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Post by Lord Ragnarok on Sept 7, 2013 20:40:21 GMT -5
Not prevent, sorry, but it does reduce the risk same as vaccines. Vaccines don't prevent getting sick either.I'm just curious, what exactly was the point of this thread? lol that isn't true in the slightest and the point of this thread was to ask whether we're in favour of forced vaccinations or not. you said you're not, because of some bogus reason. and now here we are. What's your problem man? Why do you have to be an ass about it? And yes it is very much true that vaccines are no guarantee that you won't still get sick. That is a fact. And if you think that infringing on peoples personal freedoms is a bogus reason then that's pretty ed up. And if you continue to be an ass instead of trying to be civilized I'm not going to bother responding to any more of your posts.
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Post by Lord Ragnarok on Sept 7, 2013 20:41:55 GMT -5
Whatever. What I want to know is what was the purpose of making this thread? And I'd like to know if you think it's ok for the government to prevent people from doing things. I asked the question first. Answer mine, then I'll answer yours.
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Post by slappy on Sept 7, 2013 20:44:11 GMT -5
And I'd like to know if you think it's ok for the government to prevent people from doing things. I asked the question first. Answer mine, then I'll answer yours. But I didn't start the thread so I can't answer the question.
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Post by ztj_wwf on Sept 7, 2013 20:46:30 GMT -5
It's a basic load of bull...The end doesn't justify the means. So your selfish ass needs are more important than many others combined? I don't think so, pal. Individual rights trump "the greater good of society".
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Y2J13
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Post by Y2J13 on Sept 7, 2013 20:46:48 GMT -5
lol that isn't true in the slightest and the point of this thread was to ask whether we're in favour of forced vaccinations or not. you said you're not, because of some bogus reason. and now here we are. What's your problem man? Why do you have to be an ass about it? And yes it is very much true that vaccines are no guarantee that you won't still get sick. That is a fact. And if you think that infringing on peoples personal freedoms is a bogus reason then that's pretty ed up. And if you continue to be an ass instead of trying to be civilized I'm not going to bother responding to any more of your posts. lol where was I an ass there? I just told you what you said wasn't true, which it isn't. I didn't say that vaccines are a guarantee you won't catch the disease you are being vaccinated against, but they do have an effectiveness of about 99%. You said it has the same effectiveness as eating fruit and veg does at preventing diseases, which is 100% false. Eating healthily reduces the risk of diseases like cancer (only certain types though), but is still not as effective as a vaccine. If someone eats fruit and vegetables to try and prevent cervical cancer, and another person gets a cervical cancer vaccine, who has the higher risk of getting cervical cancer? The "healthy" person by far. It's not even close. And yes, it is a bogus reason when it doesn't even make any sense. If you don't get a vaccination and contract a disease, then die of that disease are you still going to be all "Haha, I didn't get the vaccine! I'm dying now, but I still have my freedom"? I doubt it.
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Post by ¡Twist Of Lime Green Jello! on Sept 7, 2013 20:48:50 GMT -5
I love how protecting someone from sickness and disease is considered infringing on their freedom...
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Sept 7, 2013 20:48:51 GMT -5
Eating fruits/vegetables - does not reduce the risk of getting something like chicken pox, measles, mumps, polio, etc.... Vaccinations - reduce the risk of getting said diseases to virtually nil. Whatever. What I want to know is what was the purpose of making this thread? To see how people reconcile libertarian philosophy with public health.
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That 80s Guy
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Post by That 80s Guy on Sept 7, 2013 20:49:57 GMT -5
-- Maybe, but 1) I rather NOT inject elements that can mess with my already funked-up system, and 2) it's the principle of the matter. Nobody should be forced into getting a flu shot, as it's always been optional (and I haven't had a flu shot since 2009 and been fine since). I'd rather get sick naturally, than intake something man-made that could get me sick. Guess I'm crazy like that. Don't you think the doctors know best? I doubt they would inject you with something if it had a high risk of making you sick. And they aren't forcing you to get a flu shot. They're giving you the option of having a flu shot and being put on the transplant list, or not. -- I just about spit out my drink from laughter... If you seriously believe they want to cure you, so you're ill-free, you have a lot to learn about this world and what money does to an industry (particularly the medical field). And I do consider my circumstance to be forceful - not in the physically forceful sense where they're hold a gun to my head anything. But forceful in the fact that I'm deprived of the option of refusing a flu vaccination, in order to get a transplant. It's ridiculous. It shouldn't matter how healthy I am or how sick I am, come time for transplant surgery - I'm either going to live through it, pass away on the table, or return to dialysis because my body rejects the new kidney - the worry of the flu is the least of my issues at this point.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Sept 7, 2013 20:51:21 GMT -5
So your selfish ass needs are more important than many others combined? I don't think so, pal. Individual rights trump "the greater good of society". So, let's say you have ebola. It's highly contagious. Does the government have the right to quarantine you against your will? What if your neighbor has ebola. You're okay with your neighbor running around infecting you and pretty much guaranteeing you are going to die.
