elrey82
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Post by elrey82 on Sept 18, 2019 11:10:32 GMT -5
2 down 5 to go. Finally got 2 out of the 7 retros I ordered from Amazon. The packaging is not good so if you plan on keeping these MOC Amazon is not the place. The price is right though
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Post by showbizpizzabear81 on Sept 18, 2019 11:56:35 GMT -5
On reflection I really think Mattel dropped the ball on these and they did so since series 1. Besides Warrior, I do think S1 (and S2) were all really well designed despite being some wrong character or attire choices. But, distribution was even messed up back with S1 because of the non-senseical case breakdowns. When they finally added Warrior and Taker to cases, they chose to put 3 of the horrible looking warriors and just 2 takers per set despite anyone with half a brain should have known taker would be wanted way more than that warrior. And also putting 2 Cenas per case too in those cases. I swear, if Walmart hadn't clearance them, we'd still see Warriors and Cenas sitting in stores. Yeah, and now those two bastards are costing around that $20 mark loose on Ebay lol
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Post by Prophet of Ash on Sept 18, 2019 12:00:26 GMT -5
when they got Mabel for Elites, it's insane that they didn't get a Retro tied to the same contract for the same release. That'd be a #1 release behind Diesel. Was anyone pining for an Elias? Or Sheamus? I can see Cena, I have a Cena despite not watching the current product. But 2 Kevin Owens? so close together?? I have one of them, as a fan of his indie stuff, but this is a niche market and current guys make it even more niche.
Mattel dropped the ball on what could've been the key market for online collectors. These should've been 4 per year in store, 4 per year online exclusive, and don't flood the markets, while at the same time getting them to who wants them
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Post by therealworldchampion on Sept 18, 2019 12:59:41 GMT -5
when they got Mabel for Elites, it's insane that they didn't get a Retro tied to the same contract for the same release. That'd be a #1 release behind Diesel. Was anyone pining for an Elias? Or Sheamus? I can see Cena, I have a Cena despite not watching the current product. But 2 Kevin Owens? so close together?? I have one of them, as a fan of his indie stuff, but this is a niche market and current guys make it even more niche. Mattel dropped the ball on what could've been the key market for online collectors. These should've been 4 per year in store, 4 per year online exclusive, and don't flood the markets, while at the same time getting them to who wants them Sting abd Owens replaced Enzo and Cass
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Post by Prophet of Ash on Sept 18, 2019 14:33:21 GMT -5
when they got Mabel for Elites, it's insane that they didn't get a Retro tied to the same contract for the same release. That'd be a #1 release behind Diesel. Was anyone pining for an Elias? Or Sheamus? I can see Cena, I have a Cena despite not watching the current product. But 2 Kevin Owens? so close together?? I have one of them, as a fan of his indie stuff, but this is a niche market and current guys make it even more niche. Mattel dropped the ball on what could've been the key market for online collectors. These should've been 4 per year in store, 4 per year online exclusive, and don't flood the markets, while at the same time getting them to who wants them Sting abd Owens replaced Enzo and Cass but why did ANYTHING replace them? who decided Enzo & Cass needed retros in the first place, and why couldn't they have shipped a smaller assortment? red Sting and repaint Owens are high on the list for a finger point for the downfall of this line. Flair could've been heavier packed, or a popular series 3 could've been slipped in instead of repaint Owens.
