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Post by GBGav on Dec 4, 2013 16:12:13 GMT -5
On the topic of religion in education, I agree about it being oppressive. For one thing Religious Education is a mandatory GCSE subject, which is complete bull in my opinion. I wouldn't mind so much if it was optional, but the fact that I had to be bombarded by religious propaganda every week for 5 years just angered me at the time. Not only that, but one time in RE my teacher outright said "Evolution is not true". How delusional can these people get?! Evolution is a proven fact. It happens. How people can be this stupid astounds me. I didn't like having to do R.E at school either. The teacher was a nice person and didn't preach anything but it was still a waste of time. The exam was surprisingly one of the easiest to pass as I got a C without even trying or even paying much attention in class. I just wrote what they wanted to hear for the most part, but still going off on the odd tangent about how religion is rubbish.
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Dec 5, 2013 10:34:13 GMT -5
It was added in the 50s for propagandist reasons. The original pledge makes no reference to God as do none of the versions upto that one which we use today. Considering a democracy & a republic are both derivative of pagan values, we aren't, nor have we ever truly been one nation under whatever bearded man in the sky you assume is God.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2013 10:44:11 GMT -5
Religion shouldn't be "banned" per se, as clearly everyone has their right to believe in whatever they want. But it really should be removed from the public. Having creationism taught in schools when it directly contradicts fact and logic is just wrong. Having it forced onto people is the entire problem in a nutshell.
I went to a catholic primary school and knew it was all impossible/make believe/bollocks at the age of 5.
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Dec 5, 2013 10:55:14 GMT -5
This is what I have to say to everyone who has posted in this thread in relations religious advocacy.
Ahem...
Any ideas that are not built upon some form of non-deluded logic & reasoning based upon evidence that can be proven is worthless. Therefore all religion is indefinitely void of all value. Freedom of speech has to have it's limits. You have a right to propose your ideas in a civilized manner, but no religion has any place in Government & only belongs in two educational subjects.
A component of history as MYTHOLOGY.
Islam causes immense suffering whether it's genital mutilation, beheading of non-believers, promoting terrorist extremism, to simple misogyny, bigotry, & fear of one's moral inadequacy. They are all unnecessary evils that obviously will NOT be completely eliminated by the extinguishing of religious practice, but it will remove the largest barrier between our current society & the utopian ideal. That act of preparing the world for future generations is true altruism, as opposed to claiming true salvation only comes after death.
Religion is the security blanket that humanity needed to throw away centuries ago, but only now has come to truly discover that it's prized possession is cover in disease.
If it can be claimed without legitimate evidence than it can be demised without evidence. That is the summary of religion's utter lack of validity.
I cannot express how embarrassed I am by the stupidity of some of the individuals in this thread.
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Joined on: Sept 29, 2024 2:29:32 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2013 11:03:35 GMT -5
This is what I have to say to everyone who has posted in this thread in relations religious advocacy. Ahem... Any ideas that are not built upon some form of non-deluded logic & reasoning based upon evidence that can be proven is worthless. Therefore all religion is indefinitely void of all value. Freedom of speech has to have it's limits. You have a right to propose your ideas in a civilized manner, but no religion has any place in Government & only belongs in two educational subjects. A component of history as MYTHOLOGY. Islam causes immense suffering whether it's genital mutilation, beheading of non-believers, promoting terrorist extremism, to simple misogyny, bigotry, & fear of one's moral inadequacy. They are all unnecessary evils that obviously will NOT be completely eliminated by the extinguishing of religious practice, but it will remove the largest barrier between our current society & the utopian ideal. That act of preparing the world for future generations is true altruism, as opposed to claiming true salvation only comes after death. Religion is the security blanket that humanity needed to throw away centuries ago, but only now has come to truly discover that it's prized possession is cover in disease. If it can be claimed without legitimate evidence than it can be demised without evidence. That is the summary of religion's utter lack of validity. I cannot express how embarrassed I am by the stupidity of some of the individuals in this thread. ahem...
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Post by Tim of thee on Dec 5, 2013 13:05:28 GMT -5
Religion shouldn't be "banned" per se, as clearly everyone has their right to believe in whatever they want. But it really should be removed from the public. Having creationism taught in schools when it directly contradicts fact and logic is just wrong. Having it forced onto people is the entire problem in a nutshell. I went to a catholic primary school and knew it was all impossible/make believe/bollocks at the age of 5. I went to public school and wasn't taught any form of creationism in all the years I've been in the system. It's something you learn in a club or outside of school. I'd like to know which public schools are teaching creationism as a requirement.
