|
Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Jan 8, 2015 14:15:55 GMT -5
Reigns is not better right now than Cena was back in 04/05. Cena put on quality matches with Booker T, Kurt Angle, and Jericho. I don't even recall any Cena vs Booker T matches prior to their 2006 feud (which was also pretty weak) -- I know they had matches on Smackdown in '04, but they weren't memorable at all. The really good Jericho match was after Cena had won the title and had to step up his game. Even then, his 2005 series with Angle was pretty poor, I thought. I remember Jericho in at least one snarky interview in late '05 (after he left WWE) commenting how people thought Angle was the best wrestler in the world but he wasn't having anywhere near as good matches with Cena as Jericho did. Cena had a decent 2005 after he won the title, but he wasn't consistently having great main events until 2006, and it wasn't until 2007 that he was great enough that you could put him in with marginal guys like Umaga, Lashley and Khali -- varying levels of ability and/or main-event credibility -- and still get great results. That came via working extensively in top programs with masters like Triple H, Edge and Shawn Michaels, which wouldn't have happened in the midcard. That's my point.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: Sept 23, 2024 6:14:43 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2015 14:19:55 GMT -5
Reigns is not better right now than Cena was back in 04/05. Cena put on quality matches with Booker T, Kurt Angle, and Jericho. I don't even recall any Cena vs Booker T matches prior to their 2006 feud (which was also pretty weak) -- I know they had matches on Smackdown in '04, but they weren't memorable at all. The really good Jericho match was after Cena had won the title and had to step up his game. Even then, his 2005 series with Angle was pretty poor, I thought. I remember Jericho in at least one snarky interview in late '05 (after he left WWE) commenting how people thought Angle was the best wrestler in the world but he wasn't having anywhere near as good matches with Cena as Jericho did. Cena had a decent 2005 after he won the title, but he wasn't consistently having great main events until 2006, and it wasn't until 2007 that he was great enough that you could put him in with marginal guys like Umaga, Lashley and Khali -- varying levels of ability and/or main-event credibility -- and still get great results. That came via working extensively in top programs with masters like Triple H, Edge and Shawn Michaels, which wouldn't have happened in the midcard. That's my point. I'm still not even sure to this day how Cena managed to get a pretty solid match out of Khali.
|
|
|
Post by BCizzle on Jan 8, 2015 15:06:15 GMT -5
I don't like Roman Reigns being shoved down our throats. I don't like when anybody gets shoved on us (like you, John Cena.)
But I also don't like when people here always mark out about small guys who are technically good but lack in other ares. Look and charisma and the it factor do matter. If in-ring skills are all that mattered, why isn't ROH the most popular promotion? Or is NXT the new internet darling breeding ground?
We can have both big, strong guys and small, quick guys, ya know. They make good tag teams!
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: Sept 23, 2024 6:14:43 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2015 15:07:20 GMT -5
Yokozuna went over the #1 face of the company for the title in his 3rd PPV appearance ever, his second singles PVV match, and his first PPV match with someone not named VIRGIL. And that was a mess caused by Lust Hogan refusing to work with Hart wasn't it? Not exactly a standard setting moment for the future. lol I still think it would be awesome if he turned heel like Rock at SS98 once he wins the title. Yeah Hogan really messed things up by refusing to drop to Bret. The WM9 ending wouldn't seem at all bad if we got the intended pay off.
|
|
|
Post by The Yes Man on Jan 8, 2015 18:53:02 GMT -5
Reigns is not better right now than Cena was back in 04/05. Cena put on quality matches with Booker T, Kurt Angle, and Jericho. I don't even recall any Cena vs Booker T matches prior to their 2006 feud (which was also pretty weak) -- I know they had matches on Smackdown in '04, but they weren't memorable at all. The really good Jericho match was after Cena had won the title and had to step up his game. Even then, his 2005 series with Angle was pretty poor, I thought. I remember Jericho in at least one snarky interview in late '05 (after he left WWE) commenting how people thought Angle was the best wrestler in the world but he wasn't having anywhere near as good matches with Cena as Jericho did. Cena had a decent 2005 after he won the title, but he wasn't consistently having great main events until 2006, and it wasn't until 2007 that he was great enough that you could put him in with marginal guys like Umaga, Lashley and Khali -- varying levels of ability and/or main-event credibility -- and still get great results. That came via working extensively in top programs with masters like Triple H, Edge and Shawn Michaels, which wouldn't have happened in the midcard. That's my point. Cena's debut is better than anything Roman has ever done by himself.
|
|
|
Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Jan 8, 2015 19:16:38 GMT -5
Cena's debut is better than anything Roman has ever done by himself. False. Cena's debut was awesome, but he wasn't by himself. He was in there with Kurt Angle. As an individual performance, Cena wasn't better that night than Roman Reigns' performance at Survivor Series 2013 or Royal Rumble 2014.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: Sept 23, 2024 6:14:43 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2015 19:26:57 GMT -5
Cena's proof that we can't really tell what's going to happen. Who would have thought that some corny rapper would go on to be one of the best of all time?
