Team Madness
Mid-Carder
Joined on: May 4, 2015 18:30:26 GMT -5
Posts: 403 
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Post by Team Madness on Mar 31, 2019 23:19:26 GMT -5
I like Bret, a great in ring worker, genuinely cared about the business. Brought credibility to the term ‘wrestling’ in a time during the 90s when it was mostly gimmicks with awful actual wrestling. His stuff in all of 1997 was incredible. Anti America Bret was 🔥
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Thunder Chunky
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 1, 2010 21:57:30 GMT -5
Posts: 4,545
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Post by Thunder Chunky on Apr 1, 2019 0:20:10 GMT -5
The single most overrated performer in the history of pro wrestling. Incredibly boring to watch. The only match of his I enjoy is Austin at WrestleMania 13, and that's more on Austin than it is Bret. Never got it with him, and I never will.  |
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Post by hbkjason on Apr 1, 2019 1:07:54 GMT -5
One of my all time favorites no matter if it was against Demolition with the Hart Foundation, Mr Perfect at SummerSlam, Roddy Piper at WrestleMania, Diesel at Survivor Series, Owen at Summerslam, Austin at WrestleMania or even some random dude on Superstars. Bret Hart always had a match that made sense and was fun to watch.
Everything Bret Hart did in the ring was so smooth and his name, "the excellence of execution" really was not a gimmick as everything that he did was great. I even think that his promos are nowhere near as bad as most people make out. A true pro and well deserving as being regarded as one of the all time greats.
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winxclubflora
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Feb 28, 2017 6:47:55 GMT -5
Posts: 383
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Post by winxclubflora on Apr 1, 2019 3:40:14 GMT -5
My opinion on Bret: 5:38 - 5:56 and again from 6:34 - 6:40
Edit: Rest in peace Brian Pillman and Owen Hart. You both deserved better.
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Post by FLUX on Apr 1, 2019 3:55:12 GMT -5
Overrated, boring, and now he's just a bitter old man.
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Post by Hulkster2001 on Apr 1, 2019 7:09:46 GMT -5
Overrated, boring, and now he's just a bitter old man. Stole the words from right from my mouth |
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Post by Gorilla on Apr 1, 2019 13:10:29 GMT -5
He was a great worker but his stuff could get repetitive, leg sweep, back breaker, elbow from middle rope. He really came into his own around 1994 and became a much more interesting wrestler with more variation.
I have Savage #1, Bret #2.
I never really had a #3, I guess I'd give it to Shawn. I don't know if anyone remembers this or not, but when Goldberg was on the streak, I'd be at high school parties and all us guys would stop talking to girls to watch Goldberg destroy someone. He was amazing to see. The jackhammer was the most over move, especially when he got the Giant up.
Back to Bret, he would have had amazing matches with Owen, Kurt, Benoit, Jericho, Malenko, maybe even some newer guys like Orton, Cena, Edge, Christian.
