madness1
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jan 31, 2007 10:26:16 GMT -5
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Post by madness1 on Oct 31, 2008 1:20:38 GMT -5
Yeah, I know many have thier opinons on how to rank the greatest wrestlers of all time but imo it should go off technical skills, mic skills, baby face and heel response; drawing power. To be even considered you must have had a good run as champion, its a must. You had to at one point been at the top of wwe or wcw. You also must have been an innovater; wrestling changed because of you. And staying power is another must. I'm only going on the last 30 years. I also think you had to main event wrestlemania at least once. People like Steamboat are great wrestlers but he was never able to grab the brass ring.
1. Shawn Michaels
PROS: greatest hand in the buisness, great on the stick, formed DX which drastically changed wwe, main evented 5 WM's
CONS: was never a great champion, due to the sexy boy image old timers HATED him, drew well but not great. Another draw back was he was a small wrestler many male fans didn't think he was big in stature enough to be a legit champion.
2. Ric Flair
PROS: great mic skills and could put a mop over. Drew well. Logevity, even at 60 people want to see him wrestle. Horsemen agrubly started the factions of wrestling.
CONS: couldn't draw well enough to hold wwe title for long. Has always been overrated for his in ring work by some.
3. Kurt Angle
PROS: possibly the greatest technical wrestler of all time. One of the few legit wrestlers in wrestling. Can wrestle any style.
CONS: not a great draw; went to TNA and didn't help ratings, due to Hogan overshadowing him and Lesner they put the Mr. America gimmick on him. Never been a great baby face.
4. (tie) Hulk Hogan
PROS: most popular wrestler off all time. Most hated heel of all time. NWO singlehandedly almost put wwe out of buisness. Is the only wrestler to be bigger than the sport of wrestling. At 54 yrs old he's still in demand. Good mic skills
CONS: not a good wrestler, did little to help put others over.
4.(tie) Bret Hart
PROS: maybe the greatest techincal wrestler off all time. Was the only wrestler to fill Hogan's shoes after Hogans' departer. One of the most popular wrestlers and could play a great heel. Could have great matches with big and small men.
CONS: poor on the mic. Was not a great draw in USA; was champion in one of the lowest points financally in wwe. Has been critisized as not being able to change his style.
5. Undertaker
PROS: the greatest big man of all time. Has been on top for over 15 years. Can change his style when needed. Best gimmick ever in wrestling.
CONS: critisized for not changing up routine. Hardly puts opponints over. Not much of an innovator.
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Post by carly1988 on Oct 31, 2008 3:10:23 GMT -5
Thats very biased simply when you say "you must have Main Evented Wrestlemania" but Steamboat, Dusty Rhodes, Great Muta, Sting can all be mentioned as top 5 greats....All around here are mine...
1)Ric Flair- For American wrestling I will accept any version of Flair/Hogan as long as they are numbers 1 and 2. Without these two men, wrestling wouldnt be anywhere near what it is or was without these two men. These two men are THE faces of pro wrestling.
2)Hulk Hogan-See above. The only reason I put Flair as 1 and Hogan as 2 is simply Flair could put on a 5 star match whereas Hogan never could.
3)The Great Muta- Without argument Muta can be considered #1. He has more ring talent then Flair and is probably a bigger name in Japan then Hogan is in the States. The only reason I drop Muta to 3 is because most of his work isnt seen in the states where we all live.
4)Bret Hart- Pound for pound the best professional wrestler ever. He was solid on the mic (not the greatest) and could put on a great match with anyone he stepped into the ring with.
5)Dusty Rhodes-Charisma is one of the biggest selling points of wrestling. Outside of Hogan and Flair, nobody had better Charisma then Dusty Rhodes. Rhodes could match Hogan in everything with the exception of muscle/strength. Rhodes had a lisp, but Hogan couldnt cut a promo without looking like he's constipated. The biggest difference between Hogan and Rhodes is that Hogan had a huge million dollar machine (WWF) pushing him where Rhodes was happy being in Jim Crockett Promotions
To round out my Top 10 6-10 looks like this
6-Sting
7-Kurt Angle
8-Chris Benoit
9-Randy Savage
10-Tully Blanchard
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Post by kennethtogash on Oct 31, 2008 8:40:12 GMT -5
1.Hulk Hogan
He is the greatest of all time. More people know who Hulk Hogan is than anyone else.
Pros-drawing power alone makes him number one. Charisma all day.
Great interviews.
Cons-technical skills
2.Ultimate Warrior
Very exciting wrestler. Just had a presence about him. Second only to Hogan.
