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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Nov 4, 2012 15:31:36 GMT -5
Do you mean 'pro wrestling' ability or amateur wrestling ability? I dont know about his amateur ability...and I dont know why it would matter, but hes a good pro wrestler. His style isnt 'technical' if thats what you mean...but one doesnt need to be technical to have great matches. One also doesnt need to have amateur skills to be a good technical wrestler, like Shawn Michaels or Bret Hart. Neither of those guys have amateur credentials, but are masters at technical pro wrestling...like a hybrid of amateur and a work. Al Snow, Malenko, Lance Storm are good examples of technical guys, great pro wrestlers, but didnt draw a dime with it. Nast Boys are legit amateur guys, trained in one of po wrestlings most respected facilities under Verne Gagne, and they didn't use any of it in the ring as pros. I dont know how you want us to rate him in a worked sport? He knows how to wrestle, and is successful....its just a matter of taste...Do you like him, or not? That will be argued, not debated, around here forever. I mean the ability to perform a match & tell stories with his body inside a wrestling ring. Also I don't care who argues about it. If the educated wrestling community comes to the most logical conclusion, then it is the "truth" I'm looking for. Yes judging wrestlers is much like judging painters or other artists, but there are still particular qualities all great paintings possess & all great painters are capable of creating in their work. Which are the qualities I am curious about just how much of that ability does John Cena really possess. Shawn was a free style wrestler in high-school & Bret grew up in the biggest wrestling family his country's ever seen. Bad examples. Nasty Boys & Mankind: Great Examples. No one quotes Tootz Mondt more that I do so I'm more aware of your point than I could ever convey.
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OYDK?
Main Eventer
Joined on: May 22, 2011 13:55:27 GMT -5
Posts: 2,676
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Post by OYDK? on Nov 4, 2012 15:32:28 GMT -5
Why are you trying so hard to sound intelligent?
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Post by paperbackhero on Nov 4, 2012 15:41:52 GMT -5
Do you mean 'pro wrestling' ability or amateur wrestling ability? I dont know about his amateur ability...and I dont know why it would matter, but hes a good pro wrestler. His style isnt 'technical' if thats what you mean...but one doesnt need to be technical to have great matches. One also doesnt need to have amateur skills to be a good technical wrestler, like Shawn Michaels or Bret Hart. Neither of those guys have amateur credentials, but are masters at technical pro wrestling...like a hybrid of amateur and a work. Al Snow, Malenko, Lance Storm are good examples of technical guys, great pro wrestlers, but didnt draw a dime with it. Nast Boys are legit amateur guys, trained in one of po wrestlings most respected facilities under Verne Gagne, and they didn't use any of it in the ring as pros. I dont know how you want us to rate him in a worked sport? He knows how to wrestle, and is successful....its just a matter of taste...Do you like him, or not? That will be argued, not debated, around here forever. I mean the ability to perform a match & tell stories with his body inside a wrestling ring. Also I don't care who argues about it. If the educated wrestling community comes to the most logical conclusion, then it is the "truth" I'm looking for. Yes judging wrestlers is much like judging painters or other artists, but there are still particular qualities all great paintings possess & all great painters are capable of creating in their work. Which are the qualities I am curious about just how much of that ability does John Cena really possess. Shawn was a free style wrestler in high-school & Bret grew up in the biggest wrestling family his country's ever seen. Bad examples. Nasty Boys & Mankind: Great Examples. No one quotes Tootz Mondt more that I do so I'm more aware of your point than I could ever convey. If its the ability to perform matches and tell stories, then every wrestler who has laced up boots can do it. Its just if one thinks it is good is where the answer lies...hence one persons opinion. John Cena tells stories and performs. Therefore he has wrestling ability, logic dictates. There is no "truth" you speak of.
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Post by Todd Pettengill on Nov 4, 2012 15:52:22 GMT -5
Do you mean 'pro wrestling' ability or amateur wrestling ability? I dont know about his amateur ability...and I dont know why it would matter, but hes a good pro wrestler. His style isnt 'technical' if thats what you mean...but one doesnt need to be technical to have great matches. One also doesnt need to have amateur skills to be a good technical wrestler, like Shawn Michaels or Bret Hart. Neither of those guys have amateur credentials, but are masters at technical pro wrestling...like a hybrid of amateur and a work. Al Snow, Malenko, Lance Storm are good examples of technical guys, great pro wrestlers, but didnt draw a dime with it. Nast Boys are legit amateur guys, trained in one of po wrestlings most respected facilities under Verne Gagne, and they didn't use any of it in the ring as pros. I dont know how you want us to rate him in a worked sport? He knows how to wrestle, and is successful....its just a matter of taste...Do you like him, or not? That will be argued, not debated, around here forever. I mean the ability to perform a match & tell stories with his body inside a wrestling ring. Also I don't care who argues about it. If the educated wrestling community comes to the most logical conclusion, then it is the "truth" I'm looking for. Yes judging wrestlers is much like judging painters or other artists, but there are still particular qualities all great paintings possess & all great painters are capable of creating in their work. Which are the qualities I am curious about just how much of that ability does John Cena really possess. Shawn was a free style wrestler in high-school & Bret grew up in the biggest wrestling family his country's ever seen. Bad examples. Nasty Boys & Mankind: Great Examples. No one quotes Tootz Mondt more that I do so I'm more aware of your point than I could ever convey. I'm not saying you're wrong but when did Shawn wrestle in school Wildman? Also to the guy who said Bret has no amateur credentials.....Bret was indeed a standout amateur wrestler when he was younger.
