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Post by cordless2016 on May 20, 2020 8:51:59 GMT -5
I don’t understand how the people in charge of the stunt didn’t do any prison time. They had an obligation for safety and they failed. I’ve read about the case over the years and while I’m 100% in Martha’s corner, it did come out over time that Martha was completely focused on making the WWE pay for this and not holding anyone else accountable. It came out during her trial with the WWE that Martha’s team came to an Agreement with the manufacturer and stunt coordinators to not sue them due to a rule in Kansas that two defendents in the same case cannot counter-sue eachother (not a lawyer so that’s just how I simplified it). This basically put it all on the WWE. However, Ellie Hart (Nattie’s moms) eventually sent Vince a letter Martha had sent to the entire Hart family in an attempt to get them on the same page and promising them a part of the settlement (basically bribery) in an attempt to get Jim a life-time gig with the WWE. The WWE used this to their advantage and a judge eventually allowed the WWE to sue the manufacturer of the clip used to hold Owen. The WWE ended up making far more in that settlement than they had paid out to Martha (as sad as it is). In the end it was basically deemed an “accident.” Negligence And faulty equipment are the reasons for the settlements, but everyone essentially got off due to it being deemed an “accident.” This was on oversimplification of what I’ve read but Martha shot herself in the foot by wanting to focus solely on the WWE and not going after the stunt crew and manufacturer. Again I am on Martha’s side but her complete hatred for the WWE made these lawsuits more sketchy than they needed to be. |
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Post by Brad on May 20, 2020 9:26:13 GMT -5
Absolutely love this show. Have to find it on Youtube though, don't have access to Vice  |
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sharpshooter
Superstar
Joined on: Sept 28, 2010 6:06:08 GMT -5
Posts: 613 
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Post by sharpshooter on May 20, 2020 10:31:35 GMT -5
I don’t understand how the people in charge of the stunt didn’t do any prison time. They had an obligation for safety and they failed. I’ve read about the case over the years and while I’m 100% in Martha’s corner, it did come out over time that Martha was completely focused on making the WWE pay for this and not holding anyone else accountable. It came out during her trial with the WWE that Martha’s team came to an Agreement with the manufacturer and stunt coordinators to not sue them due to a rule in Kansas that two defendents in the same case cannot counter-sue eachother (not a lawyer so that’s just how I simplified it). This basically put it all on the WWE. However, Ellie Hart (Nattie’s moms) eventually sent Vince a letter Martha had sent to the entire Hart family in an attempt to get them on the same page and promising them a part of the settlement (basically bribery) in an attempt to get Jim a life-time gig with the WWE. The WWE used this to their advantage and a judge eventually allowed the WWE to sue the manufacturer of the clip used to hold Owen. The WWE ended up making far more in that settlement than they had paid out to Martha (as sad as it is). In the end it was basically deemed an “accident.” Negligence And faulty equipment are the reasons for the settlements, but everyone essentially got off due to it being deemed an “accident.” This was on oversimplification of what I’ve read but Martha shot herself in the foot by wanting to focus solely on the WWE and not going after the stunt crew and manufacturer. Again I am on Martha’s side but her complete hatred for the WWE made these lawsuits more sketchy than they needed to be. Thank you for taking the time to explain that to me and in such detail. That makes a lot of sense. |
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Post by rowdy1971 on May 20, 2020 10:36:40 GMT -5
I don’t understand how the people in charge of the stunt didn’t do any prison time. They had an obligation for safety and they failed. I’ve read about the case over the years and while I’m 100% in Martha’s corner, it did come out over time that Martha was completely focused on making the WWE pay for this and not holding anyone else accountable. It came out during her trial with the WWE that Martha’s team came to an Agreement with the manufacturer and stunt coordinators to not sue them due to a rule in Kansas that two defendents in the same case cannot counter-sue eachother (not a lawyer so that’s just how I simplified it). This basically put it all on the WWE. However, Ellie Hart (Nattie’s moms) eventually sent Vince a letter Martha had sent to the entire Hart family in an attempt to get them on the same page and promising them a part of the settlement (basically bribery) in an attempt to get Jim a life-time gig with the WWE. The WWE used this to their advantage and a judge eventually allowed the WWE to sue the manufacturer of the clip used to hold Owen. The WWE ended up making far more in that settlement than they had paid out to Martha (as sad as it is). In the end it was basically deemed an “accident.” Negligence And faulty equipment are the reasons for the settlements, but everyone essentially got off due to it being deemed an “accident.” This was on oversimplification of what I’ve read but Martha shot herself in the foot by wanting to focus solely on the WWE and not going after the stunt crew and manufacturer. Again I am on Martha’s side but her complete hatred for the WWE made these lawsuits more sketchy than they needed to be. Wow, very insightful. Great job. LOL and not in a mean way! Truly, great job. lol |
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Deleted
Joined on: Nov 28, 2024 6:38:56 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2020 11:25:37 GMT -5
I thought Dr. Martha Hart came off beautiful as did their children. Smart and brave to pursue the truth and investigate further. How many wrestler spouses would have accepted the WWE's findings and moved on.
