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Post by slappy on Feb 4, 2015 11:41:39 GMT -5
If it fails, he could put the mask on and they could act like he's a new guy we've never seen before.
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Post by Lk™ on Feb 4, 2015 11:43:53 GMT -5
I can't see it happening, mainly because there's too many $$$ with a masked star if rey is done, and Del Sol is arguably better than rey
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Post by Wato Stan Account on Feb 4, 2015 11:47:55 GMT -5
Isn't the whole point of replacing Rey to bring in someone who will supplement his merchandise sales? Kalisto as a masked wrestler could possible do just that. As a gay hairstylist, I doubt he will. I do think WWE should reunite the PTP and openly acknowledge Darren being gay. Don't treat him any different but just don't ignore it either. You DON'T think WWE could sell a ton of hair products with this?!?! Yeah neither do I, sounds like it would bleach someone's brain. |
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Post by Calcifer Boheme on Feb 4, 2015 12:33:51 GMT -5
This is awful for multiple reasons.
A) Kalisto is great as is. and that mask would make WWE a ton of money.
B) Even if you want to do a gay gimmick, why do we keep having to bow to stereotypes? They could easily have a guy be the toughest around and not effeminate at all, but be gay. Pat Patterson is a great real life example in the business. Darren Young could be used great in that regard.
C) We don't need another wrestling hair stylist.
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Post by MADNESS_NH_97 on Feb 4, 2015 12:38:15 GMT -5
They could make twice as much Money with the Lucha Dragons as with Rey Mysterio alone. But they are a NXT Tag Team with automatically makes them worthless for Vince  Robert Kirkman in Walking Dead presented a gay character the way a gay character should be presented imo. He introduced him, made him  ing awesome, and had him do all these badass missions and fight panels, and then casually showed us a peak into his private life, wherein we figure out the character is gay. It wasn't about the character being gay, he wasn't defined by his sexuality, and it broke away any opportunity for the reader to have a preconceived idea of who that character was before we really got to know his character. As a straight male, I have absolutely no issue, whatsoever, saying this character is my favorite in the entire Walking Dead universe. WWE should put this to practice. Not a stereotype, not a comic relief wrestler, but they should introduce a guy, make him bad ing ass and then casually reference the character as gay. I honestly think Baron Corbin is the type of guy this kind of thing would work perfectly for if WWE wants to represent the gay community on WWE TV. No he's not gay, to my knowledge, but his sexuality is so insignificant to his character that it wouldn't matter if he was gay or straight or whatever. This is where Vince being 70 and out of touch really embarrasses the product imo. He's from a different time. So where he thinks these stereotype characters are funny, most of his viewing audience finds them to be passé. Millennials, as comical is that is, don't see in color, they don't live in a world where barriers exist the same way they did when HHH was coming into prominence in the 90s and kissing Shawn Michaels on live TV was seen as provocative. Vince isn't ever going to get that and therefore he shouldn't be behind designing or architecting what a gay character should be in 2015, imo. I agree with the Darren Young sentiment, but the guy isn't very good. I would be in favor of putting together the PTPs again though. The tag division needs them and I think they were hilarious. Kalisto is an incredibly flashy performer. If he's hiding an ocean of personality under that mask, they should wait to use it. Introduce him, let him wow the audience for a couple of years and then when the time is right, let someone take the mask off of him. At which point, he can start a new phase of his career. This is something WCW did with Rey that was far better than anything WWE did with him, which was send him out there like a robot to hit the 619 until his knees fell off his body. Well a huge part of the Crowd is full of marks ! And it is obvious what they will do with Guys that have certain Gimmicks or Looks ! They made fun of The Wyatt Family because of the Beards ! They made fun of Daniel Bryan because of the Beard ! They totally underrate guys like Bo Dallas & Adam Rose/Leo Kruger because of their Gimmicks ! And the most recent failure was The Ascension that turned into L.O.D Rip Ofs ! And what could be next is Adrian Neville as Mighty Mouse(which hopefully is just going to be Little Guy that is Stronger than he looks) ! I hope you understand what my problem is ! If they want to take the Mask of... OKAY ! DO IT ! It worked for El Generico so it also can work for Samurai Del Sol/Kalisto but in the end the only part of the WWE Universe that Vince McMahon cares about are these Marks that will most likley bash Kalisto if he would have a Gay Hairstylist Gimmick ! |
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Post by T R W on Feb 4, 2015 12:44:03 GMT -5
Nothing says 2015 like a wrestler with a gay hairdresser stereotype.