Nothing is set in stone..Reigns may just fizzle out, who knows?
|
|
|
Post by The Yes Man on Jan 8, 2015 19:32:18 GMT -5
Cena's debut is better than anything Roman has ever done by himself. False. Cena's debut was awesome, but he wasn't by himself. He was in there with Kurt Angle. As an individual performance, Cena wasn't better that night than Roman Reigns' performance at Survivor Series 2013 or Royal Rumble 2014. Except that it was.
|
|
|
Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Jan 8, 2015 19:49:29 GMT -5
False. Cena's debut was awesome, but he wasn't by himself. He was in there with Kurt Angle. As an individual performance, Cena wasn't better that night than Roman Reigns' performance at Survivor Series 2013 or Royal Rumble 2014. Except that it was. Are you sure that your opinion isn't clouded by the fact that you're more upset about Roman Reigns than Cena at the moment?
|
|
|
Post by The Yes Man on Jan 8, 2015 20:01:59 GMT -5
Are you sure that your opinion isn't clouded by the fact that you're more upset about Roman Reigns than Cena at the moment? Roman was booked to look dominant, it's not that his actual performance was good. You can't be booked to have a great match.
|
|
|
Post by K5 on Jan 8, 2015 20:06:31 GMT -5
i think reigns is excellent, but it's clear that he's being unfairly pushed into the spotlight at a time when he isn't ready. it shouldn't be surprising to anyone really to see wwe taking this direction. that said, let's make it clear how against it we are and try to make it right by force.
|
|
|
Post by Rob on Jan 8, 2015 20:06:52 GMT -5
Cena had charisma flowing out of his ass in 03/04. He had the crowd in the palm of his hands on a nightly basis and got over organically. Reigns is a complete snoozefest on the mic and will put the crowd to sleep with a promo over 2 lines long. They are trying to force feed him to people when he isn't even close to ready. This would be like putting Cena in his spot in 03, way before he was ready.
|
|
|
Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Jan 8, 2015 20:09:22 GMT -5
Are you sure that your opinion isn't clouded by the fact that you're more upset about Roman Reigns than Cena at the moment? Roman was booked to look dominant, it's not that his actual performance was good. False. For starters, WWE has booked plenty of wrestlers to look dominant. They didn't all get arenas chanting their name. If being booked strong was all it took, Kozlov would have been a huge star, won the title and held it for a year. He wasn't, because he never performed to the level of his dominant booking. On several occasions, Roman Reigns absolutely has. Secondly, complete nobody John Cena was booked to look competitive against main eventer Kurt Angle for a few minutes. That was a huge part of what made it great, not the performance alone. Like pretty much any great moment in wrestling, it was a combination of creative and talent.
|
|
|
Post by The Yes Man on Jan 8, 2015 20:21:04 GMT -5
Roman was booked to look dominant, it's not that his actual performance was good. False. For starters, WWE has booked plenty of wrestlers to look dominant. They didn't all get arenas chanting their name. If being booked strong was all it took, Kozlov would have been a huge star, won the title and held it for a year. He wasn't, because he never performed to the level of his dominant booking. On several occasions, Roman Reigns absolutely has. Secondly, complete nobody John Cena was booked to look competitive against main eventer Kurt Angle for a few minutes. That was a huge part of what made it great, not the performance alone. Like pretty much any great moment in wrestling, it was a combination of creative and talent. All Roman had to do was throw people and pin people. Nothing was exactly impressive other than what he did. How he did it was pretty average.
|
|
|
Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Jan 8, 2015 20:25:55 GMT -5
False. For starters, WWE has booked plenty of wrestlers to look dominant. They didn't all get arenas chanting their name. If being booked strong was all it took, Kozlov would have been a huge star, won the title and held it for a year. He wasn't, because he never performed to the level of his dominant booking. On several occasions, Roman Reigns absolutely has. Secondly, complete nobody John Cena was booked to look competitive against main eventer Kurt Angle for a few minutes. That was a huge part of what made it great, not the performance alone. Like pretty much any great moment in wrestling, it was a combination of creative and talent. All Roman had to do was throw people and pin people. Nothing was exactly impressive other than what he did. How he did it was pretty average.
|
|
Chief
Main Eventer
Joined on: Apr 21, 2008 15:36:44 GMT -5
Posts: 2,849
|
Post by Chief on Jan 8, 2015 21:14:03 GMT -5
Roman Reigns should be Goldberg. No idea why they are putting him in long, boring matches. The one against Rollins last week being the prime example. Reigns should be killing Big Show each week with Big Show doing dastardly heel crapto build to rematches. that, Reigns should be squashing Big Show each week. The people aren't quite into his wrestling but they still go crazy for his comeback and signature moves. Thus that should be what you display until he gets to that point. And this scripted promo crapis terrible. Is it that hard to have the dude come out and say "I'm gonna kick this guys ass"? They want him to be the Rock when they should want him to be Goldberg. This mid card Big Show crapain't helping.
