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Post by arnanderson on May 11, 2010 14:05:11 GMT -5
Just because God wasn't physically WITH them, does not mean he wasn't spiritually with them. Which is why then there are so many differences in between all the different verisons of the Bibles, and through language changes? Wouldn't God make sure all of those were accurate too? Or that his name would be spelt right, and pronounced right? The Bible was written by man.
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StingerSplash
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Post by StingerSplash on May 11, 2010 14:08:41 GMT -5
Just because God wasn't physically WITH them, does not mean he wasn't spiritually with them. Which is why then there are so many differences in between all the different verisons of the Bibles, and through language changes? Wouldn't God make sure all of those were accurate too? Or that his name would be spelt right, and pronounced right? The Bible was written by man. Naw, really? Anyways, there are many different languages and ways to speak. Sure, the Bible is written in different styles of dialect, but I'm sure that the message is the same in every editon. I prefer the NIV, just because it's easier for me to understand. That doesn't mean it's any more accurate or less accurate than any other version.
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Post by bane on May 11, 2010 14:09:38 GMT -5
Actually read this...Matthew 6:9 “YOU must pray, then, this way: See that is where you are wrong because depending on the Church you go tom which yours states that that is how you must pray, it isn't like that for other Churches. So no you do not have to pray like that as there are multiple ways to pray, as well as interpretations of how it can be used. If you want to pray you can pray anyway you want, and anyone who says differently is wrong. I can pray using the name of Jesus, God, or any other God from any other type of religion that one maybe a part of. Do you think God really cares what you call him? Of course not. God is also know as Jesus Christ. No it isn't different from the example I gave you because that is how the real world works. Information becomes fuzzier, and fuzzier as time passes. And with a Book that was written some 40 to 70 years after Jesus's death that was not even written by the man, but by man himself there are errors. That's part of being human. People don't do it on purpose but it just happens just like the ole Telephone game you use to play in High School. And that is exactly how the Bible was communicated from until a written text came a long. Which is why I said you need to keep a open mind on what is said in the Bible, and pick and choose what you think is the most accurate in it. Um...Yeah Arn, you showed up to this conversation 10 pages too late. Go back and read everything before posting. We have already covered this ground. God isn't Jesus. We already discussed that with scriptural references.
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StingerSplash
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Post by StingerSplash on May 11, 2010 14:12:07 GMT -5
See that is where you are wrong because depending on the Church you go tom which yours states that that is how you must pray, it isn't like that for other Churches. So no you do not have to pray like that as there are multiple ways to pray, as well as interpretations of how it can be used. If you want to pray you can pray anyway you want, and anyone who says differently is wrong. I can pray using the name of Jesus, God, or any other God from any other type of religion that one maybe a part of. Do you think God really cares what you call him? Of course not. God is also know as Jesus Christ. No it isn't different from the example I gave you because that is how the real world works. Information becomes fuzzier, and fuzzier as time passes. And with a Book that was written some 40 to 70 years after Jesus's death that was not even written by the man, but by man himself there are errors. That's part of being human. People don't do it on purpose but it just happens just like the ole Telephone game you use to play in High School. And that is exactly how the Bible was communicated from until a written text came a long. Which is why I said you need to keep a open mind on what is said in the Bible, and pick and choose what you think is the most accurate in it. Um...Yeah Arn, you showed up to this conversation 10 pages too late. Go back and read everything before posting. We have already covered this ground. God isn't Jesus. We already discussed that with scriptural references. Bane, although you and I completely disagree, thank you for setting the guy straight. He has no idea what we've been discussing the last 10 pages.