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Post by Lord Ragnarok on Dec 5, 2013 13:06:40 GMT -5
I don't have any religious friends because all the ones I've come across are either douchebags, extremely hypocritical, whackjobs or all of the above. Plus I don't want to associate myself with grown adults that believe in talking snakes, burning bushes, cockatrices, resurrections and other mythological fairy tale nonsense. I only associate with rational and logical people that follow science in place of an invisible sky daddy. With all your cliches aside... you and I couldn't be friends then? If I could read, in context, what you're trying to say, there wouldn't be a chance for that happening? Let's say we were in line at a grocery store (assume we just met for the first time) and I lean back and said something like "man can't wait for the 4 day weekend" to break the ice. Then we continued chatting, making small talk about how nice the weather had been, etc.. Then you asked me what I was doing for Thanksgiving and I said something like "I'm volunteering at my wife's church. We are feeding the homeless," would you write me off right then and there?Umm... No, obviously not. It's when you start telling me to read the Bible and that I need to accept Jesus as my "lord" and "savior" to avoid going to hell for eternity that I would write you off. Or if you started to tell me how evolution is a lie or that dinosaurs and man once lived side by side or some other ridiculous nonsense. I don't have any religious friends because all the ones I've come across are either douchebags, extremely hypocritical, whackjobs or all of the above. Plus I don't want to associate myself with grown adults that believe in talking snakes, burning bushes, cockatrices, resurrections and other mythological fairy tale nonsense. I only associate with rational and logical people that follow science in place of an invisible sky daddy. Wow. When I read this I found myself pitying you. It's sad. I have friends who are Christians. I have friends who are Muslims. I have friends who are Jews. I have friends who are non-religious. We get along fine, we can talk about our religions and what we believe without being mocked and criticized and, I feel, it makes me a better person to be surrounded by a wide variety of people. I think it would be tragic if the only people around me were also Christians and we all believed the exact same thing. I feel sorry for you. Not gonna lie. You're missing out on some great friendships by isolating yourself this way. If you want to surround yourself with grown adults that believe in fairy tales, more power to you. As for me, I'm all set with that and I really don't believe I'm missing out on much by avoiding these types of people. I'd much rather surround myself with scientists and scholars and other non-religious persons. I made a misstatement. Let me rephrase myself, I firmly stand by my belief that religion does nothing for humanity. Anyway, I don't understand you. You are such a stickler for evidence, yet you put your faith in something that has zero evidence to back it up. I don't understand it. There is absolutely zero evidence that god exists, that anything in the Bible actually happened, and even the existence of Jesus. And I agree, it's the extremists that follow the Bible and Quran to the T. But what about the non-extremists that still promote the Bible and Quran. Are they promoting edited versions. No. They're all the same. The non-extremists are the ones that cherry pick the good stuff and ignore the bad. Both the Bible and Quran clearly state that they must be followed to a T, so the ones that don't, what's up with them? Are they not going to go to heaven because they don't follow every single ridiculous commandment? There maybe less extremists now, but they were more numerous in the past. Since religion was first conceived countless lives were needlessly lost and wasted. Extremists get their ways straight from the source material, so basically if it wasn't for religion we wouldn't have extremists at all. And the Middle East would not be so ed either. You hit the nail on the head right there. Finally there is something we can agree on 100%. My faith is just that, it's faith. I have never claimed that there is imperical evidence to prove God exists or that my religion is true. If that were the case, this discusscion would be silly. We might as well be discussing whether Newton's Second Law is real. It'd be a dumb discussion. Why do I believe? I believe because I find my faith to be a comfort to me. There have been times in my life when I hit rock bottom (been there more once) and when I was, I've cried out in the night and found a God who heard me and answered my cries. This is why I believe in God. I've had a personal experience with him. I can't prove it. I can't define it. I can't measure it, but that experience is still real to me. The idea that if we didn't have religion, no one would hold any extreme views is beyond laughable. There are so many whackjob extremist out there that have nothing at all to do with religion. Well if you need to turn to a "higher power" to get you through the day, then again, more power to you. I'm perfectly capable of handling my own situations without having to turn to an invisible sky daddy. WHY ARE YOU GUYS STILL TALKING ABOUT THIS? Jeez talk about nonsense. Are you serious? You do realize that these boards are for having discussions, right? They're not here just to talk about trivial things like wrestling figures or your favorite type of muffin or whatever. Talk about nonsense is right.
