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Post by k5 on Mar 22, 2020 15:20:16 GMT -5
By all means, knock yourself out. That still doesn't speak for everyone though. As I keep saying I don't like Gronk either, but to sit here and pretend he's not popular or simply refusing to acknowledge that some people may actually be interested, is foolish.
And yes, YouTube numbers are not a perfect scale. But it's far better than assuming a few comments on some forums speaks for everyone who watching WWE. i'm not saying a few comments. read the general responses. no one is marking out over this. the whole point of it is entertainment. if wwe is only using this celebrity to accomplish getting media and get outside temporary eyes on the product, then why would fans WANT this? you really think if mr t had gotten a bunch of boos when he first showed up that they'd still team him with hogan at mania? that is the type of tone deafness we've been dealing with in the wwe for some time, rather apologists such as yourself are willing to admit it or not.
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shenmue
Main Eventer
Joined on: Oct 30, 2007 10:12:45 GMT -5
Posts: 2,719
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Post by shenmue on Mar 22, 2020 15:27:38 GMT -5
Gronk is terrible, no debate needed.
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Post by marino13 on Mar 22, 2020 15:28:35 GMT -5
By all means, knock yourself out. That still doesn't speak for everyone though. As I keep saying I don't like Gronk either, but to sit here and pretend he's not popular or simply refusing to acknowledge that some people may actually be interested, is foolish.
And yes, YouTube numbers are not a perfect scale. But it's far better than assuming a few comments on some forums speaks for everyone who watching WWE. i'm not saying a few comments. read the general responses. no one is marking out over this. the whole point of it is entertainment. if wwe is only using this celebrity to accomplish getting media and get outside temporary eyes on the product, then why would fans WANT this? you really think if mr t had gotten a bunch of boos when he first showed up that they'd still team him with hogan at mania? that is the type of tone deafness we've been dealing with in the wwe for some time, rather apologists such as yourself are willing to admit it or not.
But comments on Reddit are only a few compared to the many that watch WWE. That doesn't speak for everyone.
And I'm not saying fans have to want this, or that everyone should be marking out. I'm simply stating that it's ALWAYS been a part of wrestling. Not just WWE. It's part of the business whether we like it or not.
When did Gronk get a bunch of boos? He's had two brief moments in WWE. One was during the WM pre-show and one had no one in the crowd. So where's the tone deafness exactly?
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Post by marino13 on Mar 22, 2020 15:29:54 GMT -5
Gronk is terrible, no debate needed. That's not what we're debating. I can't stand him.
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Post by k5 on Mar 22, 2020 15:36:49 GMT -5
i'm not saying a few comments. read the general responses. no one is marking out over this. the whole point of it is entertainment. if wwe is only using this celebrity to accomplish getting media and get outside temporary eyes on the product, then why would fans WANT this? you really think if mr t had gotten a bunch of boos when he first showed up that they'd still team him with hogan at mania? that is the type of tone deafness we've been dealing with in the wwe for some time, rather apologists such as yourself are willing to admit it or not. But comments on Reddit are only a few compared to the many that watch WWE. That doesn't speak for everyone.
And I'm not saying fans have to want this, or that everyone should be marking out. I'm simply stating that it's ALWAYS been a part of wrestling. Not just WWE. It's part of the business whether we like it or not.
When did Gronk get a bunch of boos? He's had two brief moments in WWE. One was during the WM pre-show and one had no one in the crowd. So where's the tone deafness exactly?
you can piss down my back and tell me it's raining all you want, but there is a way to have celebrities where it actually adds to the product instead of waters it down or straight up damaging the others involved. the fact that they put him right off the bat in a segment with baron corbin is enough of a sign of absolutely cringest garbage to come for me, but if you're holding out hopes then all the power to you. my tone deafness comment was general: the rock's confused look holding roman's hand up at rumble, the wwe's absolute fails at getting roman over, their inability at growing stars or properly developing trends without killing them off, their forced narratives on rewriting history as if cena and roman weren't heavily booed, their attempted dismissal of daniel bryan, and it goes on and on and on and on. truth is, all you wwe diehards hate to put aew over in any way and love to criticize it, but if the wwe's product hadn't gone to the absolute craps over the years there wouldn't be an opportunity in the market for a company like aew to even exist. aew exists because of wwe's failure to entertain wrestling fans. but yeah, throw them numbers, tell me their profits.