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Post by therealworldchampion on Sept 18, 2019 15:03:10 GMT -5
Sting abd Owens replaced Enzo and Cass but why did ANYTHING replace them? who decided Enzo & Cass needed retros in the first place, and why couldn't they have shipped a smaller assortment? red Sting and repaint Owens are high on the list for a finger point for the downfall of this line. Flair could've been heavier packed, or a popular series 3 could've been slipped in instead of repaint Owens. For like 20 seconds Enzo and Cass were the hottest thing. They could've released that Neville or Ryback I agree
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Post by MKSavage on Sept 18, 2019 16:01:14 GMT -5
They varied. Series breakdown: 1 = 12 2 = 15 (would have been 16 if R&B Hammer came out) 3 = 16 (could be 12, some consider the Nasty Boys and LOD as Series 4) 4 = 4 (could be 8, some consider the Nasty Boys and LOD in this series) 5 = 10 6 = 6 7 = 6 8 = 6 9 = 6 10 = 8 (10 if you count the series 7 re-releases of Shawn and Razor that came on the series 10 blue card) 11 = 7
The way the series' are broken down above is the best known way of separating the figures, some say there were more series and some say there were less. For instance, what we consider Series 1 (12 figures) was released in two waves (6 figures arrived on shelves first then a little while later the next 6 figures arrived on shelves), so some consider Series 1 to be Series 1 (first 6 figures) and Series 2 (the next six figures). Same thing happened with Series 3 and 4. Though, LOD, the Nasty Boys, and the Big Boss Man are all considered Series 3 (mainly because they are all listed on the back of the card with the other figures from that Series) however they didn't hit stores until about the same time that Series 4 started hitting stores, so some consider those figures to be a part of Series 4 instead of Series 3. In the WWF magazine that showed Series 5, 6, and 7 (Undertakem' All photo), it kind of listed them as the same series (1993) but they were released in waves (series 5 were released at the same time, series 6 were released at the same time, and series 7 were released at the same time) making it look like three different series instead of 1. Perfect breakdown, sorry I missed this before my previous reply. But, just to add to your painstaking detail, Series 2 was also split into 2 assortments and Bossman, Jake, Brutus (and possibly Rude according to catalog images) were repacked into those sets. ( believe Rude or maybe Dusty was replaced by Honky Tonk Man in later shipments and Hogan #1 got repacked into some of those shipments too at least later on after Dusty was removed. And now that I think of it, they must have shipped some complete cases of Honky too at some point. When I found him for the first time at a Kmart, he was the only figure on the peg, and it was loaded with just him. Series 3 also had Series 2 repacks to flush out to 6 per assortment (mainly Duggan and Piper I think) Thanks. I believe Rude was on the card backs of some of the Series 2 figures then his figure sketch was replaced with Honky Tonk Man's. I remember seeing Rude on some then Honky on others in the spot that Rude occupied. On reflection I really think Mattel dropped the ball on these and they did so since series 1. The Warrior release was a massive misstep, they reapropriated the green Hasbro attire despite ALL of the iconic attires Warrior has worn, and the mold was absolutely horrendous. The 2nd series was the best overall, but the fact they concentrated on the Attitude Era was odd, considering it was the Golden and New Gen eras that this line was made for. Surfer Sting, Brown Mankind, The RingMaster (or Stunning Steve), Rocky Maiavia and Hunter Hearst Helmsley would have been far more in keeping with Hasbro's lineage. Everything after Series 3 has been an absolute disaster. Focusing on modern characters nobody cared about, poor distribution Sadly, Diesel included. As the face/hair objectively did not look like him. By the end of this line I think the only real success was the Purple gloved Undertaker. Yeah, I liked the homage to the Hasbro line but they really don't compare well. Warrior was a huge disappointment, they should have went with another attire that Hasbro didn't release like what they did with taker (probably the best figure in the entire line, though the Kane figure was great too). Also, did they just use the Cena upper torso mold, it looks like Cena's arm band that was molded in the figure was also on Warrior's. You're right, Series 2 was definitely the best line with them focusing only on legends and not current stars (Sting and HHH excluded since the figures were late 90s looks). It would be cool if they did one more set and released all the guys that were known to almost get released by hasbro but didn't; Tugboat, H.F. Anvil, USA Lex, R&B Hammer, MM Brutus, Men on a Mission, Booger, Jarrett, face Doink, etc. At least let the people interested in this line finish their holes from the hasbro collection. Though, if a guy can dream, it would be great if Hasbro could pick up the line for just these types of figures and release them with the same style and look they were supposed to get.