Pros-drawing power-charisma-interviews-high energy
Cons-technical skills
3. Andre the Giant
Drew crowds everywhere. The man was loved. Andre is the greatest giant. He is missed.
Pros-drew as much as Hogan.Great ring presence. Great Wrestler when he was young. Had it all.
Cons-interviews he was hard to understand
4. Randy Savage
He had everything. He had the greatest match ever at WM3.
Pros-he could wrestle-he drew-He could talk
Cons-Whatever he did to make Vince hate him so much. I hope it was not the Stephanie Rumor.
5. Don Muraco
One of the greatest. His time in the 80's was gold
He cut the greatest interviews ever.
Pros-Perfect interviews-He could wrestle-He could play the heel as good as anyone except for PiPer and Dr D.
Cons-His run with Superstar Billy Graham brought him down a bit
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Post by LeighD on Oct 31, 2008 13:03:02 GMT -5
In NO order:
1) Ric Flair - The man had and can do it all. Even before cutting a promo was important, Flair was one of a handful of men that could really work the mic to his advantage. He has wrestled all over the world and could draw.
2) Bret "Hit Man" Hart - IMO the best wrestler to ever step in the ring. He was able to give great matches with ANYONE; Yokozuna, 1-2-3 Kid, Razor Ramon, Shawn Michaels, Mr. Perfect, etc. While he wasn't the best mic worker, he still could hold his own in the promo department. A huge draw in Canada and overseas, not just in USA.
3) Hulk Hogan - The WWF's biggest drawing individual in the 80's, Hogan was the man whom brought pro-wrestling into mainstream America. True his matches weren't scienctific, but the man could draw simply by his name alone.
4) Bruno Sammartino - His multi-year (yes year) title reigns were a testiment as to what kind of performer he was. While many younger fans may not understand his importance, those of us whom grew up watching him know just how big of an impact he made.
5) Andre the Giant - Truly the 8th Wonder of the World, Andre was huge in the 80s and 70s! Many fans do not remember or know of the kinds of bouts he had in his prime and was truly amazing to watch.
Honorable Mention:
- Kurt Angle
- The Undertaker
- The Great Muta
- Shawn Michaels
- HHH
- Rowdy Roddy Piper
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madness1
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jan 31, 2007 10:26:16 GMT -5
Posts: 2,023
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Post by madness1 on Oct 31, 2008 16:45:44 GMT -5
wow shocked so many put Hogan. I figured I'd be one of the only to have him on the list. No love for HBK other than me  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2008 17:09:12 GMT -5
Flair, Hogan, Shawn, Piper, Rhodes
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Post by carly1988 on Oct 31, 2008 20:59:41 GMT -5
wow shocked so many put Hogan. I figured I'd be one of the only to have him on the list. No love for HBK other than me As much as I dont like him, HBK is a great talent but in the grand scheme of things is VERY over-rated. I think his time as a member of the Rockers and his early singles career (92-94) was his best years. Every Wrestlemania he Main evented were not see as "average" at best. WM 11 was terrible to most, 12 was a good match but boring as hell cause it took so long. 14 wasnt really his fault because of the injury and well 23 with cena was just bad in general. HBK seems to shine more at mania when he isnt main eventing. Also I think it hurts HBK that he was champion before and after the the "big booms" in wrestling but was never really a part of the big draw. |
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Post by jayjay on Oct 31, 2008 21:04:33 GMT -5
1. Bret Hart - Best wrestler ever, told great stories in the ring and was a great heel and role model to young kids as a face.
2. Chris Benoit - Always had a good match, always put over other wrestlers, made wrestling look "real".
3. Shawn Michaels - Never has a bad match on PPV, great draw, excellent wrestler, excellent heel, excellent mic worker, actor, you name it. He was/is the full package.
4. Ric Flair - Had great matches, great mic worker, great wrestler and can still have a good match at over 50 years of age. You can't have one of these lists without Flair IMO
5. Mr. Perfect - Great seller, great wrestler and great mic worker, such a shame he is gone as I would have paid loads to see Perfect vs Angle. He is the total package and was VERY deserving of a world championship in the WWF/E IMO.