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Post by Tim of thee on Dec 5, 2013 13:15:37 GMT -5
This is what I have to say to everyone who has posted in this thread in relations religious advocacy. Ahem... Any ideas that are not built upon some form of non-deluded logic & reasoning based upon evidence that can be proven is worthless. Therefore all religion is indefinitely void of all value. Freedom of speech has to have it's limits. You have a right to propose your ideas in a civilized manner, but no religion has any place in Government & only belongs in two educational subjects. A component of history as MYTHOLOGY. Islam causes immense suffering whether it's genital mutilation, beheading of non-believers, promoting terrorist extremism, to simple misogyny, bigotry, & fear of one's moral inadequacy. They are all unnecessary evils that obviously will NOT be completely eliminated by the extinguishing of religious practice, but it will remove the largest barrier between our current society & the utopian ideal. That act of preparing the world for future generations is true altruism, as opposed to claiming true salvation only comes after death. Religion is the security blanket that humanity needed to throw away centuries ago, but only now has come to truly discover that it's prized possession is cover in disease. If it can be claimed without legitimate evidence than it can be demised without evidence. That is the summary of religion's utter lack of validity. I cannot express how embarrassed I am by the stupidity of some of the individuals in this thread. Sorry to have offended you. I didn't realize that having a different belief system embarassed your sensibilities. I don't understand why these things cannot be discussed without insulting someone's opposing beliefs.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2013 13:15:53 GMT -5
Religion shouldn't be "banned" per se, as clearly everyone has their right to believe in whatever they want. But it really should be removed from the public. Having creationism taught in schools when it directly contradicts fact and logic is just wrong. Having it forced onto people is the entire problem in a nutshell. I went to a catholic primary school and knew it was all impossible/make believe/bollocks at the age of 5. I went to public school and wasn't taught any form of creationism in all the years I've been in the system. It's something you learn in a club or outside of school. I'd like to know which public schools are teaching creationism as a requirement. They do over here in the UK. In fact I NEVER learned about Evolution until I got to Secondary School (or High School to you yanks).
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Dec 5, 2013 13:33:24 GMT -5
This is what I have to say to everyone who has posted in this thread in relations religious advocacy. Ahem... Any ideas that are not built upon some form of non-deluded logic & reasoning based upon evidence that can be proven is worthless. Therefore all religion is indefinitely void of all value. Freedom of speech has to have it's limits. You have a right to propose your ideas in a civilized manner, but no religion has any place in Government & only belongs in two educational subjects. A component of history as MYTHOLOGY. Islam causes immense suffering whether it's genital mutilation, beheading of non-believers, promoting terrorist extremism, to simple misogyny, bigotry, & fear of one's moral inadequacy. They are all unnecessary evils that obviously will NOT be completely eliminated by the extinguishing of religious practice, but it will remove the largest barrier between our current society & the utopian ideal. That act of preparing the world for future generations is true altruism, as opposed to claiming true salvation only comes after death. Religion is the security blanket that humanity needed to throw away centuries ago, but only now has come to truly discover that it's prized possession is cover in disease. If it can be claimed without legitimate evidence than it can be demised without evidence. That is the summary of religion's utter lack of validity. I cannot express how embarrassed I am by the stupidity of some of the individuals in this thread. The idea that all we can ever know about this world is what we can empirically prove is a rather shallow one IMO.
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Post by Lord Ragnarok on Dec 5, 2013 13:45:05 GMT -5
I believe this man said it best:
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Post by Lord Ragnarok on Dec 5, 2013 13:50:25 GMT -5
This is what I have to say to everyone who has posted in this thread in relations religious advocacy. Ahem... Any ideas that are not built upon some form of non-deluded logic & reasoning based upon evidence that can be proven is worthless. Therefore all religion is indefinitely void of all value. Freedom of speech has to have it's limits. You have a right to propose your ideas in a civilized manner, but no religion has any place in Government & only belongs in two educational subjects. A component of history as MYTHOLOGY. Islam causes immense suffering whether it's genital mutilation, beheading of non-believers, promoting terrorist extremism, to simple misogyny, bigotry, & fear of one's moral inadequacy. They are all unnecessary evils that obviously will NOT be completely eliminated by the extinguishing of religious practice, but it will remove the largest barrier between our current society & the utopian ideal. That act of preparing the world for future generations is true altruism, as opposed to claiming true salvation only comes after death. Religion is the security blanket that humanity needed to throw away centuries ago, but only now has come to truly discover that it's prized possession is cover in disease. If it can be claimed without legitimate evidence than it can be demised without evidence. That is the summary of religion's utter lack of validity. I cannot express how embarrassed I am by the stupidity of some of the individuals in this thread. The idea that all we can ever know about this world is what we can empirically prove is a rather shallow one IMO. Welcome to reality.