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Post by warriorlynx on Apr 1, 2019 13:20:20 GMT -5
The Hard Truth about Bret:
Pros:
1. One of the all time greatest "technical" wrestlers and workers (he'd be willing to work in a high school gym if he had to as the top guy)
2. Helped pave the way for Stone Cold Steve Austin
Cons:
1. One of the biggest whiners in the business (ie. 4/10, blah blah blah)
2. Idolized himself way too much (house was filled with his posters,pics,trophies etc all over the place it made Scott Hall think he was crazy)
3. Refused to put his own brother Owen over at Wrestlemania X, but was forced to do so
4. Thinks way too highly of his career, when he wasn't a huge draw
5. Refused to drop the WWF title leading to the screwjob (all he had to do was drop it to Shamrock on RAW wtf)
6. Made a lot of things about himself (he was one of the reasons for Diesel to leave in 96)
Damn too many cons sorry. I'll stop :E
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Post by HandsomeHollywood on Apr 1, 2019 14:26:37 GMT -5
The Hard Truth about Bret: Pros: 1. One of the all time greatest "technical" wrestlers and workers (he'd be willing to work in a high school gym if he had to as the top guy) 2. Helped pave the way for Stone Cold Steve Austin Cons: 1. One of the biggest whiners in the business (ie. 4/10, blah blah blah) 2. Idolized himself way too much (house was filled with his posters,pics,trophies etc all over the place it made Scott Hall think he was crazy) 3. Refused to put his own brother Owen over at Wrestlemania X, but was forced to do so 4. Thinks way too highly of his career, when he wasn't a huge draw 5. Refused to drop the WWF title leading to the screwjob (all he had to do was drop it to Shamrock on RAW wtf)
6. Made a lot of things about himself (he was one of the reasons for Diesel to leave in 96) Damn too many cons sorry. I'll stop :E I disagree with almost every con. The guy took himself seriously. I don't see that as a knock when it comes to someone's work. Citing Hall is especially suspect as Hall rarely wanted to put any effort in and would have rathered drinking beer in the back with his buddies, hanging out. I don't recall Bret ever refusing to put Owen over, but in that case it doesn't make a lot of sense for Bret to lose at the start of the night, and then win the title by the end. There's logic to it. I don't think giving an honest opinion about today's stuff is the same as whining. Just because he's not a fan, it doesn't mean he's crying. Also with the screw job Bret had every right to refuse to drop the belt to Shawn. Everyone forgets that Bret had creative control over his character during the final 30 days of his contract. He legally didn't have to drop it. Vince was the one demanding it be dropped to a mess of a man (at the time) Shawn Michaels who also refused to put anyone but his friends over. Bret wasn't even unwilling to drop the belt, just didn't want to do it that night in Canada or to Shawn (Shawn told Bret to his face that he'd never do the honors for Bret after Mania 12). That may have been character assassination and could have effected his drawing power when leaving the WWE. Cant blame a guy for protecting his money. Vince was even on board with coming up with something different. It was the Kliq who insisted on being unwilling to compromise. |
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Post by warriorlynx on Apr 1, 2019 15:24:27 GMT -5
The Hard Truth about Bret: Pros: 1. One of the all time greatest "technical" wrestlers and workers (he'd be willing to work in a high school gym if he had to as the top guy) 2. Helped pave the way for Stone Cold Steve Austin Cons: 1. One of the biggest whiners in the business (ie. 4/10, blah blah blah) 2. Idolized himself way too much (house was filled with his posters,pics,trophies etc all over the place it made Scott Hall think he was crazy) 3. Refused to put his own brother Owen over at Wrestlemania X, but was forced to do so 4. Thinks way too highly of his career, when he wasn't a huge draw 5. Refused to drop the WWF title leading to the screwjob (all he had to do was drop it to Shamrock on RAW wtf)
6. Made a lot of things about himself (he was one of the reasons for Diesel to leave in 96) Damn too many cons sorry. I'll stop :E I disagree with almost every con. The guy took himself seriously. I don't see that as a knock when it comes to someone's work. Citing Hall is especially suspect as Hall rarely wanted to put any effort in and would have rathered drinking beer in the back with his buddies, hanging out. I don't recall Bret ever refusing to put Owen over, but in that case it doesn't make a lot of sense for Bret to lose at the start of the night, and then win the title by the end. There's logic to it. I don't think giving an honest opinion about today's stuff is the same as whining. Just because he's not a fan, it doesn't mean he's crying. Also with the screw job Bret had every right to refuse to drop the belt to Shawn. Everyone forgets that Bret had creative control over his character during the final 30 days of his contract. He legally didn't have to drop it. Vince was the one demanding it be dropped to a mess of a man (at the time) Shawn Michaels who also refused to put anyone but his friends over. Bret wasn't even unwilling to drop the belt, just didn't want to do it that night in Canada or to Shawn (Shawn told Bret to his face that he'd never do the honors for