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Post by ztj_wwf on Sept 7, 2013 21:00:25 GMT -5
Individual rights trump "the greater good of society". But one individual's rights might go against another person's. Why is your right to not have a vaccination if you don't want, more important than my right to live and be safe? If I were to infect you with the disease that I didn't get vaccinated for, I should rightly be punished, but otherwise what I decide to do with my own body is my business. By the greater good logic, we should just kill off everyone with AIDS so that it can't be passed on. That may benefit a majority if it could be done, but most would agree that it would be morally incorrect.
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Y2J13
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Post by Y2J13 on Sept 7, 2013 21:00:37 GMT -5
I love how protecting someone from sickness and disease is considered infringing on their freedom... -_- There's no guarantee that vaccines prevent sickness and disease. It just reduces the risk, but so does eating proper fruits and vegetables. I think I'll stick with the natural way. Except the risk of getting a disease after having the vaccine for it is almost 0% while you still stand a fair chance of getting a disease even if you eat fruits and vegetables.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Sept 7, 2013 21:00:59 GMT -5
I love how protecting someone from sickness and disease is considered infringing on their freedom... -_- There's no guarantee that vaccines prevent sickness and disease. It just reduces the risk, but so does eating proper fruits and vegetables. I think I'll stick with the natural way. Vaccines PREVENT diseases. They don't reduce risk. They PREVENT disease. If a vaccine works the way it's designed to it confers immunity upon the one vaccinated. You can inject yourself with measles and you won't get it. You can chug it, you can rub your face with chicken pox. you're not going to get a disease if you've been vaccinated and the vaccine is working. That is how the science of vaccination works.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Sept 7, 2013 21:01:46 GMT -5
There must be a logical reason you need the flu shot first. If you don't get the flu shot, but do get the new kidney, but then contract flu which damages said kidney, was it really worth it? They is absolutely no reason for a flu shot.... NONE. Its to make MONEY. In some cases it confers immunity to that year's version of the flu. I can see the applications for some people namely the elderly and the very young.
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Post by slappy on Sept 7, 2013 21:01:49 GMT -5
Lord Ragnarok Since you got an answer to your question, I'd like an answer to mine.
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Y2J13
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Post by Y2J13 on Sept 7, 2013 21:03:29 GMT -5
But one individual's rights might go against another person's. Why is your right to not have a vaccination if you don't want, more important than my right to live and be safe? If I were to infect you with the disease that I didn't get vaccinated for, I should rightly be punished, but otherwise what I decide to do with my own body is my business. By the greater good logic, we should just kill off everyone with AIDS so that it can't be passed on. That may benefit a majority if it could be done, but most would agree that it would be morally incorrect. AIDS isn't as easily caught as something like small pox or measles. You'd have to swap blood or have sex to contract AIDS from someone.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Sept 7, 2013 21:03:34 GMT -5
But one individual's rights might go against another person's. Why is your right to not have a vaccination if you don't want, more important than my right to live and be safe? If I were to infect you with the disease that I didn't get vaccinated for, I should rightly be punished, but otherwise what I decide to do with my own body is my business. By the greater good logic, we should just kill off everyone with AIDS so that it can't be passed on. That may benefit a majority if it could be done, but most would agree that it would be morally incorrect. Punishing you is nice and all, but I'm dead. It's not much of a comfort to me. Also, my neighbor is now dead. And the guy you work with is dead. And the guy who sat next to you on the bus is dead. We're all dead. But you're going to jail because you didn't get a simple shot that would've prevented all of this so it's ok.
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Post by slappy on Sept 7, 2013 21:03:43 GMT -5
But one individual's rights might go against another person's. Why is your right to not have a vaccination if you don't want, more important than my right to live and be safe? If I were to infect you with the disease that I didn't get vaccinated for, I should rightly be punished, but otherwise what I decide to do with my own body is my business. By the greater good logic, we should just kill off everyone with AIDS so that it can't be passed on. That may benefit a majority if it could be done, but most would agree that it would be morally incorrect. But people with AIDS, who don't tell their partner they have it and spread it, are charged with crimes. So either they shouldn't be or those parents who don't vaccinate their kids and they die should face charges.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Sept 7, 2013 21:04:09 GMT -5
If I were to infect you with the disease that I didn't get vaccinated for, I should rightly be punished, but otherwise what I decide to do with my own body is my business. By the greater good logic, we should just kill off everyone with AIDS so that it can't be passed on. That may benefit a majority if it could be done, but most would agree that it would be morally incorrect. AIDS isn't as easily caught as something like small pox or measles. You'd have to swap blood or have unprotected sex to contract AIDS from someone. Fixed it for you.
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Y2J13
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Post by Y2J13 on Sept 7, 2013 21:04:20 GMT -5
I'm from the UK, so I'm covered by the NHS. Maybe that is affecting my "everything a doctor does is a scam" mentality?
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Post by Spear Guy on Sept 7, 2013 21:04:41 GMT -5
-_- There's no guarantee that vaccines prevent sickness and disease. It just reduces the risk, but so does eating proper fruits and vegetables. I think I'll stick with the natural way. Vaccines PREVENT diseases. They don't reduce risk. They PREVENT disease. If a vaccine works the way it's designed to it confers immunity upon the one vaccinated. You can inject yourself with measles and you won't get it. You can chug it, you can rub your face with chicken pox. you're not going to get a disease if you've been vaccinated and the vaccine is working. That is how the science of vaccination works. The gripe I have about vaccines are the ingredients... Why would I wanna inject myself with mercury and formaldehyde If you can do it naturally... I'll do it naturally.