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Post by Tim of thee on Dec 5, 2013 13:59:39 GMT -5
This is what I have to say to everyone who has posted in this thread in relations religious advocacy. Ahem... Any ideas that are not built upon some form of non-deluded logic & reasoning based upon evidence that can be proven is worthless. Therefore all religion is indefinitely void of all value. Freedom of speech has to have it's limits. You have a right to propose your ideas in a civilized manner, but no religion has any place in Government & only belongs in two educational subjects. A component of history as MYTHOLOGY. Islam causes immense suffering whether it's genital mutilation, beheading of non-believers, promoting terrorist extremism, to simple misogyny, bigotry, & fear of one's moral inadequacy. They are all unnecessary evils that obviously will NOT be completely eliminated by the extinguishing of religious practice, but it will remove the largest barrier between our current society & the utopian ideal. That act of preparing the world for future generations is true altruism, as opposed to claiming true salvation only comes after death. Religion is the security blanket that humanity needed to throw away centuries ago, but only now has come to truly discover that it's prized possession is cover in disease. If it can be claimed without legitimate evidence than it can be demised without evidence. That is the summary of religion's utter lack of validity. I cannot express how embarrassed I am by the stupidity of some of the individuals in this thread. The idea that all we can ever know about this world is what we can empirically prove is a rather shallow one IMO. Ironic that the only ones in here preaching are those who are so vehemently against preaching the opposing beliefs.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Dec 5, 2013 14:09:30 GMT -5
The idea that all we can ever know about this world is what we can empirically prove is a rather shallow one IMO. Ironic that the only ones in here preaching are those who are so vehemently against preaching the opposing beliefs. It's also ironic that you see atheists claiming the only way to find truth is through empiricism while criticizing religious people for being "close minded".
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Post by GBGav on Dec 5, 2013 14:24:04 GMT -5
I believe this man said it best: Quite right. I just read a passage in 'The God Delusion' by Richard Dawkins a day or two ago which explains how we are all born with a dualist mind. The ability to conceive that there are things like a spirit or soul which can live on after our bodily vessel has expired. But we grow out of that and develop a monist mind which only accepts what is real. But some people, i.e those who believe in a personal God, don't grow out of the childish duality.
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Post by Tim of thee on Dec 5, 2013 14:35:18 GMT -5
Ironic that the only ones in here preaching are those who are so vehemently against preaching the opposing beliefs. It's also ironic that you see atheists claiming the only way to find truth is through empiricism while criticizing religious people for being "close minded". What's shocking, and a little bit scary, is that they seemed ok with banning a religion, abolishing a basic human right.
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Post by Lord Ragnarok on Dec 5, 2013 15:22:07 GMT -5
It's also ironic that you see atheists claiming the only way to find truth is through empiricism while criticizing religious people for being "close minded". What's shocking, and a little bit scary, is that they seemed ok with banning a religion, abolishing a basic human right. No. The only ironic and shocking thing here is that grown adults actually believe in talking snakes, resurrections, talking burning bushes, invisible sky daddy's, giants, cockatrices, leviathans, angels, demons, ect... Now that is truly a scary notion.
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Dec 5, 2013 16:04:16 GMT -5
This is what I have to say to everyone who has posted in this thread in relations religious advocacy. Ahem... Any ideas that are not built upon some form of non-deluded logic & reasoning based upon evidence that can be proven is worthless. Therefore all religion is indefinitely void of all value. Freedom of speech has to have it's limits. You have a right to propose your ideas in a civilized manner, but no religion has any place in Government & only belongs in two educational subjects. A component of history as MYTHOLOGY. Islam causes immense suffering whether it's genital mutilation, beheading of non-believers, promoting terrorist extremism, to simple misogyny, bigotry, & fear of one's moral inadequacy. They are all unnecessary evils that obviously will NOT be completely eliminated by the extinguishing of religious practice, but it will remove the largest barrier between our current society & the utopian ideal. That act of preparing the world for future generations is true altruism, as opposed to claiming true salvation only comes after death. Religion is the security blanket that humanity needed to throw away centuries ago, but only now has come to truly discover that it's prized possession is cover in disease. If it can be claimed without legitimate evidence than it can be demised without evidence. That is the summary of religion's utter lack of validity. I cannot express how embarrassed I am by the stupidity of some of the individuals in this thread. The idea that all we can ever know about this world is what we can empirically prove is a rather shallow one IMO. ! All of life is that is worth anything is based on evidence that can be known in someway, be it rational or empirical. Considering that I as a philosopher believe that all of life is the eternal pursuit of knowledge, & achieve this by constant changing my THEORIES TO SUIT FACTS AND NEVER FACTS TO SUIT THEORIES, where as religious doctrines are the ultimate example of "answers that must never be questioned" & when you add to that the level of contempt religious practitioners/believers hold towards any questioning of their system's consistency, validity, or purpose. Reason is the enemy of faith after all, just as the undiscovered medicine is the enemy of cancerous cells in our bodies. The shallowness of this dialogue is solely the contribution of religion with it's "I can't explain, therefore God did it" fallacy. Religion attempts to demonize the pursuit of knowledge & is the very antithesis to all medical, scientific, philosophical, & artistic progress. It attempts to provide a purpose that chains humanity to it's moral compass & teaches us to dispose our bodies & our differences. Philosophy lives by the concept that life can truly have meaning so long as we search for meaning.
