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Post by DgenerationX092 on Dec 19, 2010 6:07:08 GMT -5
That was during a war where the battle was intense and the soldiers were scarce. In a fight amongst ourselves, there wasnt time to be picky. They needed soldiers, and they needed them ASAP. Our war today however, is pretty much over. There's an abundance of soldiers at the ready. And besides, you cant hide skin color naturally. The war is pretty much over yet we won't be out of Afghanistan until at least 2016? We need Arabic translators, many of them were gay people, but now we have a shortage. The military can always use more soldiers. If I wasn't so caught up on the whole killing people thing, I'd sign up, but I wouldn't be quiet if talking about my personal life when I'm with my buddies. You don't even have to come out as gay to be accused of being gay and being kicked out. You could be caught going to gay clubs or having an abundance of gay friends, someone not too friendly notices and reports you. The military investigates and figures well, they seem like they are gay, so they are gone.I don't think they have ever done a study about how many GLBT Americans would have gone into the military if DADT was not in place. We know that over 13,000 have been kicked out. Now THAT I strongly disagree with. If I support DADT, I want it to follow those rules. No way should someone be kicked for suspicion. If youre just in a club, no wrong doing. Unless you admit homosexuality, or do something physical to expose yourself (kissing at the minimum), then you shouldnt have to worry about expulsion.
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Post by slappy on Dec 19, 2010 8:15:08 GMT -5
Battle's not over yet. Obama could still veto it. But I doubt it. The only way he'd do that is if he doesn't want to be re-elected.
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Post by T R W on Dec 19, 2010 10:21:58 GMT -5
Now what are people going to do to get out of military service?
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Post by Kliquid on Dec 19, 2010 10:27:03 GMT -5
Ok, I understand that. However, what about those soldiers who are uncomfortable being within a few feet of sleeping quarters of a homosexual? Or those who have to change in front of a homosexual? Or those who have to shower in either communal shower or a stall next to a homosexual? Do we really want to put soldier's lives in danger b/c they are becoming preoccupied with the uncomfortability? War is uncomfortable enough. We can't just go with the, "people are uncomfortable with it" theory because it opens up a world of possibilities for people to be "uncomfortable" with. Are we going to say that Muslims cannot fight for the U.S. Military, too? How about blacks? How about women? I guarantee there are a TON of people in the military who are uncomfortable with at least one of these issues, if not all of them. But we don't make those things illegal because it's simply not rational. These are people we're talking about who have rights to the same quality of life as everyone else. We do not discriminate against people at a federal level in this country. Then lets talk about the gay person. Knowing how much ridicule and bias there is STILL towards homosexuality, do we really want this to become a part of war? Hazing by fellow soldiers. Not being tolerated and not happening are 2 different things. What about people in command? They find out you are gay and they start treating you differently. A bias can always exist, regardless if the person is trying to be or not. Biases are going to happen regardless of if someone is gay or not... We can't regulate morality. I think gays and lesbians, as a group, understand that there are a lot of people who "don't agree" with their lifestyle. They understand that sometimes they are going to have to "prove themselves" to people who may not believe they are capable of doing the same job as another person. Honestly, it's a part of life. If you're fat, skinny, short, tall, stupid, etc... You're going to be discriminated against in some way, throughout your life. That's just the way it is. But do we keep these people out of the military? No. What about homosexuals who are in charge? A general, colonel, Lieutenant? Some guys might not trust a homosexual man to make decisions in war. Might not believe in someone who is gay is going to keep them alive without having that stereotype bias that says, gays will run from a battle. The military teaches that you are to respect the badge and NOT the man individually. If you're uncomfortable serving under an officer simply because of his or her sexual preference, then you are not a correctly trained military soldier and should be back in Basic training learning the basics of respect. If you're still incapable of acting like an adult, you can ask to be transferred. If that request is denied, you have the choice of a dishonorable discharge. This is how it should be. These officers' sexual preferences are not putting peoples lives in danger. How about gays that are trying to work their way up the ranks? Announcing yourself to be gay and expecting a bunch of old guys, who are generally more bias than those who are younger....are they gonna pass you by b/c you are gay? Will they believe you to be not fit to lead? Again, there will be biases across the board for all kinds of different things. Is it going to be tougher for a gay man or lesbian woman to move up the ranks in the military? Probably so. But I think they understand that. Speaking of age.....a lot of soldiers are of the youthful age. They arent mature to understand civil rights. The idea of the civil rights movement for the blacks some 50 years ago is lost on that generation. Its nothing more than a story in a history book. Homosexuality is the new civil rights movement. While its not the same, it still bears many similarities. Is it fair to not only the heterosexual soldier who does not want to be associated with a homosexual and is it fair to the homosexual who is subjected to those bias' and fears and hate? Being black isnt something that could be hidden. Being gay can be hidden. They say time and place. There is always a time and place. Is the middle of war the time and place to reveal that you are gay? Again, if you're incapable of being mature enough to fight next to someone who has a different sexual preference than you, then you should probably not be fighting in the military. Like you said, these issues are very similar to the Civil Rights movement and I don't understand how people can have such an ass-backwards point of view when it comes to something so similar. If we allow blacks to fight in the military, then why not gays? Fighting in a war means becoming an all-knowing, all-trusting brotherhood with your fellow soldiers. These people should know more about you than just about anyone, save maybe your immediate family. Being forced to keep your sexual preference out of the discussion is a violation of that trust and a kink what should be an unbreakable chain. These are people who will be trusting you with their lives, and vice versa. If you cannot trust them with something so pointless (it really is pointless to war...) as your sexual preference, then how can you really say you trust them? If anything, I say it's MORE dangerous to NOT tell them.