Bret after Mania 12). That may have been character assassination and could have effected his drawing power when leaving the WWE. Cant blame a guy for protecting his money. Vince was even on board with coming up with something different. It was the Kliq who insisted on being unwilling to compromise. Bruce Prichard confirmed that Bret didn't want to put Owen over, but I prefer the story of Owen going over it fit so well, the ending of WMX as he stood in the aisle watching the victory celebration of Bret winning the title, the way he can say "I beat you Bret" and that he deserves to be champion, winning KOTR, it was a big push for him that led to their ultimate confrontation at SS94. The whole deal originally was in order to keep Bret happy since he wasn't champion was that one of his brother's would be getting a push. Bret wanted Owen, why decide to bury him at WMX? Bret did have chances to drop the title, like Shamrock or dropping it at a house show match in the States, and yes Shawn was a jacka$$. Besides when did Bret ever like Shawn? Even though he claimed he "would do the job", Shawn used to be the guy who looked up to Bret, but as time went on Bret had to put over Shawn (in the most boring way you can) as the next guy. Eventually two big egos clashed, Bret was back, Shawn didn't want to job to Bret again and he was right it made no sense to do that at WM13 and so he faked his smile lol, and Bret had his issues with Shawn (jealously has to be natural here) and they eventually had a fight. Bret was a politician, like most top guys end up becoming. He played Vince in 96 for more money and got the craziest contract ever, plus it mirrored his own contract problems in early 1992. |
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Post by HandsomeHollywood on Apr 1, 2019 15:33:50 GMT -5
I disagree with almost every con. The guy took himself seriously. I don't see that as a knock when it comes to someone's work. Citing Hall is especially suspect as Hall rarely wanted to put any effort in and would have rathered drinking beer in the back with his buddies, hanging out. I don't recall Bret ever refusing to put Owen over, but in that case it doesn't make a lot of sense for Bret to lose at the start of the night, and then win the title by the end. There's logic to it. I don't think giving an honest opinion about today's stuff is the same as whining. Just because he's not a fan, it doesn't mean he's crying. Also with the screw job Bret had every right to refuse to drop the belt to Shawn. Everyone forgets that Bret had creative control over his character during the final 30 days of his contract. He legally didn't have to drop it. Vince was the one demanding it be dropped to a mess of a man (at the time) Shawn Michaels who also refused to put anyone but his friends over. Bret wasn't even unwilling to drop the belt, just didn't want to do it that night in Canada or to Shawn (Shawn told Bret to his face that he'd never do the honors for Bret after Mania 12). That may have been character assassination and could have effected his drawing power when leaving the WWE. Cant blame a guy for protecting his money. Vince was even on board with coming up with something different. It was the Kliq who insisted on being unwilling to compromise. Bruce Prichard confirmed that Bret didn't want to put Owen over, but I prefer the story of Owen going over it fit so well, the ending of WMX as he stood in the aisle watching the victory celebration of Bret winning the title, the way he can say "I beat you Bret" and that he deserves to be champion, winning KOTR, it was a big push for him that led to their ultimate confrontation at SS94. The whole deal originally was in order to keep Bret happy since he wasn't champion was that one of his brother's would be getting a push. Bret wanted Owen, why decide to bury him at WMX? Bret did have chances to drop the title, like Shamrock or dropping it at a house show match in the States, and yes Shawn was a jacka$$. Besides when did Bret ever like Shawn? Even though he claimed he "would do the job", Shawn used to be the guy who looked up to Bret, but as time went on Bret had to put over Shawn (in the most boring way you can) as the next guy. Eventually two big egos clashed, Bret was back, Shawn didn't want to job to Bret again and he was right it made no sense to do that at WM13 and so he faked his smile lol, and Bret had his issues with Shawn (jealously has to be natural here) and they eventually had a fight. Bret was a politician, like most top guys end up becoming. He played Vince in 96 for more money and got the craziest contract ever, plus it mirrored his own contract problems in early 1992. I agree that Bret could have dropped the belt prior to leaving. He had no issue with it. He just wasn't going to do it for Shawn in Montreal. Vince wanted it on Shawn. House shows or in the States were suggested by Bret too. Not sure I'd put too much stock into what Bruce Prichard says. His show is entertaining but it's in spite of him. Bruce tows the company line and I have no doubt his answers were based on what he thought Vince would like us to believe more than what is true. Prichard is literally always workin'. Bret was to go over Shawn at Mania 13 but I fail to see why that wouldn't make sense. Shawn wasn't drawing, was getting boo'd as a Babyface and was rarely sober. It really shows in his out of ring work in 96. The guy could barely speak. Bret also had no reason to go talk to WCW and let Vince out of his new contract. He did that because Vince asked him to. Then Vince asked him to put over a guy who was in terrible personal shape, a liability and who smugly told Bret that he'd never put him over. I wouldn't want to drop the belt to Shawn either. The difference between the two in 96/97 is that Bret would just say no, instead of faking an injury. Edit: I also agree that Owen winning was the better story. I was moreso saying I don't remember hearing Bret wouldn't put over Owen before. Edit2: you may view the Iron Man match as boring now, but it wasn't then. |
