Sims
Main Eventer
It's kinda cool to be back on here after years away.
Joined on: Aug 21, 2006 17:58:49 GMT -5
Posts: 2,713
|
Post by Sims on Oct 9, 2008 19:22:50 GMT -5
We don't want to get into whose fault it is it argument do we. Any way I just think worse things have happened to people and gotten over it. Rise above and be a man.
|
|
|
|
Post by spawnsyxx9 on Oct 9, 2008 19:34:11 GMT -5
Bret Hart is one of the biggest self marks next to Hulk Hogan.
|
|
|
|
Post by hitmanclub on Oct 9, 2008 19:44:29 GMT -5
We don't want to get into whose fault it is it argument do we. Any way I just think worse things have happened to people and gotten over it. Rise above and be a man. such as?? i would like to hear this?? some examples..and explane how there "over it" cuz i still don't know what that means. |
|
|
|
Post by Johnny Wrestling on Oct 9, 2008 19:49:54 GMT -5
It does not change my view of HBK at all. I know HBK was not the greatest guy in the world back then, but he has changed. He is not like that anymore. Bret is still the same ol' crybaby he always was. He has this thirst to be right all the time, and a desire for people to side with him. He is very bitter and it is quite annoying. He's old, and all he can remember is the MSJ (which was his own fault for refusing to give up the belt when HE WAS LEAVING! He made the decision to go to WCW. Vince made the decision to take the belt of Bret at SS, but Bret did not want to. You can't do that. It doesn't work. Bret was too full of himself to lose the belt the right way, so Vince and HBK did what they had to do. Not necessarily a honest thing to do, but Bret leaving for WCW wasn't the nicest thing to Vince, either...both were business decisions, and both men did what they thought was necessary. It is over, Bret. Stop whining. We do not feel sorry for you. He could refuse since he had creative control. Also, Vince told Bret some time before that if he wanted to leave for WCW, he could do it, but Bret refused until 1997. Vince and HBK didn't had to do anything, but wait until the night after were Bret was going to forfeit the title, and even Vince agreed with that, but he backstabbed him with the screwjob. Also, if they're so sorry about that, why over the years they did storylines with it? Bottomline:  Shawn Michaels |
|
Sims
Main Eventer
It's kinda cool to be back on here after years away.
Joined on: Aug 21, 2006 17:58:49 GMT -5
Posts: 2,713
|
Post by Sims on Oct 9, 2008 20:03:19 GMT -5
We don't want to get into whose fault it is it argument do we. Any way I just think worse things have happened to people and gotten over it. Rise above and be a man. such as?? i would like to hear this?? some examples..and explane how there "over it" cuz i still don't know what that means. I wasn't talking about wrestling just things in general. |
|
|
|
Post by HugoOne on Oct 9, 2008 20:12:45 GMT -5
Nobody is right and nobody is wrong in the situation. It's just everyone did something differently. It's all a matter of opinion.
The book changed my view of Bret Hart. He's got quite the ego.
|
|
|
|
Post by layton on Oct 9, 2008 21:03:39 GMT -5
It does not change my view of HBK at all. I know HBK was not the greatest guy in the world back then, but he has changed. He is not like that anymore. Bret is still the same ol' crybaby he always was. He has this thirst to be right all the time, and a desire for people to side with him. He is very bitter and it is quite annoying. He's old, and all he can remember is the MSJ ( which was his own fault for refusing to give up the belt when HE WAS LEAVING! He made the decision to go to WCW. Vince made the decision to take the belt of Bret at SS, but Bret did not want to. You can't do that. It doesn't work. Bret was too full of himself to lose the belt the right way, so Vince and HBK did what they had to do. Not necessarily a honest thing to do, but Bret leaving for WCW wasn't the nicest thing to Vince, either...both were business decisions, and both men did what they thought was necessary. It is over, Bret. Stop whining. We do not feel sorry for you. ^ Wow, incorrect. Bret was willing to drop the belt to ANYONE but HBK. Bret ever wanted to forfeit the belt the next night on RAW (I believe that was the plan had the MSJ not had happened). Also, Vince told Bret to go to WCW because the WWF at the time could not pay him the money on his contract due to the poor business condition the company was in. Thus Vince HELPED Bret leave the WWF to go to WCW. Here is a link, scroll down a little bit, and do yourself a favor and read the facts regarding the MSJ www.100megsfree4.com/wiawrestling/pages/wwf/wwemontreal.htmNo, he was not willing to lose the title in Montreal at all. He did not think Canada could handle him losing. How full of yourself can you be? I never said that it was Hart's plan originally to go to WCW, BUT he ultimately had to make the choice to go--NOT Vince. There is no reason for him to need to come to the ring on RAW and forfeit the belt. He should lose it in the ring. Some of the things I said may have been a little off, but your story is not concrete either. It is really all speculation...I cited one side, and you cited the other. |
|
Sims
Main Eventer
It's kinda cool to be back on here after years away.