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Y2J13
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Post by Y2J13 on Sept 7, 2013 20:51:23 GMT -5
So your selfish ass needs are more important than many others combined? I don't think so, pal. Individual rights trump "the greater good of society". But one individual's rights might go against another person's. Why is your right to not have a vaccination if you don't want, more important than my right to live and be safe?
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Post by slappy on Sept 7, 2013 20:51:46 GMT -5
From libertarian Walter Block.
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Post by ztj_wwf on Sept 7, 2013 20:52:03 GMT -5
I love how protecting someone from sickness and disease is considered infringing on their freedom... Why don't we just have the government tell everyone what they can eat and drink too? Surely that will also protect people from sickness and disease.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Sept 7, 2013 20:53:06 GMT -5
Don't you think the doctors know best? I doubt they would inject you with something if it had a high risk of making you sick. And they aren't forcing you to get a flu shot. They're giving you the option of having a flu shot and being put on the transplant list, or not. -- I just about spit out my drink from laughter... If you seriously believe they want to cure you, so you're ill-free, you have a lot to learn about this world and what money does to an industry (particularly the medical field). And I do consider my circumstance to be forceful - not in the physically forceful sense where they're hold a gun to my head anything. But forceful in the fact that I'm deprived of the option of refusing a flu vaccination, in order to get a transplant. It's ridiculous. It shouldn't matter how healthy I am or how sick I am, come time for transplant surgery - I'm either going to live through it, pass away on the table, or return to dialysis because my body rejects the new kidney - the worry of the flu is the least of my issues at this point. I have to agree with you on this one. It's a BS reason to ask you to get a pretty BS vaccine. Still, it's a BS vaccine that's not going to kill you (hopefully) and the benefits of taking it (getting a new kidney) far outweigh the risks.
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Y2J13
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Joined on: Jul 3, 2013 17:02:19 GMT -5
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Post by Y2J13 on Sept 7, 2013 20:53:56 GMT -5
Don't you think the doctors know best? I doubt they would inject you with something if it had a high risk of making you sick. And they aren't forcing you to get a flu shot. They're giving you the option of having a flu shot and being put on the transplant list, or not. -- I just about spit out my drink from laughter... If you seriously believe they want to cure you, so you're ill-free, you have a lot to learn about this world and what money does to an industry (particularly the medical field). And I do consider my circumstance to be forceful - not in the physically forceful sense where they're hold a gun to my head anything. But forceful in the fact that I'm deprived of the option of refusing a flu vaccination, in order to get a transplant. It's ridiculous. It shouldn't matter how healthy I am or how sick I am, come time for transplant surgery - I'm either going to live through it, pass away on the table, or return to dialysis because my body rejects the new kidney - the worry of the flu is the least of my issues at this point. There must be a logical reason you need the flu shot first. If you don't get the flu shot, but do get the new kidney, but then contract flu which damages said kidney, was it really worth it?
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Y2J13
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Post by Y2J13 on Sept 7, 2013 20:56:24 GMT -5
I love how protecting someone from sickness and disease is considered infringing on their freedom... Why don't we just have the government tell everyone what they can eat and drink too? Surely that will also protect people from sickness and disease. The clear difference is that not getting an innoculation for a deadly disease can directly affect other people. If you want to be an overweight alcoholic, that's your business.
