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Post by HandsomeHollywood on Apr 1, 2019 19:13:12 GMT -5
I honestly could talk about Bret Hart all day. He's one of the few guys who regularly elevated his opponents. The older I get, the more I find Bret to be the pinnacle of professional wrestling, for me.
The whole story about Bret leaving after Mania 12 until after the summer, from then on until the screwjob is some of the best wrestling storytelling I've ever seen. I'm not sure anything can top it for me.
The via satellite interview between Bret and Austin in 1996 is great shit. Hart was the perfect foil for Austin and vice versa.
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Papi Joker
Main Eventer
INTERNATIONAL COLLECTORS LIVES MATTER
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Post by Papi Joker on Apr 1, 2019 19:16:49 GMT -5
Bruce Prichard confirmed that Bret didn't want to put Owen over, but I prefer the story of Owen going over it fit so well, the ending of WMX as he stood in the aisle watching the victory celebration of Bret winning the title, the way he can say "I beat you Bret" and that he deserves to be champion, winning KOTR, it was a big push for him that led to their ultimate confrontation at SS94. The whole deal originally was in order to keep Bret happy since he wasn't champion was that one of his brother's would be getting a push. Bret wanted Owen, why decide to bury him at WMX? Bret did have chances to drop the title, like Shamrock or dropping it at a house show match in the States, and yes Shawn was a jacka$$. Besides when did Bret ever like Shawn? Even though he claimed he "would do the job", Shawn used to be the guy who looked up to Bret, but as time went on Bret had to put over Shawn (in the most boring way you can) as the next guy. Eventually two big egos clashed, Bret was back, Shawn didn't want to job to Bret again and he was right it made no sense to do that at WM13 and so he faked his smile lol, and Bret had his issues with Shawn (jealously has to be natural here) and they eventually had a fight. Bret was a politician, like most top guys end up becoming. He played Vince in 96 for more money and got the craziest contract ever, plus it mirrored his own contract problems in early 1992. I agree that Bret could have dropped the belt prior to leaving. He had no issue with it. He just wasn't going to do it for Shawn in Montreal. Vince wanted it on Shawn. House shows or in the States were suggested by Bret too. Not sure I'd put too much stock into what Bruce Prichard says. His show is entertaining but it's in spite of him. Bruce tows the company line and I have no doubt his answers were based on what he thought Vince would like us to believe more than what is true. Prichard is literally always workin'. Bret was to go over Shawn at Mania 13 but I fail to see why that wouldn't make sense. Shawn wasn't drawing, was getting boo'd as a Babyface and was rarely sober. It really shows in his out of ring work in 96. The guy could barely speak. Bret also had no reason to go talk to WCW and let Vince out of his new contract. He did that because Vince asked him to. Then Vince asked him to put over a guy who was in terrible personal shape, a liability and who smugly told Bret that he'd never put him over. I wouldn't want to drop the belt to Shawn either. The difference between the two in 96/97 is that Bret would just say no, instead of faking an injury. Edit: I also agree that Owen winning was the better story. I was moreso saying I don't remember hearing Bret wouldn't put over Owen before. Edit2: you may view the Iron Man match as boring now, but it wasn't then. thank you! very well said and backed up with FACTS I guarantee you everyone who says "he was a whiner!" would whine twice as hard if they were in the same situation, wtf wouldn't be pissed years later if your boss picked a disgrace of a man (at the time) instead of your hard working/loyal arse! I believe HBK's born again Christian is a gimmick - and the only way the public would 'forgive' and accept him again, a real Christian would not have a tag team match with God and let his boss disrespect a church and his name (even for entertainment) nor would he side with a man who also calls himself the King of Kings! The reason why he gets more praise than Hitman is because he took the hit of the screwjob - after the curtain call! so in essence, he did the 2 WORST things you could have done in the business... IMO Bret Hart is a modern way of telling THE MEN (those who grew up in the 80's-90's) from the boys (current teenagers). Also for more reference see TOM MCGEE #DeathBeforeDishonour |
