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Post by RybackV1 on Nov 26, 2013 22:55:02 GMT -5
I think religion causes more problems and fights than a lot of things. And I think it should be outlawed as a whole in these countries who don't know how to practice it correctly and go around killing people. Some countries take religion way too far and if there is a god., they do things that would make him sick, while thinking they are praising his name. It's all backwards. And it's all ed. So then it's the people who are a problem not the religion. Suppose your right. People are getting so bad. I cannot believe how Rude some people are to me while I'm cashiering. Common courtesy is dead. Especaiy in a country where the majority of people living here don't even know the nations morals/values/belief system/customs. It's all a bunch of cluster ed people together. And no one likes each other.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Nov 26, 2013 23:06:16 GMT -5
Well, if people are the problem, banning religion really fixes nothing at all. We should talk about banning people. That I would be behind 110%.
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Deleted
Joined on: Sept 29, 2024 0:31:00 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2013 23:27:17 GMT -5
It's a nice surprise that this thread has been so civilized, I'm proud of my WF brothern. Now if we can only someday be so civil that conversations like this wouldn't be needed, not just on WF but the world itself, we'd be pretty rad.
I know atheists that are good people and Christians that are good people and a Muslim that's a great person, and I also know atheists that are bungholes and Christians that are bungholes, but I'm not going to judge people and their entire belief system off the bad apples associated with it. I think if we can all do that, be tolerant of other's beliefs like we expect people to be tolerant of ours, and realize that neither side is perfect and that dick measuring contests between the two will get us nowhere, the world would be a pretty gnarly place.
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Post by Adam on Nov 27, 2013 7:49:27 GMT -5
Ah, these threads are my favorite. I personally cannot figure out the original poster (and I'm an atheist), where do you draw the line with "keeping things to ourselves"? How long have we been told to "have our beliefs and just shut up about it"? Now you seem to want to apply the same thing those who are religious? Personally, I'm not going to shut up either as long as religion continues the damage that it does. However banning it all together is not the solution, especially when you're targeting a specific religion in this particular topic. I'm personally of the belief that none of the good things people do require a religion. On the subject of God on the money and in the pledge, while it's obviously not a huge issue, it is unconstitutional. Plain and simple. That's all I've got for now
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Post by Lord Ragnarok on Nov 27, 2013 11:22:42 GMT -5
Ummm... So I guess you haven't heard of all the beheading that Muslims do all the time? It may not happen here but it does happen. Don't say that no one does it because that's a straight out lie. And you should know better than to accuse me of singling out one religion. Yes, I have read the Bible and I'm well aware of it's ridiculous rules or whatever which is one of the main reasons why I'm so against it. And aiming to kill those that do not wish to convert is much broader than killing witches. Nothing good comes from religion. NOTHING. That statement alone just speaks volumes of ignorance. Seriously, volumes of ignorance. I could list off a whole slew of examples of the good that comes from religion though I suspect it wouldn't change your mind at all. Heck, just look at people like Gandhi and Mother Theresa and the things they did that were motivated by religion. We could go a lot farther back than that, but we really don't have to. The things done by them aren't ground breaking or new, nor are they things done in the past that don't happen any more. Did you know that religious people give more per capita than the non-religious do? If you factor out the obvious (giving to churches and other religious organizations) religious people STILL give more per capita than the non-religious even to non-religious institutions (humane societies, zoos, non-religious homeless shelters, food banks, etc.....). But no good comes from religion. When Katrina hit, you know what groups were the first ones there offering aid? I'll give you a hint, it wasn't FEMA and the feds. It was local churches and charities in the area showing up with food, bottled water, temporary shelters, etc.... FEMA has since left New Orleans, but those same churches and charities are STILL there. Why? Because there's still a need and their religion teaches them that he who would be greatest in the Kingdom must first be a servant. Just look at the typhoon in the Philippines. Who was the first one's there? Various religious and religious based charities and you can bet money they will be there long after foreign aid is gone. And all of this says nothing about the billions of people who's lives have been changed by their faith. We all know people who've had their life turned completely around