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Post by Spear Guy on Sept 7, 2013 20:56:29 GMT -5
Don't you think the doctors know best? I doubt they would inject you with something if it had a high risk of making you sick. And they aren't forcing you to get a flu shot. They're giving you the option of having a flu shot and being put on the transplant list, or not. -- I just about spit out my drink from laughter... If you seriously believe they want to cure you, so you're ill-free, you have a lot to learn about this world and what money does to an industry (particularly the medical field). And I do consider my circumstance to be forceful - not in the physically forceful sense where they're hold a gun to my head anything. But forceful in the fact that I'm deprived of the option of refusing a flu vaccination, in order to get a transplant. It's ridiculous. It shouldn't matter how healthy I am or how sick I am, come time for transplant surgery - I'm either going to live through it, pass away on the table, or return to dialysis because my body rejects the new kidney - the worry of the flu is the least of my issues at this point. I almost spit out the Ginger candy I was eating. You think doctors know best? They make MONEY from SHOTS. They pump shots out and will give you a flu shot anytime they can so they can make MONEY. Doctors push meds and pills so they make more MONEY. You got another thing coming if you think doctors know best, bucko. RAGNAROK or NAC, if you need any back up in this thread... I'm here.
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Post by Lord Ragnarok on Sept 7, 2013 20:56:51 GMT -5
I love how protecting someone from sickness and disease is considered infringing on their freedom... -_- There's no guarantee that vaccines prevent sickness and disease. It just reduces the risk, but so does eating proper fruits and vegetables. I think I'll stick with the natural way.
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Post by Spear Guy on Sept 7, 2013 20:57:53 GMT -5
-- I just about spit out my drink from laughter... If you seriously believe they want to cure you, so you're ill-free, you have a lot to learn about this world and what money does to an industry (particularly the medical field). And I do consider my circumstance to be forceful - not in the physically forceful sense where they're hold a gun to my head anything. But forceful in the fact that I'm deprived of the option of refusing a flu vaccination, in order to get a transplant. It's ridiculous. It shouldn't matter how healthy I am or how sick I am, come time for transplant surgery - I'm either going to live through it, pass away on the table, or return to dialysis because my body rejects the new kidney - the worry of the flu is the least of my issues at this point. There must be a logical reason you need the flu shot first. If you don't get the flu shot, but do get the new kidney, but then contract flu which damages said kidney, was it really worth it? They is absolutely no reason for a flu shot.... NONE. Its to make MONEY.
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Post by Lord Ragnarok on Sept 7, 2013 20:58:59 GMT -5
-- I just about spit out my drink from laughter... If you seriously believe they want to cure you, so you're ill-free, you have a lot to learn about this world and what money does to an industry (particularly the medical field). And I do consider my circumstance to be forceful - not in the physically forceful sense where they're hold a gun to my head anything. But forceful in the fact that I'm deprived of the option of refusing a flu vaccination, in order to get a transplant. It's ridiculous. It shouldn't matter how healthy I am or how sick I am, come time for transplant surgery - I'm either going to live through it, pass away on the table, or return to dialysis because my body rejects the new kidney - the worry of the flu is the least of my issues at this point. I almost spit out the Ginger candy I was eating. You think doctors know best? They make MONEY from SHOTS. They pump shots out and will give you a flu shot anytime they can so they can make MONEY. Doctors push meds and pills so they make more MONEY. You got another thing coming if you think doctors know best, bucko. RAGNAROK or NAC, if you need any back up in this thread... I'm here. That's it right there. Doctors are about as trustworthy as lawyers.
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That 80s Guy
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Joined on: Nov 6, 2010 14:29:43 GMT -5
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Post by That 80s Guy on Sept 7, 2013 21:00:24 GMT -5
-- I just about spit out my drink from laughter... If you seriously believe they want to cure you, so you're ill-free, you have a lot to learn about this world and what money does to an industry (particularly the medical field). And I do consider my circumstance to be forceful - not in the physically forceful sense where they're hold a gun to my head anything. But forceful in the fact that I'm deprived of the option of refusing a flu vaccination, in order to get a transplant. It's ridiculous. It shouldn't matter how healthy I am or how sick I am, come time for transplant surgery - I'm either going to live through it, pass away on the table, or return to dialysis because my body rejects the new kidney - the worry of the flu is the least of my issues at this point. There must be a logical reason you need the flu shot first. If you don't get the flu shot, but do get the new kidney, but then contract flu which damages said kidney, was it really worth it? -- Again, it falls into what I said in my original post... if I get sick naturally, I'm ok with that, because it's natural. I don't want to get sick, and that's one of the main reasons why I've always REFUSED flu shots.
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