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Post by marino13 on Mar 22, 2020 15:58:57 GMT -5
But comments on Reddit are only a few compared to the many that watch WWE. That doesn't speak for everyone.
And I'm not saying fans have to want this, or that everyone should be marking out. I'm simply stating that it's ALWAYS been a part of wrestling. Not just WWE. It's part of the business whether we like it or not.
When did Gronk get a bunch of boos? He's had two brief moments in WWE. One was during the WM pre-show and one had no one in the crowd. So where's the tone deafness exactly?
you can piss down my back and tell me it's raining all you want, but there is a way to have celebrities where it actually adds to the product instead of waters it down or straight up damaging the others involved. the fact that they put him right off the bat in a segment with baron corbin is enough of a sign of absolutely cringest garbage to come for me, but if you're holding out hopes then all the power to you. my tone deafness comment was general: the rock's confused look holding roman's hand up at rumble, the wwe's absolute fails at getting roman over, their inability at growing stars or properly developing trends without killing them off, their forced narratives on rewriting history as if cena and roman weren't heavily booed, their attempted dismissal of daniel bryan, and it goes on and on and on and on. truth is, all you wwe diehards hate to put aew over in any way and love to criticize it, but if the wwe's product hadn't gone to the absolute craps over the years there wouldn't be an opportunity in the market for a company like aew to even exist. aew exists because of wwe's failure to entertain wrestling fans. but yeah, throw them numbers, tell me their profits. Whether wrestling fans like it or not, or whether someone pisses on you or not, celebrities can work. Bischoff has openly stated that he knew the war was over when he saw Tyson on WWE tv. Now I'm not saying Gronk is going to shoot the numbers through the roof, but if it's gets some outside eyes on the product whether it's through clips on ESPN or Fox Sports, then it served it purpose. As for Corbin being involved with Gronk, I'm not going to assume his booking for the next 7 months based off that 4 minutes in the ring with Corbin. With the limited crew they had, I just assumed that was to set up his match with Elias at WM.
Not sure where this hating to put AEW over thing came from. All I said about them was that they used Rick & Morty. Wasn't criticizing it, just that I understood it. That's been my point from the get go. Eyes on the product is always good. And whether I like it or not, I get it.
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Post by k5 on Mar 22, 2020 16:10:02 GMT -5
you can piss down my back and tell me it's raining all you want, but there is a way to have celebrities where it actually adds to the product instead of waters it down or straight up damaging the others involved. the fact that they put him right off the bat in a segment with baron corbin is enough of a sign of absolutely cringest garbage to come for me, but if you're holding out hopes then all the power to you. my tone deafness comment was general: the rock's confused look holding roman's hand up at rumble, the wwe's absolute fails at getting roman over, their inability at growing stars or properly developing trends without killing them off, their forced narratives on rewriting history as if cena and roman weren't heavily booed, their attempted dismissal of daniel bryan, and it goes on and on and on and on. truth is, all you wwe diehards hate to put aew over in any way and love to criticize it, but if the wwe's product hadn't gone to the absolute craps over the years there wouldn't be an opportunity in the market for a company like aew to even exist. aew exists because of wwe's failure to entertain wrestling fans. but yeah, throw them numbers, tell me their profits. Whether wrestling fans like it or not, or whether someone pisses on you or not, celebrities can work. Bischoff has openly stated that he knew the war was over when he saw Tyson on WWE tv. Now I'm not saying Gronk is going to shoot the numbers through the roof, but if it's gets some outside eyes on the product whether it's through clips on ESPN or Fox Sports, then it served it purpose. As for Corbin being involved with Gronk, I'm not going to assume his booking for the next 7 months based off that 4 minutes in the ring with Corbin. With the limited crew they had, I just assumed that was to set up his match with Elias at WM.
