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Post by The Champ is Here! on May 10, 2010 9:11:00 GMT -5
Just throwing this out there The KJV is the most inaccurate translation we have ....says who? Biblical Scholars .....several of them
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Post by carly1988 on May 10, 2010 9:32:00 GMT -5
Biblical Scholars .....several of them The King James version has always been regarded as the most accurate version of the Bible my entire life and is the only version Ive ever heard be called "authentic". Now that being told, I can honestly say I can open that book up and not understand a damn word coming out of it. Its suppose to be exact translation into the English language 400 years go, which we clearly know our language has changed drastically. I always tell people to get the KJV and the New Revised Standard Version and use both as it will help to clear things up. Basically I think its unfair to say that any version of a Bible is "not as accurate" as the rest. Especially coming from Bible scholars. When it comes to things like Religion and The Bible, you have to rely on your personal feelings and thoughts and not what someone tells you on the interwebs.
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Post by The Champ is Here! on May 10, 2010 9:53:46 GMT -5
Biblical Scholars .....several of them The King James version has always been regarded as the most accurate version of the Bible my entire life and is the only version Ive ever heard be called "authentic". Now that being told, I can honestly say I can open that book up and not understand a damn word coming out of it. Its suppose to be exact translation into the English language 400 years go, which we clearly know our language has changed drastically. I always tell people to get the KJV and the New Revised Standard Version and use both as it will help to clear things up. Basically I think its unfair to say that any version of a Bible is "not as accurate" as the rest. Especially coming from Bible scholars. When it comes to things like Religion and The Bible, you have to rely on your personal feelings and thoughts and not what someone tells you on the interwebs. its not the interwebs i got it from It would be from both my Old and New Testament textbook, as well as other books on it I'm not saying its useless, but its not as accurate as say the NIV or NASB. It has to do with the way they translated tons of stuff, as well as what is is based on The KJV was translated from i believe Aramic, whereas NIV and NASB were translated from a Greek copy...we understand Greek better, so were able to translate it more accurately I also feel its silly for us to use a scripture that we honestly have difficulty understanding...thats why I prefer the 2 bible method...my choices being The Message and NASB But by all means, continue using the KJV, its still the bible, i was just throwing that out there you do raise a good point though, when you mention feelings and opinions thats been my issue with what Hulk said about there not being a trinity, and only using the Bible to defend it The Methodist Quadrilateral (or Wesley Quad) is used by countless biblical scholars when interperating the bible, and even the rabbai's of old did, even though it did not have that name it has 4 parts: Bible, History/tradition, Reason, and Experince...and you use all for to come to conclusions...obviously Bible is #1, and then the other 3 tend to be on the same playing field (this part can be debated, as Catholics would place history on level with the bible) if you don;t use this (or some other guidelines) to interprate, you can get some really zany stuff...like the website i found where someone condoned rape through the bible
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Post by Hulkamaniac on May 10, 2010 10:36:42 GMT -5
First of all, I'm curious what translation(s) you prefer. I had been quoting mainly from the New World Translation since you mentioned you were a Jehovah's Witness and that's the translation most Jehovah's witnesses prefer. If you'll tell me what translation(s) you prefer I'll stick to those. You can find pretty much any version on-line nowadays so it's no big deal. Anywho.....
This prophecy is a prophecy of John the Baptist. Everyone would agree on that. John the Baptist is to prepare in the way for Jehovah.
Yes, this is John the Baptist again. He is preparing the way for Jesus here. Jesus is Jehovah in flesh.
I'm confused by what you're trying to say here. My quote was from the New World Translation, not the KJV. The He referenced here is God (which you get from 3:15). The NIV and the ASV as you referenced both refer to God here using the pronoun He. The KJV takes it one step further and says "God was made flesh........."
Correct. As of the OT at this time, God was not made flesh.