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Nov 4, 2012 15:55:17 GMT -5
Why are you trying so hard to sound intelligent? Because we all wear sunglasses & try to fake it.... Shut up & help me come to a conclusion!
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Nov 4, 2012 16:00:04 GMT -5
I mean the ability to perform a match & tell stories with his body inside a wrestling ring. Also I don't care who argues about it. If the educated wrestling community comes to the most logical conclusion, then it is the "truth" I'm looking for. Yes judging wrestlers is much like judging painters or other artists, but there are still particular qualities all great paintings possess & all great painters are capable of creating in their work. Which are the qualities I am curious about just how much of that ability does John Cena really possess. Shawn was a free style wrestler in high-school & Bret grew up in the biggest wrestling family his country's ever seen. Bad examples. Nasty Boys & Mankind: Great Examples. No one quotes Tootz Mondt more that I do so I'm more aware of your point than I could ever convey. If its the ability to perform matches and tell stories, then every wrestler who has laced up boots can do it. Its just if one thinks it is good is where the answer lies...hence one persons opinion. John Cena tells stories and performs. Therefore he has wrestling ability, logic dictates. There is no "truth" you speak of. You are exactly right up to your last sentence. His abilities tell stories at the level in which he is presented. As a main Eventer at the master level is what concerns me then.
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Post by Edge618 on Nov 4, 2012 16:00:05 GMT -5
Cena has the ability, but doesn't know how to use it. Look at all his "best" matches. They are all with guys who brought out the best in him. HBK, Angle, Punk, Jericho. He did his part in all those matches. But he can't do that with any guy. He can go in the ring, but not with anyone . Cena doesn't bring out the best in anyone, where as true talented wrestlers will bring out the best in anyone they face.
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Deleted
Joined on: Sept 28, 2024 17:14:28 GMT -5
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2012 16:01:34 GMT -5
I still want to see the damn Cena/Tensai feud we were promised.
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Nov 4, 2012 16:03:45 GMT -5
I mean the ability to perform a match & tell stories with his body inside a wrestling ring. Also I don't care who argues about it. If the educated wrestling community comes to the most logical conclusion, then it is the "truth" I'm looking for. Yes judging wrestlers is much like judging painters or other artists, but there are still particular qualities all great paintings possess & all great painters are capable of creating in their work. Which are the qualities I am curious about just how much of that ability does John Cena really possess. Shawn was a free style wrestler in high-school & Bret grew up in the biggest wrestling family his country's ever seen. Bad examples. Nasty Boys & Mankind: Great Examples. No one quotes Tootz Mondt more that I do so I'm more aware of your point than I could ever convey. I'm not saying you're wrong but when did Shawn wrestle in school Wildman? Also to the guy who said Bret has no amateur credentials.....Bret was indeed a standout amateur wrestler when he was younger. Okay... For the last time, I'm not a Wildman. There is an apostrophe & a big, fat "S" on the end of it. It's like the phrase "Thinking Man's Wrestler." Possessive Tense. I could have swim seeing a photograph of him in a singlet as a teenager in his high school's gymnasium. I COULD BE WRONG.
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Post by Todd Pettengill on Nov 4, 2012 16:06:09 GMT -5
I'm not saying you're wrong but when did Shawn wrestle in school Wildman? Also to the guy who said Bret has no amateur credentials.....Bret was indeed a standout amateur wrestler when he was younger. Okay... For the last time, I'm not a Wildman. There is an apostrophe & a big, fat "S" on the end of it. It's like the phrase "Thinking Man's Wrestler." Possessive Tense. I could have swim seeing a photograph of him in a singlet as a teenager in his high school's gymnasium. I COULD BE WRONG. I don't know your name so what am I supposed to call you? Be serious please.