Not sure where this hating to put AEW over thing came from. All I said about them was that they used Rick & Morty. Wasn't criticizing it, just that I understood it. That's been my point from the get go. Eyes on the product is always good. And whether I like it or not, I get it.
i literally said in what you quoted that there is a way to use celebrities that adds to the product instead of watering it down or damaging others. celebrities, used in proper context, are great. wwe's usage of them has been dreary to dreadful as of late, if not outright cringe. as far as the aew comment, maybe reread my post as to what led me to say it and it will make more sense to you. you're defending a crappy product. aew is a result of the wwe being a crappy product.
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Post by marino13 on Mar 22, 2020 16:23:11 GMT -5
Whether wrestling fans like it or not, or whether someone pisses on you or not, celebrities can work. Bischoff has openly stated that he knew the war was over when he saw Tyson on WWE tv. Now I'm not saying Gronk is going to shoot the numbers through the roof, but if it's gets some outside eyes on the product whether it's through clips on ESPN or Fox Sports, then it served it purpose. As for Corbin being involved with Gronk, I'm not going to assume his booking for the next 7 months based off that 4 minutes in the ring with Corbin. With the limited crew they had, I just assumed that was to set up his match with Elias at WM.
Not sure where this hating to put AEW over thing came from. All I said about them was that they used Rick & Morty. Wasn't criticizing it, just that I understood it. That's been my point from the get go. Eyes on the product is always good. And whether I like it or not, I get it.
i literally said in what you quoted that there is a way to use celebrities that adds to the product instead of watering it down or damaging others. celebrities, used in proper context, are great. wwe's usage of them has been dreary to dreadful as of late, if not outright cringe. as far as the aew comment, maybe reread my post as to what led me to say it and it will make more sense to you. you're defending a crappy product. aew is a result of the wwe being a crappy product. No you said us "wwe diehards hate to put aew over in any way and love to criticize it". That's not what this was ever about. This was never a WWE vs AEW topic. You're turning it into something it never was.
This was never suppose to be a "rah rah WWE is the greatest" comment either. This was never about me defending a crappy product or praising the use of Gronk. I was simply justifying the use of celebrities in wrestling by bring up years of examples while showing that every promotion has done it. But you're so dead set on attacking me and WWE, you only read what you wanted to read.
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Post by k5 on Mar 22, 2020 16:32:08 GMT -5
i literally said in what you quoted that there is a way to use celebrities that adds to the product instead of watering it down or damaging others. celebrities, used in proper context, are great. wwe's usage of them has been dreary to dreadful as of late, if not outright cringe. as far as the aew comment, maybe reread my post as to what led me to say it and it will make more sense to you. you're defending a crappy product. aew is a result of the wwe being a crappy product. No you said us "wwe diehards hate to put aew over in any way and love to criticize it". That's not what this was ever about. This was never a WWE vs AEW topic. You're turning it into something it never was.
This was never suppose to be a "rah rah WWE is the greatest" comment either. This was never about me defending a crappy product or praising the use of Gronk. I was simply justifying the use of celebrities in wrestling by bring up years of examples while showing that every promotion has done it. But you're so dead set on attacking me and WWE, you only read what you wanted to read.
i've repeatedly told you that while celebrities have been used, the way that they're used is just as if not more important than anything. you are using the 'celebrities have always been in wrestling' as a way to be complacent about wwe's usage of them. that's how you're defending them. and i'm disagreeing with you. there is a way to properly use celebrites and there is a way to improperly use celebrities. as you said, tyson was an absolute major play in the wcw vs wwf. on the flipside, most in the business, and out of it, admit that david arquette should never have won the wcw title. so there are ways to do it and there are ways not to do it. just being a celebrity doesn't give you a magical pass that you should be featured in wrestling, if there is zero proper context or excitement or build for it. if tyson had came in and just knocked out austin, it wouldn't have been a good decision. it was the way they used him that furthered the product. gronk furthers nothing but my desire to change the channel. you don't feel that they've misused him so far. fair enough. also, i'm free to make that aew comment if i want to. that doesn't mean i'm 'turning this thread into something it never was'. simply means i made what i felt was a relevant point to the topic at hand and the forum in general.
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Post by marino13 on Mar 22, 2020 16:47:03 GMT -5
No you said us "wwe diehards hate to put aew over in any way and love to criticize it". That's not what this was ever about. This was never a WWE vs AEW topic. You're turning it into something it never was.