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Post by ztj_wwf on Sept 7, 2013 21:06:33 GMT -5
If I were to infect you with the disease that I didn't get vaccinated for, I should rightly be punished, but otherwise what I decide to do with my own body is my business. By the greater good logic, we should just kill off everyone with AIDS so that it can't be passed on. That may benefit a majority if it could be done, but most would agree that it would be morally incorrect. Punishing you is nice and all, but I'm dead. It's not much of a comfort to me. Also, my neighbor is now dead. And the guy you work with is dead. And the guy who sat next to you on the bus is dead. We're all dead. But you're going to jail because you didn't get a simple shot that would've prevented all of this so it's ok. That's a tad dramatic don't you think?
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Post by Spear Guy on Sept 7, 2013 21:07:15 GMT -5
Even though I don't agree with half of you... I feel happy that WF can have a half orderly and smart discussion...
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Post by Lord Ragnarok on Sept 7, 2013 21:08:24 GMT -5
Vaccines are a shot in the dark, maybe it will work, maybe it won't. Fruits and vegetables do the same thing with much healthier benefits.
I wouldn't take Carlos Danger very seriously. Again, he called me close minded because I don't believe in a book about talking snakes and all that other bullsh*t.
Slappy's in the same boat. He thinks the same book which condones rape, homophobia, murder, infanticide and the slaughter of innocent women and children is a great source of moral values.
They both act like these intelligent know-it-alls when really they're just pretentious windbags.
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Y2J13
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Post by Y2J13 on Sept 7, 2013 21:08:57 GMT -5
Vaccines PREVENT diseases. They don't reduce risk. They PREVENT disease. If a vaccine works the way it's designed to it confers immunity upon the one vaccinated. You can inject yourself with measles and you won't get it. You can chug it, you can rub your face with chicken pox. you're not going to get a disease if you've been vaccinated and the vaccine is working. That is how the science of vaccination works. The gripe I have about vaccines are the ingredients... Why would I wanna inject myself with mercury and formaldehyde If you can do it naturally... I'll do it naturally. On paper you wouldn't want faeces transplanted into your body either, that doesn't mean it can't help you: www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15113440
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Post by slappy on Sept 7, 2013 21:09:22 GMT -5
Vaccines PREVENT diseases. They don't reduce risk. They PREVENT disease. If a vaccine works the way it's designed to it confers immunity upon the one vaccinated. You can inject yourself with measles and you won't get it. You can chug it, you can rub your face with chicken pox. you're not going to get a disease if you've been vaccinated and the vaccine is working. That is how the science of vaccination works. The gripe I have about vaccines are the ingredients... Why would I wanna inject myself with mercury and formaldehyde If you can do it naturally... I'll do it naturally. Then don't eat fish if you want to stay away from mercury. Not all flu shots contain mercury. If mercury is used it is only used as somewhat of a sterilization of the needle. Formaldehyde is used to kill viruses or inactivate toxins during the manufacturing process and is an inactive ingredient which means it won't harm you. Both of those come straight from the CDC.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Sept 7, 2013 21:10:26 GMT -5
Vaccines PREVENT diseases. They don't reduce risk. They PREVENT disease. If a vaccine works the way it's designed to it confers immunity upon the one vaccinated. You can inject yourself with measles and you won't get it. You can chug it, you can rub your face with chicken pox. you're not going to get a disease if you've been vaccinated and the vaccine is working. That is how the science of vaccination works. The gripe I have about vaccines are the ingredients... Why would I wanna inject myself with mercury and formaldehyde If you can do it naturally... I'll do it naturally. The mercury in vaccines is ethyl mercury which is non-toxic and easily filtered by the body, not elemental mercury which is highly toxic. Formaldehyde is used in vaccines to render them non-toxic but still immunogenic. Side question. How is something like mercury not "natural"?
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Post by slappy on Sept 7, 2013 21:10:37 GMT -5
Vaccines are a shot in the dark, maybe it will work, maybe it won't. Fruits and vegetables do the same thing with much healthier benefits. I wouldn't take Carlos Danger very seriously. Again, he called me close minded because I don't believe in a book about talking snakes and all that other bullsh*t. Slappy's in the same boat. He thinks the same book which condones rape, homophobia, murder, infanticide and the slaughter of innocent women and children is a great source of moral values. They both act like these intelligent know-it-alls when really they're just pretentious windbags. So people shouldn't be allowed to practice their religion no matter what beliefs it has? Wouldn't that go against their freedom?
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Y2J13
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Post by Y2J13 on Sept 7, 2013 21:10:40 GMT -5
Vaccines are a shot in the dark, maybe it will work, maybe it won't. Fruits and vegetables do the same thing with much healthier benefits. I wouldn't take Carlos Danger very seriously. Again, he called me close minded because I don't believe in a book about talking snakes and all that other bullsh*t. Slappy's in the same boat. He thinks the same book which condones rape, homophobia, murder, infanticide and the slaughter of innocent women and children is a great source of moral values. They both act like these intelligent know-it-alls when really they're just pretentious windbags. No it won't. That's completely false.
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Post by ztj_wwf on Sept 7, 2013 21:10:52 GMT -5
Vaccines are a shot in the dark, maybe it will work, maybe it won't. Fruits and vegetables do the same thing with much healthier benefits. I wouldn't take Carlos Danger very seriously. Again, he called me close minded because I don't believe in a book about talking snakes and all that other bullsh*t. Slappy's in the same boat. He thinks the same book which condones rape, homophobia, murder, infanticide and the slaughter of innocent women and children is a great source of moral values. They both act like these intelligent know-it-alls when really they're just pretentious windbags. This is not even about vaccines actually working or not...It's about whether or not people should have the right not to be forced to be vaccinated. And now you're bringing people's personal religious beliefs into it? What does that have to do with anything? Very innapropriate.
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