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Post by HandsomeHollywood on Apr 1, 2019 19:32:43 GMT -5
I agree that Bret could have dropped the belt prior to leaving. He had no issue with it. He just wasn't going to do it for Shawn in Montreal. Vince wanted it on Shawn. House shows or in the States were suggested by Bret too. Not sure I'd put too much stock into what Bruce Prichard says. His show is entertaining but it's in spite of him. Bruce tows the company line and I have no doubt his answers were based on what he thought Vince would like us to believe more than what is true. Prichard is literally always workin'. Bret was to go over Shawn at Mania 13 but I fail to see why that wouldn't make sense. Shawn wasn't drawing, was getting boo'd as a Babyface and was rarely sober. It really shows in his out of ring work in 96. The guy could barely speak. Bret also had no reason to go talk to WCW and let Vince out of his new contract. He did that because Vince asked him to. Then Vince asked him to put over a guy who was in terrible personal shape, a liability and who smugly told Bret that he'd never put him over. I wouldn't want to drop the belt to Shawn either. The difference between the two in 96/97 is that Bret would just say no, instead of faking an injury. Edit: I also agree that Owen winning was the better story. I was moreso saying I don't remember hearing Bret wouldn't put over Owen before. Edit2: you may view the Iron Man match as boring now, but it wasn't then. thank you! very well said and backed up with FACTS I guarantee you everyone who says "he was a whiner!" would whine twice as hard if they were in the same situation, wtf wouldn't be pissed years later if your boss picked a disgrace of a man (at the time) instead of your hard working/loyal arse! I believe HBK's born again Christian is a gimmick - and the only way the public would 'forgive' and accept him again, a real Christian would not have a tag team match with God and let his boss disrespect a church and his name (even for entertainment) nor would he side with a man who also calls himself the King of Kings! The reason why he gets more praise than Hitman is because he took the hit of the screwjob - after the curtain call! so in essence, he did the 2 WORST things you could have done in the business... IMO Bret Hart is a modern way of telling THE MEN (those who grew up in the 80's-90's) from the boys (current teenagers). Also for more reference see TOM MCGEE #DeathBeforeDishonour I'll never understand Vince's love of Shawn Michaels in the mid-late 90s. The guy was being presented in such a strange way. A babyface who threatened you with his emotions. Acted like an bunghole and tried to babyface spin it as just being honest (a trait I hate IRL). Why you'd want to put the belt on someone who throws tantrums in the ring, mid-match is beyond me. I will never take anything away from Shawn Michaels' in-ring ability, but if you go back to 1996 or 1997 when Shawn is "injured", Vince put him on tv all the time anyway. Constant via satellite interviews, in-ring interviews and putting him on commentary was hard to take. He could barely speak or stand without swaying. It's pathetic. I honestly think that Vince thought Michaels and his friends were the cool kids that he wanted to get in with. I can't explain it any other way. |
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The Dave
Main Eventer
Con-Chair-Tos all around!
Joined on: Feb 2, 2008 15:29:11 GMT -5
Posts: 3,480
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Post by The Dave on Apr 2, 2019 5:57:51 GMT -5
If you put the letter "S" in front of Hitman, you have my exact opinion of Bret Hart.
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Post by hbkjason on Apr 2, 2019 6:12:16 GMT -5
I know we all like different wrestlers, but I am surprised at so many people do not like Bret Hart!
As far as the whole "doing the job" thing goes at Survivor Series I cannot believe that anyone takes HBK's side in that argument. As much as I love him, he is a guy that surely had to have forfeited more titles than anyone else in history and he was offended that someone would not do the job for him?
I really do consider Bret Hart as one of the all time greats and I think you could have put him in the ring with anyone and he would have made it work.