Have you considered (italics are all mine)
Exodus 24:11 - But God did not raise his hand against these leaders of the Israelites; they saw God, and they ate and drank. (NIV)
Gen 17:1 - Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am God Almighty ; Walk before Me, and be blameless" (NASB)
Exodus 6:2-3 - “God spoke further to Moses and said to him, "I am the LORD; and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name, LORD, I did not make Myself known to them.” (NASB)
Acts 7:2 - "And he [Stephen] said, 'Hear me, brethren and fathers! The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran...'" (NASB)
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Post by carly1988 on May 10, 2010 10:40:17 GMT -5
I think the better question is why do Jehovah Witnesses come to my door 3 times a ing week and try to get me to change my beliefs. Seriously, If i wanted to change I would change.
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Post by The Champ is Here! on May 10, 2010 10:45:56 GMT -5
I think the better question is why do Jehovah Witnesses come to my door 3 times a ing week and try to get me to change my beliefs. Seriously, If i wanted to change I would change. That may be the greatest question of all time Also, Hulk, not sure if you were directing that at me, but I am not JW...I'm a Christian
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Post by Hulkamaniac on May 10, 2010 10:48:34 GMT -5
its not the interwebs i got it from It would be from both my Old and New Testament textbook, as well as other books on it I'm not saying its useless, but its not as accurate as say the NIV or NASB. It has to do with the way they translated tons of stuff, as well as what is is based on The KJV was translated from i believe Aramic, whereas NIV and NASB were translated from a Greek copy...we understand Greek better, so were able to translate it more accurately I don't claim to be an expert on the NIV and NASB translations or any other translation for that matter. I know that the KJV was translated from both Greek and Aramaic (Hebrew). The OT was written originally in Aramaic. The NT was written in Greek. If they are indeed translating the OT from Greek, then they are translating a translation which is not the best way to do a translation. There you and I are going to have to agree to disagree. In my mind, the Bible is the beginning and the end of it. It's the ultimate source of Truth IMO. I use the Bible to interpret itself. If you find a scripture that appears to say one thing, then we need to look through the Bible to see if there are other scriptures that say the exact same thing. If the verses conflict, then we need to go back and look at the original verse and see if we're looking at it in it's proper context, etc...... That all being said, I'm not tossing commentaries out the window altogether. They can be useful to shed light on difficult passages. I don't look at them as a source for Truth though.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on May 10, 2010 10:49:39 GMT -5
I think the better question is why do Jehovah Witnesses come to my door 3 times a ing week and try to get me to change my beliefs. Seriously, If i wanted to change I would change. That may be the greatest question of all time Also, Hulk, not sure if you were directing that at me, but I am not JW...I'm a Christian No, I was directing it at Bane who I'm under the impression is a Jehovah's Witness.
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Post by Angel Beast on May 10, 2010 10:51:09 GMT -5
Of course you are right. Christendom has certainly gone to war and blessed weapons. However none of Jehovah's Witnesses were in those trenches. You can be assured of that. We don't go to war. We will not fight and kill another. That is well documented evidence. Because of our neutral stand many of us have been in prisons for not using weapons of war. Remember what I said before. If it is not in the bible, don't do it. Re read our posts. that is the first thing I talk about. War. MANY religions teach it is ok to kill. Not Jehovah's witnesses. Plenty of Protestants and Catholics among other relgions have gone to war. I think maybe us and the Amish are the only ones who haven't. Unitarian Universalists are anti-war and killing. If I had to pick a religion, I'd go with them. Wicca is also very much anti-war.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2010 10:53:45 GMT -5
I am a Roman Catholic.
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Post by bane on May 10, 2010 11:42:44 GMT -5
Matthew 10:. 7 As YOU go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of the heavens has drawn near.’ 8 Cure sick people, raise up dead persons, make lepers clean, expel demons. YOU received free, give free. 9 Do not procure gold or silver or copper for YOUR girdle purses, 10 or a food pouch for the trip, or two undergarments, or sandals or a staff; for the worker deserves his food. 11 “Into whatever city or village YOU enter, search out who in it is deserving, and stay there until YOU leave. 12 When YOU are entering into the house, greet the household; 13 and if the house is deserving, let the peace YOU wish it come upon it; but if it is not deserving, let the peace from YOU return upon YOU.
