|
|
Post by sean™ on Aug 9, 2010 9:11:51 GMT -5
Right before Silva locked in the choke, he caught Sonnen with a pretty nice straight right that looked like it hurt him, since Sonnen's first reaction was to grab the side of his face, and lean down towards Silva, which more or less gave Silva the opportunity he was looking for.
Not sure about the sidechoke. I'll check the recording I have when I get home. I give Sonnen made props for his ground game, but to be fair, he really only took down Silva a small handful of times. In the second, he caught a somewhat stupid kick from Silva (did you really think he wouldn't be looking for kicks?) and in the third, Silva slipped and Sonnen took advantage. The reversal after Anderson took down Sonnen was pretty good though. Only rivaled by Alves' last chance attempt reversal in the 3rd on Fitch.
|
|
|
|
Post by Controversial Maverick PUNK on Aug 9, 2010 10:56:10 GMT -5
^ Say what you want. I just think after getting his ass kicked for nearly all 5 rounds and with less than 2 minutes left on the clock in the final round, in my opinion, slapping on a triangle after not being able to, as you said for the ENTIRE FIGHT, is extremely lucky. I don't care what you say. If he didn't slap it on, he would NOT be champion right now. All there is to it. And I noticed you completely avoided my question and I know why. You were  ing dead wrong about Sonnen and you know it. You said it was laughable that people were actually picking him to win and look how it turned out. He pounded your pick into an oblivion for the majority of the fight and made a simple error and got caught. I was picking Sonnen to win and I certainly didn't think it was laughable. He did so well for himself, there's no question he should get an automatic rematch. NOBODY in the history of MMA was able to do to Anderson Silva what Chael Sonnen did last night and that speaks volumes. I don't give a flying what you say. Sonnen "pounded Silva into oblivion"? That's funny, because Silva barely had a mark on him - compared to Sonnen. Sonnen got a few shots in, but nothing that really hurt Silva, or was good enough to finish the fight. |
|
|
|
Post by Boquest on Aug 9, 2010 11:06:15 GMT -5
^ Say what you want. I just think after getting his ass kicked for nearly all 5 rounds and with less than 2 minutes left on the clock in the final round, in my opinion, slapping on a triangle after not being able to, as you said for the ENTIRE FIGHT, is extremely lucky. I don't care what you say. If he didn't slap it on, he would NOT be champion right now. All there is to it. And I noticed you completely avoided my question and I know why. You were ing dead wrong about Sonnen and you know it. You said it was laughable that people were actually picking him to win and look how it turned out. He pounded your pick into an oblivion for the majority of the fight and made a simple error and got caught. I was picking Sonnen to win and I certainly didn't think it was laughable. He did so well for himself, there's no question he should get an automatic rematch. NOBODY in the history of MMA was able to do to Anderson Silva what Chael Sonnen did last night and that speaks volumes. I don't give a flying what you say. You pick the underdog for practically every fight. Even a blind squirrel can find a nut every once in awhile. I like this one a little bit better: Even a stopped clock, is right twice a day.Anyways. I always hate when people say "lucky," in MMA. Did Anderson try to get the submission? Yes. Did Serra try to hit GSP when he threw that punch? Yes. I dont see how any of that can be lucky. The individual attempted something, and they were successful. Its not like they closed there eyes and started throwing wind-mill punches into thin air....  Now if that connected... |
|
|
|
Post by Bartman on Aug 9, 2010 11:14:53 GMT -5
What happened? Filho caught him in an armbar, Sonnen verbally tapped and then acted as if he didn't do anything. Just watched that fight, and ironically enough, Josh Rosenthal was the referee there too. Hopefully someone can clear this up for me because I wasn't too familar with the incident until someone mentioned it recently. Even though there was really no chance of him escaping that armbar without Filho breaking, is him yelling in pain considered a verbal tap? |
|
|
|
Post by sean™ on Aug 9, 2010 11:19:17 GMT -5