This was never suppose to be a "rah rah WWE is the greatest" comment either. This was never about me defending a crappy product or praising the use of Gronk. I was simply justifying the use of celebrities in wrestling by bring up years of examples while showing that every promotion has done it. But you're so dead set on attacking me and WWE, you only read what you wanted to read.
i've repeatedly told you that while celebrities have been used, the way that they're used is just as if not more important than anything. you are using the 'celebrities have always been in wrestling' as a way to be complacent about wwe's usage of them. that's how you're defending them. and i'm disagreeing with you. there is a way to properly use celebrites and there is a way to improperly use celebrities. as you said, tyson was an absolute major play in the wcw vs wwf. on the flipside, most in the business, and out of it, admit that david arquette should never have won the wcw title. so there are ways to do it and there are ways not to do it. just being a celebrity doesn't give you a magical pass that you should be featured in wrestling, if there is zero proper context or excitement or build for it. if tyson had came in and just knocked out austin, it wouldn't have been a good decision. it was the way they used him that furthered the product. gronk furthers nothing but my desire to change the channel. you don't feel that they've misused him so far. fair enough. also, i'm free to make that aew comment if i want to. that doesn't mean i'm 'turning this thread into something it never was'. simply means i made what i felt was a relevant point to the topic at hand and the forum in general.
He's been on WWE TV for less than five minutes! In an empty building!!
I have no clue how they are going to book him. Or what he signed on for. Or if he's going to have 2 matches or 50. I'm not pretending to. I'm just not going to get mad about the next year's worth of booking because him and Mojo tripped Corbin.
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Post by k5 on Mar 22, 2020 16:55:37 GMT -5
i've repeatedly told you that while celebrities have been used, the way that they're used is just as if not more important than anything. you are using the 'celebrities have always been in wrestling' as a way to be complacent about wwe's usage of them. that's how you're defending them. and i'm disagreeing with you. there is a way to properly use celebrites and there is a way to improperly use celebrities. as you said, tyson was an absolute major play in the wcw vs wwf. on the flipside, most in the business, and out of it, admit that david arquette should never have won the wcw title. so there are ways to do it and there are ways not to do it. just being a celebrity doesn't give you a magical pass that you should be featured in wrestling, if there is zero proper context or excitement or build for it. if tyson had came in and just knocked out austin, it wouldn't have been a good decision. it was the way they used him that furthered the product. gronk furthers nothing but my desire to change the channel. you don't feel that they've misused him so far. fair enough. also, i'm free to make that aew comment if i want to. that doesn't mean i'm 'turning this thread into something it never was'. simply means i made what i felt was a relevant point to the topic at hand and the forum in general. He's been on WWE TV for less than five minutes! In an empty building!!
I have no clue how they are going to book him. Or what he signed on for. Or if he's going to have 2 matches or 50. I'm not pretending to. I'm just not going to get mad about the next year's worth of booking because him and Mojo tripped Corbin.
I saw how he was booked in 2017 to help his friend make what was a cool idea into a joke match to get their celebrity moment in before not doing anything with the guy who won the match. I’ve seen how WWE has handled celebrities in the past 10+ years. it’s an educated guess on my part. anyways, i think you’d agree we’ve reached full circle on this and are only going to repeat ourselves. you’re not a fan of his but are going to hold off before cursing him off your tv. I don’t trust wwe to follow through whatsoever in any productive way since they’ve generally failed in that capacity for a long time running imo. my real point was simple. yes, celebrities have always been in mainstream wrestling - but that doesn’t negate context and what they contribute. I give you kudos on allowing the debate. this forum has generally locked up most types of disagreements over the last few years and at times imo stifles conversation. despite disagreeing with you I enjoyed the back and forth, rather that was mutual or not. ;-)
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Post by marino13 on Mar 22, 2020 17:10:31 GMT -5
He's been on WWE TV for less than five minutes! In an empty building!!
I have no clue how they are going to book him. Or what he signed on for. Or if he's going to have 2 matches or 50. I'm not pretending to. I'm just not going to get mad about the next year's worth of booking because him and Mojo tripped Corbin.