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RedDevil
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Post by RedDevil on Sept 18, 2019 16:23:21 GMT -5
I wonder with S7 when Walmart decided to pick up the line again, they looked at how much stock they sold of S1 and S2, and decided to order that. Not really being smart enough to know that with them available at Target and online retailers, they would only probably sell a fraction of what they had done when Walmart was the only option of buying them. It's really just a shame that S3 and S7 were so overstocked by retailers. If they hadn't sat, I think the line would have kept moving just fine. Whenever the in between sets like 4, 5, 6, 8 have showed up, they've sold fast. That's an interesting idea, I'd not considered that. I had the impression that Walmart had ordered more after the strong initial sales of series 7, but your idea makes more sense. But as we know, "sense" doesn't really come into the distribution of this line. I agree that the overstock has likely been fatal here (barring a relaunch) - you'd think that the plan must always have been to progress through the waves in stores but a general store like Walmart or Target seemingly don't pay enough attention to what they are stocking compared to what is available for them to order from Mattel. On reflection I really think Mattel dropped the ball on these and they did so since series 1. The Warrior release was a massive misstep, they reapropriated the green Hasbro attire despite ALL of the iconic attires Warrior has worn, and the mold was absolutely horrendous. The 2nd series was the best overall, but the fact they concentrated on the Attitude Era was odd, considering it was the Golden and New Gen eras that this line was made for. Surfer Sting, Brown Mankind, The RingMaster (or Stunning Steve), Rocky Maiavia and Hunter Hearst Helmsley would have been far more in keeping with Hasbro's lineage. I was surprised when Hawkins and Ryder were asked for their best and worst Retros that they were so warm about the Warrior - for me he was a definite for the least favourite list, and Brock first on my the list for the best as that felt like such a Hasbro-like figure, but obviously they were asked for their lists so it doesn't matter what I think; I'm just surprised as I say. I just don't like figures with split torsos, whether it's Retros or Ultimates or whatever, but I did warm to the action when it appeared with Sheik and JYD, so maybe a different outfit choice would've helped me appreciate the Warrior figure, I don't know. I was thinking about which figures I wanted from Hasbro for the next few series if things had continued when I was 10 in 1995 - obviously that would've been for the line going forward, so I wasn't thinking about a Hart Foundation Anvil, R&B Greg, Haku, Beverly Brothers or whatever; it would've been the guys who were current at the time. Excluding the green card debuts (since I didn't know that series existed until like 1997), then I think my expectations for the next few series of Hasbros would've included guys like: - Diesel
- King of Harts Owen Hart
- Jim Neidhart (mid-90s heel, anvil in place of heart on his top)
- British Bulldog (unbraided in shorts)
- Jerry Lawler (was already overdue by that time)
- Bob Backland
- Men On a Mission, or at least Mabel
- Purple Undertaker
- USA Lex
- Jeff Jarrett
- Bob Holly
- King Kong Bundy
- Kama
- Henry Godwinn
- Hunter Hearst-Helmsley
- Wildman Marc Mero
From those I think only Owen, Godwinn, Mero and Bundy are unavailable to Mattel (maybe Mo, I don't know the situation there, nor with Jarrett). We only got Diesel and Taker from the Retros. The following year I'd have added to the list Goldust, Mankind, heel Bulldog and Vader - the Retros gave us the first one and he was excellent, a later version of the second and he was excellent as well, but not the other two who Mattel have available to them. I'm not say Mattel should make all of those, but basically just a reminder how much more Mattel could do with the line on just the era where the Hasbro line ended, never mind the Golden Era and Attitude Era, which I also support being in the line. And that's without including new versions of Bret, HBK or Razor Ramon.
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alphadeltaxray
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Post by alphadeltaxray on Sept 18, 2019 21:30:57 GMT -5
I totally agree about Brock being the closest to a Hasbro figure. In fact, I've always thought that and am surprised to see someone else feels that way. Brock is the only retro figure I have a loose version of because it's just so nostalgic to hold it.
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alphadeltaxray
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Post by alphadeltaxray on Sept 18, 2019 21:35:43 GMT -5
Sting abd Owens replaced Enzo and Cass but why did ANYTHING replace them? who decided Enzo & Cass needed retros in the first place, and why couldn't they have shipped a smaller assortment? red Sting and repaint Owens are high on the list for a finger point for the downfall of this line. Flair could've been heavier packed, or a popular series 3 could've been slipped in instead of repaint Owens. Red Sting is one of my favorite retros, but only because, well, it's Sting. But I agree that it was far too similar to the series 2 Sting. Its should have been a Surfer Sting with a different body mold. I was always stumped as to why they did the Series 4 KO. So many other options there, even a repainted Warrior or undertaker would have sufficed in my opinion.