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Post by slappy on Dec 19, 2010 10:38:22 GMT -5
Now what are people going to do to get out of military service? I don't know if transgender people are allowed to serve openly, I'm thinking not, so they can always go that route.
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Post by Adam on Dec 19, 2010 12:55:41 GMT -5
I can't wait for the homophobic outrage...
Not in this board specifically, just in general.
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Post by slappy on Dec 19, 2010 12:56:41 GMT -5
I can't wait for the homophobic outrage... Not in this board specifically, just in general. If you read the comments section for the article on Yahoo, it is disgusting.
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PdW2kX
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Post by PdW2kX on Dec 19, 2010 13:15:37 GMT -5
All I'll say is that I personally feel that this has been a long time coming and I'm very glad that DADT has been repealed. Hate to "hit and run" this topic since it seems like there's some good debate going, but that's simply how I feel and I don't think anything's going to change that.
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gisles1414
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Let me hear you say OH YEAH!
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Post by gisles1414 on Dec 19, 2010 13:47:17 GMT -5
I was reading the Yahoo comments and I had to get this off my chest. This is a gay U.S. soldier. This is a straight U.S. soldier. Now, someone tell me. Is there a difference between these two brave men? The people against any brave gay man or lesbian woman serving in the military should be the ones serving if they want them out.
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JWC
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Post by JWC on Dec 19, 2010 17:08:11 GMT -5
I was reading the Yahoo comments and I had to get this off my chest. This is a gay U.S. soldier. This is a straight U.S. soldier. Now, someone tell me. Is there a difference between these two brave men? The people against any brave gay man or lesbian woman serving in the military should be the ones serving if they want them out. actualy the one on the top is aisan and the bottom is a white dude lol but i guess not but it really depends on the person
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Post by Adam on Dec 19, 2010 17:25:12 GMT -5
I can't wait for the homophobic outrage... Not in this board specifically, just in general. If you read the comments section for the article on Yahoo, it is disgusting. I've already read the comments Slappy and honestly don't see the point in doing so anymore. It's the same on every topic pertaining to gay rights. They're are just as much garbage as youtube comments.
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Post by twinn on Dec 19, 2010 17:38:26 GMT -5
Now what are people going to do to get out of military service? I know right? This was gonna be my plan if the draft comes back in the near future... The repeal is good for equality, but definitely bad for draft dodgers like myself... Oh well, I guess Canada will always be there
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Post by King Silva on Dec 19, 2010 19:04:31 GMT -5
^ LOL. No more lying. But yeah I think Showtime said was perfect. Don't like then you serve pendejo! What would they think if an openly gay soldier saved their life?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2010 22:04:12 GMT -5
This is great.
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Post by The UndyTaker on Dec 19, 2010 22:37:48 GMT -5
Now what are people going to do to get out of military service?
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Post by King Shocker the Monumentous on Dec 19, 2010 23:20:08 GMT -5
Riddle me this...will those who got booted for being gay be allowed to re-enlist?
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Post by slappy on Dec 19, 2010 23:35:38 GMT -5
Riddle me this...will those who got booted for being gay be allowed to re-enlist? I don't see why not.
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Dibiase # 1 Heel
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Post by Dibiase # 1 Heel on Dec 20, 2010 3:10:17 GMT -5
Now what are people going to do to get out of military service? I don't know if transgender people are allowed to serve openly, I'm thinking not, so they can always go that route. Or break your own legs.
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Post by slappy on Dec 20, 2010 7:05:30 GMT -5
I don't know if transgender people are allowed to serve openly, I'm thinking not, so they can always go that route. Or break your own legs. I'm not saying that's a good thing.
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KRAYZIE BONE
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Post by KRAYZIE BONE on Dec 20, 2010 21:01:04 GMT -5
You never said it, but it's a logical conclusion to draw. Why else would someone be uncomfortable sleeping near or changing in front of a gay person? Because of exactly what I said. Do all men think every woman wants to sleep with them? Or the reverse. So why should men and women be separated? Why shouldnt they shower together? Why shouldnt they sleep in close quarters with one another? Why shouldnt they change in front of one another? best post of the thread. I as a straight man would not want to get naked infront of a gay man for the same reason a woman would not want to get naked in front of me. I would seperate the gay person(s) in the same way a man and woman are seperated in certain regards. Its not about one being better then the other in anyway. DADT should have been left as is.
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