I saw how he was booked in 2017 to help his friend make what was a cool idea into a joke match to get their celebrity moment in before not doing anything with the guy who won the match. I’ve seen how WWE has handled celebrities in the past 10+ years. it’s an educated guess on my part. anyways, i think you’d agree we’ve reached full circle on this and are only going to repeat ourselves. you’re not a fan of his but are going to hold off before cursing him off your tv. I don’t trust wwe to follow through whatsoever in any productive way since they’ve generally failed in that capacity for a long time running imo. my real point was simple. yes, celebrities have always been in mainstream wrestling - but that doesn’t negate context and what they contribute. I give you kudos on allowing the debate. this forum has generally locked up most types of disagreements over the last few years and at times imo stifles conversation. despite disagreeing with you I enjoyed the back and forth, rather that was mutual or not. ;-) I live my life a quarter mile at a time as more of a wait and see as opposed to damning things before they happen. But that's just me. Yeah, this ate up some time while stuck in the house. So I'll take it.
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Post by TheSystem 1.5 on Mar 23, 2020 1:34:22 GMT -5
They should’ve signed Kronk
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Post by marino13 on Mar 23, 2020 11:22:34 GMT -5
How do we know this is long term? How do we know "he will be pushed heavily"? He's been on once for five minutes. We have no idea what he signed up for or what they have planned for him.
Why does having Gronk around mean they can't still try to build up their own talent? Doesn't have to be one or the other.
I'm not a fan of Gronk & I don't care if he ever comes back or not. But as I was saying complaining about celebrities in wrestling is a moot point. They've always been around.
You’re giving the WWE too much credit. When in the last 10 years have they built their own Stars to success outside of D-Bry or Punk (who they also tried to sabotage both). The only internal guy they try to push hard is Roman and we know how that has gone (and to the detriment of their other home grown talent). Brock came in after a decade outside of the company and became their Shao Khan. Ronda came in and ran through every woman on the roster in 1 year. Tyson Furry came in and was immediately given a win over Bruan (who despite booking is seen as a credit top midcarder at worst). Whether short or long term, what from the WWE’s recent past tells you that Gronk won’t be dominating the card in due time? We know he’ll likely go over Corbin soon after Smackdown. Probably take the tag title with a crappy Mojo at some point, and if it’s a long term deal, who’s to say we won’t get Gronk going for a midcard or world title at some point. Celebrities have always been used by promotions, but many have been used to the rest of the rosters detriment. Sorry, I must have missed this till now... I'm not giving them credit, but I'm also not damning them for something that hasn't happened yet either.
His five minutes on SD is not enough to convince me he'll be WWE champion in June.
We have no idea what kind of deal he signed. He might have one match for all we know.
Gronk is not Ronda or Brock. Both had MMA/wrestling experience. So that's not a sign that Gronk will be dominating the entire men's division either.
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Mar 23, 2020 19:00:35 GMT -5
I'm just not going to get mad about the next year's worth of booking because him and Mojo tripped Corbin. Disgusting comment. How dare you say things like that. You’re supposed to be a mod!
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Post by Mongo Bears on Mar 24, 2020 13:10:49 GMT -5
Gronk sucks Big fan of him on the football field though
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wheeljack83
Main Eventer
Joined on: Feb 16, 2018 23:52:48 GMT -5
Posts: 1,353
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Post by wheeljack83 on Mar 24, 2020 20:08:48 GMT -5
I hope King Corbin destroys Gronk. Especially after he made 69 jokes following Smackdown.
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Post by The Natural Eddy Valintino on Mar 25, 2020 12:28:54 GMT -5
I saw Gronk's segment. Eh, still too early to predict how they'll book him, but if it were booking, I would book Gronk and Mojo as a douche heel tag team. The way Gronk acted, he seemed like a douche who I bet fans would want to see get his ass kicked. IMO that's the route they should go, but we'll wait and see how he's booked before we get our panties in a bunch.
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Post by LA Times on Apr 21, 2020 16:09:00 GMT -5
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Post by rkmo: 9 Month Warning on Apr 21, 2020 16:12:38 GMT -5
Cue "Do You Miss Rob Gronkowski?" thread lol
Edit: Since I created this thread, I made it happen.
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