Bobby Talbert, Kevin Dunn, KCPD, and Vince came off bad. The "I resent your tone" clip is all you need to know about Vince if this season wasn't already an eye opener.
Fans need to realize the WWE HOF is not a real place. It's just an event that happens on WrestleMania Weekend. Whether or not a wrestler is inducted or not into the "Hall" doesn't define their contributions as you can see by who has gotten in and who has been left off all these years.
Baseball HOF has writers and a strict voting process. The WWE HOF is if Vince wants you in or not. One person, one human gets to decide. It's not about being honored properly or getting snubbed, it's just how Vince feels.
Some people on these boards owe apologies for their Martha hit pieces.
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Post by Brad on May 20, 2020 11:49:25 GMT -5
I’ve read about the case over the years and while I’m 100% in Martha’s corner, it did come out over time that Martha was completely focused on making the WWE pay for this and not holding anyone else accountable. It came out during her trial with the WWE that Martha’s team came to an Agreement with the manufacturer and stunt coordinators to not sue them due to a rule in Kansas that two defendents in the same case cannot counter-sue eachother (not a lawyer so that’s just how I simplified it). This basically put it all on the WWE. However, Ellie Hart (Nattie’s moms) eventually sent Vince a letter Martha had sent to the entire Hart family in an attempt to get them on the same page and promising them a part of the settlement (basically bribery) in an attempt to get Jim a life-time gig with the WWE. The WWE used this to their advantage and a judge eventually allowed the WWE to sue the manufacturer of the clip used to hold Owen. The WWE ended up making far more in that settlement than they had paid out to Martha (as sad as it is). In the end it was basically deemed an “accident.” Negligence And faulty equipment are the reasons for the settlements, but everyone essentially got off due to it being deemed an “accident.” This was on oversimplification of what I’ve read but Martha shot herself in the foot by wanting to focus solely on the WWE and not going after the stunt crew and manufacturer. Again I am on Martha’s side but her complete hatred for the WWE made these lawsuits more sketchy than they needed to be. Wow, very insightful. Great job. |
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shenmue
Main Eventer
Joined on: Oct 30, 2007 10:12:45 GMT -5
Posts: 2,730
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Post by shenmue on May 20, 2020 12:27:57 GMT -5
Jericho made a good point about all the talent that was coming to the WWF in 2000/1, if used properly and not as a comedy act he could have had a great run with the likes of Eddie, Jericho,Malenko,Saturn,Benoit,Angle,kidman,Rey,RVD,Edge and many more.
He should have been used as main event guy after the screwjob, the story writes it self but i have read a few things about this in the past and for one reason or another it just didn't happen, HBK didn't help that is for sure, but ignoring all of that i just wish the WWF had used the same team/equipment that they had used before for his stunt, or not done the stunt at all, either way he would still be here today with his family enjoying life, it's a sad story all round.
One of my first memories of watching wrestling is him winning the KOTR the ring vs Razor and his run with Bret in 94, really enjoyed him as a kid, Him vs Bret at WM10 i must have watched over 10 times since, a classic, cage match at SS another one but i prefer the WM10 match. His run in 97 also i have very fond memories of, great work and matches with the Hart foundation vs Austin and others.