To those saying Silva got lucky, might I suggest you go back and watch the replay. That way, you could see Silva connect with a straight right from the bottom, Sonnen lean over him, holding his face in pain, giving Silva the opening he'd been looking for all night to slap on the triangle. The only person that got "lucky" on Saturday was Struve, since the KO punch he threw kind of came out of no where. Granted, even then, he did connect with a shot prior to the ko as well. Beyond that, he was dominated all first round, and wasn't really doing much besides back-pettling in the second. On a different note, how ing sick was the replay of Clay's jaw breaking punch? Watched that about 5 times and I still cringe. |
|
|
|
Post by Controversial Maverick PUNK on Aug 9, 2010 11:35:16 GMT -5
Fair enough Sonnen dominated for 4 & a half rounds & looked great in doing it. However how the hell was that triangle "LUCKY"  ? A BJJ Black Belt going for a move is years of training. Sonnen yet again showing a weak submission defence just shows up a training weakness. Anyone saying Anderson was lucky is insane. That would imply that everytime a fighter ends a fight with a strike or submission was lucky! It was lucky because it was in the dying minutes of the 5th and final round. That was basically the ONLY good thing Silva did the ENTIRE fight and it paid off. If he didn't slap that triangle on, he wouldn't be champion right now. Simple as that. He got so ing lucky by being able to slap that on in that last 2 minutes of the final round. Sonnen will have another shot and will win the next time. He simply made a "Fedor-like" error and it cost him. He will get another chance and rightfully so. I don't care if Silva won last night. Sonnen was the better fighter in losing than Silva was in winning. The fact is that Silva was able to "slap that triangle on", which is why he is still champion today - simple as that. Sonnen won't win the re-match (if there is one)... Silva will know what to expect, next time around. Sonnen had his best chance on Saturday night - and he blew it. Oh, and no he shouldn't get an immediate rematch. There was no judging controversy, no extenuating circumstances... he lost, he was a loser - plain and simple. |
|
|
|
Post by sean™ on Aug 9, 2010 11:45:26 GMT -5
I don't think Sonnen should get an automatic rematch. This isn't because I'm a Silva fan, but because I'm an MMA fan. I want new, fresh match ups. The sole reason I was behind the Shogun/Machida rematch was because of how close the original match was, to the point where it was hard to really pick a winner without splitting hairs.
This isn't the same case. Did Sonnen win the first 4 rounds? Of course he did, but at the end of the night, he tapped out. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. He was caught in a submission hold, and tapped out because of it. That's a decisive victory. As much as I hate Frank Mir, he had a point during the build up to his rematch about Brock tapping out. Regardless how much Brock was dominating him, Brock tapped out...said he was done...said I can't take anymore.
Sonnen did all he could in 4 rounds, and got caught in the 5th. End of story.
|
|
PdW2kX
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jan 8, 2007 23:34:52 GMT -5
Posts: 4,551
|
Post by PdW2kX on Aug 9, 2010 14:06:42 GMT -5
I think Jake Rossen over at Sherdog perfectly summed up my feelings on Sonnen/Silva.
"Sonnen lost as respectably as you can. But it’s still a loss. He had an advantage for 23 minutes and couldn’t finish the fight. When Silva had the advantage for ten seconds, he could. Who’s the better fighter? "
That said, I think Sonnen has more of a claim to an immediate rematch than most people, but I'd love to see Silva/Belfort and I think Belfort may actually be the one to finally dismantle Silva. He's looked just beastly at Middleweight.
|
|
|
|
Post by sean™ on Aug 9, 2010 14:10:43 GMT -5
I wrote a pretty lengthy response to Dave Meltzer's column about Sonnen "deserving" an automatic rematch. I hope I get a response.
|
|
Greensborohill
Main Eventer
CHAMPION
Joined on: Jan 14, 2007 14:44:44 GMT -5
Posts: 2,657
|
Post by Greensborohill on Aug 9, 2010 14:24:44 GMT -5
I wrote a pretty lengthy response to Dave Meltzer's column about Sonnen "deserving" an automatic rematch. I hope I get a response. I never understood immediate rematches when the person that lost got finished. It's stupid. I don't think Todd Duffee should get an immediate rematch with Rusow either. |
|
|
|
Post by sean™ on Aug 9, 2010 14:40:16 GMT -5
I still don't even see why Penn is getting a rematch. It's not like it was a close call or a really debatable decision. Edgar won, pretty clear in my opinion.