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Post by MKSavage on Apr 1, 2019 15:56:02 GMT -5
Interesting stuff here. I never heard Bret didn't want to put over Owen either, but then again we don't know everything. Seems odd that Bret wouldn't want to put over Owen since he was the one to suggest Owen getting the push in the first place. Also, I never heard that the Bret vs one of his brothers feud was to make Bret happy because he wasn't champion. I always heard that Bruce pitched the idea (or something close to it) to Vince and Vince tried to get Bret on bored but Bret would only do it if the brother he was feuding with was Owen because he felt that the WWF was not using Owen properly and he wanted to help. From what I remember hearing, the reason why Shawn was going to drop the title to Bret at WM13 was to even them up (1-1) for the WWF title with Bret dropping the title back to Shawn later in the year so Shawn could have another run with the belt or drop it to the next guy (which turned out to be Austin), supposedly this was set up in 1996 and Shawn losing his smile changed all this. From what Bret has said in shoot interviews, he liked Shawn when they were both in tag teams and in the IC division. His opinion on Shawn started to change around the mid 90s when the Kliq started politicking and Shawn started being unreasonable and hard to work with. But the main problem between them came in 1997 when it was time for Shawn to return the favor at WM13 and said he had an injury (supposedly hurt his knee and needed surgery) and lost his smile. According to Bret, Shawn returned a month or so later and did a back flip of the top turnbuckle and landed on his legs with no problem, Bret took this as Shawn saying FU to him that he really didn't have an injury, he just didn't want to drop the belt to Bret. Also, there was the Sunny days comment that got him into trouble with his wife. As for Bret being very critical of todays product, that seems to be just about everyone from that era with the exception of a few, even Jake and Ted DiBiase have been critical about todays wrestling.
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Post by HandsomeHollywood on Apr 1, 2019 16:01:22 GMT -5
Interesting stuff here. I never heard Bret didn't want to put over Owen either, but then again we don't know everything. Seems odd that Bret wouldn't want to put over Owen since he was the one to suggest Owen getting the push in the first place. Also, I never heard that the Bret vs one of his brothers feud was to make Bret happy because he wasn't champion. I always heard that Bruce pitched the idea (or something close to it) to Vince and Vince tried to get Bret on bored but Bret would only do it if the brother he was feuding with was Owen because he felt that the WWF was not using Owen properly and he wanted to help. From what I remember hearing, the reason why Shawn was going to drop the title to Bret at WM13 was to even them up (1-1) for the WWF title with Bret dropping the title back to Shawn later in the year so Shawn could have another run with the belt or drop it to the next guy (which turned out to be Austin), supposedly this was set up in 1996 and Shawn losing his smile changed all this. From what Bret has said in shoot interviews, he liked Shawn when they were both in tag teams and in the IC division. His opinion on Shawn started to change around the mid 90s when the Kliq started politicking and Shawn started being unreasonable and hard to work with. But the main problem between them came in 1997 when it was time for Shawn to return the favor at WM13 and said he had an injury (supposedly hurt his knee and needed surgery) and lost his smile. According to Bret, Shawn returned a month or so later and did a back flip of the top turnbuckle and landed on his legs with no problem, Bret took this as Shawn saying FU to him that he really didn't have an injury, he just didn't want to drop the belt to Bret. Also, there was the Sunny days comment that got him into trouble with his wife. As for Bret being very critical of todays product, that seems to be just about everyone from that era with the exception of a few, even Jake and Ted DiBiase have been critical about todays wrestling. Pretty much how I remember everything too. The Sunny Days comment is endlessly infuriating to me as an adult, considering Shawn was the one having an affair with Sunny. If someone I worked with pulled this crap all the time with no consequences I'd get pretty fed up too. In regards to Shawn's knee injury, I'm pretty sure Jim Cornette has gone on record to say he saw Shawn running and skipping up and down stairs like it was nothing shortly after the announcement. |
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Apr 1, 2019 16:33:41 GMT -5
I have a hard time believing Bret didn't want to put Owen over at WrestleMania X.