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Post by cordless2016 on May 20, 2020 12:40:08 GMT -5
Jericho made a good point about all the talent that was coming to the WWF in 2000/1, if used properly and not as a comedy act he could have had a great run with the likes of Eddie, Jericho,Malenko,Saturn,Benoit,Angle,kidman,Rey,RVD,Edge and many more. He should have been used as main event guy after the screwjob, the story writes it self but i have read a few things about this in the past and for one reason or another it just didn't happen, HBK didn't help that is for sure, but ignoring all of that i just wish the WWF had used the same team/equipment that they had used before for his stunt, or not done the stunt at all, either way he would still be here today with his family enjoying life, it's a sad story all round. One of my first memories of watching wrestling is him winning the KOTR the ring vs Razor and his run with Bret in 94, really enjoyed him as a kid, Him vs Bret at WM10 i must have watched over 10 times since, a classic, cage match at SS another one but i prefer the WM10 match. His run in 97 also i have very fond memories of, great work and matches with the Hart foundation vs Austin and others. I agree totally that Owen could have been a bigger player after the screw job. Problem was that Austin had a grudge over Owen not apologizing for the neck injury, HBK for obvious reasons, and Vince likely not in any rush to push Bret’s brother. I do disagree with JR that Owen hadnt hit his peak yet. While I feel he had everything to be a main event player, I feel like he hit that magical ceiling Vince puts over everyone’s head. He would have had some great matches with all those guys you mentioned, but I don’t feel Vince would have pushed him to the main event based on past booking (he would occasionally be used in the main event but never given the ball to run with). |
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Post by The Real Valbroski on May 20, 2020 13:24:01 GMT -5
Still have to watch the Owen Hart episode but I thought the road warriors episode was great. The whole series is so well done.
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Post by Darkhawk on May 20, 2020 15:20:10 GMT -5
It's just sad knowing had WWE not given Owen Hart the crappy gimmick and let him be himself, he still would have been alive today. It was a good episode and I'm 100% on Martha's side, it's a shame the Hart family wasn't on her side and pretty much betrayed her even after it was WWE's fault Owen died.
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Post by LA Times on May 20, 2020 15:26:28 GMT -5
Jericho made a good point about all the talent that was coming to the WWF in 2000/1, if used properly and not as a comedy act he could have had a great run with the likes of Eddie, Jericho,Malenko,Saturn,Benoit,Angle,kidman,Rey,RVD,Edge and many more. He should have been used as main event guy after the screwjob, the story writes it self but i have read a few things about this in the past and for one reason or another it just didn't happen, HBK didn't help that is for sure, but ignoring all of that i just wish the WWF had used the same team/equipment that they had used before for his stunt, or not done the stunt at all, either way he would still be here today with his family enjoying life, it's a sad story all round. One of my first memories of watching wrestling is him winning the KOTR the ring vs Razor and his run with Bret in 94, really enjoyed him as a kid, Him vs Bret at WM10 i must have watched over 10 times since, a classic, cage match at SS another one but i prefer the WM10 match. His run in 97 also i have very fond memories of, great work and matches with the Hart foundation vs Austin and others. I agree totally that Owen could have been a bigger player after the screw job. Problem was that Austin had a grudge over Owen not apologizing for the neck injury, HBK for obvious reasons, and Vince likely not in any rush to push Bret’s brother. I do disagree with JR that Owen hadnt hit his peak yet. While I feel he had everything to be a main event player, I feel like he hit that magical ceiling Vince puts over everyone’s head. He would have had some great matches with all those guys you mentioned, but I don’t feel Vince would have pushed him to the main event based on past booking (he would occasionally be used in the main event but never given the ball to run with). Owen Hart looked out of place in the Attitude Era and while Chris Jericho made the point that they missed out on matches with Owen vs Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Dean Malenko, Eddy Guerrero, etc., those matches couldve taken place had Owen been given his release after Montreal and gone to WCW. |
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Post by marino13 on May 20, 2020 15:30:48 GMT -5
I thought the episode was well done. I dreaded watching it because I knew it'd stick with me awhile.
Glad to hear Martha and the kids are doing well. As I've mentioned before, I was a huge fan of Bret & Owen and even named my son Owen.