We go not to be pests but we go as Jesus instructed us to do.
Matthew 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”
He tells us to preach the good news. And it IS good news. It was pointed out earlier that once the 144,000 has been fullfilled in heaven from the prophecies in Revelation what would happen to all the millions of witnesses on Earth? Well...What was the original purpose of Adam and Eve? Were they to die after a few years and live in heaven?
Psalms 37:29 The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it.
That's right. Jehovah wants his people to live forever, right here on Earth. Remember Jesus talking to the man on the stake? You will be with me in paradise? He certainly wasn't talking about heaven but the Earth. The earth will be transformed into a paradise like God ORIGINALLY intended it to be.
Matthew 5:5 “Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.
If we all live in heaven WHO will inherit the Earth? Revelation points to a Great crowd of people there.
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Post by arnanderson on May 10, 2010 13:29:04 GMT -5
My God, you don't stop do you? For someone who tells other people that they are not good Christians, you do know that you also broke one of the 10 Commandments by saying the Lords name in vein right?
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Post by bane on May 10, 2010 14:31:26 GMT -5
My God, you don't stop do you? For someone who tells other people that they are not good Christians, you do know that you also broke one of the 10 Commandments by saying the Lords name in vein right? Actually God is not a name. It is a title. Much like Obama. That is his name but President is his title. Psalms 83:18 which was removed from most Bibles because people don't want to know God's real name is Jehovah.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2010 14:33:55 GMT -5
Again, Jehovah is a mistranslation from YHWH...rabbis added the vowel marks from Adonai to YHWH to keep people from saying the sacred name, then when translated into English we got the incorrect Jehovah...
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Post by arnanderson on May 10, 2010 14:43:09 GMT -5
For someone who tells other people that they are not good Christians, you do know that you also broke one of the 10 Commandments by saying the Lords name in vein right? Actually God is not a name. It is a title. Much like Obama. That is his name but President is his title. Psalms 83:18 which was removed from most Bibles because people don't want to know God's real name is Jehovah. God is a name. When people pray, and they pray to God who do you think they are praying too? Also you do know that the Bible was written years after his death so you can not take literally what everything that the Bible states as the word of law as it is from memory. How many conversations from 10 years ago can you state exactly what happend? It is open to judge what the reader thinks.
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Post by bane on May 10, 2010 15:19:43 GMT -5
Actually God is not a name. It is a title. Much like Obama. That is his name but President is his title. Psalms 83:18 which was removed from most Bibles because people don't want to know God's real name is Jehovah. God is a name. When people pray, and they pray to God who do you think they are praying too? Also you do know that the Bible was written years after his death so you can not take literally what everything that the Bible states as the word of law as it is from memory. How many conversations from 10 years ago can you state exactly what happend? It is open to judge what the reader thinks. Clippo, but that is true with EVERY SINGLE bible name. Jesus isn't Jesus you know yet people don't have a problem calling him Jesus do we? Arn, No God is not a name. You are a man right? If I just called you man, that doesn't make me personally know you. Man is a title. Man is what you are. But it is not your name. 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work. Notice ALL scriptures in the bible are inspired of God. The writers even though some 10 years later or even more were inspired by God to write it. That means there is not mistakes in the overall book. The way you are sounding as if you may believe SOME of the Bible, and other parts not so much. The Bible is not a buffett where you can pick and choose. Either it is ALL from God, or none of it.
