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Post by slappy on Dec 20, 2010 21:38:20 GMT -5
Because of exactly what I said. Do all men think every woman wants to sleep with them? Or the reverse. So why should men and women be separated? Why shouldnt they shower together? Why shouldnt they sleep in close quarters with one another? Why shouldnt they change in front of one another? best post of the thread. I as a straight man would not want to get naked infront of a gay man for the same reason a woman would not want to get naked in front of me. I would seperate the gay person(s) in the same way a man and woman are seperated in certain regards. Its not about one being better then the other in anyway. DADT should have been left as is. Are you so conceited that you think every gay man would want you? |
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Post by Kliquid on Dec 20, 2010 21:51:18 GMT -5
Are you so conceited that you think every gay man would want you? In fairness, if you're going to make the case that men and women should be separated, then you should probably also make the case that men and gay men, woman and gay women should be separated... When naked, of course. |
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Post by T R W on Dec 20, 2010 22:34:21 GMT -5
I have a very good friend who is gay, and he very much likes going to the gym locker room.
he may not want to screw everyone in there, but he quite often enjoys the view. If I were in the women's showers, I wouldn't necessarily want to sleep with them all, but I would certainly be looking at most likely all of them.
I have no problem with gays serving in the military, and I am glad they are able to openly now. But it IS complicated.
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Post by Oskanowski on Dec 20, 2010 22:57:39 GMT -5
If a gay man likes you ( and you're a man. ) I take it as a compliment.... Wait, nobody is talking about that? Oh.. Just nevermind then.. 
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35F20
Main Eventer
Theirs was not to reason why....
Joined on: May 8, 2002 22:12:35 GMT -5
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Post by 35F20 on Dec 20, 2010 23:27:39 GMT -5
I am really happy that this is finally gone. I'm coming up on my 4 year anniversary in the Army and have known numerous homosexual soldiers who are outstanding examples of professionalism and courage that are doing great things all around the world. I have seen several people pretend the be gay though in order to get discharged under DADT. In fact, of the 5 people I have seen discharged under DADT, only 1 was actually gay.
As for the whole shower issue, about 2/3 of military showers I have used have dividers so if you want to keep yourself "covered" and unseen you can do so. Infact, one of the barracks I lived in had a private bathroom for every two room with 2 shower stalls with actual shower curtains shared by 4 people. One of the soldiers in our adjourning room actually was gay, but it was never an issue.
As a Non-Commissioned Officer all I care about when it comes to my soldiers is the flag on their shoulder. I could care less who they go to home to at night, which person they pray to, etc. as long as it isn't illegal and doesn't interfere with the mission. I have seen countless straight soldiers impede unit moral and readiness because of their lazy, incompetent, whoreish wives. I have seen straight female soldiers become a barracks doorknob and either create drama, get pregnant, or spread STDs which is far more damaging to a unit.
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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on Dec 20, 2010 23:56:43 GMT -5
Because of exactly what I said. Do all men think every woman wants to sleep with them? Or the reverse. So why should men and women be separated? Why shouldnt they shower together? Why shouldnt they sleep in close quarters with one another? Why shouldnt they change in front of one another? best post of the thread. I as a straight man would not want to get naked infront of a gay man for the same reason a woman would not want to get naked in front of me. I would seperate the gay person(s) in the same way a man and woman are seperated in certain regards. Its not about one being better then the other in anyway. DADT should have been left as is. Thats why I would say I support DADT. You cant associate this with civil rights movement or white soldiers not wanting to serve with black soldiers. Being gay is something that is not obvious at all times. best post of the thread. I as a straight man would not want to get naked infront of a gay man for the same reason a woman would not want to get naked in front of me. I would seperate the gay person(s) in the same way a man and woman are seperated in certain regards. Its not about one being better then the other in anyway. DADT should have been left as is. Are you so conceited that you think every gay man would want you? Everytime someone mentions being near a gay person, you respond with this statement. WE GET IT! Some people are narrowminded and would answer yes. BUT, thats not the point. It isnt about thinking that every gay man would want me. Its not about thinking every woman would want me. Its about the possibility of a sexual attraction and/or