But in all honesty, I would have liked for them to have interviewed some of The Harts and maybe the KC police department. Just to get other perspectives, instead of being one sided.
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Deleted
Joined on: Nov 28, 2024 6:38:56 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2020 15:58:19 GMT -5
I thought the episode was well done. I dreaded watching it because I knew it'd stick with me awhile. Glad to hear Martha and the kids are doing well. As I've mentioned before, I was a huge fan of Bret & Owen and even named my son Owen. But in all honesty, I would have liked for them to have interviewed some of The Harts and maybe the KC police department. Just to get other perspectives, instead of being one sided. when documentors are drawing up plans they consider and may even film everyone willing to participate. If someone you feel is missing from a documentary it’s bc their footage didn’t fit the narrative or they declined participation. I can’t imagine DSOTR didn’t think to reach out. In this particular episode I’d venture that Martha had complete creative and edit control. |
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Post by Patrick Bateman (original) on May 20, 2020 16:21:07 GMT -5
Judging What Martha said, there isn't going to be any Owen figures Not under the WWE banner. Martha was also on last Fridays episode of Talk Is Jericho. In that he mentioned to her merchandise. She approved of 2 Owen shirts on pro wrestling tees. She mentioned giving the rights to his likeness in the legends of wrestling game (she called it an old Atari game). She said she has been approached by lots of other companies and she never said no. She would do research and at the end it always led to a connection with WWE. Jericho mentioned that now there are other companies completely not connected with WWE, such as NJPW that would love to do Owen merch. That fans have been very thirsty for Owen merchandise. She seemed very open to it. That is when Jericho said he will connect her with someone. |
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Post by Darkhawk on May 20, 2020 17:58:37 GMT -5
Now that I thought about the police should have shut down the event and investigated the scene.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2020 18:54:00 GMT -5
Judging What Martha said, there isn't going to be any Owen figures Not under the WWE banner. Martha was also on last Fridays episode of Talk Is Jericho. In that he mentioned to her merchandise. She approved of 2 Owen shirts on pro wrestling tees. She mentioned giving the rights to his likeness in the legends of wrestling game (she called it an old Atari game). She said she has been approached by lots of other companies and she never said no. She would do research and at the end it always led to a connection with WWE. Jericho mentioned that now there are other companies completely not connected with WWE, such as NJPW that would love to do Owen merch. That fans have been very thirsty for Owen merchandise. She seemed very open to it. That is when Jericho said he will connect her with someone. If it has nothing to do with wwe, I don’t see why not? Maybe the same reason Dino Bravo’s wife doesn’t want anyone making a figure of him? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2020 18:56:07 GMT -5
After reading the comments in this thread, I guess I’ll keep my opinion to myself.
Let’s just say I KINDA regret buying a shirt from PWTees.
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Thunder Chunky
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 1, 2010 21:57:30 GMT -5
Posts: 4,545
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Post by Thunder Chunky on May 20, 2020 19:16:56 GMT -5
After reading the comments in this thread, I guess I’ll keep my opinion to myself. Let’s just say I KINDA regret buying a shirt from PWTees. Go ahead and say what you're thinking. The classic board here is more laid back than the rest of the board. |
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Deleted
Joined on: Nov 28, 2024 6:38:56 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2020 20:37:21 GMT -5
After reading the comments in this thread, I guess I’ll keep my opinion to myself. Let’s just say I KINDA regret buying a shirt from PWTees. Go ahead and say what you're thinking. The classic board here is more laid back than the rest of the board. Appreciate it, but I’ll bite my tongue on this one. Don’t wanna risk this thread being locked/deleted. Haha |
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Post by marino13 on May 20, 2020 21:24:46 GMT -5
Go ahead and say what you're thinking. The classic board here is more laid back than the rest of the board. Appreciate it, but I’ll bite my tongue on this one. Don’t wanna risk this thread being locked/deleted. Haha Yeah, I can't say I blame ya. This is such a sensitive subject. And because of that, someone is always going to be pissed off if your opinion varies even slightly. That's exactly why I made the comment I did the other day in the regular WWE board. I even struggled with what I wrote in here. As simple as it was, it took me twenty minutes to hit "create post".
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