|
Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Nov 4, 2012 12:33:12 GMT -5
Rule one of this thread: If your reply isn't at least two paragraphs, don't bother as I want real answers, not bias or simple opinions.
I'm sitting here looking through my DVD Collection observing John Cena's evolution(or arguably lack there of) over his decade in WWE. I don't own any DVDs where he is the primary subject, but since I own a WrestleMania or PPV from 2005 onward, I happen to own John Cena matches.
Moving on, I've observed John's entire career & have heard the split opinions since he first pranced around on my Television with the WWE Championship. I've seen matches where he looked greener than his debut match with Angle in 02, but the match I was watching was from 2007, & I've seen him take inarguably respectable amounts of punishment & hold his own with Hall of Famers. Which leads me to my question & the topic of this thread:
Is John Cena's wrestling ability as atrocious as most Internet fans believe?
Before you answer, I(& every other idiot who knows wrestling history) AM WELL AWARE that he is no Shawn Michaels, or Bret Hart, or Undertaker, or Ric Flair etc. However he does have the ability to wrestle 30 minute matches(A respectable talent in modern day WWE), take legitimately dangerous bumps, & possesses the strength & will required to be an adequate "stooge" if you will for in-ring maestros such as Triple H, Randy Orton, HBK, Edge & so on.
I want to finally end this topic as I'm sick of hearing about it. So remember I am the unbiased moderator who only respects Cena for his company loyalty & willingness to put over other people. The standard responsibility of any Main-Eventer.
My only arguable bias is that I wish all men given Main Event positions were true blue thespians who cared about wrestling as a top priority. Not money or fame outside of it.
So post your essays, paragraphs & assessments of one of Wrestling's most controversial figures, but make them good or I'm removing them.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: Sept 28, 2024 17:15:33 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2012 12:38:18 GMT -5
Cena really isn't as bad as people make him out to be. Because he is the face of WWE at the moment and has been for the last several years, he's almost a symbol of everything that people hate about the company. Which results in a lot of fans projecting their hatred on him.
As far as his wrestling ability goes, he isn't bad. He isn't great, either. Hogan wasn't great but he managed to have some of the best matches of all time with the likes of The Warrior, Randy Savage and The Rock. Cena has the ability to pull off great matches, but his opponent has to be good.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: Sept 28, 2024 17:15:33 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2012 12:57:55 GMT -5
I'm not giving my stance on the subject because of your needless arrogance and rudeness in regards to this topic.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: Sept 28, 2024 17:15:33 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2012 12:58:45 GMT -5
You're going to remove my post? fffwhat? Who are you exacty? Funny thing is, I was going to contribute and all until I saw that last sentence. Are you ing kidding me?
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: Sept 28, 2024 17:15:33 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2012 13:03:37 GMT -5
You're going to remove my post? fffwhat? Who are you exacty? Funny thing is, I was going to contribute and all until I saw that last sentence. Are you ing kidding me? He isn't going to read our posts anyway as they are NOT at least two paragraphs long.
|
|
|
Post by Markw on Nov 4, 2012 13:10:14 GMT -5
Cena gets a lot of unfair criticism, he also gets a lot of fair criticism. On the one hand he's been a part of some great matches against the likes of Punk, Michaels (Raw) and others. But clearly he's not up there with the greats. He's more than capable of having main event worthy matches and is a talented worker, but there are a number of better workers who get fewer chances than him.
That said I think a lot of the abuse he gets stems not from his in ring ability which is more than acceptable, but from the fact that he has become so stale (and indeed had become so long before I stopped watching), which is down to a mixture of things and isn't something that can be instantly fixed, for instance by turning him heel, suggesting that would solve the problem on its own is just silly. I've found him dull for some time but that's not his fault, it's the fault of the creative team who are unwilling to take a risk because what he's doing at the moment appeals to kids which means they sell merchandise and make enough money to justify it. Yes the criticism about his in ring ability is unfair, but not all of the critisism is unjustified, although it maybe shouldn't be aimed at him. I'm not an expert, I've not watched regularly for four years, but that's my take on the situation.
|
|
Infinite
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 27, 2009 13:49:36 GMT -5
Posts: 2,608
|
Post by Infinite on Nov 4, 2012 13:11:10 GMT -5
Nah, he isn't too bad in the ring. He's shown that he can go in quite a few matches. Granted, they've been against the likes of Triple H, Edge, Shawn Michaels etc. but he's still earned people's respect because of this. I think the reason people knock him is because he's been on top constantly for 7 years, and in the process has gone over a lot of IWC favourites.