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Post by Hulkster2001 on Apr 2, 2019 7:05:22 GMT -5
I guarantee you everyone who says "he was a whiner!" would whine twice as hard if they were in the same situation, wtf wouldn't be pissed years later if your boss picked a disgrace of a man (at the time) instead of your hard working/loyal arse! Maybe back when it happened but not now like Bret is. Seriously the guy can’t let things go |
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Post by K5 on Apr 2, 2019 8:40:35 GMT -5
I guarantee you everyone who says "he was a whiner!" would whine twice as hard if they were in the same situation, wtf wouldn't be pissed years later if your boss picked a disgrace of a man (at the time) instead of your hard working/loyal arse! Maybe back when it happened but not now like Bret is. Seriously the guy can’t let things go dude lost family members...his own family was torn up from the inside...his longtime boss screwed him over...he was tossed to the wolves in wcw...kicked in the head by Goldberg. and now he has to deal with a bunch of people telling him he’s bitter...it’s ridiculous. half of that craphappens to most people they’d be dead. he’s entitled to his bitterness. |
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Post by MKSavage on Apr 2, 2019 8:43:25 GMT -5
I guarantee you everyone who says "he was a whiner!" would whine twice as hard if they were in the same situation, wtf wouldn't be pissed years later if your boss picked a disgrace of a man (at the time) instead of your hard working/loyal arse! Maybe back when it happened but not now like Bret is. Seriously the guy can’t let things go I think he has let the "screw job" go, I don't think he would have went back to the WWE and/or did that rivalries DVD w/ Shawn if he was still pissed about it. I think he just gets asked about it in every interview so he answers the questions with how he felt which makes it look like he still cares about it. |
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Post by Nivro™ on Apr 2, 2019 11:39:30 GMT -5
Bret has no reason to be mad or bitter over Montreal. His boss asked him to do a job, he refused. In any other world that gets you fired. He was already on his way out the door. Vince didnt owe him anything. He was asked, he refused, Vince protected his assets.
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Post by MKSavage on Apr 2, 2019 12:50:06 GMT -5
Bret has no reason to be mad or bitter over Montreal. His boss asked him to do a job, he refused. In any other world that gets you fired. He was already on his way out the door. Vince didnt owe him anything. He was asked, he refused, Vince protected his assets. Not necessarily. Bret did have in his contract, from Vince, total control of his last 30 days in the company. He had the right, legally speaking, to decide how he wanted to go out. Funny thing is, the way the screw job worked out, all parties were benefited. Vince became the ultimate heel to his rising star Steve Austin, Shawn Michaels looked like a bad guy in the situation so that worked out okay for him since he was a bad guy on screen at the time. And for Bret, he got sympathy from the fans which could have helped him get a new start in WCW. However, WCW seemed to not know what to do with him so his career floundered. If I were WCW, I would have kept pointing out the fact that WWF screwed Bret because they didn't think anyone on the roster could have taken the belt from him legitimately, which could have made him appear to be a strong challenger to the NWO. |
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Post by K5 on Apr 2, 2019 15:39:24 GMT -5
Bret has no reason to be mad or bitter over Montreal. His boss asked him to do a job, he refused. In any other world that gets you fired. He was already on his way out the door. Vince didnt owe him anything. He was asked, he refused, Vince protected his assets. unless your contract specifically states that you have creative direction of your character. only reason bret couldn't have sued vince (and won) is that he proceeded to punch him backstage. |
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jason1980s
Main Eventer
Joined on: Sept 30, 2009 14:58:56 GMT -5
Posts: 2,335
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Post by jason1980s on Apr 2, 2019 16:30:18 GMT -5
I always wish that wrestling had been a TV series that ended the night of Canadian Stampede. What a celebration that was with all the Hart members. It was probably the last time they were all together like that without there being unfortunate circumstances.