by their faith. Nothing good comes from religion? Seriously? That's one of the most ignorant statements I've ever seen. Gandhi was a racist and Mother Teresa doubted her own faith.Studies have actually shown that Atheists are more charitable than Christians.And Christians are so loving and charitable right? Well did you hear the one about the pastor that dressed up as a homeless person and was completely shunned by the unaware members of his new church?What about charities like the Salvation Army? They're great right? Except that the Salvation Army discriminates against homosexuality. Chick Fil A is a charitable religious company too, right? Well guess what? They discriminate against homosexuals as well. Then there's the Boy Scouts of America. They do good deeds and donate to charities except they too discriminate against homosexuals and Atheists. These aren't the only ones, most of these "charitable" Christians are hypocrites, they can donate all they want but discriminating others pretty much undoes what little good they do. I can't thank you enough for posting this one because it pretty much proves that the only reason religious people "do good" is because they expect some kind of reward when they die. They're not doing it out of the kindness of their hearts. At least the Atheists that do donate, do it because they want to, not because they expect some kind of reward. I stand firmly beside my statement that religion does more harm then good. I think religion causes more problems and fights than a lot of things. And I think it should be outlawed as a whole in these countries who don't know how to practice it correctly and go around killing people. Some countries take religion way too far and if there is a god., they do things that would make him sick, while thinking they are praising his name. It's all backwards. And it's all ed. So then it's the people who are a problem not the religion. Have you ever read the Bible or the Quran? These are the source materials and basis for both religions. The ones that don't follow it to a T are the cherry pickers that only acknowledge whatever little good there is and completely ignores the bad stuff. And the people that are doing harm are doing it in the name of religion. So no, it's not just the people that are the problem it is also religion. Ah, these threads are my favorite. I personally cannot figure out the original poster (and I'm an atheist), where do you draw the line with "keeping things to ourselves"? How long have we been told to "have our beliefs and just shut up about it"? Now you seem to want to apply the same thing those who are religious? Personally, I'm not going to shut up either as long as religion continues the damage that it does. However banning it all together is not the solution, especially when you're targeting a specific religion in this particular topic. I'm personally of the belief that none of the good things people do require a religion. On the subject of God on the money and in the pledge, while it's obviously not a huge issue, it is unconstitutional. Plain and simple. That's all I've got for now I realized that I was going a bit too far and that I would be satisfied as long as they keep it out of schools and government. And I'm not singling out one religion in my other posts I criticize Christianity just as much. However, Islam is a much more violent and ruthless religion where it's followers are commanded to kill those that do not accept it. I find that to be quite terrifying.
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Post by Tim of thee on Nov 27, 2013 14:26:06 GMT -5
I ask again since it wasn't answered.
Do you personally know any Christians, Catholics, Muslims? Do you fear them?
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Post by Punk on Nov 27, 2013 14:29:11 GMT -5
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Post by Lord Ragnarok on Nov 27, 2013 16:30:54 GMT -5
I ask again since it wasn't answered. Do you personally know any Christians, Catholics, Muslims? Do you fear them? I don't know any Muslims but I do know a lot of Christians and Catholics that are very discriminatory. No.
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Post by Tim of thee on Nov 27, 2013 16:57:50 GMT -5
I ask again since it wasn't answered. Do you personally know any Christians, Catholics, Muslims? Do you fear them? I don't know any Muslims but I do know a lot of Christians and Catholics that are very discriminatory. No. And you're not being discriminatory with your belief that all people of faith are stupid selfish murderous fools? Do you have friends who are religious? If so, what is that like for you're relationships with them? If not, why not? Why is thier religion a barrier for those potential relationships? I am extremely interested to hear your response to those questions.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Nov 27, 2013 17:30:50 GMT -5