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Post by laufey5 on Oct 31, 2008 21:36:52 GMT -5
hogan and dusty did more for the business than anyone... i would put those two top two... flair being a very close third to dusty
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madness1
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jan 31, 2007 10:26:16 GMT -5
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Post by madness1 on Oct 31, 2008 21:54:22 GMT -5
wow shocked so many put Hogan. I figured I'd be one of the only to have him on the list. No love for HBK other than me As much as I dont like him, HBK is a great talent but in the grand scheme of things is VERY over-rated. I think his time as a member of the Rockers and his early singles career (92-94) was his best years. Every Wrestlemania he Main evented were not see as "average" at best. WM 11 was terrible to most, 12 was a good match but boring as hell cause it took so long. 14 wasnt really his fault because of the injury and well 23 with cena was just bad in general. HBK seems to shine more at mania when he isnt main eventing. Also I think it hurts HBK that he was champion before and after the the "big booms" in wrestling but was never really a part of the big draw. wow couldnt disagree more. of course this is all opinion but imo you'll be hard pressed to find many who share your opinion. hbks best years were certinally not with the rockers i mean come on. i could even respect your opinion if you said his ic run but the rockers lol. his mach with brett is widely recognised as the greatest wm matche of all time. i disagree but whatever i liked his wm 11 and 23 match. and even though he was hurt his 14 is another classic. he actually was a good draw as champion not great but better in the usa than brett its just wwe was strugling taker as wel couldnt draw well as champ during those years |
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Post by carly1988 on Oct 31, 2008 23:16:50 GMT -5
As much as I dont like him, HBK is a great talent but in the grand scheme of things is VERY over-rated. I think his time as a member of the Rockers and his early singles career (92-94) was his best years. Every Wrestlemania he Main evented were not see as "average" at best. WM 11 was terrible to most, 12 was a good match but boring as hell cause it took so long. 14 wasnt really his fault because of the injury and well 23 with cena was just bad in general. HBK seems to shine more at mania when he isnt main eventing. Also I think it hurts HBK that he was champion before and after the the "big booms" in wrestling but was never really a part of the big draw. wow couldnt disagree more. of course this is all opinion but imo you'll be hard pressed to find many who share your opinion. hbks best years were certinally not with the rockers i mean come on. i could even respect your opinion if you said his ic run but the rockers lol. his mach with brett is widely recognised as the greatest wm matche of all time. i disagree but whatever i liked his wm 11 and 23 match. and even though he was hurt his 14 is another classic. he actually was a good draw as champion not great but better in the usa than brett its just wwe was strugling taker as wel couldnt draw well as champ during those years Everyone always says that HBK was a great draw...he was no better or worse then Bret Hart. Both were crappy draws. The WWF would be "sold out" and it sounded great, the problem is they didnt sell out MSG or Boston Garden like Hogan did nor did they sell out Astrodome like Austin did. They ran smaller arenas like Hartford Civic Center...for WRESTLEMANIA!!! Also dont get me wrong about the Iron Man match....I enjoyed it and I can certainly see where people consider it one of if not the greatest match in WM history...but lets be honest. How many people sit down and watch that match and actually watch it all the way through and NOT fast forward. Its just too long with way too many rest holds. And yes his Midnight Rocker/Rocker years and early singles career (up to about 94, all the time being an IC champ) were his best years. Matches he had against Brain Busters and Hart Foundation were great. The Rockers could have easily been one of the top 5 greatest tag teams of all time if they stuck together. Marty had as much in ring talent has Shawn did but the charisma and mic skills was certainly not there. |
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Post by tnafan17: The Total Package on Oct 31, 2008 23:19:09 GMT -5
1) Ric Flair- Clearly the fact to me that he was still putting butts in the seats in his 50's and liked stated before the guy had it all.
2) Hulk Hogan- While not the greatest in-ring performer, the guy had charisma and is probably the most well known name in wrestling of all time.
3) Bret Hart - Probably the best wrestler of all time, lacked in mic skills but loved his in-ring ability.
4) Sting- No doubt this guy is the total package and was WCW's main draw at one time and probably their biggest besides Flair.
5) Ricky Steamboat- One of the most successful competitors in the sport and he was a fan favorite for 20 years. His fued with Flair was one of the greatest in the sport to say the least
6-The Rock
7- Kurt Angle
8- Chris Benoit
9- HHH
10- Scott Hall
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Kick Your Face
Main Eventer
Real Join Date: Sep 2003
Joined on: Nov 25, 2007 17:32:21 GMT -5
Posts: 3,141
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Post by Kick Your Face on Nov 1, 2008 1:26:22 GMT -5
1. Jumbo Tsuruta
PROS: He could sell. He would raise a fist and the crowd would go crazy. The crowd would react to ANY move he did. He knew exactly when to do it, too, in order to bring the crowd to their feet. He had loads of charisma and as soon as "J" hit, you knew who was coming with the crowd chanting "Oh, Tsur-uu-uuta!". He had quite possibly the greatest matches in the 80s; a string of them. He was very athletic for his size and could pull off a fantastic dropkick with great agility for a 280 lb guy. And last but not least, he was the master of the backdrop suplex.