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alphadeltaxray
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Post by alphadeltaxray on Sept 18, 2019 21:45:16 GMT -5
I think we all agree that distribution was one of the main killers of this line. But who's fault was it, really? Mattel's or Walmart/Target? I've seen so many on here blame both sides, but does anyone really know for sure? It seems like it could go either way: Walmart doesn't have a clue and orders 8 cases of series 7 just because, or maybe Mattel forces it down Walmarts throat, promising they will be a mega hit.
That said, what's going to happen when/if they reboot this line? Who's to say that we won't get bombarded with series 1 (or 11 or whatever they plan on doing)? If WM is to blame then I dont see anyone at Mattel telling them to ease up on how many cases they order. And if it's Mattel to blame then after the series 7 overload fiasco who's to say that Walmart would even order any more at all?
This reminds me of collecting baseball cards back in the early 90's. Companies like Topps, Donruss, and Fleer took full advantage of the fad and mass produced so many cards that even to this day you can buy an unopened box of cards for under $5. But then again, Roman Reigns series 1 went from $2.50 on clearance to $200 moc in under 2 years. Maybe that'll happen with HBK or Jericho (lol).
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RedDevil
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Post by RedDevil on Sept 19, 2019 8:54:05 GMT -5
I totally agree about Brock being the closest to a Hasbro figure. In fact, I've always thought that and am surprised to see someone else feels that way. Brock is the only retro figure I have a loose version of because it's just so nostalgic to hold it. Yeah I'm surprised he doesn't appear more in lists of people's favourites that have been floating around since the Retros news out of SDCC. Maybe it's because he was in the first series and the line has been through so much since then that people forget him, I don't know. Roman also is an excellent figure I think, my only concern was that the punching arm looked too long in terms of proportions, but otherwise that's another I have in my top Retros. Owens also I think is objectively a great figure from the line, so combined with Taker then series 1 was off to a good start despite me not liking the split torso action of Warrior and Cena. I think we all agree that distribution was one of the main killers of this line. But who's fault was it, really? Mattel's or Walmart/Target? I've seen so many on here blame both sides, but does anyone really know for sure? It seems like it could go either way: Walmart doesn't have a clue and orders 8 cases of series 7 just because, or maybe Mattel forces it down Walmarts throat, promising they will be a mega hit. That said, what's going to happen when/if they reboot this line? Who's to say that we won't get bombarded with series 1 (or 11 or whatever they plan on doing)? If WM is to blame then I dont see anyone at Mattel telling them to ease up on how many cases they order. And if it's Mattel to blame then after the series 7 overload fiasco who's to say that Walmart would even order any more at all? This reminds me of collecting baseball cards back in the early 90's. Companies like Topps, Donruss, and Fleer took full advantage of the fad and mass produced so many cards that even to this day you can buy an unopened box of cards for under $5. But then again, Roman Reigns series 1 went from $2.50 on clearance to $200 moc in under 2 years. Maybe that'll happen with HBK or Jericho (lol). This week's Major podcast has reported from Corporate Steve confirmation that Walmart aren't going to be stocking series 9 and 10 (and I'd guess 8 for the stores that didn't get them already), and it's not looking good for Target taking them either - which won't surprise anyone here, but if the stores are formally rejecting already produced sets then I can't see them being up for series 11, even after a year-off or whatever. My understanding is that Mattel basically have to do what Walmart/Target ask for (certainly in the post-TRU world), so if they want more of series 7 rather than series 8 then Mattel have to supply, but it still doesn't make much sense. Mattel must know how many they have produced in their factories, how many have been shipped to the Walmart and Target distribution centres - after that I guess they don't have much control over what they do with them. So with the very little we know about the situation then I'd think the blame lays with Walmart and Target, but the situation must be much more complicated than that. As much damage as the treatment of Walmart and Target have done to the Retros in the US market, I'd fear without them that the hope for a relaunch would be next to impossible. But I don't know. Folks here have been calling for them to be made online exclusives, which would be ideal but I'm not sure that could generate enough to support a whole line: Amazon and/or Ringside in the US, Wrestling Shop and/or Toys and Masks in the UK, and any sites in other countries in Europe (I know there's one in Germany) or Australia that carry the figures; maybe TRU in Canada would be a possible "in the wild" option I guess - could something be worked-out from that? Or if Mattel brought in some element of that Matty Collector thing they apparently had before the Retros started to sell direct to us? I don't know how many avenues are actually viable without the two US high street chains.