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Post by arnanderson on May 11, 2010 14:13:33 GMT -5
Which is why then there are so many differences in between all the different verisons of the Bibles, and through language changes? Wouldn't God make sure all of those were accurate too? Or that his name would be spelt right, and pronounced right? The Bible was written by man. Naw, really? Anyways, there are many different languages and ways to speak. Sure, the Bible is written in different styles of dialect, but I'm sure that the message is the same in every editon. It is not just look at between the examples of Bane's beliefs upon the Bible, and other Christian religions. A lot of Christian religons do not believe that the Blood, and Body of Christ are literally the Body, and the Blood of Christ. And you get the messages from a book that wasn't even written by Jesus. So your information is from a second hand source. Actually when changing from one language to the next there is going to be different accuracies. If you want to know what the Bible literally says you should learn the language it was written in. And that is within all things if you want a completely accurate encounter. Um...Yeah Arn, you showed up to this conversation 10 pages too late. Go back and read everything before posting. We have already covered this ground. God isn't Jesus. We already discussed that with scriptural references. I already read all of the pages before I started the conversation but Jesus is God. The Trinity. But your branch of Christianity doesn't believe in it so it isn't true. Bane, although you and I completely disagree, thank you for setting the guy straight. He has no idea what we've been discussing the last 10 pages. More like you have no idea what is actually going on.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on May 11, 2010 14:29:58 GMT -5
Not saying the name isn't important, I'm just questioning why it's so important that we know the exact name. Why quibble over it? If I want to worship the same deity you worship, but I want to call him Bob, where's the harm? I think I just answered that. It was very important to Jesus and it is important to Jehovah. See the scriptures above. Jesus doesn't say call him whatever you want...He loves you and don't worry about it...He said what he said because it distinguishs him from all other Gods. His unique name, Jehovah. Now I'm even more confused. I thought you said Jehovah was the one and only God and there were no other gods period.
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StingerSplash
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Post by StingerSplash on May 11, 2010 14:33:02 GMT -5
Arn, I can't quote you because I'm on my phone BUT
It's you my friend that have no idea what's going on. You just joined on this conversation, Bane, myself, Dr. Hulk, and numerous others have been involved in this from the beginning. So before you come in here and start telling us what's right and wrong, learn your facts...the facts about this thread.
We've kept it nice, and orderly, and EDUCATED and I'll be darned if you get this locked because you like to start fights. Just get out.
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Post by arnanderson on May 11, 2010 14:41:39 GMT -5
Arn, I can't quote you because I'm on my phone BUTIt's you my friend that have no idea what's going on. You just joined on this conversation, Bane, myself, Dr. Hulk, and numerous others have been involved in this from the beginning. So before you come in here and start telling us what's right and wrong, learn your facts...the facts about this thread. So you are saying I didn't read all of the pages before I got into this thread? That's just stupid! Because I did! You think just because your religon doesn't believe in it mean yours is right, and ours is wrong. Do you believe all the other religions besides Christianity are wrong too? Maybe you should learn to be open minded on what others have to say. How am I starting fights? Because I don't agree with your opinions, and use facts to back up what I have to say? Fact is that the Bible was written decades after Jesus was murdered, and Jesus didn't write the Bible, man did. And man makes flaws. You can come in here and say that God was with them in Spirit, but if that was really true wouldn't God have made sure all the Bibles were one in the same? After all he treats everyone equally, so why does he give one person more power then the other? You, and Bane have proven my point that the Bible have different meanings because your Churches believe differently then what other Churches believe in, and vice versa.
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Post by bane on May 11, 2010 15:26:21 GMT -5
Arn, I can't quote you because I'm on my phone BUTIt's you my friend that have no idea what's going on. You just joined on this conversation, Bane, myself, Dr. Hulk, and numerous others have been involved in this from the beginning. So before you come in here and start telling us what's right and wrong, learn your facts...the facts about this thread. So you are saying I didn't read all of the pages before I got into this thread? That's just stupid! Because I did! You think just because your religon doesn't believe in it mean yours is right, and ours is wrong. Do you believe all the other religions besides Christianity are wrong too? Maybe you should learn to be open minded on what others have to say. How am I starting fights? Because I don't agree with your opinions, and use facts to back up what I have to say? Fact is that the Bible was written decades after Jesus was murdered, and Jesus didn't write the Bible, man did. And man makes flaws. You can come in here and say that God was with them in Spirit, but if that was really true wouldn't God have made sure all the Bibles were one in the same? After all he treats everyone equally, so why does he give one person more power then the other? You, and Bane have proven my point that the Bible have different meanings because your Churches believe differently then what other Churches believe in, and vice versa. You haven't provided any facts. You just say the Bible isn't true. The Bible doesn't have different meanings. Thou shall not commit murder is PRETTTY much in EVERY single bible there is where that verse occurs. Dr. Hulk, There is only one true GOD. The bible does talk about other gods though. Satan is refered to as a god. 2 Corinthians 4:3 If, now, the good news we declare is in fact veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, 4 among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through. Satan is the god of this system of things. Meaning the world today. There are false gods and the one true God. Even Jesus is godlike.