|
|
Greensborohill
Main Eventer
CHAMPION
Joined on: Jan 14, 2007 14:44:44 GMT -5
Posts: 2,657
|
Post by Greensborohill on Aug 9, 2010 14:55:33 GMT -5
I still don't even see why Penn is getting a rematch. It's not like it was a close call or a really debatable decision. Edgar won, pretty clear in my opinion. I think we collectively just proved a point. If you finish someone there is no debate. If you don't finish one then it's almost always debatable who won. I think the Edgar/Penn fight was real close but there is no question that Silva & Mike Russow both won their matches. . . hence no immediate rematch should be given to either Duffee or Sonnen. |
|
|
|
Post by Boquest on Aug 9, 2010 15:17:45 GMT -5
IMO Penn got a re-match because Gray isn't marketable enough.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hawks_NFC West Champions on Aug 9, 2010 15:50:40 GMT -5
I still don't even see why Penn is getting a rematch. It's not like it was a close call or a really debatable decision. Edgar won, pretty clear in my opinion. I think we collectively just proved a point. If you finish someone there is no debate. If you don't finish one then it's almost always debatable who won. I think the Edgar/Penn fight was real close but there is no question that Silva & Mike Russow both won their matches. . . hence no immediate rematch should be given to either Duffee or Sonnen. This is how I see it: Frankie beat Penn, and when watching live, thought Frankie was winning. I don't think there is any need for an imediate rematch, as Frankie obviously was the better fighter that night. Penn should earn his rematch (and yes, I do think Frankie will win again). HOWEVER, Silva was pretty much untouchable his entire UFC career, and for Chael Sonnen, a guy about 95 percent of the MMA world said had no chance went out there and pummeled Silva for 5 rounds until Silva locked in a triangle to submit him. If BJ Penn is getting an automatic rematch, Chael Sonnen, without a doubt, should be too. And people saying Silva "got lucky" (and this is coming from one of the biggest Chael Sonnen fans on here), he didn't. Silva is one of the smartest fighters, and you could tell that entire 5th round he was waiting to lock in either a triangle or armbar, whichever would give first. Silva WON that night, but Sonnen backed up EVERYTHING he said he was going to do, and then some. He made Silva look like a human being. No man can say they did that, except Sonnen. That's why he should get a rematch. And for anyone who says that isn't marketable is INSANE. That would be one of the highest bought fights, at least in my opinion. |
|
|
|
Post by sean™ on Aug 9, 2010 15:59:43 GMT -5
I don't think anyone is doubting that Sonnen showed up, and backed up all he said he was going to do. However, he didn't address his own weakness, which is submissions, and fell victim to it in the end.
I wrote this little paragraph to MMAJunkie in hopes of getting in their Sunday Junkie post. I guess we'll see if it's "good enough" but it roughly explains why I oppose Sonnen's rematch.
|
|
|
|
Post by sean™ on Aug 9, 2010 16:01:17 GMT -5
I still don't even see why Penn is getting a rematch. It's not like it was a close call or a really debatable decision. Edgar won, pretty clear in my opinion. I think we collectively just proved a point. If you finish someone there is no debate. If you don't finish one then it's almost always debatable who won. I think the Edgar/Penn fight was real close but there is no question that Silva & Mike Russow both won their matches. . . hence no immediate rematch should be given to either Duffee or Sonnen. I do agree with you on these points. Even the Lesnar fight could be used as an example. Was he running through Mir like a freight train? Yes he was, but at the end of the day, he got caught in a submission, couldn't get out, and tapped out. Fight ended. |
|
Greensborohill
Main Eventer
CHAMPION
Joined on: Jan 14, 2007 14:44:44 GMT -5
Posts: 2,657
|
Post by Greensborohill on Aug 9, 2010 16:05:49 GMT -5