Oh crap, that wasn't two paragraphs.
|
|
|
Post by y2yay on Nov 4, 2012 13:14:06 GMT -5
Here's a couple of paragraphs for ya:
You're "definitive" thread on whether John Cena can wrestle or not has been done a million times before and will be done a million times after. Nothing anyone says in this thread will end this topic forever. As for you being "the moderator" and "removing people's posts"....don't make me laugh. Who are you again? How exactly are you going to remove my posts? Here's a tip - don't act all high and mighty when you're trying to generate a discussion.
As for Cena, the IWC's opinion on him varies anyway. I'm pretty sure everyone respects him, but everything else about him is divided. You're never going to get to the bottom of it. My take on Cena is that he can more than hold his own in the ring and he's improved year on year since his debut. He's had a lot of great matches over the years, and I don't think he's been "carried" in any of them. I will say that I think how over he is improves his match quality by giving it excitement and a big fight feel. If he had the overness of say, Michael McGillicutty, most of those classic matches would be easily forgotten.
|
|
|
Post by el torro on Nov 4, 2012 13:36:20 GMT -5
lol, you can't remove posts. Durrrr.
|
|
|
Post by Johnny Wrestling on Nov 4, 2012 13:57:53 GMT -5
It's simple. Like Anvil Fan said, he represents what many of us hate about wrestling now. I hate the fact that every wrestler that seems to get a push, is NEVER able to go over Cena TOTALLY cleanly. Orton couldn't, Punk couldn't, Del Rio couldn't. You name it, he wasn't able to, except for Batista a long time ago. And obviously not everyone has to go over Cena, but looking back, he's been defeated by I think not more than 5 people TOTALLY cleanly, and I totally hate that.
About his ability, he's definitely not as bad, but he's certainly not that good. I think what makes us get pissed off more is the fact that we already know the outcome (and that's coming from someone that hates when people say WWE is predictable) of almost every Cena match/feud.
A character CHANGE, not necessarily turn, would definitely do wonders for him. I was getting behind him again at this years Royal Rumble up until after Extreme Rules, when he just went back to the same Cena we've seen since 2005.
|
|
|
Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Nov 4, 2012 14:38:20 GMT -5
lol, you can't remove posts. Durrrr. Yeah, I forgot about that & accept that sounds stupid on my part. I just want rational observations. I said two paragraph just trying to keep pointless posts from being made.
|
|
|
Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Nov 4, 2012 14:40:10 GMT -5
Cena really isn't as bad as people make him out to be. Because he is the face of WWE at the moment and has been for the last several years, he's almost a symbol of everything that people hate about the company. Which results in a lot of fans projecting their hatred on him. As far as his wrestling ability goes, he isn't bad. He isn't great, either. Hogan wasn't great but he managed to have some of the best matches of all time with the likes of The Warrior, Randy Savage and The Rock. Cena has the ability to pull off great matches, but his opponent has to be good. Thank you. That was the kind of assessment I was looking for. Sensible, unbiased & in depth. I agree with you.
|
|
|
Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Nov 4, 2012 14:43:14 GMT -5
I'm not giving my stance on the subject because of your needless arrogance and rudeness in regards to this topic. How am I arrogant? I only prefaced it as to avoid the same pointless arguments this topic brings. I've or listened to them all. If it's been argued about in wrestling, I know about it & I'm sick of hearing the senseless ones. Also it's been ages since I posted a thread & forgot the thread creator can't delete other user's remarks. My bad.
|
|
|
Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Nov 4, 2012 14:45:16 GMT -5
You're going to remove my post? fffwhat? Who are you exacty? Funny thing is, I was going to contribute and all until I saw that last sentence. Are you ing kidding me? You mean when I said he's controversial? Well he is. Who else brings out more vehemence & contempt among the IWC, smarks & die hard fans in the modern era? I didn't mean controversial as in edgy or offensive.
|
|
|
Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Nov 4, 2012 14:47:39 GMT -5
Nah, he isn't too bad in the ring. He's shown that he can go in quite a few matches. Granted, they've been against the likes of Triple H, Edge, Shawn Michaels etc. but he's still earned people's respect because of this. I think the reason people knock him is because he's been on top constantly for 7 years, and in the process has gone over a lot of IWC favourites. Oh crap, that wasn't two paragraphs. But it was informative & enforces my "passionate journeyman(stooge)" theory so I don't care that it's only as long as it is.
|
|
|
Post by charabro on Nov 4, 2012 14:49:33 GMT -5
Cena cant wraslle hurrr duurrrr
|
|
|
Post by paperbackhero on Nov 4, 2012 14:59:25 GMT -5
Do you mean 'pro wrestling' ability or amateur wrestling ability?