That statement alone just speaks volumes of ignorance. Seriously, volumes of ignorance. I could list off a whole slew of examples of the good that comes from religion though I suspect it wouldn't change your mind at all. Heck, just look at people like Gandhi and Mother Theresa and the things they did that were motivated by religion. We could go a lot farther back than that, but we really don't have to. The things done by them aren't ground breaking or new, nor are they things done in the past that don't happen any more. Did you know that religious people give more per capita than the non-religious do? If you factor out the obvious (giving to churches and other religious organizations) religious people STILL give more per capita than the non-religious even to non-religious institutions (humane societies, zoos, non-religious homeless shelters, food banks, etc.....). But no good comes from religion. When Katrina hit, you know what groups were the first ones there offering aid? I'll give you a hint, it wasn't FEMA and the feds. It was local churches and charities in the area showing up with food, bottled water, temporary shelters, etc.... FEMA has since left New Orleans, but those same churches and charities are STILL there. Why? Because there's still a need and their religion teaches them that he who would be greatest in the Kingdom must first be a servant. Just look at the typhoon in the Philippines. Who was the first one's there? Various religious and religious based charities and you can bet money they will be there long after foreign aid is gone. And all of this says nothing about the billions of people who's lives have been changed by their faith. We all know people who've had their life turned completely around by their faith. Nothing good comes from religion? Seriously? That's one of the most ignorant statements I've ever seen. Gandhi was a racist and Mother Teresa doubted her own faith.The sheer level of your ignorance on this is mind blowing. I would swear you are being purposely ignorant. Were Mother Theresa and Gandhi motivated by their faith? Yes or no. Did good come out of what they did? Yes or no. The statement I made was that both of them were motivated by their faith and that good came out of their motivations. Both of those statements are 100% true. I never claimed either of them were perfect. Why? Because they were human. You look at any human you'll find flaws. This study is on people's motivations of which I said absolutely nothing. But way to build a straw man. The fact is that religious people give far more per capita, than non-religious. philanthropy.com/article/Religious-Americans-Give-More/143273/www.barna.org/barna-update/article/12-faithspirituality/102-atheists-and-agnostics-take-aim-at-christians#.UpZrnuJEOIg - "Even when church-based giving is subtracted from the equation, active-faith adults donated twice as many dollars last year as did atheists and agnostics. In fact, while just 7% of active-faith adults failed to contribute any personal funds in 2006, that compares with 22% among the no-faith adults." www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/20/study-less-religious-stat_n_1810425.html - "States with the least religious residents are also the stingiest about giving money to charity" I'm sorry, but those are the facts. The more religious you are, the more you give. Plain and simple. You're aware that this is an urban legend right? Seriously, did you even bother to vet this story, or did you just assume that it was true because it backed up your worldview? Are we mindlessly accepting something as fact because we want it to be true? Isn't that what you accuse religious people of doing? The sad thing is that believing this particular story isn't a matter of faith. No Jeremiah Steepek has ever been located and the picture of him circulating on the 'net is of a homeless guy in England so this particular story is completely bogus. www.snopes.com/glurge/homelesspastor.aspwww.hoax-slayer.com/pastor-jeremiah-steepek-story.shtmlwww.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/26/pastor-jeremiah-steepek-hoax-homeless-fake_n_3654742.htmlNot sure what your point is. You point to extremist and claim they represent everyone? Let's not forget the fact that everyone discriminates against someone. No one is exempt from that. Does the motivation matter? Seriously, think about that for a second. Let's say you are drowning. A lifeguard jumps in and pulls you out because that's his job and that's what he is paid to do. Does the fact that he's only doing it because he's getting paid for it make you wish you had drowned? Does a motivation really matter here? The religious are out serving. The non-religious are sitting at home doing nothing. There are any number of secular charities, but they are supported, for the most part, by the religious. That is a fact. Your previous statement was "Nothing good comes from religion. NOTHING." So we're now amending our statement? You do realize that no one follows the Bible or the Quran to a T except for the extremist factions in both religions. Once again you point to the extremist minority and claim they represent the entire faith. I'll just toss this out there for free. You seem like a very angry and bitter person. I don't know if that's really you or not, but that's how you come across. Speaking as an early 30s guy who spent a good portion of his 20s as an angry and bitter person, it's not worth it. You should make an effort to find something to bring you some peace in your life. Obviously religion won't work for you so I won't insult you by suggesting it, but I'm sure there's something out there that can give you peace and I'd encourage you to find it. Being angry and bitter is hard to walk away from and let go of, but it's so worth it.