I think we collectively just proved a point. If you finish someone there is no debate. If you don't finish one then it's almost always debatable who won. I think the Edgar/Penn fight was real close but there is no question that Silva & Mike Russow both won their matches. . . hence no immediate rematch should be given to either Duffee or Sonnen. , and when watching live, thought Frankie was winning. I don't think there is any need for an imediate rematch, as Frankie obviously was the better fighter that night. Penn should earn his rematch (and yes, I do think Frankie will win again). HOWEVER, Silva was pretty much untouchable his entire UFC career, and for Chael Sonnen, a guy about 95 percent of the MMA world said had no chance went out there and pummeled Silva for 5 rounds until Silva locked in a triangle to submit him. If BJ Penn is getting an automatic rematch, Chael Sonnen, without a doubt, should be too. And people saying Silva "got lucky" (and this is coming from one of the biggest Chael Sonnen fans on here), he didn't. Silva is one of the smartest fighters, and you could tell that entire 5th round he was waiting to lock in either a triangle or armbar, whichever would give first. Silva WON that night, but Sonnen backed up EVERYTHING he said he was going to do, and then some. He made Silva look like a human being. No man can say they did that, except Sonnen. That's why he should get a rematch. And for anyone who says that isn't marketable is INSANE. That would be one of the highest bought fights, at least in my opinion. How I see it is that Sonnen lost to Silva. . therefore no immediate rematch. have him fight Okami or Leben first. |
|
|
|
Post by Mr. Orange on Aug 9, 2010 16:11:41 GMT -5
It was lucky because it was in the dying minutes of the 5th and final round. That was basically the ONLY good thing Silva did the ENTIRE fight and it paid off. If he didn't slap that triangle on, he wouldn't be champion right now. Simple as that. He got so ing lucky by being able to slap that on in that last 2 minutes of the final round. Sonnen will have another shot and will win the next time. He simply made a "Fedor-like" error and it cost him. He will get another chance and rightfully so. I don't care if Silva won last night. Sonnen was the better fighter in losing than Silva was in winning. The fact is that Silva was able to "slap that triangle on", which is why he is still champion today - simple as that. Sonnen won't win the re-match (if there is one)... Silva will know what to expect, next time around. Sonnen had his best chance on Saturday night - and he blew it. Oh, and no he shouldn't get an immediate rematch. There was no judging controversy, no extenuating circumstances... he lost, he was a loser - plain and simple. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard and you aren't the only one who's said it. You think Silva DIDN'T expect Sonnen to use punches to set up take downs? Silva didn't think he'd eventually be fighting off his back? He didn't expect a high caliber wrestler to take him down? YES HE DID. He just couldn't STOP it. He knew what Chael was going to do the whole time and had no answer for 23 minutes. |
|
|
|
Post by sean™ on Aug 9, 2010 16:45:59 GMT -5
Outside the first round, Silva got the better of Sonnen in the stand up game. Did he rock him in the first? Yes, but that's not my definition of "getting the better". Silva connected with more shots standing up in the last 4 rounds then Sonnen did standing the entire time.
Honestly, despite the fact that I am eating my words about Sonnen, I don't see how more people didn't see that fight panning out that way. When Silva faced Lutter, he really didn't have an answer for his takedowns, and was able to reverse him one time. Granted he did win that bout by Triangle choke as well, after kicking Travis in the face which caused him to basically fall into the choke, but he couldn't really stop him from taking him down or advancing in the ground game. The same somewhat goes for Henderson, to which Silva was able to stop him from advancing the position, but couldn't stop him from taking him down. The main reason Anderson was able to take him down was because he rocked him with several shots prior.
It would seem to me that Anderson has problems defending takedowns from high level wrestlers, as well as issues keeping these guys from advancing their position. On the other side of the coin though, Silva does have some nasty strikes from the bottom. Lutter technically tapped due to the elbow strikes while in the triangle choke, and Sonnen was not only severly cut from an elbow from the bottom, but also rocked from a right from the bottom which lead to the triangle.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mr. Old School™ on Aug 9, 2010 17:28:22 GMT -5
^ Say what you want guys. I am entitled to my opinion and I say Anderson got lucky with that submission. With less than 2 minutes on the clock in the final round, he puts on a submission that he wasn't able to put on for 23 minutes before that. I call that being lucky, big time, no matter how good the guy is.
I guess it helps having Cock-Puncher in your corner, doesn't it?? LOL.
|
|
+nod+of+approval.gif)