inappropriate comments. Lets face it.....people confined in tight quarters, getting to know one another on an intimiate basis....adrenaline running.....these things can all feed an attraction. I have a very good friend who is gay, and he very much likes going to the gym locker room. he may not want to screw everyone in there, but he quite often enjoys the view. If I were in the women's showers, I wouldn't necessarily want to sleep with them all, but I would certainly be looking at most likely all of them. I have no problem with gays serving in the military, and I am glad they are able to openly now. But it IS complicated. Excellent point. I'm glad someone could articulate a little better than I could. If I went into a women's locker room, regardless of their looks.....I'd be looking at boobies. I am really happy that this is finally gone. I'm coming up on my 4 year anniversary in the Army and have known numerous homosexual soldiers who are outstanding examples of professionalism and courage that are doing great things all around the world. I have seen several people pretend the be gay though in order to get discharged under DADT. In fact, of the 5 people I have seen discharged under DADT, only 1 was actually gay. As for the whole shower issue, about 2/3 of military showers I have used have dividers so if you want to keep yourself "covered" and unseen you can do so. Infact, one of the barracks I lived in had a private bathroom for every two room with 2 shower stalls with actual shower curtains shared by 4 people. One of the soldiers in our adjourning room actually was gay, but it was never an issue. As a Non-Commissioned Officer all I care about when it comes to my soldiers is the flag on their shoulder. I could care less who they go to home to at night, which person they pray to, etc. as long as it isn't illegal and doesn't interfere with the mission. I have seen countless straight soldiers impede unit moral and readiness because of their lazy, incompetent, whoreish wives. I have seen straight female soldiers become a barracks doorknob and either create drama, get pregnant, or spread STDs which is far more damaging to a unit. Nice to get some insight from an actual soldier who can set the record straight. And thank you for protecting our country. I dont think this thread is really full of people who are discounting gays or trying to argue that they wouldnt make a fine soldier based on being gay. I think its more of a question of whether or not DADT is a good policy. Knowing that showers have some more privacy definitely helps support the repeal. However, do men and women share showers or are they separate? If they are separate, dont you think it would be fair request to not shower, even with some privacy, with a gay person? |
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Post by Thick Justice on Dec 21, 2010 0:18:20 GMT -5
As far as I am concerned I find it perfectly fine too be gay and in the army. As long as they understand going in if they admit it they may get in fights. I think it should be made doubley sure that no fights break out. Not so much worrying gays will attack or rape people more so that straight jerks don't attack gays or purpousely put them in danger.
Honestly these days there are a lot of adults who don't like gays. I think the gays will be no problem too straight people as long as they same as straight people are checked for sanity issues. Now I am positive there is gonna be more straight then gays even after this. Simply because right now it seems gays are the minority. There needs to be more effort put into sanity checks and predjadice checks.
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35F20
Main Eventer
Theirs was not to reason why....
Joined on: May 8, 2002 22:12:35 GMT -5
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Post by 35F20 on Dec 21, 2010 0:31:27 GMT -5
In garrison there are separate facilities and in the field there are either separate facilities or different scheduled use times for the same showers depending on gender, for example 0600-0700 for males followed by 0700-0800 for females.
Yes, I'm sure some people will feel uncomfortable and awkward. Unfortunately, from a logistics standpoint, having separate gay and straight showers would further add to the headache of sanitation in the field. Two years ago we were out for an exercise and had our shower facilities working only every 3rd day or so for a few hours. it was a nightmare ensuring that all 700 soldiers were able to shower, much less accommodating for separate gender shower times.
When I lived in the dorms my freshman year of college there were numerous gay students on my floor that shared the same bathroom and shower with me. There was no separate facility for them. some people had an issue with it at first, but they got over it eventually or managed to work around it.
As a leader I hold my Soldiers to a high standard of professionalism. If there was a gay soldier that was staring at guys in the shower I would treat it exactly the same as if it was a male soldier harassing a female soldier. The bottom line is that if a Soldier abides by the Army Values in whatever they do, then there will be no issues. Hell, I think that there could eventually be co-ed shower facilities if people could learn conduct themselves as mature individuals.