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Post by arnanderson on May 11, 2010 15:33:37 GMT -5
You haven't provided any facts. You just say the Bible isn't true. The Bible doesn't have different meanings. Thou shall not commit murder is PRETTTY much in EVERY single bible there is where that verse occurs. I have proven facts. I have proven that people can't accurately give what they received 50 years ago, and how verbally communications change over time just like when something is transcribed from one language to another. The Bible does too have different meanings. Your Church doesn't believe in the Trinity. I would say that is pretty different. lol And your own Church excommunicates with people within your own Church who don't go by what your Church says. God, Jesus, or any other name you want to call him would never stop talking to someone if they didn't do what he said. In a lot of Christian religons Jesus is God.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on May 11, 2010 15:48:25 GMT -5
I'm still confused as to what exactly you believe about Jesus. Is he God? You say no. Fine. What exactly is he then? A prophet? A good man? A simple teacher? I say he is in fact God. Isaiah prophesied that John the Baptist would be the forerunner of Jehovah. John the Baptist was the forerunner of Jesus. Yet John the Baptist himself says that he is the forerunner of Christ (John 3:28). Is John the forerunner of Jehovah as Isaiah says or the forerunner of Christ as he (John) claims? Or is Jehovah and Christ one and the same and both claims are true?
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StingerSplash
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Post by StingerSplash on May 11, 2010 16:34:01 GMT -5
You haven't provided any facts. You just say the Bible isn't true. The Bible doesn't have different meanings. Thou shall not commit murder is PRETTTY much in EVERY single bible there is where that verse occurs. I have proven facts. I have proven that people can't accurately give what they received 50 years ago, and how verbally communications change over time just like when something is transcribed from one language to another.The Bible does too have different meanings. Your Church doesn't believe in the Trinity. I would say that is pretty different. lol And your own Church excommunicates with people within your own Church who don't go by what your Church says. God, Jesus, or any other name you want to call him would never stop talking to someone if they didn't do what he said. In a lot of Christian religons Jesus is God. No, you stated that. Sure, us as humans could definitely make errors when transcribing the Bible. But you forget we are talking about people who talked and walked with God. Myself, and I'm sure Bane will agree as well, that God would not allow something to be inaccurately transcribed. Altogether though, you've contributed nothing to this thread.
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Mr. Bo Ziffer
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Post by Mr. Bo Ziffer on May 11, 2010 16:44:47 GMT -5
So you guys are telling me that there is a man that lives in the sky, who can see and here everything we do? And if were bad he's going to send us to hell so we can be tortured until the end of time? But he loves us.
I respect your right to be religous but know that you're wrong. stop being a child.
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Post by Angel Beast on May 11, 2010 16:51:26 GMT -5
So you guys are telling me that there is a man that lives in the sky, who can see and here everything we do? And if were bad he's going to send us to hell so we can be tortured until the end of time? But he loves us. I respect your right to be religous but know that you're wrong. stop being a child. 1. Calm down George Carlin. 2. What makes everyone that believes in a religion wrong? 3. Having a belief does not make one a child.
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Mr. Bo Ziffer
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Post by Mr. Bo Ziffer on May 11, 2010 16:57:20 GMT -5
George Carlin AND Jim Jeffries.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2010 16:57:24 GMT -5
WOW.
A SIMPLE QUESTION TURNS INTO AN 11 PAGE ARGUMENT?
FOR REAL?
EXXCCUSSE ME
I am a proud Christian and I will be at Church in 21 minutes!