Joined on: Aug 21, 2006 17:58:49 GMT -5
Posts: 2,713
|
Post by Sims on Oct 9, 2008 21:07:07 GMT -5
^ Wow, incorrect. Bret was willing to drop the belt to ANYONE but HBK. Bret ever wanted to forfeit the belt the next night on RAW (I believe that was the plan had the MSJ not had happened). Also, Vince told Bret to go to WCW because the WWF at the time could not pay him the money on his contract due to the poor business condition the company was in. Thus Vince HELPED Bret leave the WWF to go to WCW. Here is a link, scroll down a little bit, and do yourself a favor and read the facts regarding the MSJ www.100megsfree4.com/wiawrestling/pages/wwf/wwemontreal.htmNo, he was not willing to lose the title in Montreal at all. He did not think Canada could handle him losing. How full of yourself can you be? I never said that it was Hart's plan originally to go to WCW, BUT he ultimately had to make the choice to go--NOT Vince. There is no reason for him to need to come to the ring on RAW and forfeit the belt. He should lose it in the ring. Some of the things I said may have been a little off, but your story is not concrete either. It is really all speculation...I cited one side, and you cited the other. As Ted Dibase said"Why does it matter where you lose the title,the whole worlds watching anyway." |
|
|
|
Post by hitmanclub on Oct 9, 2008 21:26:38 GMT -5
such as?? i would like to hear this?? some examples..and explane how there "over it" cuz i still don't know what that means. I wasn't talking about wrestling just things in general. i know..what is the def. of someone getting over something??? Bret made up with vince, he shook his hand. He did the dvd with him....in my mind he is over it. As much as someone can be Anyway Bret still had a month left on his contract and wanted to drop the title to Austin.... |
|
Sims
Main Eventer
It's kinda cool to be back on here after years away.
Joined on: Aug 21, 2006 17:58:49 GMT -5
Posts: 2,713
|
Post by Sims on Oct 9, 2008 21:27:57 GMT -5
I wasn't talking about wrestling just things in general. i know..what is the def. of someone getting over something??? Bret made up with vince, he shook his hand. He did the dvd with him....in my mind he is over it. As much as someone can be Anyway Bret still had a month left on his contract and wanted to drop the title to Austin.... Then why can't he forgive HBK? I mean I know the story but don't really care lol. |
|
|
|
Post by jericholic226 on Oct 9, 2008 21:33:24 GMT -5
noones going to change my mind about shawn especially not the bitter brett hart
|
|
missedgehead
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jun 14, 2008 22:24:41 GMT -5
Posts: 3,178
|
Post by missedgehead on Oct 9, 2008 21:34:03 GMT -5
Owen, like others here have said, died tragically in a freak accident. I understand that Bret is upset. He will never see Owen again. I understand his being upset with Vince about THAT. I understand that. The death of a family member under Vince's watch is something Bret has every right to be upset about. That I GET. What I DON'T sympathize with Bret with is his constant burying everyone on the roster and his hatred that he evidently still has for HHH and HBK. He has this attitude that he thinks he is the ONLY one who has ever had great matches. Whatever. Yeah, Flair, HHH, Edge,HBK, Taker.....sure they NEVER had great matches. Whatever. I would take what he says seriously if he were not so bitter towards the past. I would take him seriously if he just would try to let some things go and not bash HBK so much. HBK was a jerk then......he is a changed man now. Let it go Bret. Bret complaining about the roster, you have a problem with that  Not that I'm saying the WHOLE roster is bad but I think everyone agrees the WWE has been in the creative dumps for a long time now. Look at the ratings and ppv buys, the proof is there. One would be hard pressed to find a former wrestler to say anything good about the WWE. The only great chemistry they have is the old timers, Shawn and Taker building great matches with Jericho and Edge. Again alot of blame goes to the writers and Vince. There is no great champion anymore. Cena is the closest and he is hated as much as he is loved. LOL Edge is not a great champion? HHH Is not a great champion? But Cena, who can barely wrestle out of a paper bag IS? Get the hell out of here. |