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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on Dec 21, 2010 15:55:55 GMT -5
In garrison there are separate facilities and in the field there are either separate facilities or different scheduled use times for the same showers depending on gender, for example 0600-0700 for males followed by 0700-0800 for females. Yes, I'm sure some people will feel uncomfortable and awkward. Unfortunately, from a logistics standpoint, having separate gay and straight showers would further add to the headache of sanitation in the field. Two years ago we were out for an exercise and had our shower facilities working only every 3rd day or so for a few hours. it was a nightmare ensuring that all 700 soldiers were able to shower, much less accommodating for separate gender shower times. When I lived in the dorms my freshman year of college there were numerous gay students on my floor that shared the same bathroom and shower with me. There was no separate facility for them. some people had an issue with it at first, but they got over it eventually or managed to work around it. As a leader I hold my Soldiers to a high standard of professionalism. If there was a gay soldier that was staring at guys in the shower I would treat it exactly the same as if it was a male soldier harassing a female soldier. The bottom line is that if a Soldier abides by the Army Values in whatever they do, then there will be no issues. Hell, I think that there could eventually be co-ed shower facilities if people could learn conduct themselves as mature individuals. I completely understand there being trouble with logistics depending on the situation. So I most certainly do not propose a separate showering facility. But thats why I am thinking DADT is a GOOD policy. As far as the values the US Army has and enforcing them.....isnt that a hard thing to do, especially if DADT is repealed. An openly gay soldier could be doing nothing, but minding his own business and b/c a narrowminded straight soldier is uncomfortable, he begins to make up stories that the gay soldier is staring at his junk in the shower. And then several of his fellow narrow minded friends say the same thing. Now trouble has occurred for someone who has done nothing and for what reason? So he could be loud and proud of being gay. I'm proud of my wrestling figure collection. I most certainly do not goto a bar and announce that in front of everyone, friends or acquaintances. Thats something I only share with someone I either think is a fellow collector or wrestling fan, etc. Its not because I am ashamed, its simply b/c not everyone is as open minded and its easier to avoid the issue. And DADT does just that. |
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Post by Kliquid on Dec 21, 2010 16:01:13 GMT -5
You don't need to build a new bathroom to create separate showering areas...
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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on Dec 21, 2010 16:31:54 GMT -5
You don't need to build a new bathroom to create separate showering areas... No, but you have to create a new schedule. |
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Post by Kliquid on Dec 21, 2010 16:42:14 GMT -5
You don't need to build a new bathroom to create separate showering areas... No, but you have to create a new schedule. Not really. It's not difficult to create dividers. I can't imagine it costing more than a few hundred, maybe a couple thousand dollars per base. |
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Post by King Shocker the Monumentous on Dec 21, 2010 23:18:06 GMT -5
Next logical step: All-gay army.
I'd vote for it.
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KRAYZIE BONE
Main Eventer
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Post by KRAYZIE BONE on Dec 22, 2010 14:05:21 GMT -5
best post of the thread. I as a straight man would not want to get naked infront of a gay man for the same reason a woman would not want to get naked in front of me. I would seperate the gay person(s) in the same way a man and woman are seperated in certain regards. Its not about one being better then the other in anyway. DADT should have been left as is. Are you so conceited that you think every gay man would want you? im not conceited, youre simply oblivious to the obvious. |
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Post by slappy on Dec 22, 2010 14:08:29 GMT -5
Are you so conceited that you think every gay man would want you? im not conceited, youre simply oblivious to the obvious. The obvious is "Who gives a  ?" You are there to do a job, to protect the country and defeat the enemy. You think gay people see it any differently? You think they are there just so they can take a look at someone else's junk? They can't see that back home, they want to travel across the world so they can sneak peaks at someone? No, they are there to do what is asked of them. |
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Post by Kliquid on Dec 22, 2010 16:03:03 GMT -5
You are there to do a job, to protect the country and defeat the enemy. You think gay people see it any differently? You think they are there just so they can take a look at someone else's junk? They can't see that back home, they want to travel across the world so they can sneak peaks at someone? No, they are there to do what is asked of them. Slappy, guys don't care how inappropriate the timing is. We're always thinking about sex. Come on now. |
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Post by slappy on Dec 22, 2010 16:06:08 GMT -5
You are there to do a job, to protect the country and defeat the enemy. You think gay people see it any differently? You think they are there just so they can take a look at someone else's junk? They can't see that back home, they want to travel across the world so they can sneak peaks at someone? No, they are there to do what is asked of them. Slappy, guys don't care how inappropriate the timing is. We're always thinking about sex. Come on now. Difference between it happening and intentionally doing it. He's making it seem that gays join the military just so they look at the same sex naked in the showers. |
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Post by Kliquid on Dec 22, 2010 16:13:31 GMT -5
I'm not sure that it particularly matters WHY it would happen, only that it WOULD happen.
But like I said, this would be solved very simply by shower separators.
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Post by slappy on Dec 22, 2010 16:47:49 GMT -5
We are probably the only country to freak out about the showers.
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Post by Kliquid on Dec 22, 2010 16:59:29 GMT -5
We are probably the only country to freak out about the showers. If I was a woman, I wouldn't be comfortable with creepy dudes staring at me while I'm naked. Likewise, being a straight man, I don't want gay guys (or straight guys who have wandering eyes) staring at me, either. I don't really think this is much of a sacrifice to make everyone comfortable. |
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