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drnickriviera995
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Post by drnickriviera995 on Sept 21, 2019 8:49:10 GMT -5
So, one of my Target's finally stocked Retro 8. Just had a Ryder and Braun left, so with the sale decided to grab them. First retros I've seen stocked in at least 3 months around here. But I suppose S8 could have shown up and sold out at some point when I happened to not catch them. Proves that these do sell well as long as you're not overstocking on one particular set.
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Post by Thought Collector on Sept 21, 2019 9:45:02 GMT -5
but why did ANYTHING replace them? who decided Enzo & Cass needed retros in the first place, and why couldn't they have shipped a smaller assortment? red Sting and repaint Owens are high on the list for a finger point for the downfall of this line. Flair could've been heavier packed, or a popular series 3 could've been slipped in instead of repaint Owens. Red Sting is one of my favorite retros, but only because, well, it's Sting. But I agree that it was far too similar to the series 2 Sting. Its should have been a Surfer Sting with a different body mold. I was always stumped as to why they did the Series 4 KO. So many other options there, even a repainted Warrior or undertaker would have sufficed in my opinion. Yeah, that really bummed me out with the Owens re-release since I really wanted a grey repaint of Undertaker to go with the purple. I know I've got the classic Hasbro one, but I never liked him having the clothesline mold/action. The Mattel version is what I was hoping for as a kid...I guess Owens was probably the easiest, laziest repaint for them since you only have to change his t shirt logo. lol But still not much of an excuse since grey repaint Undertaker isn't exactly more difficult than that. lol
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RedDevil
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Post by RedDevil on Sept 21, 2019 18:43:53 GMT -5
Red Sting is one of my favorite retros, but only because, well, it's Sting. But I agree that it was far too similar to the series 2 Sting. Its should have been a Surfer Sting with a different body mold. I was always stumped as to why they did the Series 4 KO. So many other options there, even a repainted Warrior or undertaker would have sufficed in my opinion. Yeah, that really bummed me out with the Owens re-release since I really wanted a grey repaint of Undertaker to go with the purple. I know I've got the classic Hasbro one, but I never liked him having the clothesline mold/action. The Mattel version is what I was hoping for as a kid...I guess Owens was probably the easiest, laziest repaint for them since you only have to change his t shirt logo. lol But still not much of an excuse since grey repaint Undertaker isn't exactly more difficult than that. lol I was never that bothered about getting a grey Undertaker exactly because I always liked the Hasbro, but I see your point about the Mattel action - I’d have preferred that as a kid, and the purple is a good figure. I’d have expected a grey repaint of Taker would’ve sold better than a second Owens, but they’d still have had the issue about actually getting them into stores in the US so who knows. I like the Owens figure a lot, but if they were going to do a quick re-release then I agree a grey Undertaker would’ve been great to do.
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popyduggan
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Post by popyduggan on Sept 21, 2019 22:55:18 GMT -5
If they ever get back to them, I'd love a WrestleMania 12 Warrior with the Razor Ramon clothesline action, I'm surprised neither company made a clotheslining Warrior, it's 50% of his offense.
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drnickriviera995
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Post by drnickriviera995 on Sept 22, 2019 8:09:41 GMT -5
If they ever get back to them, I'd love a WrestleMania 12 Warrior with the Razor Ramon clothesline action, I'm surprised neither company made a clotheslining Warrior, it's 50% of his offense. Mania 12 Warrior would sure be sweet! And also Mania 12 era Hunter so Warrior can squash him lol.