I dont know about his amateur ability...and I dont know why it would matter, but hes a good pro wrestler. His style isnt 'technical' if thats what you mean...but one doesnt need to be technical to have great matches. One also doesnt need to have amateur skills to be a good technical wrestler, like Shawn Michaels or Bret Hart. Neither of those guys have amateur credentials, but are masters at technical pro wrestling...like a hybrid of amateur and a work. Al Snow, Malenko, Lance Storm are good examples of technical guys, great pro wrestlers, but didnt draw a dime with it. Nast Boys ate legit amateur guys, trained in one of po wrestlings most respected facilities under Verne Gagne, and they didnt use any of it in the ring as pros.
Do you want to know how many 'moves' he knows? Believe me, most guys, know ALL the moves...its just they dont use them...the biggest draws in history did the same thing in basically every match.
I dont know how you want us to rate him in a worked sport? He knows how to wrestle, and is successful....its just a matter of taste...Do you like him, or not? That will be argued, not debated, around here forever.
|
|
|
Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Nov 4, 2012 15:00:31 GMT -5
Here's a couple of paragraphs for ya: You're "definitive" thread on whether John Cena can wrestle or not has been done a million times before and will be done a million times after. Nothing anyone says in this thread will end this topic forever. As for you being "the moderator" and "removing people's posts"....don't make me laugh. Who are you again? How exactly are you going to remove my posts? Here's a tip - don't act all high and mighty when you're trying to generate a discussion. As for Cena, the IWC's opinion on him varies anyway. I'm pretty sure everyone respects him, but everything else about him is divided. You're never going to get to the bottom of it. My take on Cena is that he can more than hold his own in the ring and he's improved year on year since his debut. He's had a lot of great matches over the years, and I don't think he's been "carried" in any of them. I will say that I think how over he is improves his match quality by giving it excitement and a big fight feel. If he had the overness of say, Michael McGillicutty, most of those classic matches would be easily forgotten. Fair enough, I deserved the criticism, but am I the only one that wishes discussions produced answers anymore? No it will not end the arguments, but if enough educated people come to a logical conclusion, then I can stop speculating the truth & just know it. I agree with & am compelled your opinion on him for the record, except your belief on coming to a conclusion. Only if you learn of every possible perspective & aspect to a given subject where there is no scientific way to find an answer, can you find said answer. You are clearly a knowledgeable spectator who presents a logical perspective. I need yours along with all the other logical observations to know the truth as to no longer speculate on the subject. I never meant to be "high & mighty". I just have to deal with idiots bombarding me stupid statements about wrestling on a daily occurrence & I just can't take it.
|
|
|
Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Nov 4, 2012 15:04:29 GMT -5
It's simple. Like Anvil Fan said, he represents what many of us hate about wrestling now. I hate the fact that every wrestler that seems to get a push, is NEVER able to go over Cena TOTALLY cleanly. Orton couldn't, Punk couldn't, Del Rio couldn't. You name it, he wasn't able to, except for Batista a long time ago. And obviously not everyone has to go over Cena, but looking back, he's been defeated by I think not more than 5 people TOTALLY cleanly, and I totally hate that. About his ability, he's definitely not as bad, but he's certainly not that good. I think what makes us get pissed off more is the fact that we already know the outcome (and that's coming from someone that hates when people say WWE is predictable) of almost every Cena match/feud. A character CHANGE, not necessarily turn, would definitely do wonders for him. I was getting behind him again at this years Royal Rumble up until after Extreme Rules, when he just went back to the same Cena we've seen since 2005. This is the sort of clarity I was looking for & I agree with you. It also coincides with my frustration with McMahon's inability to book all the main eventers on an even level with one of them being pushed ridiculously harder than the rest of the roster.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: Sept 28, 2024 17:15:34 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2012 15:13:45 GMT -5
Yeah choose wisley on how you treat members here, or youll become another triplehfan or codyrhodesdiva
|
|