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Dec 5, 2013 16:33:44 GMT -5
This is what I have to say to everyone who has posted in this thread in relations religious advocacy. Ahem... Any ideas that are not built upon some form of non-deluded logic & reasoning based upon evidence that can be proven is worthless. Therefore all religion is indefinitely void of all value. Freedom of speech has to have it's limits. You have a right to propose your ideas in a civilized manner, but no religion has any place in Government & only belongs in two educational subjects. A component of history as MYTHOLOGY. Islam causes immense suffering whether it's genital mutilation, beheading of non-believers, promoting terrorist extremism, to simple misogyny, bigotry, & fear of one's moral inadequacy. They are all unnecessary evils that obviously will NOT be completely eliminated by the extinguishing of religious practice, but it will remove the largest barrier between our current society & the utopian ideal. That act of preparing the world for future generations is true altruism, as opposed to claiming true salvation only comes after death. Religion is the security blanket that humanity needed to throw away centuries ago, but only now has come to truly discover that it's prized possession is cover in disease. If it can be claimed without legitimate evidence than it can be demised without evidence. That is the summary of religion's utter lack of validity. I cannot express how embarrassed I am by the stupidity of some of the individuals in this thread. Sorry to have offended you. I didn't realize that having a different belief system embarassed your sensibilities. I don't understand why these things cannot be discussed without insulting someone's opposing beliefs. I wasn't talking to you. I'm embarrassed by the beliefs. The complete disregard for our own power as a species. Religion doesn't give you purpose. People create their purpose. They give themselves meaning. Friedrich Nietzsche wrote it best when he said "You have your way of doings things. I have my way of doing things, but as for the one, true way to do all things, it does not exist." This was written to convey the truth that people can create validity & affirmation of themselves through a wide varieties of practice. While he lacked proper understanding of the values of altruism, he was correct in conveying that we can all find purposeful ness through many mediums. Each of which is adequate in spite of it's necessity to survival. The goal of life is not to merely survive, but thrive & truly feel fulfilled by your own actions & your attempts to spread altruistic principles by showing the world that being special is not a competition, it's a lifestyle that only need please the person who lives that life, so long as they uphold a morality to not harm others. A truly moral person doesn't function ethically out of fear of an omnipotent being. They do what they believe is best for the people they affect. If you realize that we are all cross-indexed, then your efforts are conscious of all & you try(Keyword try) your best to make decisions with this train of thought.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Dec 5, 2013 17:48:22 GMT -5
The idea that all we can ever know about this world is what we can empirically prove is a rather shallow one IMO. ! All of life is that is worth anything is based on evidence that can be known in someway, be it rational or empirical. Considering that I as a philosopher believe that all of life is the eternal pursuit of knowledge, & achieve this by constant changing my THEORIES TO SUIT FACTS AND NEVER FACTS TO SUIT THEORIES, where as religious doctrines are the ultimate example of "answers that must never be questioned" & when you add to that the level of contempt religious practitioners/believers hold towards any questioning of their system's consistency, validity, or purpose. Reason is the enemy of faith after all, just as the undiscovered medicine is the enemy of cancerous cells in our bodies. The shallowness of this dialogue is solely the contribution of religion with it's "I can't explain, therefore God did it" fallacy. Religion attempts to demonize the pursuit of knowledge & is the very antithesis to all medical, scientific, philosophical, & artistic progress. It attempts to provide a purpose that chains humanity to it's moral compass & teaches us to dispose our bodies & our differences. Philosophy lives by the concept that life can truly have meaning so long as we search for meaning. As long as we don't search for religious meaning of course. Sent from my Nexus 10 using proboards
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