|
|
|
Post by mrchase on Oct 9, 2008 21:37:28 GMT -5
Bret complaining about the roster, you have a problem with that Not that I'm saying the WHOLE roster is bad but I think everyone agrees the WWE has been in the creative dumps for a long time now. Look at the ratings and ppv buys, the proof is there. One would be hard pressed to find a former wrestler to say anything good about the WWE. The only great chemistry they have is the old timers, Shawn and Taker building great matches with Jericho and Edge. Again alot of blame goes to the writers and Vince. There is no great champion anymore. Cena is the closest and he is hated as much as he is loved. LOL Edge is not a great champion? HHH Is not a great champion? But Cena, who can barely wrestle out of a paper bag IS? Get the hell out of here. he means great face champion like hogan . Edge & HHH are not great face champions like hogan . the closest to being a great face champion like hogan is john cena. Edge & HHH are great heal champions like Ric Flair. |
|
missedgehead
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jun 14, 2008 22:24:41 GMT -5
Posts: 3,178
|
Post by missedgehead on Oct 9, 2008 21:44:39 GMT -5
Well, he should have specified what he meant. LOL Regardless, getting back to the topic which was the real issue, I think HBK is the best ever, no matter what a bitter old , retired, decrepit Bret Hart says. When Bret says that no one, even HHH or HBK has any psychology, then he has lost my respect and I can not take him seriously. Sorry. I mean, Taker, Edge, Cena, Batista......whatever......they are aren't bad wrestlers. Whatever Bret. He is bitter because his arch rival, Shawn Michaels can still go and put on 4/5 star matches. That is my opinion and I am sticking to it.
|
|
|
|
Post by ihavethepower on Oct 9, 2008 21:50:35 GMT -5
Man, I get so sick of the hypocrisy of this board.
HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE TO COME OUT AND SAY THAT SHAWN WAS AN bunghole BACK THEN BEFORE PEOPLE WILL SEE HIM FOR WHAT HE IS?
Vince screwed Bret out of his 20 year contract. Bret was only leaving because Vince asked him to. Wouldn't you be bitter about that? Coming to an agreement and then your boss telling you he can't pay?
Then he's asked to lose the title a second time to a guy who tricked him into doing business the first time with the agreement that Shawn would drop it back to Bret and then Shawn fakes a lost smile in order to get out of the agreement. Why would he agree to lose it to a liar a second time?
Bret was also given creative control over his character. He didn't have to do a damn thing that he didn't want to. Why? Because Vince agreed to let Bret have it his way. Let's not forget that Bret still had 30 days left on his contract so it's not like Bret could leave after Survivor Series and show up on WCW the next night. Everyone tries to say that but Bret and WCW would've been sued for 10's of Millions of dollars if either of them tried to get the WWF title on their show. It just was not a possibility. So all of this "Vince had to do it so the WWF title wouldn't be on WCW" is utter bull ****.
The people who support Michaels no matter what he's done and what he does, are like Religious people. Despite all of the proof to the contrary, people will not believe the truth, just what they want to believe. A Jesus freak will believe that Jesus existed and turned water into wine. A Shawn freak will believe he's great despite the proof that he's scum then and scum now. He's changed? He's religious? Yet you praise him for being a little bitch with Hogan? Give me a break please!
There are people on this board who are still bitching about figures trades gone bad 3 years ago. Bret lost his trust in the business, his career in WCW, and his brother. You're telling him to get over it when there are people bitching over pettiness on this board that is years old?
I have seen this in so many walks of life. When a situation doesn't affect you personally, you will always say "get over it". that is until the issue becomes personal to you.