Gimmick characters who have other "professions" are terrible no matter what. But outdated caricatures are even worse.
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Post by punksnotdead on Feb 4, 2015 12:46:51 GMT -5
^ I agree that WWE has had some trouble transitioning talent from NXT to the main roster. They were smart enough to leave Bray alone, they hit a grand slam though with The Shield and since that time they've struggled. Vince just has a perverse mind imo, so a lot of his ideas are absurd. I do think Bo Dallas was hitting his stride before he got hurt, to some degree anyway. I don't think Adam Rose was ever going to work on the main roster, at least not the way he was doing it.
The real test will be Zayn and Balor imo. If they largely leave those two alone then they get a pass from me. I do think Kalisto is money, but he can do it outside of the Lucha Dragons imo. I don't know that he'll ever be Rey Mysterio money though. I do get the concern over changing these guys when they find something that works down in NXT but the main roster some times demands something different.
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Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Feb 4, 2015 12:51:37 GMT -5
Robert Kirkman in Walking Dead presented a gay character the way a gay character should be presented imo. He introduced him, made him ing awesome, and had him do all these badass missions and fight panels, and then casually showed us a peak into his private life, wherein we figure out the character is gay. It wasn't about the character being gay In which case, it's pointless as a wrestling gimmick. Sexuality isn't a gimmick unless it's used, which in the wrestling genre means exaggerated. It'd be like sending Mean Mark to the ring to do squash matches in 1990 and having the commentators casually mention that he's also a time-travelling zombie with a side job burying bodies in the wild west. If the purpose is simply to have a wrestler on the roster who is gay and it's no big deal, they already have that with Darren Young. If the purpose is to get someone over and then decide the character is going to come out as gay for no reason other than shock value then never really mention it or use it, they could do it with someone who is already reasonably over. Ziggler, for example. |
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Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Feb 4, 2015 12:57:30 GMT -5
I can't see it. Kalisto is pretty much Rey Mysterio 2.0 and they're leaving a lot of money on the table not exploiting that. Although at the same time, maybe their concern is that he'd be seen as a Rey rip-off if they debut him the way he's been in NXT. The real test will be Zayn and Balor imo. If they largely leave those two alone then they get a pass from me. I do think Kalisto is money, but he can do it outside of the Lucha Dragons imo. I don't know that he'll ever be Rey Mysterio money though. I do get the concern over changing these guys when they find something that works down in NXT but the main roster some times demands something different. Zayn absolutely needs little alteration and all he needs is to get on the show and build that grassroots familiarity with the larger fanbase, but Balor looks nowhere near ready for the main roster until he makes changes and figures out what his character is. The weird prancing entrance has nothing to do with anything because when the bell rings, he's just another wrestler guy. They need to either poop or get off the pot because he's a fair bit older than a lot of guys who are already on the roster. Is he a (gay?) weirdo trying to play mind games? If he is, his in-ring work needs a lot of modifying. And if he isn't, the entrance is pointless. |
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Post by HVMMONS on Feb 4, 2015 13:04:12 GMT -5
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Post by punksnotdead on Feb 4, 2015 13:37:10 GMT -5
I can't see it. Kalisto is pretty much Rey Mysterio 2.0 and they're leaving a lot of money on the table not exploiting that. Although at the same time, maybe their concern is that he'd be seen as a Rey rip-off if they debut him the way he's been in NXT. The real test will be Zayn and Balor imo. If they largely leave those two alone then they get a pass from me. I do think Kalisto is money, but he can do it outside of the Lucha Dragons imo. I don't know that he'll ever be Rey Mysterio money though. I do get the concern over changing these guys when they find something that works down in NXT but the main roster some times demands something different. Zayn absolutely needs little alteration and all he needs is to get on the show and build that grassroots familiarity with the larger fanbase, but Balor looks nowhere near ready for the main roster until he makes changes and figures out what his character is. The weird prancing entrance has nothing to do with anything because when the bell rings, he's just another wrestler guy. They need to either poop or get off the pot because he's a fair bit older than a lot of guys who are already on the roster. Is he a (gay?) weirdo trying to play mind games? If he is, his in-ring work needs a lot of modifying. And if he isn't, the entrance is pointless. I genuinely don't think you believe any of that but I'll just contend that you're wrong regardless. Example, Jeff Hardy. Also, Balor's entrance was probably the most talked about element of the last NXT show. You trying to discredit an enigma character that people are absolutely going to love out of pure spectacle isn't anything to debate. I do agree that he needs to be called up soon because he's 33 but then he just made his in-ring debut on NXT at the end of October. He seems to be picking it up pretty quickly for a guy that's been there all of 4 months. My only concern over his in-ring ability is his finisher. I don't want to see the double foot stomp in every single match. It's fine for NXT because he's getting the routine down, but a brain buster or a variation of Bloody Sunday should be his go-to for just casual matches, so used deliberately just like the body paint. Balor is an international corporate boyscout. He's going to say all of the right things, do all of the right things, and he's genuine in that he means every word of it. Charity, fan events, he wants it all and has the drive to prove he can be that guy for WWE. He's best for business. He's a guy that internet fans and the mass audience alike can fall in love with and I think they will. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2015 13:40:13 GMT -5
Hate when WWE use Stereotypes...