Even at age 13, I knew Owen would beat Bret that night.
Bruce Prichard even admits he did a lot of drugs in the past, so I don't take a lot of what he says as the gospel. I think Bruce Prichard likes to hear Bruce Prichard talk.
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jason1980s
Main Eventer
Joined on: Sept 30, 2009 14:58:56 GMT -5
Posts: 2,335
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Post by jason1980s on Apr 1, 2019 18:00:55 GMT -5
He was a role model in being a model employee for many years. Anyone who starts at the very bottom of their workplace and works harder than anyone or the hardest of employees to make it should respect him as their role model. His heritage didn't hold the weight then as it did now (since WWE can market DVDs and more around dynasty's) so he was given nothing based on his family and worked harder than a lot of other guys to prove that he was one of the best.
He gave a great promo based on what he had for charisma and based on the true passion he had in believing every fight was real. Like Jake the Snake, he didn't have to be the loudest or the most outlandish, he just had to speak from his mind or his heart, as Bret often did.
As for bitterness, I think sometimes it's misplaced on the 1997 time period when much more should be placed on Owen's accident. But he probably see it as an accident rather than a series of planned events to hurt him, as done by Shawn Michaels and Vince McMahon but he has well moved past that. When a shoot interviewer needs the dirt, he gives the dirt about Montreal and his feelings and some see this as bitterness. If he's bitter about Goldberg, which I think he's move past, he probably should be. Goldberg was not a guy who should be doing superkicks. His whole gimmick was just go through a guy and beat him in two minutes. But I guess when facing actual competition, he needs more moves in repertoires. If Bill wanted to do the move, he should have worked on it a lot in advance, maybe even train with Bret. Bill, I believe is a good guy and was humble in how over he became so quickly and I think Bret understands it was an accident.
Bret lost a lot because of wrestling. Maybe not the amount of tragedies as the Von Erich's but still, a lot. I would honestly probably be a lot more bitter over even a small amount of stuff Bret has gone through and I think, even though not totally any one in particular's fault, a lot of the tragedy stems from the 1997 time period.
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Post by Glorydaysofwrestling on Apr 1, 2019 18:21:17 GMT -5
Love um. Was my favorite from 92-97 and the Hart Foundation was my favorite team as a kid.
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Post by LK3 on Apr 1, 2019 18:21:56 GMT -5
4/10
April Fool's.....
1/10
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Post by Nivro™ on Apr 1, 2019 18:33:08 GMT -5
I liked Bret growing up and I got to meet him last year and he's a super nice guy. However, I did lose respect for him when he would trash other wrestlers for no reason. The biggest complaint is when he would throw people under the bus like Flair saying "oh he wrestled the same match & save moves every night" Like we didnt see the same Bret spots of chest first in turnbuckle, russian leg sweep, middle rope elbow spots in every single Bret match.
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TheEvilDoink1987
Main Eventer
Joined on: Feb 22, 2010 21:37:52 GMT -5
Posts: 2,819
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Post by TheEvilDoink1987 on Apr 1, 2019 18:39:08 GMT -5
I love Bret.
My favorite wrestler of all-time.
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Post by MKSavage on Apr 1, 2019 18:52:31 GMT -5
I liked Bret growing up and I got to meet him last year and he's a super nice guy. However, I did lose respect for him when he would trash other wrestlers for no reason. The biggest complaint is when he would throw people under the bus like Flair saying "oh he wrestled the same match & save moves every night" Like we didnt see the same Bret spots of chest first in turnbuckle, russian leg sweep, middle rope elbow spots in every single Bret match. To be fair, I think Bret's criticism of Flair came after Flair ripped Bret's career in his book. |
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