When you have your boss betray you, your career ended by a goof, and your brother killed because Vince used the Blue Blazer character to mock Hulk Hogan, then you can see if you can just "get over it".
|
|
|
|
Post by WalterF on Oct 9, 2008 21:57:49 GMT -5
Man, I get so sick of the hypocrisy of this board. HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE TO COME OUT AND SAY THAT SHAWN WAS AN bunghole BACK THEN BEFORE PEOPLE WILL SEE HIM FOR WHAT HE IS? Vince screwed Bret out of his 20 year contract. Bret was only leaving because Vince asked him to. Wouldn't you be bitter about that? Coming to an agreement and then your boss telling you he can't pay? Bret should have been a bit more understanding to realize that Vince couldn't pay that money. WWE was almost going out of business. Vince didnt force Bret out. Bret's contrac twas rediculious and Vince never FORCED Bret out. Bret could have taken a lower contract, and made the same money as Taker and HBK, but he didnt want to do it, so he went to WCW. Sure, Bret wanted to stay in WWE, but he didn't want to make less money, so he still made the decision. Again, Bret had things wrong done to him as well, I'm not saying that, but it's still ultimately Bret's decision to leave WWE and he started the whole thing with HBK. Bret was the instigator, plain and simple. Again, HBK and Bret are my favorite wrestlers so I love both guys, but both acted selfishly during this time, but still ... Bret overall acted more selfishly. He met with WCW in secret in 1996 and used it to leverage a rediculious contact with Vince and then ended up leaving when he was asked to instead make comparable money to HBK and Taker. |
|
|
|
Post by ihavethepower on Oct 9, 2008 22:04:39 GMT -5
Man, I get so sick of the hypocrisy of this board. HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE TO COME OUT AND SAY THAT SHAWN WAS AN bunghole BACK THEN BEFORE PEOPLE WILL SEE HIM FOR WHAT HE IS? Vince screwed Bret out of his 20 year contract. Bret was only leaving because Vince asked him to. Wouldn't you be bitter about that? Coming to an agreement and then your boss telling you he can't pay? Bret should have been a bit more understanding to realize that Vince couldn't pay that money. WWE was almost going out of business. Vince didnt force Bret out. Bret's contrac twas rediculious and Vince never FORCED Bret out. Bret could have taken a lower contract, and made the same money as Taker and HBK, but he didnt want to do it, so he went to WCW. Sure, Bret wanted to stay in WWE, but he didn't want to make less money, so he still made the decision. Again, Bret had things wrong done to him as well, I'm not saying that, but it's still ultimately Bret's decision to leave WWE and he started the whole thing with HBK. Bret was the instigator, plain and simple. Again, HBK and Bret are my favorite wrestlers so I love both guys, but both acted selfishly during this time, but still ... Bret overall acted more selfishly. He met with WCW in secret in 1996 and used it to leverage a rediculious contact with Vince and then ended up leaving when he was asked to instead make comparable money to HBK and Taker. You are flat out f*cking nuts! Bret had a $1 Million a year contract for 20 years. How is that ridiculous? Even by 1997 standards. If Vince made a deal that he couldn't afford, how in the hell is that Bret's responsibility to "be more understanding"? That has got to be the most stupid thing I have read on here yet! Vince was broke? Give me a f*cking break! 4 months after Bret left, he ended up paying Mike Tyson $3 Million for a month and half worth of angle work! If Bret "wasn't understanding", he could've EASILY sued Vince for breach of contract and he would've won, slam dunk! THAT would've put Vince out of business. You have no idea what business is about. None. None. None. You're blaming the employee for expecting his boss to honor the contract that the boss negotiated and signed into? Go crawl back under your rock you moron! |
|
|
|
Post by hitmanclub on Oct 9, 2008 22:43:39 GMT -5
I Have the Power is 100% correct - i was just about to bring up the Mike Tyson Point
|
|
|
|
Post by WalterF on Oct 9, 2008 22:59:13 GMT -5
Bret should have been a bit more understanding to realize that Vince couldn't pay that money. WWE was almost going out of business. Vince didnt force Bret out. Bret's contrac twas rediculious and Vince never FORCED Bret out. Bret could have taken a lower contract, and made the same money as Taker and HBK, but he didnt want to do it, so he went to WCW. Sure, Bret wanted to stay in WWE, but he didn't want to make less money, so he still made the decision. Again, Bret had things wrong done to him as well, I'm not saying that, but it's still ultimately Bret's decision to leave WWE and he started the whole thing with HBK. Bret was the instigator, plain and simple. Again, HBK and Bret are my favorite wrestlers so I love both guys, but both acted selfishly during this time, but still ... Bret overall acted more selfishly. He met with WCW in secret in 1996 and used it to leverage a rediculious contact with Vince and then ended up leaving when he was asked to instead make comparable money to HBK and Taker. You are flat out f*cking nuts! Bret had a $1 Million a year contract for 20 years. How is that ridiculous? Even by 1997 standards. If Vince made a deal that he couldn't afford, how in the hell is that Bret's responsibility to "be more understanding"? That has got to be the most stupid thing I have read on here yet! Vince was broke? Give me a f*cking break! 