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Post by Lord Ragnarok on Nov 27, 2013 18:04:00 GMT -5
I made a misstatement. Let me rephrase myself, I firmly stand by my belief that religion does nothing for humanity. Anyway, I don't understand you. You are such a stickler for evidence, yet you put your faith in something that has zero evidence to back it up. I don't understand it. There is absolutely zero evidence that god exists, that anything in the Bible actually happened, and even the existence of Jesus. And I agree, it's the extremists that follow the Bible and Quran to the T. But what about the non-extremists that still promote the Bible and Quran. Are they promoting edited versions. No. They're all the same. The non-extremists are the ones that cherry pick the good stuff and ignore the bad. Both the Bible and Quran clearly state that they must be followed to a T, so the ones that don't, what's up with them? Are they not going to go to heaven because they don't follow every single ridiculous commandment? There maybe less extremists now, but they were more numerous in the past. Since religion was first conceived countless lives were needlessly lost and wasted. Extremists get their ways straight from the source material, so basically if it wasn't for religion we wouldn't have extremists at all. And the Middle East would not be so ed either.
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Post by Lord Ragnarok on Nov 27, 2013 18:07:18 GMT -5
I don't know any Muslims but I do know a lot of Christians and Catholics that are very discriminatory. No. And you're not being discriminatory with your belief that all people of faith are stupid selfish murderous fools? Do you have friends who are religious? If so, what is that like for you're relationships with them? If not, why not? Why is thier religion a barrier for those potential relationships? I am extremely interested to hear your response to those questions. I don't have any religious friends because all the ones I've come across are either douchebags, extremely hypocritical, whackjobs or all of the above. Plus I don't want to associate myself with grown adults that believe in talking snakes, burning bushes, cockatrices, resurrections and other mythological fairy tale nonsense. I only associate with rational and logical people that follow science in place of an invisible sky daddy.
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Post by Tim of thee on Nov 27, 2013 18:40:26 GMT -5
And you're not being discriminatory with your belief that all people of faith are stupid selfish murderous fools? Do you have friends who are religious? If so, what is that like for you're relationships with them? If not, why not? Why is thier religion a barrier for those potential relationships? I am extremely interested to hear your response to those questions. I don't have any religious friends because all the ones I've come across are either douchebags, extremely hypocritical, whackjobs or all of the above. Plus I don't want to associate myself with grown adults that believe in talking snakes, burning bushes, cockatrices, resurrections and other mythological fairy tale nonsense. I only associate with rational and logical people that follow science in place of an invisible sky daddy. With all your cliches aside... you and I couldn't be friends then? If I could read, in context, what you're trying to say, there wouldn't be a chance for that happening? Let's say we were in line at a grocery store (assume we just met for the first time) and I lean back and said something like "man can't wait for the 4 day weekend" to break the ice. Then we continued chatting, making small talk about how nice the weather had been, etc.. Then you asked me what I was doing for Thanksgiving and I said something like "I'm volunteering at my wife's church. We are feeding the homeless," would you write me off right then and there?
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Nov 27, 2013 19:40:24 GMT -5
And you're not being discriminatory with your belief that all people of faith are stupid selfish murderous fools? Do you have friends who are religious? If so, what is that like for you're relationships with them? If not, why not? Why is thier religion a barrier for those potential relationships? I am extremely interested to hear your response to those questions. I don't have any religious friends because all the ones I've come across are either douchebags, extremely hypocritical, whackjobs or all of the above. Plus I don't want to associate myself with grown adults that believe in talking snakes, burning bushes, cockatrices, resurrections and other mythological fairy tale nonsense. I only associate with rational and logical people that follow science in place of an invisible sky daddy. Wow. When I read this I found myself pitying you. It's sad. I have friends who are Christians. I have friends who are Muslims. I have friends who are Jews. I have friends who are non-religious. We get along fine, we can talk about our religions and what we believe without being mocked and criticized and, I feel, it makes me a better person to be surrounded by a wide variety of people. I think it would be tragic if the only people around me were also Christians and we all believed the exact same thing. I feel sorry for you. Not gonna lie. You're missing out on some great friendships by isolating yourself this way.