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Post by arnanderson on May 10, 2010 15:37:54 GMT -5
Arn, No God is not a name. You are a man right? If I just called you man, that doesn't make me personally know you. Man is a title. Man is what you are. But it is not your name. Man is a gender Bane, not a title. A title is Mr., Miss, or Mrs. Do you think Buddhists think God's name is Jehovah? Do I say God Jesus when I pray, or do I just say God, or Jesus? Why don't you call him Jehovah since that is his name, and not Mr. since you believe God is a title? Where in the Bible, or where did God say you can't salute a flag, or celebrate a Holiday that is nothing more then a Holiday created by bussineses to sell stuff? Well the Bible does have mistakes. Nothing is perfect especially a Book that was written decades later by not even Jesus himself. It was verbally communicated. And like I said how many conversations can you even remember or give a accurate account some 10 years later? It is like the ole telephone game we use to play at school where at the end of 30 people you got something totally different then what it started out to be. You pick and choose what you find to be the most accurate, and that you believe can be correct with interpretations. Going from one language to another alone shows that there can be discourse in what is said in the bible.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2010 15:40:02 GMT -5
God is a name. When people pray, and they pray to God who do you think they are praying too? Also you do know that the Bible was written years after his death so you can not take literally what everything that the Bible states as the word of law as it is from memory. How many conversations from 10 years ago can you state exactly what happend? It is open to judge what the reader thinks. Clippo, but that is true with EVERY SINGLE bible name. Jesus isn't Jesus you know yet people don't have a problem calling him Jesus do we? Arn, No God is not a name. You are a man right? If I just called you man, that doesn't make me personally know you. Man is a title. Man is what you are. But it is not your name. 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work. Notice ALL scriptures in the bible are inspired of God. The writers even though some 10 years later or even more were inspired by God to write it. That means there is not mistakes in the overall book. The way you are sounding as if you may believe SOME of the Bible, and other parts not so much. The Bible is not a buffett where you can pick and choose. Either it is ALL from God, or none of it. You're right, Jesus' name is actually Yeshua; that's what he was called when he walked the planet. Anyway, if we can call YHWH, Jehovah (incorrect name), why can't we just call him God?
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Post by bane on May 10, 2010 17:47:17 GMT -5
Arn, No God is not a name. You are a man right? If I just called you man, that doesn't make me personally know you. Man is a title. Man is what you are. But it is not your name. Man is a gender Bane, not a title. A title is Mr., Miss, or Mrs. Do you think Buddhists think God's name is Jehovah? Do I say God Jesus when I pray, or do I just say God, or Jesus? Actually read this...Matthew 6:9 “YOU must pray, then, this way: “‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. 10 Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth. 11 Give us today our bread for this day; 12 and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. 13 And do not bring us into temptation, but deliver us from the wicked one.’ 14 “For if YOU forgive men their trespasses, YOUR heavenly Father will also forgive YOU; 15 whereas if YOU do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will YOUR Father forgive YOUR trespasses. So one doesn't pray to Jesus at all. You pray only to the Father through Jesus name.Why don't you call him Jehovah since that is his name, and not Mr. since you believe God is a title? Where in the Bible, or where did God say you can't salute a flag, or celebrate a Holiday that is nothing more then a Holiday created by bussineses to sell stuff? I DO call him Jehovah. He is Almighty God Jehovah. We are known as Jehovah's Witnesses.Well the Bible does have mistakes. Nothing is perfect especially a Book that was written decades later by not even Jesus himself. It was verbally communicated. And like I said how many conversations can you even remember or give a accurate account some 10 years later? It is like the ole telephone game we use to play at school where at the end of 30 people you got something totally different then what it started out to be. You pick and choose what you find to be the most accurate, and that you believe can be correct with interpretations. Going from one language to another alone shows that there can be discourse in what is said in the bible. It's different from your examples because God inspired it as the text brings out. God doesn't inspire someone going around a room saying things repeated to the last man. So WHAT do you believe about the bible? Because the way you are speaking how can you trust any of it?
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Post by Hulkamaniac on May 10, 2010 18:02:34 GMT -5
So one doesn't pray to Jesus at all. You pray only to the Father through Jesus name. I'm not sure which one of you wrote this as you have the bad habit of responding inside someone's quote. Stephen when he was being stoned prayed directly to Jesus in Acts 7:59 - "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."
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