CONS: He tended to oversell his back a little too much. When he would take a shoulder block, he would flop around like a fish after each one. Besides that, there isn't really anything.
2. Ric Flair
PROS: He was a fantastic wrestler and he could work with JUST ABOUT anyone. He was great on the mic, was oozing charisma and just had the flamboyant-like appearance wherever he went.
CONS: When put up against a bad wrestler, he usually had a bad match, which means that he wasn't able to carry his subpar opponents very well.
3. Kenta Kobashi
PROS: He is a legend and has accomplished A LOT in his twenty-year career. Not to mention, those weren't a full twenty years. He has charisma. He has mic skills. He has burning spirit and never quits. He has had loads and loads of MOTYs. He has great agility for his size, as he can pull off a pretty good moonsault. He can sell to perfection. He knows what the crowd wants at each of second of the match and gives it to them. AMAZING drawing power. Simply put, he is the smartest wrestler of all-time.
CONS: With all the pros, there is a pretty major con. Not that it affects his in-ring work, but he is VERY injury-prone. Besides that, I don't see anything else.
4. Mitsuharu Misawa
PROS: He could have a good match with just about anyone. He was probably the best singles wrestler in the world throughout the 90s. He very rarely receives an injury.
CONS: He cannot sell if his life depended on it. The dude just cannot sell at all.
5. Dynamite Kid
PROS: He was the innovator of the styles we see today. His matches with Tiger Mask I will go down as classics and it was not only Tiger Mask that put those matches together. It was Dynamite Kid as well.
CONS: He didn't have charisma or mic skills.
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madness1
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jan 31, 2007 10:26:16 GMT -5
Posts: 2,023
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Post by madness1 on Nov 1, 2008 5:33:21 GMT -5
As much as I dont like him, HBK is a great talent but in the grand scheme of things is VERY over-rated. I think his time as a member of the Rockers and his early singles career (92-94) was his best years. Every Wrestlemania he Main evented were not see as "average" at best. WM 11 was terrible to most, 12 was a good match but boring as hell cause it took so long. 14 wasnt really his fault because of the injury and well 23 with cena was just bad in general. HBK seems to shine more at mania when he isnt main eventing. Also I think it hurts HBK that he was champion before and after the the "big booms" in wrestling but was never really a part of the big draw. wow couldnt disagree more. of course this is all opinion but imo you'll be hard pressed to find many who share your opinion. hbks best years were certinally not with the rockers i mean come on. i could even respect your opinion if you said his ic run but the rockers lol. his mach with brett is widely recognised as the greatest wm matche of all time. i disagree but whatever i liked his wm 11 and 23 match. and even though he was hurt his 14 is another classic. he actually was a good draw as champion not great but better in the usa than brett its just wwe was strugling taker as wel couldnt draw well as champ during those years I wouldn't go so far as to say they were crappy draws as wrestling after the steriod and sex scandel was in the crapper. If not for Bret and Shawn who knows if wwe would have survived. Kind of unfair to compare them to the two biggest draws of all time(Hogan and Austin) I agree I have never been able to watch the iron man match without fast forwarding the middle. The last ten minutes are pure gold though. Personally my favorite HBK wm match is him and Jericho. The ball shot is great. Most think his Angle is perhaps the greatest wm match ever though. |
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Post by carly1988 on Nov 1, 2008 5:42:19 GMT -5
wow couldnt disagree more. of course this is all opinion but imo you'll be hard pressed to find many who share your opinion. hbks best years were certinally not with the rockers i mean come on. i could even respect your opinion if you said his ic run but the rockers lol. his mach with brett is widely recognised as the greatest wm matche of all time. i disagree but whatever i liked his wm 11 and 23 match. and even though he was hurt his 14 is another classic. he actually was a good draw as champion not great but better in the usa than brett its just wwe was strugling taker as wel couldnt draw well as champ during those years I wouldn't go so far as to say they were crappy draws as wrestling after the steriod and sex scandel was in the crapper. If not for Bret and Shawn who knows if wwe would have survived. Kind of unfair to compare them to the two biggest draws of all time(Hogan and Austin) I agree I have never been able to watch the iron man match without fast forwarding the middle. The last ten minutes are pure gold though. Personally my favorite HBK wm match is him and Jericho. The ball shot is great. Most think his Angle is perhaps the greatest wm match ever though. Crappy draws might have been a bad usage of words. The point is when HBK and Bret were on top for the most part the WWE ran smaller arenas. The fact thats bret held the title more during the "dead period" tells me that Vince had more faith, trust and all around like Brets work more then Shawns. I think something thats hurting Shawn is the fact he's never worked anywhere else and his "big draws" came in 2-4 year span, whereas guys like Hogan, Flair, Muta etc have drawn for 20+ years Just to edit this a lil...Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair and Andre The Giant are probably the 3 faces of professional wrestling around the world. Event though I didnt put Andre in my top 5 I would be hard not to consider this the top 3. There is still a handfull of guys in Japan that can out wrestle and out draw HBK, Bret, Sting etc such as Muta, Chono, Misawa, Inoki and more.....HBK is probably one of the top 5 best Wrestlers ever in WWF/E but not one of the best all time |
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Kick Your Face
Main Eventer
Real Join Date: Sep 2003
Joined on: Nov 25, 2007 17:32:21 GMT -5
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Post by Kick Your Face on Nov 1, 2008 12:48:56 GMT -5
I wouldn't go so far as to say they were crappy draws as wrestling after the steriod and sex scandel was in the crapper. If not for Bret and Shawn who knows if wwe would have survived. Kind of unfair to compare them to the two biggest draws of all time(Hogan and Austin) I agree I have never been able to watch the iron man match without fast forwarding the middle. The last ten minutes are pure gold though. Personally my favorite HBK wm match is him and Jericho. The ball shot is great. Most think his Angle is perhaps the greatest wm match ever though. Crappy draws might have been a bad usage of words. The point is when HBK and Bret were on top for the most part the WWE ran smaller arenas. The fact thats bret held the title more during the "dead period" tells me that Vince had more faith, trust and all around like Brets work more then Shawns. I think something thats hurting Shawn is the fact he's never worked anywhere else and his "big draws" came in 2-4 year span, whereas guys like Hogan, Flair, Muta etc have drawn for 20+ years Just to edit this a lil...Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair and Andre The Giant are probably the 3 faces of professional wrestling around the world. Event though I didnt put Andre in my top 5 I would be hard not to consider this the top 3. There is still a handfull of guys in Japan that can out wrestle and out draw HBK, Bret, Sting etc such as Muta, Chono, Misawa, Inoki and more.....HBK is probably one of the top 5 best Wrestlers ever in WWF/E but not one of the best all time Oh, definitely. I'd also add Shinya Hashimoto into the mix, who main evented more Tokyo Dome shows than anyone and is the 4th top draw of all-time in professional wrestling. 1. Hulk Hogan 2. Ric Flair 3. Antonio Inoki 4. Shinya Hashimoto 5. Steve Austin I think the list went something like that for the top draws of all-time. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2008 18:26:38 GMT -5
01 sting 02 warrior 03 jushin thunder liger 04 ric flair 05 hulk hogan thier careers speak for themselves  |
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Post by carly1988 on Nov 1, 2008 23:17:40 GMT -5
01 sting 02 warrior03 jushin thunder liger 04 ric flair 05 hulk hogan thier careers speak for themselves Warrior should never sniff the top 20. His career was a joke, he cant wrestle, cant work the mic and his charisma was never to the scale of a Hogan or Flair. |
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madness1
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jan 31, 2007 10:26:16 GMT -5
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Post by madness1 on Nov 2, 2008 7:50:41 GMT -5
01 sting 02 warrior03 jushin thunder liger 04 ric flair 05 hulk hogan thier careers speak for themselves Warrior should never sniff the top 20. His career was a joke, he cant wrestle, cant work the mic and his charisma was never to the scale of a Hogan or Flair. got to agree. Warrior was basically a one hit wonder. After his initial run his career had run it's course. You can only watch his three move sets for so long. Only watchable matches was his WM with Hogan. Rude made him look great and personally 'I thought his Macho match from wm is way overrated. Warrior looking at his hands like he was summoing the gods was  ing dumb as **** and I was a kid And as far as Sting goes. He was good but nowhere near any top five. He couldn't play heel imo if you can't play heel that is a huge knock Flair has said that himself when saying that's the only reason Steamboat isn't the greatest of all time. |
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Post by Heresy on Nov 2, 2008 10:04:04 GMT -5
1. Hulk Hogan: Brought wrestling into pop culture and ushered in the age of wrestling as family entertainment.
2. Steve Austin: Brought wrestling back into pop culture and ushered in the age of wrestling as edgy, and "cool."
3. The Rock: Assisted Steve Austin in doing the above, while being the first to successfully make the transition from wrestler to actor.
4. The Undertaker: The most captivating character of alltime.
5. Shawn Michaels: The most well rounded top draw of alltime.
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