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Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Feb 4, 2015 13:58:46 GMT -5
I genuinely don't think you believe any of that but I'll just contend that you're wrong regardless. Example, Jeff Hardy. Also, Balor's entrance was probably the most talked about element of the last NXT show. You trying to discredit an enigma character that people are absolutely going to love out of pure spectacle isn't anything to debate. Going to love if they already loved his work prior to WWE, perhaps. But in reality, the weird entrance combined with standard wrestler deal once the bell rings just doesn't work. Jeff Hardy was absolutely consistent from the second he stepped through the curtain. Finn Balor talks in awkward generic promos, then does the weird prancing to the ring, then just wrestles in a way that has nothing to do with the "character" he plays in the entrance. There's a huge disconnect to it. Certain types of fans will never ever want to acknowledge that, but it is absolutely the case. He's got a long way to go to be ready, especially when compared to the NXT standouts like Zayn and Owens. Hell, even Adrian Neville is a guy whose main roster chances seem uncertain, but there's nothing to his act that has a "wtflol" factor that could sink him. With Finn Balor, debuting as is would likely go the way of Adam Rose, and that would be a shame because he's got a lot more upside than Rose. I just hope he figures his gimmick out before he hits 35 because that might well be the point when they give up on him. |
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Post by Wato Stan Account on Feb 4, 2015 14:18:11 GMT -5
Hate when WWE use Stereotypes... So you hate WWE? It's basically made of them. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2015 14:18:49 GMT -5
Hate when WWE use Stereotypes... So you hate WWE? It's basically made of them. Hmmm...... Hard question Kinda lost faith since 2010
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Post by punksnotdead on Feb 4, 2015 14:31:56 GMT -5
I genuinely don't think you believe any of that but I'll just contend that you're wrong regardless. Example, Jeff Hardy. Also, Balor's entrance was probably the most talked about element of the last NXT show. You trying to discredit an enigma character that people are absolutely going to love out of pure spectacle isn't anything to debate. Going to love if they already loved his work prior to WWE, perhaps. But in reality, the weird entrance combined with standard wrestler deal once the bell rings just doesn't work. Jeff Hardy was absolutely consistent from the second he stepped through the curtain. Finn Balor talks in awkward generic promos, then does the weird prancing to the ring, then just wrestles in a way that has nothing to do with the "character" he plays in the entrance. There's a huge disconnect to it. Certain types of fans will never ever want to acknowledge that, but it is absolutely the case. He's got a long way to go to be ready, especially when compared to the NXT standouts like Zayn and Owens. Hell, even Adrian Neville is a guy whose main roster chances seem uncertain, but there's nothing to his act that has a "wtflol" factor that could sink him. With Finn Balor, debuting as is would likely go the way of Adam Rose, and that would be a shame because he's got a lot more upside than Rose. I just hope he figures his gimmick out before he hits 35 because that might well be the point when they give up on him. Fair enough. I get where you're coming from even if I don't agree with it. I also don't think Jeff was very good in the ring until the back end of the mid 2000s in terms of consistency. He was more daredevil than actual talent. Balor's got an RVD quality to him between the ropes for me and RVD had absolutely no character or gimmick whatsoever, pretty much ever. Mix that skill with the bizarre Jeff Hardy x-factor and I'm confident he's going to figure it all out sooner rather than later. For the record, his gimmick is that he elevates his game when he's wearing the paint, so like a symbiote is controlling his body. So it's not really confusing and I'm sure Michael Cole would be happy to explain it to us 5,000 different times. I have no personal issue with his non painted entrance, that's just how he poses along with his music. I've never seen anyone make a deal out of that before you. I would say the majority of