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Nov 4, 2012 16:08:38 GMT -5
Cena has the ability, but doesn't know how to use it. Look at all his "best" matches. They are all with guys who brought out the best in him. HBK, Angle, Punk, Jericho. He did his part in all those matches. But he can't do that with any guy. He can go in the ring, but not with anyone . Cena doesn't bring out the best in anyone, where as true talented wrestlers will bring out the best in anyone they face. He does propose a compelling challenge. A promoter can determine the talent of their wrestlers depending on how they perform & if they can bring a good match out of dealing with him. Thank you for your contributions.
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Nov 4, 2012 16:11:12 GMT -5
Okay... For the last time, I'm not a Wildman. There is an apostrophe & a big, fat "S" on the end of it. It's like the phrase "Thinking Man's Wrestler." Possessive Tense. I could have swim seeing a photograph of him in a singlet as a teenager in his high school's gymnasium. I COULD BE WRONG. I don't know your name so what am I supposed to call you? Be serious please. I've been completely serious the entire time, you're just the umpteenth person to call me that when it's not my name. I put my real name in my signature.
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Post by paperbackhero on Nov 4, 2012 16:18:20 GMT -5
I mean the ability to perform a match & tell stories with his body inside a wrestling ring. Also I don't care who argues about it. If the educated wrestling community comes to the most logical conclusion, then it is the "truth" I'm looking for. Yes judging wrestlers is much like judging painters or other artists, but there are still particular qualities all great paintings possess & all great painters are capable of creating in their work. Which are the qualities I am curious about just how much of that ability does John Cena really possess. Shawn was a free style wrestler in high-school & Bret grew up in the biggest wrestling family his country's ever seen. Bad examples. Nasty Boys & Mankind: Great Examples. No one quotes Tootz Mondt more that I do so I'm more aware of your point than I could ever convey. I'm not saying you're wrong but when did Shawn wrestle in school Wildman? Also to the guy who said Bret has no amateur credentials.....Bret was indeed a standout amateur wrestler when he was younger. Bret was a standout amateur wrestler...but he did one year/semester at Mount Royal. Its a junior college here in Canada, that didnt do any inter collegate wrestling at the time. High school, and in his basement, he was awesome.
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Post by y2yay on Nov 4, 2012 16:28:29 GMT -5
I still want to see the damn Cena/Tensai feud we were promised. We were never promised that. And thank god for that.
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Post by wwextreme25 on Nov 4, 2012 16:37:40 GMT -5
He's a good wrestler and has pulled off some great matches against many superstars. Somtimes he lacks a little ability but i havnt seem him botch majorly in quite a while so...
but istill like him and think he's a decent guy. I respect him aswelll
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Post by robinsonben36 on Nov 4, 2012 18:17:40 GMT -5
Talented entertainer who doesn't know how to bump or execute many moves properly.
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Post by Joe/Smurf on Nov 4, 2012 18:34:23 GMT -5
I know I'm supposed to give you two paragraphs, but my opinion on Cena is pretty much that he is a very capable wrestler, but his value truly stems from his skills as an entertainer. To me, being able to tell a good story in the ring, regardless of pure "wrestling" ability, is including in being an entertainer. And no one can say Cena doesn't often tell a good story in his matches.
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Nov 4, 2012 19:24:34 GMT -5
Talented entertainer who doesn't know how to bump or execute many moves properly. THIS is what has baffled me about him for YEARS. He's been around the best wrestlers alive & had the most powerful corporate machine behind him & yet he still struggles to broaden his in-ring style.
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Nov 4, 2012 19:38:30 GMT -5
I know I'm supposed to give you two paragraphs, but my opinion on Cena is pretty much that he is a very capable wrestler, but his value truly stems from his skills as an entertainer. To me, being able to tell a good story in the ring, regardless of pure "wrestling" ability, is including in being an entertainer. And no one can say Cena doesn't often tell a good story in his matches. It's nice to know there actually are other people who understands that. I'm not saying he's a master story teller persay, but he is a damn good one. Which seems to be something that is overlooked. Granted they tend to have him tell the same babyface stories, but he has proven himself of his position as a main Eventer.
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Post by paperbackhero on Nov 4, 2012 19:39:56 GMT -5
Talented entertainer who doesn't know how to bump or execute many moves properly. THIS is what has baffled me about him for YEARS. He's been around the best wrestlers alive & had the most powerful corporate machine behind him & yet he still struggles to broaden his in-ring style. Oh....i get it now. All you wanted was for you to say your opinion on Cena...and have others validate it. If he is on top, making money and in the main event.....why would he bother learning another type of arm bar? Just like ALL the greats.....do what you do best...and add a new move in every year or so. Why mess with a good thing? Oh, by the way, your pretentious line about Tootz Mondt shows you are a tool. Here's a quote for ya "as soon as you think you know it all....you know nothing."
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