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Post by hbkjason on Sept 22, 2019 8:30:46 GMT -5
I love the retro figures that I have, but I feel that the downfall of this line was really started with series 3. First of all for a line that is all about nostalgia they could not have gotten the line up any more wrong. Secondly, the price increase and the forced tie in to a mobile game that was aimed at kids was another massive mistake. Thridly, we have the distribution issues. Here in the UK when series three first came out I saw in twice in one store. Now, series 3 has been warming shelves in a discount store called Home Bargains for over a year! I swear two of the stores near me had to have had at least 10 of each guy at one point! So they not only made far too many of this horrible line up, they completely ed up distributing them to stores. Series 4,5 and 6 for a nostalgia based line also had very, very poor lineups as well. Toys are for kids I am not disputing that at all. However, a 8,9 or 10 year old would never pick a Retro Seth Rollins over a basic or an elite. This should have been marketed to people in their 30s and the lineups should have been characters that were in the Hasbro line and characters that Hasbro missed. How in the blue hell was there no Bret Hart in 10 series of these retro figures? How did they make 2 Randy Savage figures, but neither one was a long tights Macho King/Man that Hasbro missed out? I love having the figures I have managed to get, but this line as a whole has been a colossal failure and it 100 percent is Mattel's fault for getting the direction of the line wrong. I really hope that they can learn from this and come out swinging if the line does come back.
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Post by showbizpizzabear81 on Sept 22, 2019 9:58:24 GMT -5
Forward this to Mattel.
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RedDevil
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Post by RedDevil on Sept 22, 2019 16:24:06 GMT -5
I love the retro figures that I have, but I feel that the downfall of this line was really started with series 3. First of all for a line that is all about nostalgia they could not have gotten the line up any more wrong. Secondly, the price increase and the forced tie in to a mobile game that was aimed at kids was another massive mistake. Thridly, we have the distribution issues. Here in the UK when series three first came out I saw in twice in one store. Now, series 3 has been warming shelves in a discount store called Home Bargains for over a year! I swear two of the stores near me had to have had at least 10 of each guy at one point! So they not only made far too many of this horrible line up, they completely ed up distributing them to stores. Series 4,5 and 6 for a nostalgia based line also had very, very poor lineups as well. Toys are for kids I am not disputing that at all. However, a 8,9 or 10 year old would never pick a Retro Seth Rollins over a basic or an elite. This should have been marketed to people in their 30s and the lineups should have been characters that were in the Hasbro line and characters that Hasbro missed. How in the blue hell was there no Bret Hart in 10 series of these retro figures? How did they make 2 Randy Savage figures, but neither one was a long tights Macho King/Man that Hasbro missed out? I love having the figures I have managed to get, but this line as a whole has been a colossal failure and it 100 percent is Mattel's fault for getting the direction of the line wrong. I really hope that they can learn from this and come out swinging if the line does come back. Similar story here in regards to series 3 - my Smyths probably got them when they were released but as I was away for Xmas I couldn’t get them, by the time I got back home they were sold-out there, as well as online; I had to get them from another Smyths store later on. Only this year did I find them at a Home Bargains whilst I was waiting for my car to be MOT’d. The line overall sold well at my local Smyths - I never saw Brock or Taker there, and didn’t see Mankind or Kane there either after I bought the first delivery they received. Cena, Rock, Warrior and Austin were the last ones there, but I guess my area wasn’t reflective of the line since Smyths dropped the line after series 3; bastards I was very pleased they released the green Macho Man, especially as that seemed to indicate someone in control of the line had pretty decent knowledge of the Hasbro line - Bill or Steve would be my best guess from the exceptionally little knowledge I have about Mattel’s WWE operation. Goldust and Diesel likewise. If they can manage to get a relaunch together then I’d be hopeful whomever suggested that Macho would be involved once again. As for the app game, I accepted it as I figured that might be some kind of compromise from above to keep the line going, but it was undeniably an odd fit for the line from the start. Forward this to Mattel. I saw this on Twitter last night; brilliant pieces. I always like seeing Retros with the Elite/Basic heads - I know a lot of fans want the Retros to retain the “cartoony” heads of the Hasbros, but I always wanted them to have the best quality possible, which the Elites and even Basics have. I’d have liked them to use those designs and just resized them slightly to fit the proportions of the Retros. Rather that than the Shawn Michaels Retro head anyway.
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