocent people are dying. I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that everyone we've tried so far isn't working.
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Post by Tim of thee on Nov 6, 2017 20:12:41 GMT -5
Its an old question, but its always relevant . How many of your rights would you give up for safety? Gun control certaintly sounds great at face value, and while it would cut the opportunity in half of someone purchasing a gun for destruction, its the intent that is dangerous. Lif always finds a way, and the recent attack in MYC and the near countless attacks in Europe, nearly anything can be used as a weapon. Where guns are impossible to obtain, an innocent day-to-day item becomes the next "hot topic" to be downsized. Are we all prepared to have mass transit the wave of the future because we must ban vehicles? Will we ban steel work and only have plastic kitchen ware? Will cleaning products be solicited by the government in prescription amounts to lower the risk of explosive manufacturing? My honest opinion is, give up on this PC movement, and allow police and the FBI start profiling again. Allow them to conduct investigations based off suspicion. If X or Y is stocking a cache of ammo, weapons, army surplus, etc, they deserve a peek into their life. I also feel mental evaluation should be a mandatory test in the ability to graduate high school as well as collage. Men and women in the armed forces as well as first responders should have constant evaluation from multiple sources to keep a completely unbiased portfolio. Patriot act
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2017 20:30:29 GMT -5
In 2013 33k people lost their lives due to fire arms. In 2016 71k people died from a drug overdose WHEN ARE WE GOING TO MAKE IT HARD FOR PEOPLE TO GET DRUGS WHERE THEY CANT JUST GO TO ANY PHARMACY AND GET HIGH?!?!?!?!? Yeah! Let's get rid of murder laws too! Criminals find a way to murder anyways, so why bother having a law to entice them from not doing that? Let's also get rid of rape laws! Rapists rape anyways, so we might as well get rid of those laws; cause there's STILL rapists running around! Maybe we should give everyone an AR-15??? I mean if everyone had a gun, these things wouldn't happen! I mean I know I've seen all the Taken films so I definitely know how to kill a bad guy when I see one. Should we also bitch on wrestling toy forums about people getting upset about mass murderers? DANG RIGHT WE SHOULD! THOSE PEOPLE FOR HATING MASS SHOOTINGS AND GUNS! DON'T THEY KNOW I'M A RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNER?
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Post by screech on Nov 6, 2017 21:18:33 GMT -5
In 2013 33k people lost their lives due to fire arms. In 2016 71k people died from a drug overdose WHEN ARE WE GOING TO MAKE IT HARD FOR PEOPLE TO GET DRUGS WHERE THEY CANT JUST GO TO ANY PHARMACY AND GET HIGH?!?!?!?!? Yeah! Let's get rid of murder laws too! Criminals find a way to murder anyways, so why bother having a law to entice them from not doing that? Let's also get rid of rape laws! Rapists rape anyways, so we might as well get rid of those laws; cause there's STILL rapists running around! Maybe we should give everyone an AR-15??? I mean if everyone had a gun, these things wouldn't happen! I mean I know I've seen all the Taken films so I definitely know how to kill a bad guy when I see one. Should we also bitch on wrestling toy forums about people getting upset about mass murderers? DANG RIGHT WE SHOULD! THOSE PEOPLE FOR HATING MASS SHOOTINGS AND GUNS! DON'T THEY KNOW I'M A RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNER? Nivro's post was a joke about drug laws not working, not advocating for removing the actual laws, so I don't really understand your reply joking about removing laws that don't always work. Not a single one of those things would ever be proposed by anyone but nice straw man I guess lol. Nobody would ever advocate for removing existing murder laws or rape laws and nobody would ever suggest that everyone should be given an AR-15 because anyone, without any type of training, could 'kill a bad guy' since they've watched action movies. Also, I don't know anyone who doesn't hate mass shootings. There's not a single normal person who doesn't think this and other shooting deaths are tragic, regardless of their stance on gun control issues, so I don't really understand your point there at the end when you wrote " THOSE PEOPLE FOR HATING MASS SHOOTINGS AND GUNS!" as if anyone would actually feel that way.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2017 21:41:20 GMT -5
Yeah! Let's get rid of murder laws too! Criminals find a way to murder anyways, so why bother having a law to entice them from not doing that? Let's also get rid of rape laws! Rapists rape anyways, so we might as well get rid of those laws; cause there's STILL rapists running around! Maybe we should give everyone an AR-15??? I mean if everyone had a gun, these things wouldn't happen! I mean I know I've seen all the Taken films so I definitely know how to kill a bad guy when I see one. Should we also bitch on wrestling toy forums about people getting upset about mass murderers? DANG RIGHT WE SHOULD! THOSE PEOPLE FOR HATING MASS SHOOTINGS AND GUNS! DON'T THEY KNOW I'M A RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNER? Not a single one of those things has even been proposed by anyone but nice straw man. Nobody has advocated for removing existing murder laws or rape laws and nobody suggested that everyone should be given an AR-15 because anyone, without any type of training, could 'kill a bad guy' since they've watched action movies. Also, I don't know anyone who doesn't hate mass shootings. There's not a single normal person who doesn't think this and other shooting deaths are tragic, regardless of their stance on gun control issues, so I don't really understand your point there at the end when you wrote " THOSE PEOPLE FOR HATING MASS SHOOTINGS AND GUNS!" Okay I don't think you're getting the point of my post. I made those ridiculous proposals in a mocking sense as the guy I quoted made a ridiculous proposal himself countering the idea of doing any sort of law, control, etc to help prevent some of these disasters from happening. If you read his posts throughout this thread, he very clearly is only caring about people making any sort of argument for gun control or any law prohibiting gun ownership, usage, etc. The most common point brought up by the anti gun control crowd is "criminals still get guns anyways so laws won't stop them, they only stop law abiding citizens". That logic is incredibly flawed as it A) makes it seem like there's no point in doing some form of gun control (such as banning the AR-15 or assault rifles) B) ignores the fact that the extreme examples I mentioned in my previous post are laws despite people breaking said laws. There is absolutely no difference between saying "criminals will still get the guns so gun control won't stop them" and "rapists still rape people so rape laws won't stop them". You don't need to be vouching to make rape legal to see