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Post by bane on May 11, 2010 17:02:04 GMT -5
So you guys are telling me that there is a man that lives in the sky, who can see and here everything we do? And if were bad he's going to send us to hell so we can be tortured until the end of time? But he loves us. I respect your right to be religous but know that you're wrong. stop being a child. Actually no. Hell doesn't exist in the Bible. IF God is all loving etc..He is a God of Justice too. Then the two traits of his personality rule out burning a soul forever in a hell. Jeremiah 7:31 Ezekial 18:4 Dr. Hulk, Jesus was the first thing Jehovah created. Colossians 1:15 He is basically the first angel. The archangel Micheal.
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StingerSplash
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Post by StingerSplash on May 11, 2010 17:06:50 GMT -5
WOW. A SIMPLE QUESTION TURNS INTO AN 11 PAGE ARGUMENT? FOR REAL? EXXCCUSSE ME I am a proud Christian and I will be at Church in 21 minutes! It wasn't an argument until some ignorant bunghole had to come it here and mouth off. Up until today it's actually been a very nice discussion/debate. Unlike most 'religion' threads on here.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on May 11, 2010 17:49:22 GMT -5
So you guys are telling me that there is a man that lives in the sky, who can see and here everything we do? And if were bad he's going to send us to hell so we can be tortured until the end of time? But he loves us. I respect your right to be religous but know that you're wrong. stop being a child. Actually no. Hell doesn't exist in the Bible. IF God is all loving etc..He is a God of Justice too. Then the two traits of his personality rule out burning a soul forever in a hell. Jeremiah 7:31 Ezekial 18:4 Dr. Hulk, Jesus was the first thing Jehovah created. Colossians 1:15 He is basically the first angel. The archangel Micheal. So Jesus is basically at the same level of the angels then? Am I understanding you correctly?
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Post by bane on May 11, 2010 18:02:48 GMT -5
No, he is above the Angels. HE is the archangel meaning the highest angel. Is Jesus the archangel? What does the Bible tell us regarding this question?
Perhaps the most frequently quoted passages to make the case that Jesus was not and is not an angel are found at Hebrews 1:5, 13 and 2:5 which are translated this way in the Revised Standard Version:
Hebrews 1:5 - "For to what angel did God ever say, ‘Thou art my Son...’"
Hebrews 1:13 - "But to what angel has he ever said, ‘Sit at my right hand...’"
Hebrews 2:5 - "For it was not to angels that God subjected the world to come..."
Since God said to Jesus ‘Thou art my Son’, ‘Sit at my right hand’ and subjected the coming world to him, then it would appear Jesus is not an angel, unless Jesus is an angel in a way that differentiates him from the others.
To illustrate this point, look at Psalm 82:7, where Jehovah said to Israelite judges:
"Nevertheless, you shall die like men and fall like any prince." (Revised Standard Version)
Does the expression "you shall die like men" mean that those judges were not men or does it mean that they were being differentiated from ordinary men? In kind, the Hebrew passages could be complying with this same idea, that is, that Jesus though an angel, is to be distinguished from "ordinary" angels.
With Pharaoh’s armies pursuing them, Moses and the Israelites were accompanied by an angel through the miraculously parted Red Sea. At Exodus 14:19-22, we find:
"Then the angel of the true God who was going ahead of the camp of Israel departed and went to their rear, and the pillar of cloud departed from their van and stood in the rear of them. So it came in between the camp of the Egyptians and the camp of Israel. On the one hand it proved to be a cloud together with darkness. On the other hand it kept lighting up the night. And this group did not come near that group all night long. Moses now stretched his hand out over the sea; and Jehovah began making the sea go back by a strong east wind all night long and converting the sea basin into dry ground and the waters being split apart. At length the sons of Israel went through the midst of the sea on dry land..."
The Apostle Paul identified the angel that followed them through the Red Sea at 1 Corinthians 10:1-4:
"Now I do not want you to be ignorant, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea and all got baptized into Moses by means of the cloud and of the sea; and all ate the same spiritual food and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they used to drink from the spiritual rock-mass that followed them, and that rock-mass meant the Christ."
Commenting on one aspect of the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, Apostle Paul wrote:
"because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God's trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. (1 Thessalonians 4:16) (NWT)
If Jesus is not the archangel in this event and he is superior to the archangel, then why would he perform this act as though he was someone of lower rank? Wouldn’t he be using an archangel’s voice because he is an archangel?
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