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Papi Joker
Main Eventer
INTERNATIONAL COLLECTORS LIVES MATTER
Joined on: Feb 23, 2016 23:56:30 GMT -5
Posts: 1,604
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Post by Papi Joker on Apr 2, 2019 17:08:58 GMT -5
unless you have read his book and watched Wrestling With Shadows (and doing it so in an unbiased way) you cannot understand:
- Montreal Screwjob seriousness
- His caliber
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Deleted
Joined on: Nov 29, 2024 0:29:30 GMT -5
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2019 21:30:22 GMT -5
Legend for sure! his style is kinda repetitive, but fun and he can mix it up all ways too. but i do have some issues with him as well.
loved him most as tag team with neidhart. esp as heels with jimmy. but loved them winning belts vs demo at summerslam tho too. loved when he 1st turned good vs bad news brown. liked him as an IC champ, but didnt like him beating piper. also didnt like him being the one to beat flair for the belt. according to wrestling observer bret kinda whined and cried alot to get his way. along with shawn micheals. mr perfect was promised 1 or more the wwf title, IC title and/or KOTR and bret/shawn going to vince got perfect screwed out of all 3. thats my biggest beef with bret/shawn, but other than that i love them. bret kinda was the new genration, when i think of wwf new generation i kinda think of bret and his music and those glasses and the leather jacket and wwf belt. he was fun in 97 with the canada vs US angle too.
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budbundy
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Apr 2, 2019 22:30:55 GMT -5
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Post by budbundy on Apr 3, 2019 13:02:03 GMT -5
I love Bret. I loved how he excellently executed his opponents with his five moves of doom. I will always enjoy a Bret Hart match.
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Post by warriorlynx on Apr 7, 2019 11:06:06 GMT -5
I'm going to say it, he didn't tackle Bret, Bret tackled Bret  |
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Post by The Sexy Psychotic on Apr 7, 2019 16:50:31 GMT -5
Bret is one of the greatest ever, and if you dont think so you're simply delusional.
His wrestling speaks for itself, his character evolution always made sense and was even ahead of it's time or even ended up working even better than intended, and by 96/97 he was gold on the mic too.
I think alot of the negativity for him comes from the company making it that way; he's essentially been pushed to the side in favour of Michaels which is funny because they basically had the same career until HBK came back.
Bret has every right to be bitter, the company themselves should be more accommodating and more supporting and supportive. He's been through hell and he's not getting younger; they should be making the most of Bret, they should be pushing how important he really was and is.
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Post by Glorydaysofwrestling on Apr 7, 2019 21:44:27 GMT -5
Bret will always be the 🐐
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The Golden Gimmick
Mid-Carder
...but brother, I am bad. And they know I’m bad.
Joined on: Jul 25, 2003 22:13:48 GMT -5
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Post by The Golden Gimmick on Apr 9, 2019 15:15:03 GMT -5
For what it's worth, Bret never got the nepotism scold that some talent does now, like Charlotte Flair, but he was definitely a product of that. He got world class training from his father, and was made a regional star in his family's promotion even before going to the WWF, which gave him all the pull he needed at the time.
His in-ring work is only rivaled by a handful of people, and his psychology is a lost art. His promo was probably the weakest attribute though, along with his giant ego. The screwjob could've been avoided completely, but that's business. Bret's own father would've done the same thing to a talent in Stampede had they put up a similar fit.
That being said, he's one of my top 5 favorites of all time and it was a shame his career had to end the way it did.
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Papi Joker
Main Eventer
INTERNATIONAL COLLECTORS LIVES MATTER
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Post by Papi Joker on Apr 9, 2019 18:59:16 GMT -5
I sincerely do not think Stu would have said "under this legal contract I agree that you can do WHATEVER YOU WANT with/without title belts in my company." then go and break the law....
the whole problem really was Bischoff and what he did with Madusa and her belt earlier - which justifies Vince's fear (as anyone would feel the same).
HOWEVER - if anyone had issues of dishonour, rebellion and disrespect as a pro - IT WAS NOT BRET HART... therefore Vince had no past history with him nor reasons to screw him...
Check out the HOF video of Hitman getting attacked, pay attention to all the people who RUN to defend and protect him - says a lot...
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