|
|
|
Post by johnnyb on Jan 8, 2015 21:30:55 GMT -5
Roman Reigns should be Goldberg. No idea why they are putting him in long, boring matches. The one against Rollins last week being the prime example. Reigns should be killing Big Show each week with Big Show doing dastardly heel crap to build to rematches. that, Reigns should be squashing Big Show each week. The people aren't quite into his wrestling but they still go crazy for his comeback and signature moves. Thus that should be what you display until he gets to that point. And this scripted promo crap is terrible. Is it that hard to have the dude come out and say "I'm gonna kick this guys ass"? They want him to be the Rock when they should want him to be Goldberg. This mid card Big Show crap ain't helping. This is a great post. The reason why so many of us were enjoying Roman Reigns as part of the Shield (and why many are very strongly opposed to him winning the Rumble/title at 'Mania) is that in the Shield, he was protected, especially when the group was babyfaces for a few months. Rollins or Ambrose would take all of the heat from the opponents, make a hot tag to Roman, and he'd murder everyone and win the match in three minutes. They should be using that approach to him as a singles wrestler too. In a perfect world, they would have booked him much lower in the card upon his return so he could go week-by-week just trucking guys and building momentum in the ring (as opposed to behind the scenes, through no fault of his own). Crowds largely do not respond to him in the ring unless it's the Superman punch or the spear. They should be taking advantage of that instead of putting him in a position that he isn't nearly ready for. Two to three years from now, I'd absolutely be ready for Roman Reigns to rule the world. He'd have time to learn how to execute singles matches by working with veterans and would get more reps on the mic (or better yet, take the silent killer aspect of Goldberg, too). Then push him to the moon. If it's organic, people will buy it. Alternate idea that I'd be okay with: Put Reigns in a feud with Rusev going into 'Mania and have him be the one to end the streak instead of Cena. Then give him six months or so with the US title. I'd probably be a lot more open to him as the new face of the company if I just had a little more time to get invested in him.
|
|
|
Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Jan 8, 2015 22:49:02 GMT -5
Roman Reigns should be Goldberg. No idea why they are putting him in long, boring matches. The one against Rollins last week being the prime example. Reigns should be killing Big Show each week with Big Show doing dastardly heel crap to build to rematches. that, Reigns should be squashing Big Show each week. The people aren't quite into his wrestling but they still go crazy for his comeback and signature moves. Thus that should be what you display until he gets to that point. Exactly. Work long on house shows to improve that skillset, and on TV, keep everything short and sweet. It's absolutely insane what they're doing with the Big Show thing. The first two nights, interfering at TLC and then punching Show off the apron on Raw, were perfect. Then on Smackdown that week, they had Reigns selling for Fandango and in the weeks since, he's still been unable to beat Show. They've been doing the same thing with Ryback, too, having long matches selling for guys way down the card.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: Sept 23, 2024 6:14:44 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2015 6:17:56 GMT -5
Roman Reigns should be Goldberg. No idea why they are putting him in long, boring matches. The one against Rollins last week being the prime example. Reigns should be killing Big Show each week with Big Show doing dastardly heel crap to build to rematches. that, Reigns should be squashing Big Show each week. The people aren't quite into his wrestling but they still go crazy for his comeback and signature moves. Thus that should be what you display until he gets to that point. Exactly. Work long on house shows to improve that skillset, and on TV, keep everything short and sweet. It's absolutely insane what they're doing with the Big Show thing. The first two nights, interfering at TLC and then punching Show off the apron on Raw, were perfect. Then on Smackdown that week, they had Reigns selling for Fandango and in the weeks since, he's still been unable to beat Show. They've been doing the same thing with Ryback, too, having long matches selling for guys way down the card. 100% agree with both of you on this.
|
|
|
Post by punksnotdead on Jan 9, 2015 10:00:41 GMT -5
Roman Reigns should be Goldberg. No idea why they are putting him in long, boring matches. The one against Rollins last week being the prime example. Reigns should be killing Big Show each week with Big Show doing dastardly heel crap to build to rematches. that, Reigns should be squashing Big Show each week. The people aren't quite into his wrestling but they still go crazy for his comeback and signature moves. Thus that should be what you display until he gets to that point. Exactly. Work long on house shows to improve that skillset, and on TV, keep everything short and sweet. It's absolutely insane what they're doing with the Big Show thing. The first two nights, interfering at TLC and then punching Show off the apron on Raw, were perfect. Then on Smackdown that week, they had Reigns selling for Fandango and in the weeks since, he's still been unable to beat Show. They've been doing the same thing with Ryback, too, having long matches selling for guys way down the card.To be fair, when Ryback was having quick, dominant, squash matches, the crowd was chanting Goldberg at him. Even with Reigns using a spear, because his look is so different, he can get away with more than Ryback. They could give Reigns a spear and jackhammer, and I think he could get away with it before Ryback could get away with having shorter squash matches using a completely unique moveset. As irrational as the idea may be, the audience branded Ryback as a Goldberg copy immediately and I think Ryback and WWE have worked really hard to get away from that idea by giving him longer matches and giving him promo time like they did last week.
|
|