that there's a very obvious similarity between those two phrases. Another thing a LOT of the anti gun control crowd bring up is "we need more people with guns to prevent this from happening". The attorney general in Texas even said that after the shooting! I brought up a ridiculous proposal to show how stupid that idea is, because a lot of the people suggesting this think that it's an easy thing to do, cause they see action movies all the time and they think "hey I can do that! I can be a hero!" Thing is, they would be too scared of the situation and run for their lives and hide; not heroically stand up to the shooter like they're Chris Evans. Hell, a guy at the Vegas shooting who was armed knew he couldn't go Arnold on the guy's ass cause if he was to start shooting at the hotel, the police would go after him! You will simply add to the chaos when you have more untrained professionals trying to be a hero. I made an extreme mockery of the people not thinking this is tragic, because there are people who's first concern on social media is about their guns. There is someone in this thread who's completely zoned out of giving two sh*ts about this crisis! I understand being desensitized and not being shocked by these events anymore, but being detached from caring anymore is an actual thing some people are thinking now! Finally, I'd like to say this. It's been almost 5 years since Sandy Hook. 5 years since children were massacred in their school. America has had 5 years to figure out a solution to help tone down these events. These events keep on growing, and no new legislation is passing to combat this. You guys have a party that controls the senate, congress, and the white house. They didn't go right away to writing up laws and making proposals after Las Vegas, and they're not doing anything after this. I hope you are happy with the freedoms you guys have with guns, even if it comes at a cost for some people to go to church, school, the library, the movie theatre, concerts, etc.
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Post by screech on Nov 6, 2017 22:42:32 GMT -5
Okay I don't think you're getting the point of my post. I made those ridiculous proposals in a mocking sense as the guy I quoted made a ridiculous proposal himself countering the idea of doing any sort of law, control, etc to help prevent some of these disasters from happening. If you read his posts throughout this thread, he very clearly is only caring about people making any sort of argument for gun control or any law prohibiting gun ownership, usage, etc. I ended up editing my post before you saw it because I didn't feel like I conveyed the fact that I did understand you were joking but felt it was a little overboard since Nivro's joke was referring to the addition of new laws that won't work opposed to advocating removing any pre-existing laws for not working. In that regard, I felt like your overly ridiculous examples overshadowed your actual argument. Advocating against more regulations and advocating against any and all current regulations at all are completely different things. This is a straw man argument where you're making it seem like there are reputable people advocating the removal of any and all existing gun laws rather than simply opposing the addition of more gun control laws. The argument that gun control measures don't prevent criminals from obtaining firearms is an argument against more/certain gun control measures, not a proposition to dismiss all existing laws on firearms. There isn't anyone reputable suggesting we need to remove all current gun laws such as deregulating so automatic weapons become readily available and allowing anyone and everyone to buy a firearm. Since there isn't any real movement advocating the removal of all gun laws, bringing up the advocation of removing rape laws since rapes still occur as any type of comparison to being against new gun control measures is a moot point and just leads nowhere, in my opinion. I haven't heard anyone suggest that we need more people armed because it's easy to use a gun. Anyone who advocates for more armed individuals is advocating for more trained, armed individuals. There's a major distinction there. There's not a single reputable person who advocates against gun training for anyone who owns a firearm. As for armed citizens stopping active shooters, it has happened plenty of times. It just happened in this particular case where he was scared off by an armed neighbor and it also happened in the Oregon mall shooting a few years back as well. Every situation is different and nobody is saying that an armed person firing back will always work but the possibility of having an armed good person to retaliate is a lot better than having no options at all. This goes both ways. There are people who immediately called for gun control in the wake of this and there are people who immediately got defensive about the idea of more gun control proposals. It doesn't change the fact that any sane person thinks this is tragic, regardless of their beliefs on gun control measures. The only comments I've seen online which seem to lack empathy for the situation were the ones claiming they didn't sympathize since it was in Texas where they probably supported guns and Trump. Do you have a suggestion for a law which would have prevented the Sandy Hook shooting that doesn't involve completely outlawing semi-automatic weapons?
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Nov 7, 2017 0:27:31 GMT -5
"It's too soon to talk about gun control." Okay well it's been a few weeks since Vegas, so let's talk about gun control in relation to that incident now. Or is it still too soon to give enough of a damn to do anything because the attacker wasn't a foreigner? Unfortunately, there's never a good time to talk about sensible gun control for too many Americans. I saw a recent Pew Research Poll where 1/2 of gun owners link their ownership of guns to their identity. There were "Gun Appreciation Days" in numerous locations across the country a couple of years ago. People with this kind of dangerous affection for guns will never accept the idea that guns like the AR-15 are weapons of war, bump stocks and high capacity magazines have no defensible function in a civilian population, and that the Second Amendment was never meant to be justification for people bringing any kind of weapon that they want into public areas. Their default is always, "It's mental illness that is to blame."
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Post by Tim of thee on Nov 7, 2017 1:04:03 GMT -5
screech total door-to-door confiscation is the goal
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Post by TurboEddie on Nov 7, 2017 3:33:23 GMT -5
Mass shootings have become commonplace, and sadly, I’m becoming numb to them.
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Post by jayrod2009 on Nov 7, 2017 5:25:17 GMT -5
screech total door-to-door confiscation is the goal Will these people happen to have arm bands?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2017 8:57:57 GMT -5
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