4 months after Bret left, he ended up paying Mike Tyson $3 Million for a month and half worth of angle work! If Bret "wasn't understanding", he could've EASILY sued Vince for breach of contract and he would've won, slam dunk! THAT would've put Vince out of business. You have no idea what business is about. None. None. None. You're blaming the employee for expecting his boss to honor the contract that the boss negotiated and signed into? Go crawl back under your rock you moron! Actually, you're the ing moron. HBK and Taker were both making 750, 000 a piece. There is no way Bret deserved more, especially than Taker simply because he sure as hell wasn't drawing more than either of them. There was no way Bret was a bigger draw than either of those two, especially Taker. Even when Bret was champion in 1997, HBK and Taker were given the main event spots ... because they were putting more asses in the seats, so get your facts straight. And furthermore, Vince spending so much on Tyson added bigtime viewership to WM14 and made it a huge success so he more than made back on it. Bret's contract was not gonna draw back immediate money like Tyson at WM. Obviously, it wasn't too major a blow to WWE, since WWE did their best business in 1998, after Bret left. You're the f-cking moron and you should get your sh-t straight before you decide to insult other people. Obviously I do have a good idea of what business is about as did WWE at the time because they were able to turn everything around. Also keep in mind that Bret didn't want to go in the direction of the Attitude Era ... and what would have happened if WWE didn't get edgier? They problably would have went out of business. Just because Vince gave a big chunk of change to Tyson, doesn't automatically dismiss the whole rediculiousness of Bret's contract, and if you knew more about the reasons why you'd MAYBE be entitled to an opinion. |
|
|
|
Post by hitmanclub on Oct 9, 2008 23:04:28 GMT -5
You are flat out f*cking nuts! Bret had a $1 Million a year contract for 20 years. How is that ridiculous? Even by 1997 standards. If Vince made a deal that he couldn't afford, how in the hell is that Bret's responsibility to "be more understanding"? That has got to be the most stupid thing I have read on here yet! Vince was broke? Give me a f*cking break! 4 months after Bret left, he ended up paying Mike Tyson $3 Million for a month and half worth of angle work! If Bret "wasn't understanding", he could've EASILY sued Vince for breach of contract and he would've won, slam dunk! THAT would've put Vince out of business. You have no idea what business is about. None. None. None. You're blaming the employee for expecting his boss to honor the contract that the boss negotiated and signed into? Go crawl back under your rock you moron! Actually, you're the ing moron. HBK and Taker were both making 750, 000 a piece. There is no way Bret deserved more, especially than Taker simply because he sure as hell wasn't drawing more than either of them. There was no way Bret was a bigger draw than either of those two, especially Taker. Even when Bret was champion in 1997, HBK and Taker were given the main event spots ... because they were putting more asses in the seats, so get your facts straight. And furthermore, Vince spending so much on Tyson added ***** viewership to WM14 and made it a huge success so he more than made back on it. Bret's contract was not gonna draw back immediate money like Tyson at WM. Obviously, it wasn't too major a blow to WWE, since WWE did their best business in 1998, after Bret left. You're the f-cking moron and you should get your sh-t straight before you decide to insult other people. Obviously I do have a good idea of what business is about as did WWE at the time because they were able to turn everything around. Also keep in mind that Bret didn't want to go in the direction of the Attitude Era ... and what would have happened if WWE didn't get edgier? They problably would have went out of business. Just because Vince gave a big chunk of change to Tyson, doesn't automatically dismiss the whole rediculiousness of Bret's contract, and if you knew more about the reasons why you'd MAYBE be entitled to an opinion. nah he was right, you were wrong...im not going to call anyone names tho. No way vince made him money back off the tyson thing, and bret was putting more people in the seats then shawn michaels, taker i dunno. But it was close, bret was def selling out outside of the U.S. more then any of them tho. |
|