fans are seeing him for the fist time in NXT too. It's not like he came into WWE with an AJ Styles level internet love affair where he was on America TV for a decade before he got to WWE. I honestly don't think Neville has a very high ceiling. I've been pretty consistent with that since he's joined NXT. He's got wow factor in the ring but it's in an Evan Bourne kind of way. He can't talk and is hard to understand, he's rough to look at, and has no gimmick. He also lacks the exotic factor of someone like Itami who they can plug as this big huge Japanese star and just pair with a manager. Neville is a work rate guy and I hope it's enough to keep him around the midcard for long enough to make a career go at it. He's more gymnast than sports entertainer imo. That's good and all but we call that John Morrison. Also, no way in hell Owens makes the main roster before Balor. Absolutely no way. That's coming from a guy who is a giant Kevin Steen fan and thinks KO is about to be NXT Champion. |
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Post by K5 on Feb 4, 2015 14:50:03 GMT -5
i'm not sure if wwe has the creative maturity to handle a homosexual character in 2015, but i guess we'll see if they make a billy and chuck out of him or not.
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Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Feb 4, 2015 14:54:44 GMT -5
Fair enough. I get where you're coming from even if I don't agree with it. I also don't think Jeff was very good in the ring until the back end of the mid 2000s in terms of consistency. He was more daredevil than actual talent. I mean consistent as a character -- he was never a very consistent wrestler, what with the demons and all. But everything he did matched everything else he did. RVD's another one who fit everything he did though. His "whatever, dude" interviews fit his entrance and his matches. I think Balor's got more potential than either RVD or Jeff in lots of ways, it's just the awkward "umm... Tyson Kidd, I hope you're, er, ready for a challenge, because... I am" interviews don't fit the entrance, and the entrance doesn't fit the match. In a way, it's almost like the knock on Warrior, that he was just an entrance. Balor's pretty much that right now because it's the only part of his act that stands out. So it's pretty much like Roman Reigns cocking his fist like a shotgun or Warrior getting superpowers from the heavens. I can get behind that (as long as it results in a noticable difference in the ring), but his entrance when he's painted up doesn't irk me as much as the weird prancey one he does on every NXT which just looks weird when he's Standard Wrestling Gear Man. I don't mind Neville's promos so much. I have friends from the same region so I probably have an easier time understanding his accent, but I find his mic work to be fine. Not great, not even good, but fine. Reasonable. Miles better than the likes of Cesaro and Morrison, and no worse than guys like Bret Hart and Ziggler. That said, I have no faith at all that he can make a significant impact on the main roster, and if he does it'll probably be because the plucky underdog/superhero gimmick catches on. It depends. I'd consider Owens a lock to make the main roster -- his main obstacle is if they think Bray Wyatt means they're covered for fat guys who wrestle in street clothes. Apart from that, he will make it if he wants to. With Balor, somewhat similar to Itami, it seems a little different. They're used to wrestling their way in front of big crowds and getting used to WWE may be harder or taking longer than they thought... Like if the intention was to do what Bryan did in FCW and just do a few bits and pieces to acclimatise before joining the full WWE roster, but then it turns out (as it has) that they are quite some way from being ready. That can mess with a guy's head when he's hitting his mid-thirties and you've got wrestlers winning the titles and headlining shows (in developmental and main roster) who are five or six years younger. |
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Post by The Natural Eddy Valintino on Feb 4, 2015 15:50:00 GMT -5
I'll believe it when I see it....
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Post by Yambag Jones on Feb 4, 2015 15:57:23 GMT -5
I'm calling bulls*t. WWE is dumb and lacks imagination, but they can't be THAT bad.
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