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Fleet Foxes
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jul 9, 2012 10:27:47 GMT -5
Posts: 1,117
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Post by Fleet Foxes on Nov 27, 2013 19:50:21 GMT -5
And you're not being discriminatory with your belief that all people of faith are stupid selfish murderous fools? Do you have friends who are religious? If so, what is that like for you're relationships with them? If not, why not? Why is thier religion a barrier for those potential relationships? I am extremely interested to hear your response to those questions. I don't have any religious friends because all the ones I've come across are either douchebags, extremely hypocritical, whackjobs or all of the above. Plus I don't want to associate myself with grown adults that believe in talking snakes, burning bushes, cockatrices, resurrections and other mythological fairy tale nonsense. I only associate with rational and logical people that follow science in place of an invisible sky daddy. I thought you said the religious people are the ones who were discriminatory.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Nov 27, 2013 19:55:50 GMT -5
I made a misstatement. Let me rephrase myself, I firmly stand by my belief that religion does nothing for humanity. Anyway, I don't understand you. You are such a stickler for evidence, yet you put your faith in something that has zero evidence to back it up. I don't understand it. There is absolutely zero evidence that god exists, that anything in the Bible actually happened, and even the existence of Jesus. And I agree, it's the extremists that follow the Bible and Quran to the T. But what about the non-extremists that still promote the Bible and Quran. Are they promoting edited versions. No. They're all the same. The non-extremists are the ones that cherry pick the good stuff and ignore the bad. Both the Bible and Quran clearly state that they must be followed to a T, so the ones that don't, what's up with them? Are they not going to go to heaven because they don't follow every single ridiculous commandment? There maybe less extremists now, but they were more numerous in the past. Since religion was first conceived countless lives were needlessly lost and wasted. Extremists get their ways straight from the source material, so basically if it wasn't for religion we wouldn't have extremists at all. And the Middle East would not be so ed either. You hit the nail on the head right there. Finally there is something we can agree on 100%. My faith is just that, it's faith. I have never claimed that there is imperical evidence to prove God exists or that my religion is true. If that were the case, this discusscion would be silly. We might as well be discussing whether Newton's Second Law is real. It'd be a dumb discussion. Why do I believe? I believe because I find my faith to be a comfort to me. There have been times in my life when I hit rock bottom (been there more once) and when I was, I've cried out in the night and found a God who heard me and answered my cries. This is why I believe in God. I've had a personal experience with him. I can't prove it. I can't define it. I can't measure it, but that experience is still real to me. The idea that if we didn't have religion, no one would hold any extreme views is beyond laughable. There are so many whackjob extremist out there that have nothing at all to do with religion.
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Post by ~ Cymru ~ on Nov 27, 2013 19:58:26 GMT -5
In a way I agree, in another I dont. A group of muslims in london are trying to turn part of the city into one of there Shira Zones (sorry for spelling) which outlaws drinking smoking etc. My problem is that their own country has those places, go home. and if these rules are so good, then why aren't they working over in their own home. It seems to be a lot of Islamic comunity are fascist in their way of thinking their religion and ways are better and anyone who doesnt agree isn't worthy.
I could see why Angola would just want to ban that outright.
but not all of the islamic comunity is like that, AND eventhough religon is bollocks people still have the right to believe in what ever nonsene they like
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Post by Darkhawk on Nov 27, 2013 20:14:13 GMT -5
WHY ARE YOU GUYS STILL TALKING ABOUT THIS? Jeez talk about nonsense.
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Post by Tim of thee on Dec 1, 2013 21:49:15 GMT -5
I'm still curious how you feel about my last question.
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Post by ahunter8056 on Dec 4, 2013 13:04:43 GMT -5
People can be free to worship who or whatever they want it just needs to be kept to themselves and stay in their homes. Religion has no place in schools, government or anywhere in the public. And religion may be a human right but it also seriously infringes on human rights. Religion has had nothing but detrimental effects on humanity since it was first conceived by our ancient newly evolved ancestors. I think this has to be one of the posts on WF that I completely 100% agree with. Why people are happy to believe a clearly fictional story instead of the depressing truth that nothing happens after death in this day and age astounds me. Sure, it would be awesome if there was an afterlife, but it's not logical, and has as much validity of someone wishing to be rich and seconds later winning the lottery. Also before anyone who thinks otherwise decides to bash my post, don't bother. I am not looking for a debate. I am merely just stating my opinion on the matter. On the topic of religion in education, I agree about it being oppressive. For one thing Religious Education is a mandatory GCSE subject, which is complete bull in my opinion. I wouldn't mind so much if it was optional, but the fact that I had to be bombarded by religious propaganda every week for 5 years just angered me at the time. Not only that, but one time in RE my teacher outright said "Evolution is not true". How delusional can these people get?! Evolution is a proven fact. It happens. How people can be this stupid astounds me.
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